[www.30bananasaday.com]

...and begin chronic diarrhea! LOL--God I pray that those bananas are a month's worth...

Durian, in your link, you say, "Sweet fruit is the best health & vitality food. Cooked starches are next best. I like the best so I go for sweet fruits".

I know you've said before that you don't approve of a fruit-only diet (I don't either). So do you eat greens, or do you eat cooked grains? Or both? Or have you changed your mind, and now you are eating only fruit?

My own preferences are fruits and moderate portions of raw organic nuts/seeds. Cooked grains absolutely kill me, so I never ever ever ever eat them. Greens everyday are hard on my body, so I eat them moderately.

Chronic fatigue can occur for a number of reasons, adrenal gland dysfunction, low thyroid, various nutrient deficiencies, infection and much more.

I fail to see how your answer to every problem on this site is eat more carbs from sweet fruits. There is no one cure fits all for most ailments im afraid. I wish it was as easy as just stuffing myself with bananas and sweet fruit carbs then i wouldnt have suffered for 5 years with chronic fatigue syndrome.

That's your recommendation? Seriously? As someone who has suffered from chronic fatigue for most of my life, this thread is rather insulting.

Cute dog.

coeycoey,

My personal experience of chronic fatigue was that I got it from undersleeping and overworking for years, 20 years after college, but I suspect it started much before that. For me, I had to remove all forms of stimulation from my diet before my body allowed me to sleep soundly. This meant all those items that help digestion, that are in fact digestive stimulant, spices and condiments like vinegar, salt, pepper, chili, herbs, garlic, onions, etc.

When I finally could sleep deeply, I slept 16 to 18 hours a day, and did so for months until my body no longer needed that much sleep. Each month I slept I was able to reduce my sleep by 2 hours a night.

Chronic fatigue is a deep lack of sleep, which for me took 4 months of sleeping all I could, with all forms of stimulants out of my diet.

If you follow the diet and sleep pattern that durianrider proposes, odds are you will heal your chronic fatigue.

Prana,

As Powerlifer mentioned, their are numerous reasons for chronic fatigue. To suggest you know what caused mine without knowing anything about me is absolutely ridiculous. Laughable even.

Coey, as Prana mentioned it was his *personal* experience , not sure why you seem to think this thread is insulting

what is your personal experience with CFS? assuming you have tried all the above reccommendations what was the outcome? if you havent tried any of the above suggestions what are you currently doing to manage/cure your CFS?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Prana stated "If you follow the diet and sleep pattern that durianrider proposes, odds are you will heal your chronic fatigue."

This is baseless advice.

My chronic fatigue syndrome was caused by an iodine deficiency. The more raw I ate, the worse it got. Simply eating raw foods is not a cure all for all conditions.

yes he said *odds are* he never said it was a fact or that eating raw foods is a a cure all for all conditions

so after identifying your cause of CFS what did you do to cure it ?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Imagine you go to a Doctor and you say you have a pain in your stomach. Without knowing anymore information, he states "odds are that you need to drink some antacid." I don't know about you, but I would LMOA while I walked out of his office.

I consumed iodine to alleviate my deficiency.

actually i have found most doctors diagnosis./prognosis to be pretty much just that , hit and miss .

Did you use iodine from food sources or supplementation? im assuming also you are not raw vegan ? as you stated that raw vegan worsened your symptoms. I am curious what you ate as a raw vegan to worsen your symptoms as some folks here have mentioned cruciferous veggies as being linked to competeing with iodine uptake.

was the basis of your diet?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2010 11:59PM by Jgunn.

Suggesting a medication to mask symptoms versus suggesting someone eat wholesome food is very different. I am laughing at the comparison!

I did find it quite insulting also, it seems many think raw foods are a cure all for everything. Raw foods are great but there not always the full answer.

I hate this whole herbs are medicines/symptom supressors when alot of herbs such a nettle are ate as vegetables. Also if we class them as drugs/medicines then we must also class fruit and vegetables because they alter the bodies chemistry also, contain many of the same alkaloids/phytonutrients that give the fruits/veg there "medicinal properties" so its quite a fine line.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ME is a real serious illness that has killed people.
It is a misunderstanding to call normal fatigue CFS

CFS/ME is usually Mithcondrial failure, although there is some evidence to suggest the XMRV virus may be related in some cases.

