I apologize if this has already been asked. i looked in search, but i might have missed it.

I was just wondering if Soy is a natural food if it's made from organic soybeans? and if so, is it still Raw?
Is Tofu made from soy, and is Tofu raw?

How should I go about getting protein if i want to eat an all raw diet? I'm trying to think of how to replace chicken or tofu-chicken in my salads and I want to make sure i still get protein.

Thank you.

Soy beans if not cooked, are raw, but perhaps too hard to digest. Tofu is not raw, because is made from cooked soy beans.

You do not need anything to have enough protein in your raw diet. Raw diet is not protein deficient.

Sincerely,
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

if you go to [mercola.com] and inter SOY in the search you will find tons of infromation on THE DANGERS OF SOY AND SOY PRODUCTS.

hope this helps.

It's not raw - but if it helps you to transition to a higher percentage of fresh, raw plant food - then go for it! You've got my support!

-David Mason

Actually, I do not believe all the negative info that is being shared about soy these days. In fact, I find it quite amusing that as soon as a item becomes popular people begin to search out why it is unhealthy and they look for excuses to label a food as bad. Of course, Asians have been eating tofu and soy products for thousands of years with no ill effects so why exactly is their this big "expose'" on soy foods? Well, it's the other camp striking back and you should all recognize this. There is no, I repeat no long term studies on the ill effects of soy. While I'm raw I do not believe there is anything wrong with soy and until someone shows me a 17-20 year study like T. Colin Campbell did with the China Study, I won't believe it.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

I've been reading research on soy for the past 3 years... I'm convinced it's not good.

the following is from [mercola.com]
Soy Myth Exposed: Soy is Not a Health Food

Not too long ago, soy foods were on the fringes of Americans' grocery lists. They were thought of as "hippie" foods or even food for those in impoverished countries. So how, then, did soy foods grow from an $800 million industry in 1992 to a $4-billion one in 2003?

Because, after a heavy marketing campaign from the soy industry, Americans are largely convinced that soy is the miracle food to fight everything from cancer to heart disease to hot flashes--and a slew of other illnesses in between. Some 200 million Americans, many who may have once turned their noses up at the mere thought of soy anything, are now eating soy in record amounts and in newly created, highly processed forms: soymilk, soy burgers, soy energy bars, soy ice cream, soy cereal, soy meat--you name it, there's probably soy in it.


In The Whole Soy Story, you'll find:

The real reasons why soy is NOT a health food

Shocking personal accounts of real people whose health
and lives were put at risk from eating soy products

Hard evidence linking soy to malnutrition, digestive
problems, thyroid dysfunction, cognitive decline,
reproductive disorders, immune system breakdowns--even
heart disease and cancer

That soy has NEVER been proven safe, and learn the
truth about how misleading propaganda played a huge
role in how it became so popular in America

Get more critical advice about the dangers of soy as author Dr. Kaayla Daniel shares her insights in this exclusive interview with Dr. Mercola.


If the health claims surrounding soy sound too good to be true, it's because they are. continued here...

[www.mercola.com]

Wow! Do you have any facts to back that up?

This seems rather bogus for a start: "Americans are largely convinced that soy is the miracle food to fight everything from cancer to heart disease to hot flashes--and a slew of other illnesses in between."

I've certain never met anybody who thinks soy is a miracle food and I know a lot of soy/tofu fans. Most people I know cook with it because it's good a soaking up flavours.

Ian.

Ian,

Just because it appears on mercola.com doesn't make it so. Yes, I've been reading it for a few years as well but Asians have been eating it for thousands of years. Yes, it's an old food. New to us but old to them. It's a major food staple in asian culture. It's funny that one or two people write a few bogus facts and even put out a book or two and suddenly that same food that was soo healthy suddenly becomes unhealthy and toxic to you. How many times have we heard and seen this before? This to me is an obvious smear campaign from the enemy's camp.

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Tofu (and most other soy products) is not a raw food, but IMO, it is a good vegan food (for a COOKED food that is). Dr. Mercola seems pretty extreme to me in his opposition to vegetarianism (let alone vegan or raw food vegan), so some of his information may possibly be a bit subjectively slanted.

Tofu can be considered organic ONLY if it is labeled "organic" on the package. If not, it was most likely grown using genetically modified soy beans. My understanding is that the genetically modified soybeans have many times more hormones than the real soybeans, so WATCH OUT! If you buy tofu, stick with the organic (labeled organic).

