HIYA!

Traveling in Central America until late spring. Want to do some fasting. Finally read Arnold Ehret's "Mucusless Diet Healing System". More sure than ever that a big reason I'm not thriving on mostly raw is that I need to clean out.

Saw his suggestion to do a short three-day fast, then eat for a day or more, then do another short fast, then eat again for a day or more ... and to continue doing this. Became really interested. On the one hand it seems foolish, on the other hand it seems like a great idea. Wondering if anyone has any experience with this or something similar.

Thanks a ton.

Troy.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

Hey Troy ! glad to see you !! very cool keep us posted bout your travels how exciting

I always found south america so cool .. well i found asia very cool tooo , but their so different and so similar in so many ways

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Troy,

Nice to see you're back : )

What reason does Ehret give for playing peekaboo with one's body this way? I have yet to read any of his works, so . . .

Central America where?

TroySantos.....The idea of Water Fasting for 3 days, then eating for 1 day, and then alternating that, might work better if the 1 day was fresh Juices.
I think I've read all of Ehret's books, but don't remember that particular way of Fasting. It's an interesting concept.....WY

Professor Arnold Ehret, taken shortly after his 49 day fast in Cologne, Germany, circa 1905. Ehret later migrated to southern California and helped to spawn a new sub-culture in America, based upon his natural philosophy and lifestyle. His books have never been out of print in over 70 years. (Photo courtesy of Fred Hirsch)

I think there are benefits in both shorter fasts and longer fasts.
One thing I find helpful is that after about 3 days or so of water fasting my desire for food abates making it much easier to fast for an extended period of time.

If I remember correctly, from Ehret's book, "Rational Fasting", Ehret was concerned that people with serious toxic buildup could harm themselves on a more extended fast, by bringing up too much toxic mucous all at once. So the idea was that a person could bring up some toxic mucus during the first 3-day fast, flush it out with a fruit-only diet for one or 2 days, then fast 3 days again to bring up more junk, etc. It was a way for people with health issues to fast more safely, hence the term, "rational fasting".

These days, Dr. Joel Fuhrman recommends that an extended fast (longer than 3 days) should be supervised by a trained physician. The physician can take the blood pressure and measure this and that to let the faster know if they are in any danger and need to break their fast. In Ehret's time, physicians couldn't do that.

Realistically though, most people won't be going to a trained physician to supervise an extended fast (there simply aren't very many trained physicians available), so the 3-day fast is still a responsible alternative.

IMO, fasting can be very healthy - as long as the goal is health/spiritual/whatever, and fasting doesn't become the goal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2010 09:26PM by suncloud.

HIYA Everybody!

Thanks for the welcome back.

The Arnold Ehret book is called The Mucusless Diet Healing System. Published in 1916 I think. I think it´s considered one of his best books. I thought it was great. Haven´t read any of his others. This one came to me as a big surprise.

Suncloud, I don´t remember very well Ehret´s explanation. But it seems possble he used the same rational you mentioned.

At the moment, I´m in Nicaragua. I really didn´t expect to travel, or to be here. I went to Belize to a budding community there. There was a 30 day period to see if it´d work out. It didn´t. I left after about 3 weeks.

So, I went to Guatemala, Honduras, and now Nicaragua. I am now at a WWOOF farm but it´s not organic. Close, and good in some ways, just not organic. I won´t leave right away because I´m doing some cool things here. Was mostly raw at the beginning. But the guy with the car isn´t around now. So I was just going to eat what the others were cooking up. Then they left. I´m alone now! So I´ve come to get some fruit, check this thread, and do a couple of other things.

It´s been a fascinating trip. I see that I really appreciate Asia! There´s something appealing about being here, but after a bit more than two months, I really prefer Asian countries.

If anyone is interested, there´s durian in Honduras. Lancetilla Botanical Garden has 10 trees. I volunteered there for a day and talked with one of the workers. He told me the people who work there love the fruit. They wait around the trees for the fruit to fall! I only saw one of the trees, and it´s massive. The sign at the base of the tree says 1958, and either Malaysia or Thailand. I think it says Malaysia. So, at least that one tree isn´t the Mon Thong durian from Thailand. My favorite. It fruits in July and August. I don´t know if they propagate, sell seeds, sell cuttings, or what. It´s a gorgeous place in its own right.