My GP has done aresearch paper on CFS and mito failure

excerpt

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] “ATP profile” test is a powerful diagnostic tool and can differentiate patients who have fatigue and other symptoms as a result of energy wastage by stress and psychological factors from those who have insufficient energy due to cellular respiration dysfunction. The individual factors indicate which remedial actions, in the form of dietary supplements, drugs and detoxification, are most likely to be of benefit, and what further tests should be carried out.








There may be a number of reasons for mitochondrial failure some of the more serious ones are genetic and no amount of good diet will prevent it, there can be multiple organ failure and inability to utilise nutrients due too metabolic enzyme deficits, children with this can be born paralysed and retarded with multiple organ failures and will die before adult hood. There are over 60 different genetic mitochondrial diseases

Howver they are now finding that environmental poisoning causes mitochondrial failure from pesticides, or organo phosphates, mercury and other chemical poisoinig (hanah poling has mito disorder and was the first to win her case 2 years ago in court for MMR vaccine damage

I know someone who has severe organo phosphae poisoning and is bedridden and has multiple organ failure as a result.The body cannot always get rid of this kind of load

To put i into perspective not everything is curable with fruit, If you give a rat, rat poison, enough to kill or do harm and then detox it will not work,

Even animals in the wild eating natural diets can die from environmental poisons and pesticides in excess


I have mito failure and organ failure from pharmaceutical poisoning that I have not yet fully been able to resolve. However having said that I have found the higher the diet in fruit the better my health is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2010 11:29AM by Ariel55.

I forgot to say also prana, the items you listed arent CNS stimulants, theres a difference between digestive stimulants than CNS stimulants. CNS stimulants are the ones you want to avoid such as caffiene, theobromine and such as they deplete the adrenals.

good post ariel55.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suggesting a medication to mask symptoms versus
> suggesting someone eat wholesome food is very
> different. I am laughing at the comparison!

Iodine is not a medication. Iodine is naturally occurring in food, however over farming has lead to depleted iodine levels in soil which results in lower iodine levels in the food. I have read as many as 80% of vegans have an iodine deficiency.

[content.karger.com]

Taking iodine does not mask symptoms. It cures the deficiency and the symptoms.

I thought you were talking about a doctor suggesting an antacid, that's what the comparison was I was referring to, and unless your post was changed, that's what it said. I wasn't talking about iodine or herbs.

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> actually i have found most doctors
> diagnosis./prognosis to be pretty much just that
> , hit and miss .
>
> Did you use iodine from food sources or
> supplementation? im assuming also you are not raw
> vegan ? as you stated that raw vegan worsened your
> symptoms. I am curious what you ate as a raw
> vegan to worsen your symptoms as some folks here
> have mentioned cruciferous veggies as being linked
> to competeing with iodine uptake.
>
> was the basis of your diet?


I am always vegan, and I am 99% raw. What made it worse when I went raw was that many vegan foods have iodine such as nutritional yeast, nut milks, soy sauce, etc. I eliminated those and within a short period, I was very weak. A nutritionist friend of mine suggested iodine and after supplementing, I felt great. The only raw foods that I know of high in iodine are seaweed based foods. I don't particularly like the taste or smell, and there is a risk of mercury in many seaweed products. Plus, it is difficult to find quality seaweed products here.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you were talking about a doctor
> suggesting an antacid, that's what the comparison
> was I was referring to, and unless your post was
> changed, that's what it said. I wasn't talking
> about iodine or herbs.

I never changed my post and I never mentioned an antacid. Try quoting the post so people know to what you are referring.

CoeyCoey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine you go to a Doctor and you say you have a
> pain in your stomach. Without knowing anymore
> information, he states "odds are that you need to
> drink some antacid."



post quoted as requested

CoeyCoey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought you were talking about a doctor
> > suggesting an antacid, that's what the
> comparison
> > was I was referring to, and unless your post
> was
> > changed, that's what it said. I wasn't talking
> > about iodine or herbs.
>
> I never changed my post and I never mentioned an
> antacid. Try quoting the post so people know to
> what you are referring.



okay, i just did. and it was still there and my recitation was accurate. unless someone logged on as you, like a spouse?

