I have been putting Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in my water. Is this okay?

first why are you doing that?

why do you put it in your water?

liver cleanse, HCL, digestion?...

It is supposed to cleanse you, make your skin clear and help your metabolism, among other things.

[www.bragg.com]

I don't know how to make this an active link, but you can cut and paste this.

Apple Cider Vinegar is good for you!

When I first went raw, I used Braggs ACV because back then I thought it was a health food. I would use it to make my salad dressings. However, as I learned about the toxicity of the acetic acid in vinegar (and Bragg's is 5% acetic acid), I started using lemons to make my salad dressings.

If you want to read about acetic acid toxicity, check out this link.

Bragg lived a long time. I enjoy his book on Fasting.

I appreciate the viewpoint and response, but anything taken in massive quantities will be toxic. We're talking about 1 or 2 tablespoons per 34oz. bottle of water. It is supposed to be good for you in this way, but I was concerned that it might adversely affect pH or something else.????

From Dr Graham FAQ:

Can I use vinegar in my salad dressing?

Vinegar is diluted acetic acid, commonly known to be a poison in its pure form. Acetic acid stimulates the thyroid gland to pull phosphorous from the adrenal glands to negate the effects of acetic acid in the system. Depleted phosphorous results in impaired function of the adrenal glands and thus the entire endocrine system. The outcome of all this can include body odor, pains in the heart, rapid pulse, increased mucous production, and headaches. Repetitive use will also result in hardening of the liver.

Why are you quoting a quack Dr. Like Douglas Graham? I have serious issues with him and his credibility and take everything he says with a grain of salt. In fact, I have met people that were totally turned off by his attitude at conferences and spoke about how defensive he became when people questioned things about his books. Just based on this why would I, or anyone else want to trust his advise when folks like the Braggs, who are all living great, long lives said something to the contrary?

As I told D Graham, jerk extraordinaire, on a list we belonged to I would take his advice when he lives longer than the people that came before him.

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

hey Marcos,

if may ask: im curious to how old you are? e-mail me if you want

I kinda know what you mean about Graham, (except the jerk part)
I've met him at lectures at various rawfood festivals. He is very much natural hygienish, and advocates a high fruit/low fat/protien diet. And he does make alot of sense when he talks about most stuff (I disagreed with a few key things), yet I saw alot of pooh-poohing of other people with different ideas by him. He even got really frusterated at a scientific panel with Gabriel Cousens, Victoras Kulvinskas and David Wolfe... and yelled a bit about how the rawfood movement needed to grow up!! It was hillarious

Marcos,

Interesting your choice of words. Rather than discuss the merits of what Graham has to say, you found it necessary to judge him as a person, to belittle his character so that your point will have more merit. While I might not agree with some of the the advice of some raw proponents and I'm happy to point out flaws in things I might have a disagreement with, I certainly have nothing to say about whether this person is a "good" or "bad" person.

The thing about pointing a finger at people is that there are three finger pointing back at the person doing the pointing.

Bryan,

You've obviously never belonged to an email list that Douglas Graham was on or you'd realize why I said what I did. He's not a very nice man and that's the key. He has a huge ego and believes that his word is it. I have a big problem with this and have no respect for anyone that acts this way. When someone gives supposed advice they had better be able to back it up or atleast point out some great references. One of the small issues I'm having with you is that I see you doing the same thing here but you're a much nicer person than Doug Graham. That is you make a statement as if you know it to be true rather than stating "it is my opinion that". None of us can know everything and I know you are on a different path than many of us but to come here and put down many of the foods and/or supplements folks take because "you think it's wrong" but don't say that it is your opinion is misleading. Doug Graham does the same thing but I lost all respect for him when I saw him get verbally defensive with a meeting attendee a few years ago. That woman, and everyone in that session, lost all respect for Doug Graham the person. Guess what, I was there. Case made.

