Oh. I see. I didn't realize you were being "snarky." I often misunderstand and think people are being serious when they are actually being sarcastic.


My favorite raw vegan

Maybe I'm desensitized or something, I got a kick out of David's comment.
Then again, I laughed when I saw that emoticon. Where are you guys finding these things?

Ah, anyhow, I feel like we own this language, all of the words in it, good, bad, ugly, dirty, slang gutter speach included so why not use them all? In context, which the title of that book is IMO. If it reaches more people that way, and it will because people are so base, then more power to her. They're just words.

Though I admit to not liking the N word at ALL still in my life, no matter how often I hear it.

I do quite enjoy the C word. Whatever.

C is for cookie ! thats good enough for meeeee !



...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Coco: I get those emoticons from freesmileys.org. I wish they were available here because it would be convenient plus make things a bit more amusing. But I was kinda sorta joking when I posted that. I agree with you about words and I certainly don't want to suggest that we disallow any words, but the "C" word??? Man, it's hard to think of a context to drop the C-bomb...

I don't know her. I don't want to know her. She really rubs me the wrong way.

It's not just the word "bitch", it's the whole foul-mouthed, nasty, mean-spirited, derogatory attitude she affects. Her message gets lost in it for me. I don't really equate mean with funny or witty. There are certain types of humor that can be mean, like sarcasm, but just because something is mean does not mean it's funny. It often isn't. In this case it's just gimmicky.

Besides, from the excerpts I've seen she stresses skinniness above health and pushes items like soy ice cream and compressed veggie burgers rather than emphasizing the importance of real, fresh vegetable and fruit based foods. There are many pages devoted to 'exposing' livestock practices and condemning the meat industry is less likely to convince me to eat more produce than praising the benefits of fruits and vegetables. I don't think skinniness or bitchiness are good ideals. I also think that modeling is not the best background to come from to write a nutrition book.

On a broader level, I think the vegan/vegetarian movement has already found itself easy to marginalize by mainstream society, which labels many as self-righteous and sanctimonious and a few other choice terms I won't mention. Adding a sect of trash-talkers spewing a mix loosely based facts that can be hard to distinguish from opinions isn't really an improvement.

Anyway, if she's helped some good for those she's helped.

Veghunter: If you feel that way (and I agree with some of your observations, by the way) you should see these chicks on Youtube I stumbled upon recently. They seem to have a show called "Sexy bitches like it raw!" Alrighty then...

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 12:17AM by banana who.

Thanks for the link. I really don't like their style either, but it's definitely a more positive attitude.

But you see, I got a laugh out of that too! Great play on words, bet they get a lot of attention. Good for them and their message.

Oh Jodi, sometimes I use that "C" word in place of the other one .

me too coco

in fact the first time i heard the C word for cookie , was when i was having chinese food with my insanely funny grandmother who died a year later and she said, "well the food was good but that waitresses skirt was so short i could see her cookie !"

well its stuck ever since , it makes me giggle

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

ROFLMAO...Jodi, you have to be the funniest person on this board,lol... and your grandma sounds adorable..lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Rory is definitely getting people more vegan aware thats for sure.

I suspect several people's posts were misunderstood in this thread.

I assume the author(s) uses the word "bitch" (and "skinny" with tongue in cheek, in anger, in empowerment. It's meaning is lost outside of the context. It is temporarily reactionary. And, it's not okay to then call them bitches, obviously.

Similarly, someone who is accused of being "a queer" might call themselves "queer", indicating that they are not crushed by people calling them "queer", and isn't it humorous that someone thinks it is an insult to be described as unusual.

It has a different meaning when the words are used that way, than if someone else uses them.

yeah,she is hot

I don't think having a career or job as a model precludes a person from having knowledge on nutrition.