If your chronic fatigue is actually due to severe adrenal fatigue, the 80-10-10 diet will not help you. Even Doug Graham has said this on his boards. I found it while searching for answers a year ago. I didn't save the link, maybe someone else can find it. I did the 80-10-10 diet for 3 months two summers ago when I had a lot of free time to rest and/or exercise as needed. I hadn't yet figured out my adrenal glands are what was causing me fatigue and problems coping with stress (this had been a serious problem for me for the last 30 years).

On the 80-10-10 diet I felt those light blissful states everyone talks about, but I was also very tired, both physically and mentally. Gentle walking exercise exhausted me. Right after drinking a nice fruit and greens smoothie, my energy would drop precipitously. I had been 100% raw vegan for 2.5 years prior to this experiment. On that diet I did not have improvements in my energy, but nor did I have these precipitous drops in energy.

I don't have this all figured out, but one reason I know for sure that the 80-10-10 diet was not good for me, is because people with severe adrenal fatigue do not produce enough of the hormone aldosterone. Aldosterone regulates the sodium-potassium levels in your body. If you do not make enough, you excrete sodium easily and retain potassium fiercely. By eating no salt on the 80-10-10 diet and tons of potassium, my electrolytes were severely out of balance.

I am now taking cortisol (a vegan hormone, bio-identical to one of the hormones the adrenal glands produce that allow you to tolerate stress and physical activity) and this has made a HUGE difference in my fatigue problem (I handle stress better and for the first time in decades can do some serious exercising). I have been taking it for a year now. There is no bio-identical pill to substitute for my lack of aldosterone, so I have to drink salt-water frequently to feel okay (I use sea salt). I am still in the process of learning what the symptoms are when my sodium is too low (this is called "hyponatremia" ), and how often I need to drink salt water to keep them at bay.

I am hoping to see if I can do a modified version of the 80-10-10, because I did enjoy the blissful feelings, and it just intuitively seems like a great diet (and Graham's book really sold me on it). I would like to try the 80-10-10, but add in the salt water and see if that works for me. I plan to try it next summer.

Anyway, I just wanted to contribute my experience to the discussion. If you have severe adrenal fatigue - you need salt! (I know this freaks many of you out, it freaked me out for a long time, but it is true...)

The problem with cortisol is that it actually atrophys and further weakens the adrenal glands making you dependent on taking it. Have you tried adaptogenic herbs which restore proper adrenal gland function, vitamin C from food sources and bee pollen for vitamin b5, the main 2 nutrients the adrenals need.

I was exactly the same as yourself mindy its horrible, but adaptogenic herbs saved me.

Powerlifer,

You've used herbs and supplements to heal various conditions. At this point, have you healed all or any conditions such that you no longer need herbs and supplements any longer, or is it going to be necessary for you to continue a regimen of supplementation and herbs forever?

Of course i no longer need to use any herbs, thats the great bit about adaptogens and many other nutritive/tonic herbs most arent needed long term.

Ill now and again do a course of liver herbs or bitters to keep my liver tip top incase ive partied abit hard, but after curing my severe adrenal fatigue i no longer need adaptogens or any other herb, my diet does the rest of the work these days. But at that severe point it was either cortisol or adaptogenic herbs.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CoeyCoey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Utopian Life Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I thought you were talking about a doctor
> > > suggesting an antacid, that's what the
> > comparison
> > > was I was referring to, and unless your post
> > was
> > > changed, that's what it said. I wasn't
> talking
> > > about iodine or herbs.
> >
> > I never changed my post and I never mentioned
> an
> > antacid. Try quoting the post so people know
> to
> > what you are referring.
>
>
>
> okay, i just did. and it was still there and my
> recitation was accurate. unless someone logged on
> as you, like a spouse?

You must be reading that out of context. I was pointing out how diagnoses with severely limited information is absurd, such as a doctor diagnosing without an examination.

Powerlifter,

Thank you. I can tell you understand, it has been horrible. I would be very interested in learning about the adaptogenic herbs you used. Would you mind giving that information in a post or if not, a private message? How much did you take? Will b5 supplements work as well as the bee pollen? How long did it take for you to notice a difference?


Mindy

Ariel,

Fascinating, and, also, I wish you continuing improvement in health

mindy,

I recently looked up what Dr. David Brownstein, of iodine therapy fame, is lately recommending, and I was surprised to see it's salts:

[www.drbrownstein.com]

The thing about 80/10/10 is that I think it's OK to deviate in the case of an acute serious disorder--there should be no reason you couldn't do it, and consume sea salt water and still benefit from the regimen. Good luck!