Hi,

What would the best diet be for someone who has cancer ?

I think lots of fresh vegtable juices, making sure you have enough calories and protein e.t.c.

Does anyone know what juices you would need for this ?

Any stories of people winning the war over cancer from raw foods ?

Thanks,
Paul

[video.google.ca]

Paul,

This lady's testimony & personal battle was what really spoke to me years ago to get me won over on the raw food/juicing lifestyle. I have all her videos & they are an excellent resource. I highly recommend you read through all the information on her site.

[www.drday.com]

Paulie,

Maintaining protein intake isn't paramount; the more protein, the greater the risk of cancer and persistence of existing cancer. So it should not be the main concern. High greens, lower sugar(at least initially) and sufficient calories seem otherwise a good regimen for a cancer patient.

Lots of people heal themselves of cancer at Hippocrates and by using the Gerson Therapy.

Good luck.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of people heal themselves of cancer at
> Hippocrates and by using the Gerson Therapy.
I would favor Hippocrates over Gerson. I just listened
to Charlotte Gerson speak for over 2 hours on the Gerson Therapy
(Sapphire provided the link). It would behoove everyone to listen
to her [and her Father's (Max Gerson)] ideas, and arrive at your own conclusions.
When I first saw her on the video, I guessed she must be in her late
80's or early 90's. After listening for a while, she revealed she was
soon to be 70. There's too much Cooked Food in the Gerson plan....other things too....
Coffee Enemas for one. No Wheatgrass for another. Etc., etc....WY

>>>There's too much Cooked Food in the Gerson plan....other things too....
Coffee Enemas for one. No Wheatgrass for another. Etc., etc....WY<<<

Agreed. While they do have a track record of many healed folks, I also picked up on that many years ago when listening to an audio series featuring Charlotte Gerson.

At one point they even talked about juicing Liver in a press (yes, liver!) and consuming the juice!

Even though I was a cooked food eater at that time, that was just too much for me.

I have a poster on my kitchen wall from the American Cancer Society titled "Cancer Reduce Your Risk". The poster is a collection of pictures of 30 fresh raw fruits and vegetables. In spite of the fact that Doctors don't receive much training in nutrition I think this poster is an acknowledgment of a basic health principal about what a person eats and their health. I think all to often some Doctors don't give food enough attention in prevention and care of cancer. I recently saw a movie titled "Farrah's Story" [www.imdb.com] and as I watched the move I kept looking for her doctors to change her diet to a live foods diet but I saw no mention of any dietary change. Instead I saw pictures of her continuing to eat foods which I consider harmful to cancer prevention and treatment. All this to say I think it would be prudent for a cancer patient to consider doing some of their own research into the cause --> effect relationship between foods and cancer and to eat appropriately.

juicerkatz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. While they do have a track record of many
> healed folks, I also picked up on that many years
> ago when listening to an audio series featuring
> Charlotte Gerson.
Yes, you can't argue with success, but there are much
better ways to heal Cancer. If I understand it right, the Gerson
Therapy allows 8 ounces of fresh Raw Juice every waking hour, plus 3
meals of cooked food. That's too much nourishment. I bet it keeps
their patients happy. I understand some patients at Hippocrates
Health Institute in West Palm Beach, FL sneak out at night for Pizza.
Their program is more restrictive.....WY

Wheatgrass yogi,
Check out William Shatner on Hippocrates Health Institute, and the uptight looking dude in cube 3,(that can't be the director?) I just find that hilarious! I guess he won't eat that spinach!
[www.hippocratesinst.org]

It looks really, really expensive and exclusive. You would think that after spending all that for their programs, they wouldn't sneak out for pizza. Well, even with that I hope they benefited.

paulieGB,
Wow, I just was reading about recommendations to prevent cancer this morning. It was from a rather outdated, and rather conventional nutritional book, but I think much of it is still true.

Eating plenty of fruits and veggies, whole foods, restrict meat, high fat, refined foods. In particular this book suggested eating:red grapes, grapefruit, esp pink grapefruit, watermelon, tomatoes, cruciferous vegetables, and that is all I remember at the moment, but I think they suggested a few more items.

