i know david wolfe recommends three tablespoons daily as a minimum therapeutic dose, but any ideas if this is in liquid or solid form? i ask because in the winter i woiuld take three solid tablespoons and feel sick as hell. now it's the summer and i'm taking three liquid tablespoons and feelin just fine. i don't think it's tolerance because i stopped taking it for a few months. whattaya think?

Is there a reason that you feel you need to take coconut oil in a therapeutic fashion? The reason I ask is that taking 3 tablespoons of coconut oil is a lot of saturated fat to eat in a day (175% of recommended intake of saturated fat), and raises your fat intake to a pretty high level (@ 350 calories of fat). NutritionData.com says that this amount of saturated fat is strongly inflammatory (-334 Inflammation Factor).

I think the numbers posted above are hogwash. Im sure the source is accurate etc... yet these terms have been confused with reality and are often absurd!...

1). Calories: A calorie is the amount of heat energy required to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree Celsius. The caloric level is determined in a bomb calorimeter (chamber where substances are tested, oxidized and ashed. The total energy given off is measured in degrees/ml. This has nothing to do with anything.

*Fruit, a perfect food, has approximately 90% water, 7% carbohydrates, 2% protein and 1% fat. Sounds good to me. As far as how many 'calories you "should" have, how hungry are you right now? And often less is more!

2) Not all Saturated fat is created equal. We need saturated fat, our cell walls are saturated fat. *Please read Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill.

3)Some people need more fat than others. I feel good eating 2-3 spoons of coconut fat/oil.

4) If you feel good eating that amount then feel good! But switch your fat sources up a bit.

*Many toxins (pesticides/herbicides are fat soluable, which means healthy fat is required to detoxify these chemicals.

We do not need to eat saturated fats. Our body can create saturated fats from the essential fatty acids.

We don't need to eat sugar either.

Our bodies are going to create fat anyway. Might as well get the best quality.

in this modern idustrial world, raw fat is a vital neccessity, protecting us from all the chemicals everywhere, keeps you vital and strong (without it you become emaciated, haggard, and have no resistance to the elements, and no long term energy!)

coconut oil is amazing, experience it yourself!

okay, appreciate the debate and all, but any thoughts on my actual question?

I love coconut oil and feel it is an important addition to the diet.

The liquid coconut oil is the exact same as the solid coconut oil. It changes form at different temperatures. Just make sure you have a high quality raw coconut oil.

I do not know why you felt sick in the winter. Maybe it was the combination of other foods you were eating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 09:26AM by Mike.

sorry ms savage,

i missed that part::: coconut oil's melting point is 75-76 degrees F (room temp)::: the perfect butter replacement

GREAT COCONUT ARTICLES!!!

[www.shazzie.com]
[www.living-foods.com]
[www.fresh-network.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 10:30AM by innervegetable.

Benefits of Saturated Fat

The benefits of saturated fats

The much-maligned saturated fats—which Americans are trying to avoid—are not the cause of our modern diseases. In fact, they play many important roles in the body chemistry:

Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity.


They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated.38


They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease.39 They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol.40


They enhance the immune system.41


They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids.
Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. 42


Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated.43 The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress.


Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract.

The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that "artery-clogging" saturated fats cause heart disease.44 Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated.45

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Marcos good tid bits on saturated fat.

can you post your sources when you copy&paste info please?

Inner, more than happy to. The source from the copy and paste is

The truth about saturated fats
by Mary Enig, PhD, and Sally Fallon


There are lots of great articles to be found on the benefits of coconut oil on [www.coconut-oil.com].


Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

I looked at that Enig article. The research she presents isn't so compelling. For example:

Quote

How much total saturated do we need? During the 1970s, researchers from Canada found that animals fed rapeseed oil and canola oil developed heart lesions. This problem was corrected when they added saturated fat to the animals diets. On the basis of this and other research, they ultimately determined that the diet should contain at least 25 percent of fat as saturated fat. Among the food fats that they tested, the one found to have the best proportion of saturated fat was lard, the very fat we are told to avoid under all circumstances!