I ¨surfed someone´s couch¨ through this organization called Couch Surfing. Host families or host individuals host travelers. I suppose it could be travelers within one´s own country, but I only know of it as an international thing. Stayed with an American missionary family in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. They have some kind of connection with a couple of pieces of land there, trying to develop sustainable communities. I went and did some work to prepare for others to plant plantains. Beautiful areas.

Belize has lots of communities sprining up, it seems. And, the missionary guy in Honduras says there are lots of communities forming in Honduras too, except he was telling me about Hondurans forming the communities!

I don´t speak much Spanish so I´m pretty cut off from what´s going on around me, and from learning much about people´s private lives. Before I leave here, I´ve got to hook up with a ¨Nica¨ on the Couch Surfing site to find one who speaks good English so I can learn more about this country and it´s history from someone who lived it first hand.

Someone told me about this site www.caretaker.org It´s called Caretaker Gazette. You can look after someone´s house while they´re away. Free, or, they even pay you. There are places here in Central America. I want to try one out. They´re in many countries. Stay in homes, on farms, or other places to live. Looks great. Thinking to do this in Costa Rica, after I leave Nicaragua.

Then, I think there´s a Zen place in Panama. Thinking to stay there for a while if I can. I haven´t contacted them yet though. Then, I suppose I´ll head back, going to a couple of the places I´ve already been.

Honestly, my life here has been feeling pointless. I am 45 years old and have felt for a few years now that it´s time to settle down. But I want to ordain as a Zen monk for a year. Don´t really want to give up raw in order to do it. But I will. A friend has been nudging me for years to try this Zen temple he knows in Japan. Sogenji is the name. The abbot is great, he says.

But there´s this other idea in my head. I´m not thriving on mostly raw. Some people say that you need to really clean out before you can eat raw and get the benefits from it. Well, I suppose I need to clean out. Then, Ehret and others say, that´s when you start getting close to God, feel our divinity .... All sorts of things that I haven´t even approached. I am not at a time or place where I can do a cleanse, or a really restful fast. This place I´m at now isn´t it.

I am not making myself very clear here. Sorry about this. Suffice to say, I´ve got some decisions to make. I´m not thinking about them. I will let my life fly like this until clarity happens. If there´s no clarity before it´s time to fly back then I´ll just go to that temple in Japan.

Troy.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

I tried Ehret's way of it for a very long time, but it only worked well for veryshort periods of time. I definitely didn't "thrive". Ehret's way is actually very similar to what Doug Graham calls for in 80-10-10.

I've found for me that there's a way to do raw food and stay vegan that isn't quite so restrictive and can provide all the nutrients, yet still avoid a toxic buildup.

Good fortune Troy Santos with your journey!

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've found for me that there's a way to do raw
> food and stay vegan that isn't quite so
> restrictive and can provide all the nutrients, yet
> still avoid a toxic buildup.
Could you share this with us, or should we PM you?.....WY

Troy,

Wow, for someone who feels his life here has been feeling pointless, your life seems to have breathlessness-inducing variety--I envy your liberty!

I wish you well in attaining that which you seek . . . whatever it may be and wherever it may be found. Safe journey, son of the earth.

Suncloud....Forget my question. I see you answered it under the topic "A shift away from Veganism......".

Arnold Ehret didn't believe in or advocate a 100% raw food diet. So I am not sure one could say that what Graham proposes and what Ehret proposes are the same diet.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arnold Ehret didn't believe in or advocate a 100%
> raw food diet. So I am not sure one could say that
> what Graham proposes and what Ehret proposes are
> the same diet.

Hi Bryan,

From what I remember, Ehret advocated a cooked and raw diet for transition only. Are you saying that Ehret advocated the eating of cooked foods in the long term and if so, can you please point to where it says that in his books?

I studied Mucusless Diet very closely many years ago and I'm fairly certain that Ehret saw the cooked and raw diet only as a healing gateway to his "Paradisiacal Diet" of raw fruits and green-leaf vegetables.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 03:22PM by Omega.

Arnold Ehret, Mucusless Diet Healing System, p.94:

"Raw fruits and, if desired, raw green-leaf vegetables form the ideal food of man. That is the mucusless diet. But the mucusless diet as a healing system uses raw, rough vegetables for their cleansing qualities, baked ones as food, and baked and stewed fruits AS A LESS AGGRESSIVE DISSOLVER of poisons and mucus to MODERATE THE ELIMINATION IN SEVERE CASES."