Check out "Healing Cancer from Inside Out" a DVD by Mike Anderson. This DVD shows how diet is a critical factor in getting cancer and how a raw diet is a factor in healing from cancer.

Also, there is a raw food oncologist named Dr Thomas Lodi, who has some videos on YouTube that talks about his approach to healing cancer with raw foods and some lower impact therapies.

Bryan's suggestion is very good; I've watched that DVD a few times and I always glean something useful from it.

Wow, some really great comments here, and interesting information. Wheatgrass, you always have so many great comments and ideas, and I agree with you to a certain degree about the cooked food. I can’t say that I have ever tried coffee enemas, so I can’t agree or disagree, but the logic seems to be very sound when Ms. Gerson explains it, and while I don’t know that they would be all that important for most healthy people, perhaps this would be a very appropriate drastic measure in times of extreme health crisis.

But! As far as the cooked food on Gerson is concerned, she explains that in a subsequent tape (there are several in all). Firstly, you have to realize that her clientele are generally not terribly familiar with the whole raw food lifestyle, and drinking the juices of 17 or more pounds of vegetables every day all by itself is going to be an enormous adjustment for these SAD eaters. She does explain that cooking the food enhances the satiety factor, which would still be quite important for her patients. Other than the making the food more satisfying to the eater by cooking it, I don’t think there is really any other reason, and she seems to indicate in one of her subsequent tapes that raw food would be just fine if you can handle it after consuming all that juice. I bet she has never had a single patient that came from a raw food lifestyle to begin with, so I doubt that it has ever been a huge issue for her. Also, as far as your comment about “over-nourishment” (love that word, bet not many people suffer from that problem, ha ha!!) – you are probably right for most people, but that level is probably perfect for people who are overcoming illness.

Juicerkatz, the liver thing was discontinued years ago, and the program seems to work just fine without it. I don’t know why it was thought to be important at the time, but it doesn't seem to be essential for success.

I found a lot of her comments in subsequent videos to be very interesting and informative. For instance, she thinks juicing celery is not good, because it concentrates the sodium too much – although it is fine to eat it. Same with spinach, it concentrates the oxalic levels too much, although it is fine to eat. Avocadoes are out, they have tried every source of fat imaginable and the only one that cancer patients can handle is flaxseed oil. There are a lot of things like that which I wouldn’t have thought of, and they all seem to be very well thought out. (not to say that these foods would be harmful to anyone else I don’t think). And her third video talks about people who have had chemotherapy specifically and the challenges that poses – a very important consideration. (I remember when I had my 12th and final chemo treatment – afterwards, the nurse commented to me that I had now received the maximum lifetime dosage of one of the drugs – I had three – and that if my cancer ever came back, they would have to find me a different drug, because any more of that one would probably be fatal to me. It really makes me mad to think that to this day, I am carrying that around in my body)

I would love to know as much about the Hippocrates program – does anyone have any links? What are the differences exactly? I would also really love to watch the video Bryan recommends – is this available to watch on-line? Does anyone know the link to that?

Lastly, I think that while a well planned raw diet is optimal, I have seen some pretty questionable raw recipes as well – in fact I recently saw a soup recipe that called for an entire cup of olive oil – personally, I think the baked potato might be a better choice – yikes!!

paulieGB – I hope this thread has given you some good ideas – has the person with cancer expressed any interest in dietary changes? Are they currently in treatment? So sorry to hear that someone close to you is going through this if that is the case.

I once asked Charlotte Gerson at a lecture why the Gerson diet isn't all raw, and she said it was because the patients get too thin on all raw.

Personally, I think it may also have to do with slowing down the detoxification. Max Gerson insisted on round-the-clock coffee enemas for cancer patients because he found that without the enemas, detoxification could actually overload the eliminative capabilities of the body.

In that sense, some cooked food left in the diet may actually help to slow down the powerful detox process. Just as fasting is often not recommended in cases of cancer, perhaps a nearly all-raw diet creates less "detox shock" in cancer patients than an all-raw diet would.

Also, we know that cancer cells require an anaerobic environment to grow. WY, what do you think would bring more oxygen into the body – 104 ounces of fresh vegetable and fruit juice per day or, say, 8 ounces of fresh wheatgrass juice per day?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2010 08:16PM by Omega.