Liponeer: I totally knew what the authors meant. I just don't buy it and it's only my opinion; results may vary. I believe that everything has an energy; a vibration. The word '@#$%&' and 'flower' sound and feel different to me. When I hear people call each other the N-word it sounds crass and ignorant, even if the people saying it are the "right" skin color. Same with gays and the word 'queer,' which I assume was invented because heteros (or latent gays) opposed to homosexuality thought they were weirdos. If a gay person feels empowered to use a homophobic slur as their calling card, I really am speechless, but it is what it is. As a woman, I don't like the word 'bitch' but occasionally use it to refer to a woman who is an asswipe jerk. But I am not comfortable with the casual usage and I don't like it when men use it as a gender-specific putdown. Maybe I am contradicting myself. Oh well...

hmmm...

no comment

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liponeer: I totally knew what the authors meant. I
> just don't buy it and it's only my opinion;
> results may vary. I believe that everything has an
> energy; a vibration. The word '@#$%&' and 'flower'
> sound and feel different to me. When I hear people
> call each other the N-word it sounds crass and
> ignorant, even if the people saying it are the
> "right" skin color. Same with gays and the word
> 'queer,' which I assume was invented because
> heteros (or latent gays) opposed to homosexuality
> thought they were weirdos. If a gay person feels
> empowered to use a homophobic slur as their
> calling card, I really am speechless, but it is
> what it is. As a woman, I don't like the word
> 'bitch' but occasionally use it to refer to a
> woman who is an asswipe jerk. But I am not
> comfortable with the casual usage and I don't like
> it when men use it as a gender-specific putdown.
> Maybe I am contradicting myself. Oh well...


Words just rub people the wrong way and different ways. I think the energy or vibration with them is all about context or the way things were written or said. "Have a nice day" can be a nice thing to say to someone, unless you pissed off the grocery store clerk and they were being 100% sarcastic about it. That would be something you'd pick up by tone or "vibration" and make you feel different too. Picking out words to be offended about is just flawed. The "Have a nice day" cashier would be more offensive then the guy holding the door open for you as he walks in talking on a cellphone saying the N-word. I've noticed it depends where you are too whether it's acceptable or makes your head turn. People are used to hearing it at 7/11 downtown but at Starbucks which is full of business people and students on laptops.. you'll get a dirty look.

The n-word doesn't bother me but then I used to listen to rap in the 90's and was already immune to it. But there are some comedians on HBO who use it in a way that it's actually funny. No bad vibes there.

A gay person calling themselves fag or queer is kind of like an overweight person calling themselves fat. Supposedly it shows that the name doesn't "offend" you and you're taking it as a compliment. Nerd and Geek used to be "offensive" words and now people use that as a compliment too. It's all the same to me.


I hate the word "ignorant". It's just so overused and used more as an insult. For the most part, it means being "uneducated" about something. It seems appropriate to call someone "ignorant" who thinks that there's nothing wrong with going to Dunkin Donuts for breakfast every morning and has Mcdonalds a few times a week. They might think it's just fine for them because they're not overweight because they're not looking at the bigger picture of diet. I can see using the word ignorant in that sense. But when someone doesn't agree that 100% raw is best, they're also called "ignorant". Even if you're "educated" on the subject but don't come to the same conclusion as someone else, then they turn around and say you are "ignorant" simply because you disagree.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, I never understand calling people "Ignorant" for words they use. What does really using the N word, racial slurs, the F word or Bitch have to do with education level? Are their classes in college that teach you not to use it? LOL. Why don't they just call it political correctness or something else?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2010 07:08PM by BackAgain.

Words have power but over who and in what way you just never know. And everyone is different to.
I dislike the word "retarded" to mean something silly or disfunctional or as an expletive. I try to not use it in casual conversation as it still has an emotional impact for some people even though I would never mean it in reference to a differently abled person and even though the politically correct terminology to denote that changes often. It's still a hot button word IMO.

