The word "emaciated" is pretty subjective and perhaps not productive, so I agree with Rawpreston that it might be good to try to avoid using it.

In regard to the original question, anyone beside Mark Squire?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2010 07:45PM by suncloud.

Rawpreston,

I wrote my problems with the 80/10/10 somewhere in one of these threads. I don't feel like going into it again. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find it. Mostly nerve-related problems, and feeling ungrounded, to the point of dysfunctional social isolation.

Best,
Mark

marksquire,

This is a raw vegan support board.

As you weren't able to make raw veganism work, perhaps this isn't the right place for you?

these things can happen on any type of special diet though so its better people hear his views incase there going through similar.

I feel Mark has been respectful of the vegan orientation of this board, and it would be a loss to encourage him to leave. Isn't there room for inclusion of people who are struggling with or have struggled with 100% raw vegan?

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel Mark has been respectful of the vegan
> orientation of this board, and it would be a loss
> to encourage him to leave. Isn't there room for
> inclusion of people who are struggling with or
> have struggled with 100% raw vegan?

I agree. Never should we outcast anyone, lest we have stooped to the level of people who ridicule us for being raw foodists

I dont think anyone has ever been asked to leave (formally) unless they repeatedly violate the TOS. One offense usually results in their post(s) being deleted.

Just as a reminder, the main purpose of this thread is to receive feedback from anyone who has consistently followed 80/10/10 (without transgression) for at least one year.

So far, that's only been MarkSquire, so it would seem that his presence on this thread is entirely relevant.

OK.

Anyone else who has consistently followed 80/10/10 for at least one year is welcome to post comments about their experience as well - not just the good experiences, not just the not-so-good experiences, but all actual experiences based on at least one year of consistency with the diet, whatever those experiences happen to be.

Forgot to mention that, as far as I'm concerned, everyone else's comments on this thread are welcome and appreciated. I just wanted to add a reminder of the original messsage.

My apologies to anyone who might have thought I didn't want them to post here.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont think anyone has ever been asked to leave
> (formally) unless they repeatedly violate the TOS.
> One offense usually results in their post(s)
> being deleted.

"Re: Successful 80/10/10
Posted by: Omega ()
Date: March 01, 2010 07:48AM


marksquire,

This is a raw vegan support board.

As you weren't able to make raw veganism work, perhaps this isn't the right place for you?"


Misses the point, the suggestion from Omega to Mark was not a formal request but on a human level constitutes a "suggestion" (imho, a request), formal or otherwise, from one member to another to leave. Do we want to actively discourage people who say "I'm not a vegan" but otherwise have valuable experience to share to leave. Mark did and said nothing, in my view, that warranted Omega's response. Saying you are not a vegan (after having been one) is a very different proposition than pushing cooked food or animal food which Mark didn't do. At a minimum, I think Omega's comment should have been PM and preferably not at all. Perhaps I missed something in Mark's posts that contradicts the above. If so, please provide it.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2010 11:11PM by pborst.

Movie-like, the following in alphabetical order,

My appreciation to Horsea, Kwan, marksquire, Omega, pborst, powerlifter, prana, RawPreston, Tamukha, Trive, tropical, Utopian Life, Wheatgrass Yogi, and WorkoutMan.

I love this mantra and offer it here to everyone who likes it too:

"Om. We meditate on the glory of the being who produced this universe. May thee enlighten our minds. Om. (Gayatri Mantra)"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2010 11:46PM by suncloud.

-----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2010 12:07AM by suncloud.

And I have massive appreciation for Suncloud, too! :-)

Beautiful mantra-- thank you!

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

its a brilliant forum we have here, friendly crowd who all bring something a little different that we can learn from, aslong as we dont censor topics of course hehe.

cheers suncloud

Well,

I have learned so much from all raw food people on the internet, I am very, very grateful. I would like just to share some thoughts, as this is obviously not just "a diet", but much, much more.

I have read in one of the books about raw food that we should always treat other people, who eat "traditional" food with nothing but love. I liked that very much. This is very important as I also agree that there is a certain level of addiction to processed food, and that it is really not easy to give up that life style. And it is a life style, not just a diet.

Also, it is easy now to pronounce the rest of the world as "evil" or "wrong" and point your finger at other people. Also it is very tempting to start a verbal war against food manufacturers, modern food industry, governments..bla, blah, blah. Instead, much more productive way is to simply lead a good life, and tell what you know to those who are interested. Maybe help a few people do a significant step for the better, as you are learning yourself - and we will never stop learning.

I have just gone my first month on 100% raw food, and I feel great, only need a little bit more exercise, but winter here (Midwest US) has been long, so I hope I would improve that soon. I have already lost some wait, still losing, slowly but steadily.

