Hi guys

I have been lurking through this forums for a while and never posted before. Well I kinda need your help right now.

I have been getting info and trying to practice raw-foodism to different degrees for about 2 years now. All I have read about raw food makes sense to me: the bit about the enzymes, the bit about the toxins in meat and fish (well for those who are vegan anyway), the bit about the better digestion because of the different environments to digest the food etc. Then after a lot of searching I have come across many many doctors and nutritionist and scientist that tell me all of this conceptions (the ones about the enzymes and the digestion and the toxins) are largely false and based on very basic and outdated knowledge of biochemistry.

So then there is another thing, in my long search for the real truth I continued investigating and found out there is another big current out there not quite in opposition to raw but completely different and it is the low-carb diets where the main point seems to be to avoid spikes of sugar in blood levels and therefore avoid insulin reactions in the body. This approach kind of hits home closely because for the most of my life I have been more or less addicted to sugar and sugar rushes. My pathetic attempts at doing raw did not cure this since I kind of saw myself drawn to fruits and when I tried to do higher-veg/lower fruit I was not consuming enough fats with the veg to keep me satiated and away from food for too long.

Sorry for the long rant. My questions are: how come all the science behind the raw food trend does not address the issue of insulin at all.

See guys I think I am just going to go anorexic and die: since I can't consume carbs coming from any source (or very few anyway), I can't consume fats coming from animal origin because of the toxins (thankfully I can consume vegetal fats although there is a lot of negative info out there in relation to all kinds of oils) all I can eat is veg and to achieve my daily portion of calories on a mainly-veg diet is going to be difficult.

hehe I am not joking but I am not completely serious either please noone think that I will die or go anorexic or anything I am just being a bit jokey in my tone if you get my drift.

I know different diets suit different people... i am just having a lot of trouble finding the one that suits me!

Thanks in advance to everyone that takes the time to answer... I hope I have not bored everyone to tears

NO, you aren't boring, but you do cause concern for your welfare. It's all a matter of being open to all sorts of healing diets for yourself even if they may not be 100% raw. If you have blood sugar issues, I would opine that may be connected to protein deficiency. I don't know why "the raw food trend does not address the issue of insulin at all." Maybe some parties have an axe to grind and don't care to hear about rawfooders who don't do well on all-raw.

I am "only" 50% raw after being 100% cooked for years! When I try 80-100% raw I experience hypoglycemic symptoms. I am not going to analyze it to death; I simply reduced raw & added some cooked starches + nonanimal protein. That doesn't make me a criminal. My body will tell me what to do and yours will tell you what to do. By the way, hypoglycemia is generally thought to be a symptom of some problem in the liver, not just the spleen/pancreas system.

We all have to make a distinction between Forever Diets and Healing Diets. Anyone who is determined to eat a certain way "forever, no matter what!" wants everybody else to be the same way, and it's not right. You may need supplements and professional assistance from someone who will respect whatever you want to do. A good health advisor will know how to work around your preferences instead of telling you you HAVE to eat meat or low-carb. You have only one body; this is a one-way trip, you can't re-do this life, so take care of yourself.

I don't subscribe the the enzyme theory either. Yet that hasn't kept me from realizing the benefits of eating a 100% raw diet for over 8 years.

Even if you remove the enzyme theory, for which there is little or no scientific proof, there is plenty of science that proves that cooking reduces vitamins, minerals, water, fiber in foods and that cooking produces toxins, some of which are carcinogenic.

I have not seem great results with people eating a low carb diet. Sure, people lose weight, but they often become very toxic. It seems to me that the healthiest people eating a cooked food diet are eating a whole foods low fat vegan diet.

I have been eating a high fruit low fat diet for over 7 years now, all 100% raw. I don't have issues with my blood sugar spiking, but I certainly did have problems with blood sugar before going raw, including fungus/candida issues. All those problems healed for me the first year of being raw. Some people on 80-10-10 get over their candida symptoms in a few weeks or less.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2010 03:08AM by Prana.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have been eating a high fruit low fat diet for
> over 7 years now, all 100% raw. I don't have
> issues with my blood sugar spiking.

I'm curious: do you check your blood sugar levels with a blood glucose meter before and after your high fruit meals? If so, what are the numbers?

My experiences closely parallel Prana. I think that when you are eating fresh produce, you are eating the highest quality foods you can.

I think the science of fresh fruits and vegetables having a positive effect on insulin levels and effectiveness is fairly well established and accepted.

In my experience, it is important for a person to find a way of eating that is PROGRESSING healthier and healthier....and one that allows them to eat with a minimum of fretting or concern.

Eat a wide variety of fresh produce - focusing on fresh fruits or vegetables....whichever you prefer.....and I'm sure you'll do fine!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't subscribe the the enzyme theory either.
> Yet that hasn't kept me from realizing the
> benefits of eating a 100% raw diet for over 8
> years.
>
> Even if you remove the enzyme theory, for which
> there is little or no scientific proof, there is
> plenty of science that proves that cooking reduces
> vitamins, minerals, water, fiber in foods and that
> cooking produces toxins, some of which are
> carcinogenic.
>

I totally agree.