[tech.groups.yahoo.com]
My 65 page file on Alt. Cancer Cures is in the file section of this alchemy group...or you can email me direct to ask for it.

I just wrote this to a relative this morning:

New Zealand is prone to cancer because of our high meat protein and dairy diet, high cooked food, high cooked carbs (bread). Plus there is smoking and drinking. Chemical agriculture and people generally don’t filter their drinking water and so are exposed to fluoride and chlorine which eat away at the immune system and are directly carcinogenic. The U.S. Council of Environmental Quality recently released a report stating that the risk of cancer is 93% higher among those drinking chlorinated water than among those not drinking chlorinated water! I filter my water with a cheap filter, and then bubble it with an aquarium aerator. I also try to drink snow water when I can because it is far more electrically alive than city water. Our grandparents didn’t get cancer, but we of the TV generations and now of the computer generations have to take extra care to live a re-generating lifestyle. The solution entails organic gardening, eating more of an Asian style, rawfood and vegan lifestyle will help enormously. A campaign of “Raw, Remineralization and Detoxification” needs to be adopted by New Zealanders to prevent the colossal problems of degeneracy that say America is increasingly going through. Aoteoroa has everything going for it, we just have to make a few changes to care for ourselves better, to become all we can be.

Since my father died of cancer I have been collecting alternative cancer cure information. I have attached my file in case you want to look it over…Prevention is the Cure!

Check out the Dries Cancer Diet.
[www.fruitarian.com]

tropical,

IMO, the Dries Diet, though it has fascinating concepts applicable to a healthy person, is not ideal for someone with cancer. Cancer cells are far more efficient at capturing sugar for fuel than are healthy cells, so increasing the bioavailable ratio of glucose(from metabolized fructose), especially where fat is also consumed, is not what I'd do in a cancerous state. I would love to believe that the closer a food is to the sun the more naturally healing it is, and I certainly think high fruit is best once one has rid oneself of active cancer. All the vitamins and anti-oxidants, you know : )

It is curious and alarming what janabanana writes about diet and lifestyle in New Zed; I had this fantasy that they favor preservation of the land and lower impact lifestyles, and have a generally less polluting way of doing things . . .

Thanks for all the replys

My mum who has cancer yesterday started drinking just vegtable juice all day, after i said this would be the best thing to alkalize the body.

Last night she was complaining about a head ache and pain from the cancer also,
and she said she didn't feel to great either and very cold.

Today this afternoon when i came home from work, she was in bed and had a bad head , pain from the cancer, no energy , very very cold, and just felt really bad.

The last two days she has been juicing lots of carrots some yams, celery, some cucumber also.
Mostly carrot juice.

Today after thinking about this i thought she isn't getting enough glucose / fructose in her blood this is why she has a head ache and no energy.

So i gave her some watermelon juice, she had half a watermelon in the end and she feels better, the head ache is gone also she doesn't feel to cold and she got up out of bed and has some energy now.

This is only the second day of juicing.

I also have to say that the carrots were not organic,
Also she is used to drinking coffee with sugar and small amounts of cooked junk food, with sugary sauces.

Obviously im worried that she is feeling worse now she is juicing than when she was eating and drinking junk.


I personally think that carrots are not going down to well with her for what ever reason,
I think that she should be drinking green juices = celery , cucumber, and wheatgrass juice.
And also i think she needs her fruit juices for the glucose and fructose - for her energy and well being.

I am ordering some wheatgrass powder soon, and im hoping to see improvments while taking this.


I am a little worried about the fruit juices as a lot of people say sugar feeds the cancer,
Not sure if that is the case with fruit or fruit juices ?

I have read a lot of stories about people curing cancer with a raw vegan diet, fruits and vegtables,
So im not to sure what to think about Not eating the fruit if one has cancer.

I think the main goal or only goal is to alkalize the body and eat or drink just whole fresh raw foods.



Any imput or advice opinions e.t.c. is very welcome.

Thank you,
Paul

Hey Paulie Im in the same boat as you right now. Im quitting my job next week to move back in with my parents for awhile to take care of them both . My dad has lung cancer and i dont have any answers for you but just keep trying .. im getting alot of green juice into my dad as i possibly can. Hes very stubborn so its a real uphill battle

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Paulie,

The way around the cancer-feeding affect of high-fruit while still giving mum juices is to combine greens and fruit--this combo is still alkalizing, but the greens slow down the metabolization of the fructose while encouraging platelet oxygenation with all that chlorophyll.