I also refrain from using the word G_d, as in OMG, I say gosh instead. You just never know who that is going to offend and I don't need to have what I say overshadowed by the emotional reaction someone may have to my casual use of that word. Then again, I don't use words like Ohm out of context either (did you know there is a shampoo with that name? Really, there is).

These are choices I make about how I utilize language, I don't expect others to observe the same rules at all and I'm not offended when they don't. I struggled as a teen and young woman with feeling as though I couldn't properly convey my thoughts and emotions clearly verbally so I because more conscious of what I was saying and how. I still struggle with this, I'm sure it will be a life long effort.

BackAgain: Do you "hate" the word ignorant or disagaree with its usage? The way I have heard it described: ignorance is the IGNORING of the truth. You can be well-educated and still be ignorant. A person can have a high IQ and still be ignorant because knowledge and wisdom are two difference things. Yes, I think it sounds ignorant (as in low-class and uneducated) for someone to use a lot of profanity in public and I consider the N-word to be profane. When Richard Pryor used it, he was a social commentator and the context was to point out the differences between various groups and our attitudes therein. It was because he was so brilliant that he got away with it. There are Black comics today who just don't have that wit and they think using profanity is automatically funny and they just come off sounding crass. Their use of the N-word is more shock value than social commentary and I am not impressed with that at all. And yes, I find most rap lyrics I have read to be ignorant. The subject matter of sex (on a base level), unabashed greed, violence, and degradation makes me feel sorry for the young people who are inflicted with this garbage. I know there are conscious rappers, but I haven't come across them and the beat is very low-vibration stuff. There is even a theory that this is by design to keep people dumbed down and I don't doubt it. When you think back to the greatest popular music: The Beatles, Joni Mitchell, early Elton John,Bob Dylan, Cat Stevens, etc. and listen to the beautiful melodies and poetic lyrics, the difference is night and day and why many teens and people in their 20s listen to "classic rock."

By the way, I found it interesting that sh*t was censored and bitch is allowed. Things that make ya go hmmm...

I'm also mildly irritated by the word "ignorant" being misused, because it's a significant concept. Like what you say, I take ignorance to be a lack of awareness. It's not a measure of what society (as I see it) calls "intelligence", which is how much you resemble a calculator (how swiftly you consult and repeat trivia).

Words are word's worth. People having sympathetic private experiences (communication), use these clumsy symbols to approximate what they are thinking. A word said sarcastically is being used to express a very different meaning than one said sincerely.

I think that calling yourself an insulting word (in sarcasm) is reactionary. It's resentment. When it is used in anger while you are being defensive, it is an expression of confidence. It grounds the negativity being directed at you.

The cruelty is no longer fun if the person being insulted doesn't become insulted.

After that period passes though (the bully sees there is no more fun to be had), it is no longer healthy to keep clinging to the resentment.

Gays using the word "queer" are using it as a rallying cry, I think. Because, the bully boys are not done being mean calling people queer. I suspect bitch in the title of the book is being used that way, to keep the fight fresh in one's consciousness. If it's used in a context where there is no fight going on, then it is misplaced.

liponeer:

<< When it is used in anger while you are being defensive, it is an expression of confidence. It grounds the negativity being directed at you.>>

this is very interesting. i think i do follow what you mean to some degree but i think there is a lot of gradations between being :

