I have an autoimmune thyroid problem. I currently take levothyroxine for it. I believe there are various other treatments in America which are not licensed over here!!! I have researched this area fairly extensively if you want to pm me.

Hi flipperjan,

I'm so surprised you have a thyroid problem. You're really an inspiration to be running 20 miles with a thyroid problem!

I'm hoping to have the tests soon. If they come out positive, I'll definitely be sending you a PM.

Thanks!

Thanks suncloud - I do battle the tiredness most of the time but if I give up I would never get off the sofa. It's my sanity!!

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...if I give up I would never get off
> the sofa. It's my sanity!!

Lol Flipper, yeah, I hear ya!

I've been kind of lax on my own running the past couple of weeks, but I think I'll be back to running today.

flipperjan, what are the symptoms? I have had a mild version of that, I think, with my body hair growing slower (three days beard looked like one day before), but I have recovered almost completely now, using Brazilian nuts, walnuts and iodine supplement. I have not noticed any other symptoms, so maybe you will give me an idea what to look for.

Thanks for the supportive words guys regarding me and Hashimoto's.

I have been on a tear today reading about lectins in food. I don't remember how I got into it, but boy am I glad I did. I am 90% convinced lectins cause autoimmune disease, including Hashimoto's. They are glycoproteins that attach to cell receptor sites on cell surfaces - and there are tons of them, each specific to different sites (or several sites at once, some lectins are very large molecules) on cell surfaces. They can do anything. They are not recognized by the immune system until they affect a cell, in which case if a type of cell is affected negatively, repeatedly, by the same lectins, the immune system may begin to recognize the human cells as "bad" and cause the respective autoimmune disease by recognizing cell surface sugars that have not been altered, simply by being on the same cell as the altered area. This explains why when people radically change diets, to almost any other diet, they usually get better, at least for a little while. They are changing their staple foods. Even better if they go on a low lectin diet, such as raw or paleo or low carb. And best if they, by happenstance, eliminate the specific lectins thad had been bothering them.

One possible mechanism: One lectin can open the door in the small intestine by binding with those cells and stripping mucus or causing them to clump together or any of a number of mechanisms, thus letting in larger particles and more lectins to circulate freely. If one type of cell has a certain type of receptor site on its surface, some lectins may bind with that preferentially to other cell types, causing problems in specific organs including eventually autoimmunity problems.

It's just amazing how this all fit together today.
So it seems a lot of foods that are edible raw are relatively low in lectin, but not all. Beans and grains are by far the highest, with soybeans having the very largest amounts of mildly harmful lectins. Nightshades seem to have a fair amount as well. Not all lectins are "bad" though. Tomatoes contain one that binds to receptors on the surfaces of specific eye-infecting bacteria causing them to clump together and preventing them from binding to human cells (and infecting them). So a tomato slice eye-patch works well for (some types of?) pink-eye. And exorphins are often lectins (often plant-based compounds like endorphins, that do the same things).

So, anyway... I am going low-lectin and rotating my staples to prevent any one group of lectins from rampaging. I hope it heals my Hashimoto's, and that the autoimmunity isn't permanent. I think very often it isn't though. Our bodies learn pretty well how to recognize "self" during low-(bad)lectin infancy, so maybe there's a chance it will normalize.

I would be surprised if this wasn't in the news within the next 5 years as the newfound cause of autoimmunity.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2010 04:18AM by celastrus.

rab - autoimmune thyroid disorders are NOT, I repeat NOT caused by iodine deficiency - infact it may be counter productive to suddenly take extra doses of iodine supplements and send the immune system haywire.

Thyroid disorders caused by low iodine are common all over the world but not so much in the US. There most of the thyroid problems are auto immune - and so far I have not found a reason for that - but it seems fairly obvious that 'modern' living has got a lot to do with it. Maybe it's pollution, previous drugs that one may have taken (and I mean prescription here or the lectins that Celastrus is mentioning above.

In the uk it's one very simple blood test to find out how your thyroid is and if there are any antibodies in the blood (autoimmune situation)

Rab - My symptoms were and still are to a degree: extreme exhaustion (but I also had very low ferritin levels which also leave one exhausted) dry skin, cold feet and hands in the winter and generally feeling the cold loads more than usual, the inability to eat as I used to due to rapid weight gain, hair falling out - although I would say it still grows as fast.

I think it's dodgy to try and self diagnose - these symptoms could be all manner of things - it's easy to read a post like this and think - I've got that.

Celastrus - my doctor says he has never heard of autoimmune disease being reversed. I still live in hope though - maybe you could start another thread about this or pm please. I would like to know which foods to rotate and leave out etc. I'll give anything that sounds reasonable to me a go

Suncloud - sorry for the hi-jack of your post.

flipperjan, thanks.
I don't think I have any of those symptoms, my only symptom is slow growing hair, and that has improved. I thought I caused it when I started raw food by eating dark greens raw in larger quantities (kale, collard green) in smoothies. I have since stopped eating those completely, and also got in the habit of eating a few Brazilian nuts or walnuts every day. This should have helped with selenium.