As far as protein, as long as you eat enough raw food that you're not feeling extremely hungry, you should not have to worry about protein deficiency. Nuts and seeds supply the highest amount of protein per weight and volume. Greens provide a high quality of protein since they include a full range of amino acids with very few calories and almost no fat, but the quantity of protein per weight and volume is low.

IF you're wanting to follow the US Dept. of Agriculture's (USDA) guidelines for protein, the goal would be to get 100% daily value (DV) of the recommended daily amount (RDA, expressed in grams). At www.nutritiondata.com, you can look up almost any food to find out how much protein (or any other nutrient) the given serving of the specific food will suppy (The serving size is adjustable at the top of the page). For example:

1 cup of sunflower seeds supplies a daily value (DV) of 66% of the recommended daily amount (RDA) for protein, but also 821 calories and 110% DV of the RDA for fat. So to get 100% of the RDA for protein from sunflower seeds ALONE, you would need to eat 1 1/2 cups of sunflower seeds, which would give you 1231 calories and 165% DV fat (meaning 65% more fat than you need according to the RDA).

1 cup of romaine lettuce supplies a DV of only 1% of the RDA for protein and only 8 calories, and 0% of the RDA for fat. So to get the RDA for protein from romaine alone, you would need to eat 100 cups of romaine, which would give you 800 calories (and almost no fat).

1 cup of mashed bananas supplies a DV of 5% of the RDA for protein and 200 calories, and 1% DV of the RDA for fat. So to get the RDA for protein from bananas alone, you would need to eat 20 cups of mashed bananas, which would give you 4000 calories and 20% DV fat (meaning 20% of the RDA for fat).

Conclusion: The thing to understand is that all the vegan raw foods have protein, so you don't need to try to get all your protein from any one food. If you try to get it all from nuts or seeds, you will be eating too much fat. If you try to get it all from vegetables or fruits, you will have to eat a lot of food. But if you eat a diet that includes fruits, vegetable and nuts and seeds, you will get a better balance of just what you need.

All the above nutritional data can be found at www.nutritiondata.com. You can go to the site and search almost any food (right hand corner of home page). The charts that will give you information on nutrient CONTENT (in grams) and the percent daily value (% DV) are the charts that include the % DV column.

There is a chart at the top of the page for each food that gives the caloric ratio for the food. To get a correct reading of your caloric ratio for EVERYTHING you eat on any given day (carbs/fats/proteins) you will need to go to the "pantry" page (click "pantry" in the tool box) and enter all your foods for the day (make sure to put a number in the quantity space for each food you enter or the entry won't tally). www.fitday.com will also give you a caloric ratio, but it will not tell you if you reached the RDA for protein, and the food choices and the quantities are more limited.

The ratio is important because it will tell you if you are getting too much fat in any given day. If you are, and you are eating a raw vegan diet, then you may be eating too much nuts or seeds.

Regarding RDA, you might keep in mind that nutritionists say the RDA for each of the nutrients is established by doubling the amount of each nutrient found to be sufficient for most people. Even so, it's very easy to reach the RDA for protein on a raw vegan diet. It's a bit harder for calcium and iron.

Good luck and best wishes, Ally

Has anyone ever known anyone who was diagnosed as having protein deficiency? I can actually say that for all the talk and all the warnings that we all grew up with - I have never heard of anyone that became ill, went to their doctor for examination and then come away diagnosed as protein deficient!!!!!!! I don't even know what the symptoms would be. Maybe someone who was simply not eating enough food - total calories. Otherwise - I'm not sure it even happens.


Life Is Good!

alive!

Hi there.

Tofu and other soy products have been eaten in various ways for many many years in Japan. I am from there so I know! Tofu is not raw, shoyu ( correction; I read in most of all the raw food books in English, "nama-shoyu". Nama means raw in Japanese but doesn't mean raw and it's not acutally pronounced nama-shoyu but ki-jyoyu.) is also made of cooked soy so is not raw. Shoyu is a fermented soy product. We also eat fermented　soy product called 'Natto' and a lot of Japanese raw consider it as a living food ( not 100% raw). I live in the Netherlands and I can not obtain organic natto here so I am doing without one but I would eat if I could buy organic ones. It's just so healthy and tastes good!