Bryan, I think it is inaccurate to state that Ehret did not believe in or advocate a 100% raw diet. It was his transitional or "healing" diet that was not 100% raw.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arnold Ehret didn't believe in or advocate a 100%
> raw food diet.

Hi Bryan,

As you are the moderator of the board, your posts carry extra weight for me.

Do you know something about Ehret that I don't, or were you mistaken?

Thanks.

Jay-- Ehret was my first influence and introduction to the raw food diet too, and it was pretty clear to me that he advocated 100% raw once you are detoxified. The way I see it, he and Doug Graham recommend practically the same thing, because Graham sometimes advocates that people in transition slow down a too agressive detox with a little cooked food, as well, doesn't he?

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Here's the quote I remember:

Quote

At present among vegetarian health seekers "Raw food diet" is in fashion. No doubt it represent great progress, but the arguments are partly wrong, and leads to mistaken and fanatic extremes.

They claim cooking destroys all food values ....

Omega, please do not make me an authority. And while Ehret had a lot of great ideas, it would serve you to not make him an authority either.

Be your own authority.

That's interesting. I read 3 of his books on raw food diet and fasting and never encountered that statement or the suggestion to add cooked food to the diet. It seemed to me from reading his books that he recommended a diet of fruit and greens, as well as periodic fasts. I wonder when he said that, and what the context was. I'll see if I can find the reference online somewhere.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

This was in "The Mucusless Diet Healing System". The main premise of that book is that certain foods are mucus forming and others are not. This muscus forming property was not based on raw verus cooked, but more along the lines of alkaline versus acid forming.

According to Ehret, eating a cooked alkaline forming food is healthier than eating a raw acid forming food. Ehret states that cooked fruits are alkaline forming, so they are a healthy food.

Let me make this very easy.

From my quote above (Mucusless Diet, p.94):

"Raw fruits and, if desired, raw green-leaf vegetables form the ideal food of man."

I guess you're right Omega

Prana, good for you for conceding the point. Ehret was most definitely an advocate of a 100% raw food diet.

I was interested in what you said here: "Omega, please do not make me an authority. And while Ehret had a lot of great ideas, it would serve you to not make him an authority either."

I'm very unclear about where you are drawing the line as moderator. You have just made several critical statements about Arnold Ehret, attributed a quote to him (unconfirmed), summarized his teachings, issued a negative critique about Ehret as a raw food advocate, and then advised Omega "not to make him an authority".

Under what circumstances is it OK for the rest of us on this forum to do the same, in reference to any particular raw food program?

Perhaps you're allowing a little more leeway than it may at first have appeared?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 03:50AM by suncloud.

Suncloud,

I don't have any negative feeling about Ehret. Also, I don't think he is a bad influence of any kind, and I don't have any issues with his food choices in The Mucusless Diet.

In The Mucusless Diet, there a lots of recipes for cooked foods. And there are charts of food that are non-mucus forming that need to be cooked to be eaten.

One example recipe (and there are many other cooked food recipes in The Mucusless Diet):

Nut Lisbon Steak - Two cups boiled brown rice, cold. 1 cup braised sliced onion; ..., Dip in boiling Crisco until golden brown.

Hmmmmmmmm.

In the 80-10-10 diet, there is not a single cooked food recipe. There are lots of recipes and sample daily menus, all made with raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Could these 2 men be talking about the same diet?

Also, because Ehret advocates eating some cooked foods in his book (while stating that raw fruits and raw greens are the "ideal" ), I don't see this as a negative. And I am not criticizing him, I'm just saying that he advocates eating some cooked foods. And he says that "raw foodists" have partly wrong ideas that can lead to mistaken and fanatic extremes. To him, ideally, raw fruits and raw greens are the best. But what about in practice, what about in reality?

So its one thing to say something is ideal. This can mean that an ideal diet is suitable only under ideal conditions. I don't know. An idealist is someone who is not a realist. Ideal is a mental concept. Reality is real.

So when I say that Ehret advocates eating some cooked foods, this is viewed as negative criticism. When other here say Graham has an intense fear of "fat", or that what he states is passed off as "science", or that he could be a poster child for Auschwitz, this is not criticism, but plain and simple facts.

Hmmmmmmmm.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 04:23AM by Prana.

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 09:13AM by Omega.

Prana,

I just wanted to know if it's OK to debate or not.

If so, you might check page 132 of 80/10/10, where Graham states that if there's no other option, it's better to eat high-fat cooked than low-fat raw. Doesn't mean that Graham endorses cooked food though, nor does anything in any of Ehret's books mean that Ehret endorsed cooked food over raw.

