The more you hear about these ventilators, the more it seems they're doing more harm than good. In other words, 75% of people who go on ventilators end up dead. There is more skepticism about the use of ventilators in the last few days. Like here -

With ventilators running out, doctors say the machines are overused for Covid-19

[www.statnews.com]

Even as hospitals and governors raise the alarm about a shortage of ventilators, some critical care physicians are questioning the widespread use of the breathing machines for Covid-19 patients, saying that large numbers of patients could instead be treated with less intensive respiratory support.

If the iconoclasts are right, putting coronavirus patients on ventilators could be of little benefit to many and even harmful to some.

In particular, more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness.

To be sure, many physicians are starting simple. “Most hospitals, including ours, are using simpler, noninvasive strategies first,” including the apnea devices and even nasal cannulas, said Greg Martin, a critical care physician at Emory University School of Medicine and president-elect of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. (Nasal cannulas are tubes whose two prongs, held beneath the nostrils by elastic, deliver air to the nose.) “It doesn’t require sedation and the patient [remains conscious and] can participate in his care.

Researchers and clinicians on the front lines are trying. In a small study last week in Annals of Intensive Care, physicians who treated Covid-19 patients at two hospitals in China found that the majority of patients needed no more than a nasal cannula. Among the 41% who needed more intense breathing support, none was put on a ventilator right away. Instead, they were given noninvasive devices such as BiPAP; their blood oxygen levels “significantly improved” after an hour or two. (Eventually two of seven needed to be intubated.) The researchers concluded that the more comfortable nasal cannula is just as good as BiPAP and that a middle ground is as safe for Covid-19 patients as quicker use of a ventilator.

“Anecdotal experience from Italy [also suggests] that they were able to support a number of folks using these [non-invasive] methods,” Japa said.

As doctors learn more about the disease, however, both frontline experience and a few small studies are leading him and others to question how, and how often, mechanical ventilators are used for Covid-19.

The first batch of evidence relates to how often the machines fail to help. “Contrary to the impression that if extremely ill patients with Covid-19 are treated with ventilators they will live and if they are not, they will die, the reality is far different,” said geriatric and palliative care physician Muriel Gillick of Harvard Medical School.

Researchers in Wuhan, for instance, reported that, of 37 critically ill Covid-19 patients who were put on mechanical ventilators, 30 died within a month. In a U.S. study of patients in Seattle, only one of the seven patients older than 70 who were put on a ventilator survived; just 36% of those younger than 70 did. And in a study published by JAMA on Monday, physicians in Italy reported that nearly 90% of 1,300 critically ill patients with Covid-19 were intubated and put on a ventilator; only 11% received noninvasive ventilation. One-quarter died in the ICU; 58% were still in the ICU, and 16% had been discharged.

Older patients who do survive risk permanent cognitive and respiratory damage from being on heavy sedation for many days if not weeks and from the intubation, Gillick said.

To be sure, the mere need for ventilators in Covid-19 patients suggests many in the studies were so critically ill their chances of survival were poor no matter what care they received.

But one of the most severe consequences of Covid-19 suggests another reason the ventilators aren’t more beneficial. In acute respiratory distress syndrome, which results from immune cells ravaging the lungs and kills many Covid-19 patients, the air sacs of the lungs become filled with a gummy yellow fluid. “That limits oxygen transfer from the lungs to the blood even when a machine pumps in oxygen,” Gillick said.

As patients go downhill, protocols developed for other respiratory conditions call for increasing the force with which a ventilator delivers oxygen, the amount of oxygen, or the rate of delivery, she explained. But if oxygen can’t cross into the blood from the lungs in the first place, those measures, especially greater force, may prove harmful. High levels of oxygen impair the lung’s air sacs, while high pressure to force in more oxygen damages the lungs.

and then people will say yeah but not everybody goes on the ventilators and what they will forget is ...

there are other treatments as soon as you get into a hospital such as drugs and many other interventions to create the fake pandemic

Another thing about coronavirus patients being put on ventilators - Money.

Dr. Scott Jensen said Medicare pays hospitals $13,000 per COVID patient - $39,000 if on ventilator.

ALERT! Hospitals Get Paid $13K to List Patients as COVID-19 and $39K to Put Them on a Ventilator!!

[www.youtube.com]

Also, on the video is Dr. Fauci lying and saying that Conservatives saying that 'hospitals coding deaths as COVID-19 when the patient really died of an underlying condition' is a 'Conspiracy Theory'.

And yet on the video:

Dr. Birx said: "If someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID death."

Fauci said: "I can't imagine if someone comes in with coronavirus , goes to an ICU and they have an underlying heart condition and they die, they are going to say cause of death heart attack. I cannot see that that happens."

CDC =big pharma

Criminals

Money

Falsifying cause of death

NOT ONCE QUESTIONING VALIDITY OF COVID TEST

Fauci deep state criminal should be in jail

All confirmed by Dr Jensen and Dr shiva

I just got personal knowledge of a case

Here's the formula

62 yo male
Killed by hospital

How?

Underlying toxemia as almost all people have


Wasn't feeling well

Fear

diagnosed by phony test as positive

Goes to hospital

Given antibiotics
(They are toxic and can kill) anti bio tic

No improvement

Put on ventilator

Dead


Toxemia +
Fear+
False diagnosis+
Antibiotics+
Ventilator= death

All due to Louis Pasteur and modern day ignorant criminals

All he had to do was stay home and he would have recovered just like all the other times he went through a cleanse

I'd try all the natural remedies for coronavirus first before going to the hospital. There are loads of them out there.

Also I thought the most interesting bit in the Stat article above was that the CPAP sleep apnea machines are useful. It would be handy to have one of those on hand in case someone in your family gets pneumonia.

"more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness."

The brother of a friend got coronavirus, then double pneumonia, went to the hospital, they put him in a coma and on the ventilator. A week later, they're weaning him off the ventilator. He's still in a coma until he can breathe on his own, but he's going to be okay.