I know I can go like this for life, as this was just a natural step for me, I have been fasting for the most of my life, and this transition has been relatively easy. I still crave "traditional" food, when I smell it (my wife is a great chef, she is still on it), but it is not a real temptation, as fasting has taught me that it is easy to resist, knowing the benefits.

Thank you all, and I wish you all a great success with your exploration into the world of natural food.

Lovely sentiments, rab, thank you for writing.

Welcome to the site and I am glad your transition to a raw food lifestyle has been going so well.


My favorite raw vegan

Thanks for your kind welcome,

Some of that approach I have learned from this man (peter proctor), after watching one of the best documentaries I have seen in my life:
[video.google.com]#

This is a sad, beautiful documentary about farming in India. Whoever has the time to watch it, you will not regret if you watch the whole thing - it is one of the strongest messages ever, yet said in a calm, wise way. This should be played on all national TV networks in all countries...

When I took animal nutrition at Humboldt State University it was emphasized how critically important the balance of the internal microflora was in digestion for the grazing animal. These beneficial bacteria and a few other organisms help not only in the breakdown of the food but can create needed nutrients like amino acids. When they are not in the right balance the vegetarian animal can starve, or in our case the would be live food vegetarian. As one is working to establish proper health and balance to one's digestion a supplement is needed to prevent starvation, and wheat grass juice is it.

One example: A herd of deer were starving late in the winter (in northern New Mexico I believe). They air lifted alfalfa hay in to save them. They all none the less died. Autopsy revealed they were stuffed full of the alfalfa but that their beneficail microflora in the digestive system was keyed to the twigs and buds of the high winter range and could not aid in the digestion of alfalfa, the most nutritious of all forages. If deer, live food vegetarians their whole lives, with perfectly healthy and clean digestive systems, could starve on the most nutritious forage known; a human struggling to restore health and cleanliness to their digestive system and to become a live foodist certainly can expect gigantic problems with starvation as they also need the proper intestinal microflora to succeed. Studies with sheep showed that just switching from one type of brush to another took weeks for the internal microflora to readjust for successful digestion.

Wild grasses sprouting in the spring are also very good and much better tasting than wheat grass. Dried wheat grass is more palatable and is still a good supplement.

On the skin of unwashed fruit there are colonies of many, beneficial I think, micro-organisms. This could be the needed source for proper internal balance. And even vitamin B12. Unfortunately in this polluted world the skin of fruit also harbors many unwanted chemicals.

I think rejuvelac needs to be revisited. Why even make it from grain? Use some unwashed grapes from as clean an environment possible. Crush them and ferment them for a day or two, just for the micro-organisms. Many other fruits would surely work well too. The other cultured foods may be good too: sauerkraut and that cultured sunflower seed blend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2010 07:16AM by brome.

brome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I took animal nutrition at Humboldt State
> University

You can't really compare humans so directly to ruminants though. We don't rely on bacteria nearly to the extent that they do. They have bacteria in their stomachs which ferment the food. Our bacteria is primarily in the colon.

Plenty of people don't eat grass or rejuvelac and they do fine.

Google: BONOBO MICROFLORA NUTRITION PROTEIN

Quote

By definition, dietary fibre is not digested by mammalian
enzymes and passes relatively intact into the large intestine,
where a proportion is fermented by gut microflora. Fruits
and vegetables contain fibre that is more completely
fermentable than that found in cereals, a distinction
that appears to influence the physiological and health effects related to fibre intake. The overall fermentability
ancestral dietary fibre would have much exceeded
typically found in today’s fibre-containing foods.

Quote

Although no data have been available for the gorilla until now, other great apes are very effective hindgut fermentors (Milton and Demment 1988, Van Soest 1994). The sacculated colon of humans led Elliot and Barclay-Smith (1904) to conclude that the colonic structure of humans is closer to that of a herbivore than to an omnivore

Quote

Limited nutritional information exists on diets of free-ranging orangutans, Pongo abelii and P. pygmaeus. Although they are classified as frugivores, the chemical composition of their diet and their gastrointestinal anatomy suggest that they rely on fiber fermentation for a substantial portion of energy. However, the extent to which they can ferment fiber is not known. Continuous culture systems, inoculated with orangutan fecal bacteria, were established to determine the fiber-digesting capacity of orangutan hindgut microflora.

Listen I'm not saying that humans don't have bacteria in our digestive system. We actually have more bacteria in there than we have cells in our whole body. But you used the dying deer example as logic that humans need to eat grass and rejuvelac? I don't see the logical progression there. I've never eaten those things. Grass does not appeal to me as a food.