I don't think your Ehret quote is correct though, and it would be nice to add some page numbers as references for the Lisbon nut steak.

(For the record Prana, I never made any statement about Auschwitz or about Doug Graham's appearance. Mixing such statements with mine gives the impression that all the statements came from me. It's OK. I'll regard it as an unintended error).

Sorry Omega. If I hadn't come in here, the Ehret discussion might have been left where it was. I regret jumping in here. It wasn't appropriate.

OOPS!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 12:09PM by suncloud.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In The Mucusless Diet, there a lots of recipes for
> cooked foods. And there are charts of food that
> are non-mucus forming that need to be cooked to be
> eaten.
Those cooked food recipes are not Ehret's, but were
later added by the publisher...Fred Hirsch. He mentions so in
the book.....WY

WY,

I was gonna say, what did Herr Ehret know about Crisco?!



I get what Prana's saying: too many viewpoints means that no one's advice is sacrosanct and no one is truly an authority. That is, Arnold Ehret was an authority on his own body under his regimen, and we should all employ independent discretion about ourselves, likewise : )

I think the important clarification-- especially now that we know that Arnold Ehret was not the originator of the cooked food recipes later added to his book by his publisher-- is that Arnold Ehret is one of the earliest and finest proponents of a raw food diet, who advocated fruits and greens, and contributed much to the raw food movement by advocating and explaining how to fast in his book 'Rational Fasting.'

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In The Mucusless Diet, there a lots of recipes for
> cooked foods.

As others have now stated, that list of cooked food recipes was added by the publisher. From page 130 of Mucusless Diet:

"NOTE: Prof. Ehret frequently refers to having purposely omitted recipes, in spite of repeated requests, and gave as his reason, 'In Nature, such as exists in the animal kingdom, there are absolutely no mixtures at all. The ideal and most natural method of eating is the mono-diet. One kind of fresh fruit, when in season, should constitute a meal, and you will find yourself better nourished. This condition, of course, cannot take place until you have thoroughly cleansed your body of toxemic poisons, mucus, or call it foreign substances.'

"We feel sure that Prof. Ehret would have approved and granted permission to include a few mucus-lean recipes, particularly of salads, in this 20th [typo - actually 21st] edition of his Mucusless Diet Healing System, after being convinced as we have that the public demand requires substitutes from the present day acknowledged method of food preparation, if they are to successfully take up the Ehret method. And so, with this thought in view. and with the hopes of converting many more to the Ehret system, we present a few sample menus simply as examples of how to combine and prepare a meal."

In addition, I cannot find in my (21st) edition the recipe that you provided, which provides further indication that those recipes were added to Ehret's original work by the publisher.

> And there are charts of food that
> are non-mucus forming that need to be cooked to be eaten.

Those are Berg's Tables. Ehret clearly states prior to the tables (p.105):

"The mere fact that some foods given in my list are 'acid-binding' does not necessarily mean that I endorse their use. This list is given as a comparison only and should be studied for what it is worth." [his italics]

> In the 80-10-10 diet, there is not a single cooked
> food recipe. There are lots of recipes and sample
> daily menus, all made with raw fruits, vegetables,
> nuts and seeds. Could these 2 men be talking about
> the same diet?

The same post-transition diet? Absolutely.

> And he says that "raw foodists" have partly
> wrong ideas that can lead to mistaken and fanatic
> extremes.

He was referring to raw foodists who eat biologically inappropriate foods in the raw state, such as raw grains. I don't think Graham supports the eating of raw grains either.

> So when I say that Ehret advocates eating some
> cooked foods, this is viewed as negative
> criticism.

When you write without qualification that "Ehret advocates eating some cooked foods," it's not criticism – it's a misrepresentation.

However, as it's true that Ehret DID provide a few simple cooked food recipes of his own in the "Transition Diet" chapters, had you written that Ehret advocated the eating of some cooked foods during transition, it would have been a statement of fact.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 04:52PM by Omega.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If so, you might check page 132 of 80/10/10, where
> Graham states that if there's no other option,
> it's better to eat high-fat cooked than low-fat
> raw.

suncloud, did you mean low-fat cooked over high-fat raw?

> Sorry Omega. If I hadn't come in here, the Ehret
> discussion might have been left where it was. I
> regret jumping in here. It wasn't appropriate.

I disagree. You have every right to express yourself.