By the way, I am sure that there is a way to cure autoimmune disease. Have you tried fasting on water and berries? I would start with a week of that - but I am not an expert, so probably nobody should rely on what I say. Still, we all need cleansing, and sometimes it has to be more dramatic than for others.

Best wishes to you, with your recovery.

Rab - I think from what I read that fasting might very well be the answer. However because of my condition it needs to be medically supervised with regular blood tests etc. I think it would need to be at least 3 weeks long and I just can't do that at home with my family. I am hoping one day that I might have the time and money to go somewhere where I can get the necessary support.

Thank you for your concern

Working on building up the adrenal glands if the key with autoimmune diseases, they help the adrenals produce the immunemodulating corticosteroids that prevent the overproduction of low affinity autoantibodies.

You have to watch not take too much iodine with hashimotos also as it can really aggrevate the disease.

flipperjan, please don't apologize. I find this discussion absolutely fascinating, and extremely helpful for me personally!

I'm also very appreciative for celastrus's posts. Given the information presented by celastrus and flipperjan, it's definitely worthwhile for me to go for further tests to see if I have some kind of thyroid problem.

I haven't consumed any iodized salt for probably over 40 years. And for most of that time, I didn't eat fish of seaweed either. I don't always practice what I preach, and until recently, I only ate maybe 2 - 4 sheets of nori per week (during the last couple of years or so). I mean, really, why wouldn't I have hypothyroidism, if such a thing exists?

I probably wouldn't be considering this at all if it weren't for the wonderful people on this forum! Geez. Live and learn.

I have a question for flipperjan and celastrus. Do you have food sensitivities? Are there certain foods that always seem to cause flare-ups for you?

Celastrus, did you read "The China Study?" Campbell talks about a very possible connection between milk consumption and autoimmune disorders. Milk has lectin. Also, it seems that a person's blood type has something to do with which lectins will bind. I wish you luck, and if your recent discovery doesn't cure you, I hope you'll keep trying and keep us posted!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2010 06:59AM by suncloud.

Flipperjan as per the adaptogens you were asking jiaogulan and licorice root are good choices for hashimotos.

Building your adrenals up with rich vitamin C and vitamin B5 foods also.

I found my results and remembered it was asked what they were.
I used mymedlab.


Total Cholesterol: 302
LDL: 243
T. Chol/HDL Ratio: 7.0
Triglycerides: 82
HDL Cholesterol: 43
VLDL Cholesterol Cal: 16

This was after some raw, but before lots of raw, and before vegan. Also before real exercise. But, even for a SAD, sedentary person (which I wasn't) the total cholesterol is in the ridiculous range, and my reading about Hashimoto's and hypothyroid led me to understand that low thyroid hormones can do this regardless of diet.

That said, I am more and more convinced that a low-lectin very high raw diet could be helpful with the hypothyroid and maybe even cure Hashimoto's. I'm seriously considering doing 100% raw like on the "Simply Raw" movie and seeing my blood ratios and antibodies after a month of that.

Also, Mercola just did an article on Cholesterol that was very interesting. I don't agree with him on all points, but I do think that article was well backed-up.

Hi celastrus. Thank you for your information. I hope you're successful! Please keep us posted.

I'm still waiting to hear from my doctor about getting tested for low thyroid.

A question: Do you have problems with high-iodine foods? I've read that people with Hashimoto's can have problems with iodine. But then another person wrote that he only had problems with iodine supplements. What's your experience - if any - with iodine-high foods like kelp?

Woo, this thread is totally fascinating! Guys! So much interesting information I don't even know where to start!

One thing I can say is that I certainly hope blood type lectin connection isn't that important. I am O-neg, supposed to eat meat, dairy, grains etc. YUCK!

Hi Coco. It sure seems like every person, regardless of their blood type, should be able to "love animals, don't eat them!"

I don't go along with that eat right for your blood group stuff at all. I am 'o' as well coco and I am not s'posed to eat avocados. Yeah right!!!

Or celery. Or sunflower seeds.

Durianrider, you there?

I finally had some extra time to wait for all the video pauses (due to connection problems), and I watched your entire blood test video.

Interesting. I had so many similar results. For example, my protein was 66. Yours was 68. The protein for bodybuilders is 67 (according to your Anabolic Reference Guide). In my case, certainly not bad for nearly 24 years vegan and probably 99.99999....% raw during those years.

I kind of think though that if the Anabolic Reference Guide says the bodybuilders' protein count is 67, then maybe we could just conclude that high blood protein does not a bodybuilder make, since 67 is not high up within the scale of the safe range. US safe range is 59 - 84 (according to my paperwork), and the UK (or Aussie?) safe range is 65 - 85 (according to your paperwork).

My sodium was 136. Yours was 136. (Here, the range is 133 - 145). I never eat salt.

My potassium was 4.3. Yours was 4.0. (Range here, 3.3 - 5.1). I eat lots of bananas (homegrown), nearly everyday.