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Marcos,

Actually, my personal experience with supplements and various forms has cleansing has shown me that depending on those external "health" aids pales in health improvement when compared with making long term lifestyle and diet changes. Since quitting the supplements, superfoods, and cleanses, and focusing instead on eating a low fat raw vegan diet with plenty of rest, sleep, sunshine, lowered stress, exercise, etc, my health has soared.

As for my personal experience with Doug Graham, I've been going to hear him speak on several occasion. In 2002 I saw him speak at Raw Passion in Sebastopol, CA. That same year I saw him speak at the Portland International raw festival. In 2003 I saw him speak at Rawstock I. In 2004 I saw him speak at Rawstock II. In 2005 I saw him speak at Rawstock III. This year I saw him speak at the Healthful Living International symposium in Long Beach, at the Fig Party in Sebastopol, and at the Vibrant Living Expo in Fort Bragg. I also went to his Raw Nutritional Science course offered before the Expo. So I have much experience with seeing him in person, and the Raw Nutritional Science course was 16 hours long. At this years Expo, his talks were among the ones with highest attendance.

It is my experience that he is very knowledgable about the subject of achieving a high level of health on the raw diet. Of all the proponents of raw that I have seen, he appears to be among the healthiest of the ones that I have seen. I have interacted with him during the various talks that I've attended, and I like his energy and the way he presents the material. I did see the panel in Portland where he was a bit argumentative with some of the other raw proponents, but since then he has softened his approach. I have never heard him badmouth another raw proponent even though he may disagree with what they have to say. Between myself and my girlfriend, we own almost all of his audio-visual materials, and I own all of his books and I have preordered his 80-10-10 book.

Of all the raw proponents, he is the only one who doesn't sell consumable products like superfoods, enzymes, cleanses, and supplements. This is where most raw proponents make the bulk of their money. He sells educational material and his services only. None of his products have repeatable income (that is, you don't buy his products month after month for the rest of your life like the other folks sell).

There is a lot of misinformation and disinformation out in the raw foods field. Misinformation is information that a person believes, but is incorrect. Disinformation is also incorrect information, but the difference is that the person sharing the disinformation knows that the information is incorrect, but shares it anyways because the profit or gain from sharing it. It is people like Doug Graham that have given me information that has freed me from this mis/dis-information, and allowed me to achieve an excellent level of health without having to buy products other than food for the rest of my life.

I'm beginning to be sorry I asked, as it seems to be stirring up a little animosity between people that should be supporting each other. I respect and take seriously the comments of each person, and consider them all in coming to my own personal conclusion, as we all must. Thank you to each of you for your insights. I've learned alot.

Well, since you are both Natural H'ers then I suspect you are of the same mindset. I have seen him get angry when people ask him simple questions. I have seen it at conferences and on message boards. I don't take anything that he says at the gospel. Just because he says it doesn't make it so. If you want to believe that then it's your perogative.

As for the information he sells, well, it is shady at best. I've read a few of his books and seen people ask his questions and found him quite defensive over simple questions. That said, why would I pay him for his expertise, or lack thereof.

On another note, I have seen many raw foodist speakers come to seminars and try to sell their products. Some of these products are good and some are bad. I've made it a practice to not buy anything without researching it. David Wolfe, who by no means is a nutritionist or expert on food, was completely against supplements of any kind until a few years ago when he and his partners discovered a money making opportunity. We live in a free-enterprise society and anyone can make a success of themselves if they choose. However, to create income from misleading people is quite reprehensible to me. For this reason I will not support NFL or any of their websites. I get up and leave the room when any of them come out to speak. I do the same thing with D. Graham. I don't need to hear what he says because he is unwilling to listen to me. Therefore, it is very important for everyone living this lifestyle to use the grocery store method. Take what you need and leave the rest behind.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

It's OK, Rooneymuldooney! They go at it like this all the time. At first I wished they'd "take it outside" (or at least to private e-mailing). But, then I realized that we really do get to hear "both sides of the coin" and then come to our own conclusions.