I'm sorry, but feeding rapeseed or canola oil to cattle is not their natural diet. Its no wonder that they developed lesions. Cattle should be eating grass, not vegetable oil. Lard is not the natural food of cattle. Cattle are herbivores (grass eaters), not carnivores. It may be true that when fed an unnatural diet of refined vegetables oils, that concetrated saturated fats reverse the symptomology of the incorrect diet. This is not the same as being healthy. In fact, it could be that the lard just suppressed the symptoms, and those cattle were not any healthier after ingesting lard.

Also, fruits and vegetables have some amount of saturated fats in them. 7% of the fat in almonds is saturated. 13% of the fat in avocados is saturated. 10% of the fat in romaine lettuce is saturated.

On the other hand, 86% of the fat in coconut oil is saturated fat. 40% of the fat in lard is saturated fat.

>>>>Also, fruits and vegetables have some amount of saturated fats in them. 7% of >>>>the fat in almonds is saturated. 13% of the fat in avocados is saturated. 10% of >>>>the fat in romaine lettuce is saturated.

>>>>On the other hand, 86% of the fat in coconut oil is saturated fat. 40% of the >>>>fat in lard is saturated fat.

Bryan,

I'm not seeing the connection or your point. Are you suggesting avoiding coconut fat?

Inner,

The one thing that I've noticed about Bryan is that he is on a different journey than us. Instead of pointing that out he'd rather come here and try to tell us what raw foods "he" believes are not good for us regardless of all the research that says the opposite. Bruce Fife actually wrote a great book called The Coconut Oil Miracle that has so much information about pure coconut oil that it's really nothing that Bryan could say that would change my mind. I've seen how seen how many folks that have been helped by adding coconut oil to their diets and that's all that I need. Also, there are many, and I do mean many, raw foodists that sing the praises of Coconut Oil and all of it's healthful benefits.

So, if Bryan doesn't want to add Coconut Oil to his diet that's fine but until he has information that truly counters all that I've read then there's nothing he could say that would prove anything to the contrary.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

has anyone taken coconut oil to "combat" acne? i'm interested..

Yeah lilpaws, good raw oils can help. Especially if your new to eating healthy, the good displaces the bad.

I also used coconut and almond oil topically. It helped!

...and acted as a mild sunscreen. BTW sun is really good at clearing up acne.

i've been vegetarian for about 7 years, vegan for 1 and raw since may..
i had acne the past few years and took pills but stopped before i went raw. i still don't take any pills and my face was clear but when i started eating raw my face flared up! /: i'm hoping this is all detox i just wish i knew how long it lasted.
i'll try coconut oil! thanks!!

I think you're right about detox. Also your body could be allergic to some rawfoods without you even knowing it. This will all pass.

And remember just a little oil goes a long way.

innervegetable,

Dietary saturated fats are a waste product as they are unusable by the body. What make a fat usable is its capacity to hold nutrients, be it proteins, carbohydrates, or other micronutrients. Saturated fats are unable to hold nutrients as all of its bonds are taken (this is where the term saturated comes from), and thus is viewed by the body as a waste product. When you eat the saturated fat, the body promptly moves it to it elimination system as it has no use for it. For people eating a lot of animal products, it is in the elimination of the saturated fat that these fats clog the various arteries. Certainly cooking the fat makes it even more sticky. However, the body doesn't use coconut oil, it discards it. Perhaps this is why coconut oil is less "fattening" than unsaturated vegetable oil.

So if a product is not used by the body, and is treated as a waste product, why bother to ingest it? It certainly doesn't taste good by itself. Most people who eat coconut butter use something to flavor it (salt or honey).

Bryan,

>>Dietary saturated fats are a waste product as they are unusable by the body.

That is an interesting statement! I'll remain open to that possibility, yet, have very hard time buying into that right now.

>>What make a fat usable is its capacity to hold nutrients...

Yet fat IS a vital nutrient, composing a huge percentage of your body.

>>However, the body doesn't use coconut oil, it discards it.

Wow, I can not "believe" that! Because, I've experienced the ways in which coconut has been usefully "used". You'll have to be more elaborate to convince me of that one. I would'nt mind the debate.