No one here is saying that tofu is raw. Heck, we all should know by now that it isn't. I used to make it myself with a tofu press. Regardless of this I don't believe it is a harmful food. I see all this hype about how toxic it is and have even read reports about how deer steer clear of it. Funny, but someone told me that they can't keep the deer away from their soybean crops. The deer love it. So, that blows that theory out of the water. As for the rest, I consider it all hyperbole. No true concrete studies have been done. I don't believe it to be a superfood but I don't believe it to be this toxic beast either. It's just a vegetarian food that has freaked out the enemy camp and now there are a whole host of books popping up about the dangers of soy. Hmm, sounds like a conspiracy to me!

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Soy is not raw but it can be great while transitioning off a standard American diet - it's definitely healthier than most things; however, after you've been raw for awhile I think you'll find that soy feels too heavy.

And by the way - that anti-soy excerpt above from mercola.com sounds like propaganda. Real science doesn't sound like that - wailing fear mongering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 02:19PM by sunshine79.

ok forget Mercola.com
here's an article from nexus magazine in Australia [www.nexusmagazine.com]
refrencing studies done in Australia, New Zealand, Sweden and France.
The Hidden Dangers of Soy Allergens...

For me it's an easy choice... no soy

Peace,
Mark

Mark,

Again, how long was the research done. Is the lengthy, conclusive proof to backup the study? True proof is something like what Dr. T. Colin Campbell did on his study of health and sickness. The documented proof of his findings, which took 17 years to compile, are in a book called The China Study. Did you catch that last sentence? This study lasted for years and years. Most of the reports coming out haven't been researched long enough to prove anything conclusive. The same can be said about the lame research to prove whether yerba mate' actually has caffeine in it. South Americans say mateine and I agree with this. Mateine has a completely different genetic strain separating it from caffeine. It also has many health benefits beyond caffeine or coffee yet it's very easy for the FDA to label yerba as having caffeine. Does this make it true? Absolutely not but people believe what they read without doing their own extensive research.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Also - I think the reason soy is getting all this close scrutiny is because it's new to the West. But you don't see beef or chicken being held to this same rigorous scientific testing - ppl just ASSUME they're fine, because it's what we're used to.

Dr. Gabriel Cousens, who is an MD and went to Columbia Med School, did a thorough analysis of all of our common foods as well as soy in his book "Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine". Basically what he found is that meats are the most toxic. Soy has toxins as well, but is nowhere near as harmful as meat.

So I think that before ppl start freaking about soy, we should look at side-by-side comparisons of soy to other protein foods - therein lies the truth.

I personally don't eat soy anymore but I think that what ppl posted above, that it's prob the meat industry that's screaming about the harmful effects of soy - is prob true. Anti-soy propaganda by the meat industry - who would be surprised?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 05:31PM by sunshine79.

It's probably true that protein deficiency does happen where people are starving, like in Somalia or Darfur, and maybe in cases of severe illness whenever people are unable to eat for long periods of time.

But it seems also true that where there is food, there is protein. The whole idea of protein deficiency seems to have been made into an issue by the meat and dairy industry, and incorporated by their lobbyists into the food chart pyramids that my generation all grew up with.

Researchers have by now been able to verify fairly conclusively that TOO MUCH PROTEIN, especially from meat and dairy (with the exception of whey), causes CALCIUM DEPLETION. I just read that researchers at University of California in San Francisco looked at 85 different studies and evaluated the typical diets in 33 countries and found that the 2 countries that typically included the most animal protein in their diets - Germany and Sweden - had 40 times more hip fractures than Thailand, a country where mostly rice dishes, vegetables and fruits were consumed.

Vegetable sources of protein have been found to not have the same effect of calcium depletion because they are less acid - producing.

Also, researchers at University of Wisconsin found that calcium supplements were useless.

It doesn't seem too far-fetched to me to believe that the same meat and dairy industry are feeling threatened by the introduction of tofu. I don't eat it because I'm raw, but my husband (vegan for 20 years) eats it regularly and does circles around guys half his age on the basketball court - in addition to working construction, working on the farm, and scuba diving.

Most of the soy now grown in the US is genetically modified, and most of that goes for animal feed. But as long as your tofu is organic, it can not come from genetically modified soy. The more people buy organic soy, the more profit for the organic soy farmer, and the more incentive other soy farmers may have to switch to organic, instead of growing genetically modified soy for animal feed.

Best wishes, Ally



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2006 01:52AM by Ally.

That nexus article is just about people who are allergic to soy. People are allergic to all kinds of things. Doesn't mean it is bad for people who are not allergic to it.