I realize that the "negative vibes" can feel pretty disturbing on an otherwise very positive site. I would say "Just Let It Go" and realize that they are probably just like two male deer - locking antlers and havin' fun! I vote - Let'm rumble!


Life Is Good!

alive!

Marcos,

While I think you a great person and your presence is a blessing here on the board, I'm not sure I would listen to your health advice, especially when it comes to diet, as your diet and lifestyle has led you to suffer from parasites. I know a lot of people eating mostly fruits and greens, and none of them have parasites and need cleanse like you seem to need. I have swum in waters that have been know to have giardia, and have used tap water (brushing my teeth) in places known to have parasites in their water (Thailand and Mexico), and I have never come down with parasites.

Now if I were to eat your diet and have your lifestyle, I too would need the parasite cleanses like you need them. And I agree with what you say, that a lot of raw foodists have parasites. The parasites don't come from exposure alone, but from the state of health of the body that has been exposed to parasites.

So you're at a talk with Doug Graham, and you start talking about your lifestyle habits that allow parasites to thrive in your body (until you kill them with a cleanse). Should people be be thrilled to listen to you and follow your lifestyle advice?

There is one raw proponent, Frederic Patenaude, who was having troubles with his raw diet. Even after he wrote his Raw Secrets book, and gave up the fatty gourmet raw foods, he still had troubles, in fact he quit being raw and quit being vegetarian. The person that brought Fred back into the raw world and showed him how to thrive on the raw diet was Doug Graham. Frederic wrote about this experience in a recent letter to the readers of his ezine.

To Rooneyandmuldoon,

It is my personal opinion that Bryan is correct in his assertion that lemon juice is better for you than apple cider vinegar. The Braggs are healthy I'm sure, but why use any kind of vinegar when you can use something so much more simple, cheap, and fresh, like a lemon (organic of course)? Both foods supply abundant enzymes and have qualities that will break up mucous accumulation; but vinegar is processed and bottled - lemons are straight from the tree. Just seems that when you can get pretty much the same results (IMO better results) from a more natural source, well then, why not? I bet it tastes a lot better too. Just a quarter lemon (or less) squeezed into a 34 oz bottle of water is very nice.

You might have noticed that the link you posted about apple cider vinegar is an advertisement from the Braggs' company. Advertisements are not always the best source of information. I'm not at all implying that the Braggs are dishonest - just that an advertisement is an advertisement. You might also consider that Dr. Bragg was not a confirmed vegetarian. This said, I personally have enjoyed his book, "The Miracle of Fasting" for many years.

Best wishes, -Ally



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2006 04:17AM by Ally.

I appreciate your advice. Actually though, the Bragg's ACV is raw. But I suppose it is more processed than plain lemon juice. The link I posted initially was actually one that took you directly to the pro's of ACV. Somehow it changed to an active link to their home page. Oh well. I don't know if lemon juice has the purported curative properties of ACV.

Bryan,

I don't think ACV has acetic acid, the predominant form of acid is malic acid.

rc

runnerchom,

Braggs ACV has acetic acid, based on the link that rooneyandmuldoon gave in his earier post above. Its concentration of acetic acid is no different that commercial white vinegar. From the Braggs website:

Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar
pH = 3.075
Concentration/Strength = 63 grain
Acetic Acid = 5.14 %
Potassium = 24mg/Tbsp. <2% DRV / RDI

By the way, perhaps there is more additional acids, the malic acid, than acetic acid in Braggs as you stated, making malic acid the predominant acid over the acetic acid. If this were true, perhaps Braggs is even more acidic and other vinegars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2006 06:35PM by Bryan.

Personally I prefer lemon juice to Apple Cider Vineger.

That said, I think in moderation it's fine.

I also think Doug Graham is somewhat obnoxious and very wrinkly but that is a bit off topic.