1) angry
2) defensive
3) confident

You used all three of these in the same vibrational plane. I think that anger and defensiveness go hand in hand. However, as for the latter term you used, I think that instead of confidence, there may be a sort of angry "resigning" that prejudices and biases will not be changed overnight so the individual resorting to this sort of pejorative self name calling may still be doing this in an act of defensiveness as well in order to avoid or lessen the charge of the abuse. In other words, if someone is constantly called "stupid" and this label is consistently directed against that person, the person who calls him or herself "stupid" is not done in a form of confidence but done so in order to deflect the fact that this label is harmful. I think it takes an extremely confident person to face the prejudice head on, address it, and actually transform it in a level headed, non sarcastic manner. To have the ability and the boldness to look at the prejudice with unflinching clarity takes an enormous amount of strength. I agree with just about every aspect that people have stated above ( both sides) because I am capable of seeing those sides in a certain light but I am extremely impressed by those who do not absorb pejorative terms simply because it is the status quo to do so but instead insist on being addressed with a much higher term of dignity. I rarely see this being challenged. Until it is challenged, calling oneself in pejorative terms is to continue to be underneath the heel of abuse in the cloak of confidence. This engenders the status quo of hatred. I am not sure how to go about changing these things but words are never words. They have power and those who have the ability to say " this is wrong" and " this is the way I would like to be addressed" has more guts than the average joe/jane. The person who has the ability to do this without anger is truly confident. They are the ones who are able to break the trance and who are the visionaries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 10:53AM by la_veronique.

I also believe that those who use harmful terms towards others and self do so out of pain. To have compassion towards others and self is the way to break the trance. If someone is called "stupid" because of their inability to spell properly, they could say " I can appreciate that you have mastered the skill of spelling and thus consider yourself intelligent. That must be a nice feeling. I have that nice feeling too but not because I am able to spell. I guess we both have our areas of strength and weaknesses. I am hungry. Would you like to join me for lunch?"

This is true confidence as well as compassion. People who are capable of doing this consistently know that they are immortal.

To be truly centered enough to sincerely be capable of serving love in the face of hate is to be in a place of infinite freedom.

I think that some people are able to do this some of the time but rarely all of the time. I also think that ANY time this is done is to raise the vibrational field of the earth plane in general. This is the way that transformation takes place. Parents do this on a daily basis. People who have lived in extremely adverse circumstances have sometimes been forced to adopt this mentality just to survive and maintain dignity. Great leaders have been forged from transforming their "victimhood" to self mastery. These are leaders with true power. The very opposite of what Hitler was. These are the people that have been and continue to individually, quietly and consistently raise the energy of this planet into what it was meant to be. Everyone recognizes that love is the true language of their soul and what they really are. All else is illusory.

the olive tree
it told me so
it rains olives
on the dark soil

the olives are ripe
they always are when they fall to the ground
they always r when they f t t ground

Very nice, LaVeronique.

I was on a bus this summer when a tragedy almost occurred. A Hispanic man who was drinking alcohol called a young Black teen male the N-word. The teen lunged towards this idiot and luckily his friend held him back. I was in the back of the bus in abject terror because of well-publicized shootings in Chicago recently. The two of them went back and forth and finally the instigator left the bus (he actually told the young man that he would pay him $50 to kick his ass and the boy kicked his ass off the bus, LOL). Does that teen most likely use the N-word amongst his peers? I don't doubt it. But just let someone from outside the community do it and it's fighting words. Using the word didn't empower him one bit. The older man could have had a gun! Perhaps he was just looking for an excuse to employ "self-defense." I like the comment about using these slurs towards each other as a lack of awareness. That is what I was grasping at in my definition of 'ignorant.'

I have read her book.

I need a kinder, gentler approach to my food and lifestyle. I have put myself down and talked to myself the way they do in their book quite enough over my lifetime.

In all honesty it sounds like some of the talk I have seen on Pro-Ana sites.
It was a turn off for me.

DaisyHair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read her book.
>
> I need a kinder, gentler approach to my food and
> lifestyle. I have put myself down and talked to
> myself the way they do in their book quite enough
> over my lifetime.
>
> In all honesty it sounds like some of the talk I
> have seen on Pro-Ana sites.
> It was a turn off for me.

LOL- we got off on such a tangent that when you said you read her book, I had no idea who you were talking about!

A friend shared this on FB. I can't watch it myself with my dreadfully slow dial up connection but thought I'd share it with you since it seemed to pertain to this discussion. I hope so anyhow! Sorry if not...

[www.facebook.com]