"Soy is one of the top allergens—substances that cause allergic reactions. In the 1980s, Stuart Berger, MD, labelled soy one of the seven top allergens—one of the "sinister seven". At the time, most experts listed soy around tenth or eleventh—bad enough, but way behind peanuts, tree nuts, milk, eggs, shellfish, fin fish and wheat."

It is a very common allergy for many people. But so is diary, and so are nuts, strawberries, tomatoes etc. That is why anything with diary, nuts or soy or possible trace amounts has to be labeled and warned on food products. That's not stopping anyone from saying that nuts are healthy for most people though. It doesn't stop raw foodists from eating so many nuts, unless they are allergic themselves personally.

As far as Mercola, he eats soy himself, enough said. He's admitted to eating as well as recommending as healthy to eating soy sauce, miso, natto and tempeh. Even though fermented soy products have even higher amounts of phyto-estrogens etc.
So, why would he warn against the dire threats of other kinds of soy foods and not those? Maybe it's because those forms of soy foods are not used as meat replacements and meat alternatives? I don't know, but it's a direct contradiction. I also have a background in marketing and that spiel is a total sales pitch, he is selling something and hyping it up just like any direct marketer.

Here is a quote from him:

"I want to reemphasize here that I am in no way opposed to soy consumption, only improper soy consumption.
I firmly believe that fermented soy, which includes natto, miso, tempeh and soybean sprouts, is a health food for most and should be consumed by the masses. However, soy formula is an abomination that has caused much damage to the children of this country and should be immediately banned for sale in every country." - Dr. Mercola

I do agree that highly processed soy and refined isolated soy are bad news just like refined grains, refined sugar, trans fats etc. He seems to confuse the issue though.

To me it is just another bean. No better or worse then peas, black beans, lentils, garbanzo's etc. The people who hype it up or hype it down on both sides are full of it.

It can be eaten raw though. Just like lentils and garbanzo's etc. Just sprout the raw beans the same way and eat them sprouted. I haven't tried it but I know other raw foodists do eat it that way.

Just remember that they did the same kind of campaigns against tropical oils. Against coconut oil and palm oil etc. The people who wanted to promote their vegetable oils. And again they skewed and slanted the studies and claims because they used refined hydrogenated tropical oils and there is a big difference between those and virgin pure unprocessed or min. processed tropical oils. Same thing, people thrived off of the tropical oils in their native diets with a long history of them, yet they were able to convince Americans that they are so unhealthy in general and cause so many health problems because they lumped the refined hydrogenated oils in with the unprocessed kind. With just the term tropical in general. I have a hard time meeting anyone who doesn't think and ask if coconuts will raise their cholesterol or cause them health problems because it is an "unhealthy" fat.

Wow what a response! Thank you everyone, this was very informative.
I am transitioning into Raw (i was raw for a few months a year ago, I dont know why i ever stopped). I think once I am more familiar with the millions of kinds of fresh veggies and fruits I'll be more comfortable with only eating soy every once in a while. I JUST gave up meat so I need my tofu chicken patties right now. LOL

Thank you again for all the information.

the argument that Asians have been eating soy forever
why should that support the opinion that soy is "okay"?
so.... americans have been eating big macs, filet o fish, quarter pounders and french fries...forever ( or so it seems)
does that mean that it is okay?

ancient people ate meat
did that make it okay?
or were they the ones that initiated all these wars
that are still going on?

why do people look to past history
to see what is a healthful diet?

was history a healthful thing?
there have always been wars

maybe if we do everything DIFFERENT from what has been done in the past
esp. in regards to diet
we won't be programming our destroying our
DNA in harmful ways

i don't look to past ancestors to see why i shoudl or should not engage in some actions

they did not leave a legacy of peace
or health

la_veronique,

I only have one request to make of you. Get "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. All will be explained.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the argument that Asians have been eating soy
> forever
> why should that support the opinion that soy is
> "okay"?

The argument is not that it automatically makes it ok, but that the claims against it of what it causes are not supported of being "bad". Like it is claimed that eating soy causes infertility, some even claim that it is the #1 cause of infertility in America. Yet if you look at these cultures with a long history of it you can see that they are not suffering from the same problems that are being blamed on that food. There is not an epidemic of infertility in China like there is in America etc.


> maybe if we do everything DIFFERENT from what has
> been done in the past
> esp. in regards to diet
> we won't be programming our destroying our
> DNA in harmful ways

Everything different? There is nothing that you can eat today that was not eaten in the past. So by saying to do everything DIFFERENT in terms of diet from our ancestors the only suggestion could be to not eat anything? Just because the food we eat has been eaten by our ancestors, that makes it unhealthy automatically and makes it destroying our DNA? I think people were healthier in the past and are progressively getting unhealthier. Are you saying that all the foods eaten in the past destroyed people's DNA?