My chloride was 104. Yours was 100. (Range here, 96 - 108)

OK. Cholesterol. Your cholesterol score really didn't tell me much. Is your score a ratio of total cholesterol/HDL? If so, mine is very low compared to yours. Mine is 2.71 and yours is 4.7. And yet, my LDL is above the ideal range. My low 2.71 ratio is because of the high HDL, which is good.

It might be interesting, and much more informative to know how your cholesterol numbers break down into HDL, LDL, and trigycerides. Your 4.7 is actually above the range for average risk (<4.5), at least here in the US, if it's measured the same way. (I noticed calcium and blood glucose have a completely different scale here in the US).

I have one other question. Shouldn't you have mentioned on your video that you have B12 injections? Seems a little misleading to point out your high B12 count and credit it only to a vegan diet. People can be misled like that, although maybe it wasn't intentional.

On B12, yes, it's true that most people with a B12 deficiency have absorption problems. That's because most people are meateaters and so they're not going to have a dietary deficiency. Not the case for vegans. My own B12 deficiency was cured by using B12 oral supplements (after 15 years vegan with no overt B12 source). Of course, this might not be the case for everyone. My food/water/lifestyle is very organic, and my health is very good (as far as I know).

My doctor gave the OK for a lab test for hypothyroid...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2010 12:53AM by suncloud.

Hi. I have been a lurker here for awhile and stumbled on this thread. I have Hashimoto's as well and possibly thyroid cancer - I am waiting on the dr and results. I started raw as a way to heal my thyroid or at least combat the negative effects. I too take thyroid medicine but it wasn't doing anything for me. My thyroid problem is hereditary and exacerbated by my last pregnancy. I also have a goiter. I have felt better after going raw.

Thanks for the info on lectins, that was one thing I haven't come across in all my research. Sorry, suncloud, to hijack the thread, just wanted to chime in as another one trying to combat their thyroid issues with a raw diet. Most likely my cholesterol is high as well, something else the raw diet should help with.

Suncloud - I'm so happy for you that your thyroid test came out ok - great news

reina have you looked into your iodine levels, if you have goiter low levels of iodine can be one of the causes. During pregnancy your iodine needs are much higher obviously feeding for 2.

look into seaweed and your iodine levels it could be a big help.

I'm pretty sure the goiter was caused by Hashimoto's. I am also pretty sure I am not deficient in iodine. I live in America and was on a standard SAD diet throughout the pregnancy. However, is there an easy way to test iodine levels? Just curious.

Ahh i didnt know you had hashimotos, apart from blood test theres not really other accurate method and even then blood test levels can be wrong.

Reina, I hope you're OK, and that you'll keep us posted on the results of your tests. From my own experience, I'm personally convinced that a varied and nutritionally sufficient raw food vegan diet has enormous healing advantages over any other diet. Just a theory, but I think a raw food diet can assist the body's compensating mechanisms to function more efficiently. I hope you continue to feel better!

I'm personally not aware of a test that specifically measures whether or not you're getting enough iodine in your diet. My understanding is that if you have hypothyroidism and you don't have Hashimoto's, then a lack of dietary iodine is one likely cause (I'm still just learning, so maybe someone else has better info). But it seems to me that if you were using iodized salt and/or eating seafoods, then your thyroid problems probably didn't come from a lack of iodine. Good luck with your tests!

Hi flipperjan,

Thank you(!), but what I actually meant was that my doctor approved my request to get tested. I had my test yesterday ($32.00, not bad), but I won't have results until sometime next week.

However the test turns out, it seems that more regular consumption of a small amount of iodine-rich foods is having a really significant effect - for the better - on my ability to eat greens and vegetables. This vegetable thing has been plaguing me for nearly 20 years. But since I added more iodine-rich foods, I've recently been able to eat greens almost everyday, with only a minimum of the fatigue, edema, etc. that they used to bring on. For now though, I've cut out all cruciferous veggies and flax, because I've read that they inhibit iodine absorption.

Of course, I realize we're not all the same. I've read that iodine can irritate the thyroid for people with Hashimoto's. I don't know if that's just iodine supplements or iodine-rich foods too. Flipperjan, would you or Reina or Celastrus care to share your experience/opinion on this?

Looks like this thread has morphed into a thyroid investigation. And that's OK for sure, if people are interested. I am!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2010 08:57PM by suncloud.

Thanks for the well wishes! My husband is military so the referral process is taking forever.

I personally avoid too much iodine because I have heard the same thing. I also avoid cruciferous veggies and too many almonds or flax because both of those can be goitergenic. Soy is a major no-no but obviously not eating that right now either.

As far as causes for hypothyroid, I know mine is hereditary. I had hypothyroid for about three years before the Hashimoto's flared up after an intense hyper episode following the birth of my latest child. Selenium is supposedly a good thing for those with thyroid problems - brazil nuts are a good vegan source.

Suncloud, I hope your tests turn out ok. Thyroid issues are medically expensive and just a daily pain.

You have to watch if you have hashimotos and taking iodine as it can aggrevate the condition.

goitrogens can be destroyed via cooking after about 10 minutes but because we are eating raw its good that you are watching the goitrogenic containing foods.