The stuff about the saturated fats I learned in a raw nutritional science course. I agree that fat is a vital nutrient, however it is only needed in small quantities like 3% to 5% of total caloric intake. This means if you are eating a 2000 calories diet, that 60 to 100 calories, or 7 to 11 grams of fat are needed daily. 1 tablespoon of oil is 120 calories, which is more than the minimal necessary amount.

If you only eat fruits and leafy greens as your diet, its easy to get 3% to 5% of your calories from fat without any overt fats coming from oil, nuts, seeds, or avocados.

Bryan,

Thats great your happy and healthy on that diet. For me, measuring calorie intake is irrelevent. The amount of fat calories i eat varries, my food instincts are more valuable than "3-5% calories from fat"

For me, and everyone is different, i've been healthy NOT avoiding nuts, seeds, coconuts, avocados, and oil.

I'm sorry, but quoting Bruce Fife is like quoting the coconut oil industry since

Quote

Dr. Bruce Fife, N.D., no longer sees patients and now derives a majority (if not all) his income from the coconut oil industry.

[thyroid.about.com]

Ok just my opinion here - but I don't think we should stress about what quantity of any particular oil is the "right" quantity - our bodies have a natural, in-built craving for fat, and when we feel that, we should indulge accordingly. It's why low-fat diets are so hard to stick to, the body needs fat.

Coconut is a plant - therefore, if you crave a coconut, then eat a coconut. It probably means your body needs that saturated fat. I mean how often do you actually crave coconut? Maybe once a month for me. So I could see how daily coconut oil might not be a great idea - but I certainly think it's important & beneficial every now & then.

Olive & flax seem to be the best "everyday" oils. Maybe hemp too.

Just as white sugar or white bread are considered "empty calories", as they are refined products that have only carbohydrates but no vitamins, minerals, fiber, phytonutrients, antioxidants, oils are also a "pure" fat, that all the vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, antioxidants, and fibers have been removed.

Bryan,

I have to admit that many of the comments and opinions that you post are very persuasive. You seem to be very knowledgable and experienced. I think that there are beliefs that you post that are true, but I don't want for them to be.
I'm maybe just not ready for them yet. I've been raw for one and a half years and am still very much "owned" by some of my food preferences. I have been progressing in my healthy food choices and letting go of some not so healthy ones - the whole time remaining raw.

So, I just wanted to say - please keep posting - you are an inspiration! I don't know that I'll ever reach the point where I too can "eat to live" to the degree that you seem to have reached. But it's nice to have someone who has already walked that road and forged the path for the rest of us.

Sometimes it seems like we decide what we WANT to be true and then go find someone who will back that up for us in a book on raw foods. But a lot of what you say makes soooooo much sense, because it's so NATURAL. Anyhoo, thanks for what you say and do - and sometimes go through around here!!!

Life Is Good!

alive!

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> innervegetable,
>
> Dietary saturated fats are a waste product as they
> are unusable by the body.

That is false.


> So if a product is not used by the body, and is
> treated as a waste product, why bother to ingest
> it? It certainly doesn't taste good by itself.
> Most people who eat coconut butter use something
> to flavor it (salt or honey).

Your assumptions are false and I don't think even you believe them.

Don't universalize your opinions. Many people very much enjoy the taste of coconut and coconut oil.

By the way, here's a nice refutation of the attack on saturated fat.

[www.cholesterol-and-health.com]

I enjoy Bryan's purest-idealist dialogue (he obviously does too) its good for the sake of arguement

For the sake of argument we could blather on about religion or our favorite brand of toothpaste but health is somewhat of a serious issue. To claim dogma as science is ok as long as people recognize it but people struggling with health issues are more vulnerable. There is a desperate need for an easy answer. And that's what natural hygiene sells. A one size fits all plan, closed system that seems to cause a closing of the mind in it's adherents to any data that could be seen as potentially threatening (such as the fact that monkeys consume medicinal herbs and eat clay or that their buttocks' are made of saturated fat).

However, in reality one size does not fit all. Very few people seem to thrive on the diet that NHers promote and even it's adherents can be called into question simply for that fact that they feel the need to bash any system (herbalism, Chinese medicine, essential oil therapy, enzyme supplimentation, internal cleansing, etc. etc.) that has an opposing viewpoint. Generally those secure in their beliefs don't find that sort of action necessary.