> i don't look to past ancestors to see why i shoudl
> or should not engage in some actions

We learn from the past. I am happy there are records of what foods and plants are poisonous and have killed people for instance or cause the same problems in large groups of people like cultures who eat casava, so I can avoid those things.

So you don't look at the effects of what drinking out of lead cups did to our ancestors? Or what eating certain poisonous mushrooms did to them? You'd rather relearn everything on your own and see what that poisonous mushroom will do to you? Everything we know about food and plants has come from the history of studying them and the experiences with them from our ancestors.

I'm new to raw foods, but I work in a "health food" store (a great place called New Seasons in Portland) and I've started eating alot more tofu lately... until I noticed that it was making my skin break out and I started having periods again (after four years of menopause), because of the hormone effect.

I think the problem is not tofu, but too much tofu. Just like anything else, some is good but too much is bad. Everything (well, not EVERYTHING) in moderation.

most soy beans are GE, and all beans are toxic raw. Soybeans particularly have a high level of toxin called phytic acid or phytates, that block the body's uptake of minerals like calcium, magnesium, iron and especially zinc.. also enzyme inhibitors, hemagglutinin a clotting agent

"Although the act of fermenting soybeans does deactivate both trypsin inhibitors and hemagglutinin,precipitation and cooking do not. Even though these enzyme inhibitors are reduced in levels within precipitated soy products like tofu, they are not altogether eliminated."

"The primary claims about soy's health benefits are based purely on bad science."

Hat Tip: <A HREF="[www.highvibe.com];
by Brandon Finucan & Charlotte Gerson

Soy is not a raw food because it is indigestible unless it is cooked. On a cooked diet, there is no need to eat that much protein anyway. Anything over 10% is going to acidify your body, as the byproduct of protein metabolism is uric acid. Eating excessive protein contributes to kidney problems and osteoporosis.

Looking at the nutrition databases, boiled soybeans are 30% protein, 38% fat. Tofu is 44% protein, 39% fat. Too much fat, too much protein to be healthy.

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ancient people ate meat
> did that make it okay?
> or were they the ones that initiated all these
> wars
> that are still going on?
>
> why do people look to past history
> to see what is a healthful diet?
>
> was history a healthful thing?
> there have always been wars
>
> maybe if we do everything DIFFERENT from what has
> been done in the past
> esp. in regards to diet
> we won't be programming our destroying our
> DNA in harmful ways
>
> i don't look to past ancestors to see why i shoudl
> or should not engage in some actions
>
> they did not leave a legacy of peace
> or health

I agree, I agree, I agree! You are brilliant, and have a beautiful essence, Veronique.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2006 11:50PM by dream earth.

Sorry to dig this post up again, but I have to comment on soy prodcuts. I was eating a lot of tofu and soy products. Then I started to switch to a raw diet, and read about the dangers of too much soy. Well, I quit eating ALL soy products. I felt absolutely horrible for 3 weeks after I quit. I felt so bad that I went to the doctor. They tested my blood and found that my hormones levels were completely screwed up. My midwife said that she has seen MANY women come into her office, all with the same side effects, and turns out they were all eating soy products. Many of these women have to be on thyroid medicine now for the rest of their lives because the soy prodcuts messed up their thyroid. My midwife thought I had a thyroid disorder, but luckily, everything returned to normal after about 3 weeks. I feel so much better than I ever have now that I am not eating soy. So yes, I was eating a lot of it, and I am sure that had a lot to do with it, but soy is used as a filler in EVERYTHING! It's awful.

For those of you interested, check out this article:

[www.thedoctorwithin.com]

I will never eat soy prodcuts again.

soy would better serve as biofuel, biodegratable paper products, inks, even plastic!

That's what i was saying. It screwed up my hormones in just a few weeks, and I wasn't eating THAT much of it.

In the raw recipe book Raw Trust by Jeremy Saffron he has recipes for Raw Tofu with soy. Apparently until recently tofu was raw... cooking it is a recent addition to the process. There are other aspects of the process that render it more edible than just the beans.

Never tried and and never will... not a big fan of soy or tofu... but others may be interested.

I did once own in my pre raw days a soy milk maker, and it was very easy to make soy milk, then tofu from that.

Cheers,
Sheryl