Please remember that if your mother is used to low nutrient food and has cancer cells producing all kinds of toxic enzymes as they multiply, she is bound to feel queasy after eating raw fruits and veggies. Her metabolism is already in disorder--hence the cancer--and it will take some time for it to adjust and for the cancer to recede. Cancer doesn't go quietly, so some discomfort when the internal environment is becoming toxic to the cancer cells is normal.

Keep us posted and my best wishes to both of you.

If it were a member of my family in this situation, I would recommend colonics to aid with the detoxification. Otherwise, the healing crisis brought on by the raw food and juices may be quite severe.

Good luck jgunn,
My mum is also very stubborn, but she is really trying now so im happy.
Whats in the green juices your dad is having ?

Tamukha the coment about adding greens to the fruit juices, that sounds a good idea,
But are you saying the fruit juice isn't alkalizing ?
I have read that fruit juice is alkalizing.
I know greens are very alkalizing.

Im not sure how my mum would cope with just green juices, as far as her energy levels and feeling good.
The calories would be very low also if that was the case.

Probably what you said, greens with the fruit juices and green juices also would be a good idea.

I hope it is just the healing from the juices that is causeing the pain,
I think i know that is the case and nothin else, although im not happy about her juicing carrots now, i don't think they are good for her at the moment.

Thanks for the replys,
Paul

Possibly a diet adjustment might help. Continue juicing veggies and greens and eat the fruit "as is" in its whole form. This will slow down the absorption of the fruit and at the same time will increase the amount of fiber in her diet which will help eliminate toxins. Good luck.

I think that getting a good headache is a classic symptom of detoxification, especially from caffeine (ie, coffee), and will be gone in a few days. Maybe it is a really great sign that things are going well!

There are two core juice combinations on the Gerson therapy. Whether you decide to follow the guidelines is up to you, but I think carrot juice would be very beneficial and it is very important to combine it with apple (1:1 ratio). Here is the information I found, maybe it can help.

CARROT/APPLE JUICE

This juice is one of the two "core" juices (excuse the pun!) used on the Gerson Therapy. It has a pleasant flavor, is easy on the digestive system, and is usually consumed in larger quantities than any other juice (five glasses per day in the normal regimen).

Exactly why Dr. Gerson chose this particular combination is not known. Research has revealed an apparently synergistic relationship between the carrots and apples that provides greater nutrient absorption when the apples and carrots are juiced together than when the juice of either is used alone. It is not known exactly what factors contribute to this. We do know that malic acid present in apples assists in absorption of beta-carotene in the carrots.

There are, of course, many other elements derived from the juices in addition to beta-carotene. This juice is high in calcium, provides protein trace minerals and numerous other minerals, vitamins, and phytochemicals. This juice requires approximately 8-12 oz each of carrots and (preferably tart) apples such as Granny Smith, Macintosh, Ida Red, Pippin, and Gala.

The carrot/apple juice, like all of the other juices, should be consumed immediately after pressing, but may be kept for 2-3 hours in a glass lined thermos if the patient has returned to work or must go out of the house for any other reason. The preparation of juices in advance should be done only when there is no other alternative or, on consultation with an experienced Gerson physician.

GREEN JUICE

This is the other "core" juice of the Gerson protocol. The green leaf juice is extremely rich in iron and other minerals, and very high in chlorophyll. It is a substance similar to human hemoglobin, and is the richest source of oxidizing enzymes in the Gerson protocol. It is extremely live and active, often having a foam "head" at the top of the glass when fresh out of the press. This juice is a little more difficult to tolerate, and patients feeling nauseated will frequently have some difficulty drinking and keeping it down. However, it provides tremendous benefit to the patient, and it is often prescribed in higher quantity in anemic patients in order to raise hemoglobin levels. It also replaces some of the carrot/apple juices in diabetic, hypoglycemic and candida patients as it is lower in sugar.