About blood sugar spikes, nearly all fresh fruits have a low-to-moderate glycemic index, meaning they do not cause blood sugar spikes. The exceptions are melons, pineapple, and dates, but most healthy people eat those fruits too without a problem.
[www.lowglycemicdiet.com]

One reason nearly all fruits will not cause a blood sugar spike is that they are a whole food, containing the natural fiber (complex carbs) that help to slow the sugar absorption process.

So enjoy your fruit!

In my experience - as a person who eats lots of fruit - it's also good to include a variety of raw vegan foods in the diet, including greens, nuts, seeds, sprouted grains/legumes (I prefer them soaked/sprouted 1-3 days), and seaweeds. A more inclusive raw food diet has helped me be healthy and satisfied with raw.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2010 08:53PM by suncloud.

Confundida2, for a little more information on diet and blood sugar, you might care to read The China Study by Dr. Colin Campbell and books by Dr. Neal Barnard.

High blood sugar levels are associated with diabetes; and science has begun to take note that in countries where meat consumption is low and carbohydrate consumption is much higher, there is also a much lower rate of diabetes! This well-established fact flies in the face of the current low carb diets for diabetics prescribed by institutes such as Joslin. Joslin readily admits that even those who faithfully follow their low-carb dietary regimen will experience a need to gradually increase their medication.

Dr. Neal Barnard has provided considerable evidence through human studies that a low-fat (cooked) vegan diet that includes an unlimited amount of whole food carbs is successful in lowering the need for diabetic medication.

Currently, there aren't diabetic studies on a raw food vegan diet, but who knows what we will learn in the future, if our raw food population is studied over the coming years!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2010 09:05PM by suncloud.

I know this may be in opposition to the beliefs of a lot of folk on this board - and indeed it's not something I really go for much myself, but if you have a problem with fruit why not try going down the Cousens/Clements type route of a low-glycemic raw diet which includes more fats and sprouted grains etc? I realise some people will say this leads to the diet being too high in fat, but then others will say it's the ideal raw vegan diet... Myself I sit on the fence



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You might find this interesting.....

[www.stevepavlina.com]

But the opening poster may not necessarily have a prediabetic condition, nor even be predisposed to such. He may have more of a tendency to chronic low blood sugar. Maybe he can clarify this.

Yes, we're all smart about blood sugar levels and what we think we know. Yet until we actually test for it, we do not know what affects what, and there's no reason to write things we really don't know. Theory is wonderful. But different bodies act in different ways to different food components. I like to know, for example, what eating seven bananas does to my blood glucose, and knowing these numbers affects my behavior.

I see it as we know what we think, Shane.

confundida,
If you are looking for blood sugar studies, Hallelujah Acres Foundation did a small study on carrot juice, a part of their diet. They tested blood sugar after taking 14.5 oz servings of carrot juice, carrot juice with oil, and the effects of supplementing with chromium. They confirmed that their customary serving size of 8 oz was fine though those with sugar issues and diabetics might start with 4 oz and check their blood sugar. They found a tbsp of oil in 8 oz of juice decreased the glycemic response by about 20%, and that 4 of 6 participants responded very well to supplemental chromium, nuts and seeds a good source.

[www.hacres.com]

Loeve,

Thanks for posting the study. Very interesting!

Suncloud, thank-you, for the carbohydrate studies you posted a while back which helped me understand the different types better, like how starch is a chain of glucose molecules. The glycemic index, being based on the body's response to glucose, makes starch very relevant. Michael Donaldson wondered why there was so much glucose in the study carrots, and it could be that the variety was a particularly sweet and starchy one...

I also ran across chromium supplementation for glycemic response in a pubmed search and found it yet to be proven, but I'll still keep eating my nuts and seeds for such minerals.

Then, adding oil to high glycemic juices is a standard Glycemic Group idea. I prefer to add whole coconut, etc., to my carrot juice, sometimes drinking lots. The variable rate of gastric emptying helps me understand the concept-- [www.vivo.colostate.edu]

Complex subject...

confundida2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Then after a lot of searching I have
> come across many many doctors and nutritionist and
> scientist that tell me all of this conceptions
> (the ones about the enzymes and the digestion and
> the toxins) are largely false and based on very
> basic and outdated knowledge of biochemistry...

To say the enzyme theory is "largely false" is over-reaching, in my opinion. There's just not that much research one way or the other. Michael Donaldson wrote of oral enzymes which are of benefit to some people and, as he writes, supplement natural enzymes found in foods-

"Even raw foods, which contain many digestive enzymes to assist in their digestion, will be more thoroughly digested with less of the body's own resources with the use of digestive enzymes." [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Pineapples and papaya are a couple of enzyme rich fruits commonly thought to assist digestion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 02:11PM by loeve.

"enzymes and the digestion"

What accompanies enzymes is bacteria and archaia, living microorganisms that also help digest food through fermentation and healthy gut floura. Preserving living enzymes leads to the keeping all that is living within a food. The common conception that the stomach is too acidic to allow intact passage of such Living components, is what's overly simplistic, IMO.