The "recipe" for the green leaf juice is a bit more varied than the others. Of the following list, some items will be available, some may not be available in your area, and some are seasonal. Use whatever is available, but let your choices be dictated more by what is actually available than your like or dislike of a particular ingredient. It is noteworthy that the darker, stronger-flavored items such as chard and red cabbage are richer in chlorophyll and other nutrients than the lighter, less flavorful vegetables. Also, please do not use any greens or ingredients other than the ones listed. Do not substitute other items. Obtain as many of the following as possible. The suggested quantities assume about half of the listed items will be available at any given time. Adjust accordingly. Back to top

Escarole 1-2 leaves
Lettuce 3-4 leaves (use iceberg if no others are available)
Swiss (Green) Chard 1-3 leaves, depending on size
Red Chard same as above
Endive 1-2 leaves
Red Leaf Lettuce 3-4 leaves
Green Leaf Lettuce 3-4 leaves
Red Cabbage 2-3 leaves
Romaine 2-3 leaves
Beet Tops (young inner leaves) 2-3 leaves
Green Pepper 1/2 medium sized
Watercress 1-2 sprigs
One medium apple (see above for types of apples to use).

[chipsa.com]

Sapphire

paulie my dads greens juice hav been mostly kale, spinach, celery, beet tops, with added apple or carrot to sweeten it. Once i get there for a few weeks im gonna expand his repetoire some.

one thing i find really helps is to put his juice in a non clear container , that way all he can do is sense by taste and not by sight .. if he sees the green / brownie juice and smoothies he turns his nose right up at them

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Read "The pH Miracle" by Dr. Young. The key to overcoming cancer is alkalizing the blood. Another great book is "The Cure for All Diseases" by Hulda Clark. Cesium Chloride or Paw paw have been known to cure cancer due to alkalizing the body, too. Best wishes for your mom's health. Therese

Paulie,

Fruit is alkalizing, yes, but it also contains fast-metabolized sugar. You cannot starve cancer cells of glucose without starving healthy cells also, so you can't realistically eliminate all fruit. But you can "piggyback" the glucose in its original form--fructose--on the fiber and minerals of greens. I would not advise giving your mother, in a cancerous state, large servings of fruit without a high chlorophyll mineral buffer. It might not result in anything bad if you neglect to do this, but on the other hand, there must be a good reason why the cancer protocols at Hippocrates and other places limit sweet fruit in the early stages in favor of greens and sprouts. I assume it's because greens and sprouts have the lowest sugar content and the most potent cancer fighting nutrients(especially cruciferi, as in the Gerson juice cocktail Sapphire posted above). You want to really provoke constant cancer cell die-off initially, and high greens seems to be the most efficient way to do this. An added benefit of this is that the chlorophyll helps to neutralize the ill effects of cancer cell die-off: the releasing of toxins into the bloodstream on a large scale. There's nothing wrong with adding citrus juice and tart berries to the green drinks, IMO.

Hi Janabanana i just tryed to send you a PM and your emails are FULL.

I would love for you to send me your file for cancer cures
Im obviousley very interested.

Thanks life101, this is also what i beleive.

Thanks for your post Tamukha =
BUT now
I am caught in the middle of an all raw vegan diet including fruits in the juices,
OR,
just giving my mum green juices and limiting the sugar content,
I hope this would still include apple in the green juices.


Thank you,
Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2010 04:28PM by paulieGB.

Paulie,

Apples and nonsweet fruits are OK. What I am cautioning against is just large amounts of fruit by itself, like with 80/10/10. That's great if you don't have a sugar-dependent disorder like cancer. But with an active cancer, large amounts of sugary fruits could easily fuel cancer cells and shouldn't be done, IMO.

I have gotten my mum to drink just juices for 4 days now and she has been doing well until yesterday when she had to go to the hospital and later that day she was feeling bad, hot and cold and a head ache e.t.c.

I think it was to do with the stress and she probably burned of a lot of calories yesterday and i know she only had 4 green juices yesterday with 1 apple in each, (i had to work yesterday so i couldn't keep an eye on her).

I don't think she had enough to keep her going and maybe not enough glucose in her blood.

Today i want here to have 2 carrot juices and have 2 apples with each green juice and hopefully have some tomato's with the carrot juices also, and see how she gets on.


Take care,
Paul



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 12:55AM by paulieGB.