811 does not work for all? Yes, there are those who tried it and turned away from it due to various problems. Pretending that problems do not exist does not help. But attacking those who do experience problems does not help either. It would be good if those problems were discussed in a respectful and open manner. But where?


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Quite right Rawgosia. It would be really useful if we could explore this issue more. I think it's a shame when people react as if it's a personnal crititism when an aspect of a diet is questioned. I love the folk on here that respond with cool heads and useful references which enable us all to learn and/or dismiss facts as we feel fit.

Its like bike riding, the same people have the same problems. Too much money, too isolating, no where to ride, too cold/hot etc.

pborst, my views are a product of a life long study of everything, and I always try to simplify stuff. Often the true scientific information is buried below thousands of bad "studies" and "researches" usually funded by corrupted organizations, or done with prejudice. Often, these "studies" are very well written, convincing and reassuring, therefore it is time consuming to expose their true nature and average reader usually has hard time understanding right and wrong from these discussions. THAT IS WHY THOSE STUDIES EXIST in the first place.

I don't have time to deal with that, just as I don't have time now to go and quote different scientific information to you that confirms that fruit IS the best food. But it is, anyway.

rab,

I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I just don't know how you get from there to an uncategorical statement like we all know that a fruit-based diet is the best diet for everyone. To each their own.

Paul

Yes, I kwew when I was writing those words that you or someone else will dispute that. Still, I think that on this topic there are a number of people who agree with that statement, but I should have just used "most of us" or something like that.

Harley, what you says sounds nice and simple, but it is an oversimplification. Eating should not require the skills such as determination. It should be effortless. Blaming people for 811 not working for them is convenient, but it misses the point. If someone was told what to do, they did it and it did not work, then perhaps the person who told them what to do should be blamed?

Take this wonderful girl, for example. [www.youtube.com] She genuinely took 811 on board and it genuinely did not work for her. I think that she an exceptional individual, by the way. Exceptional in her ability to carry a lot on her shoulder while remaining beautifully inspiring.


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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2010 11:53PM by rawgosia.

I am starting to think that people here have an agenda against 80-10-10 - I wrote so many words explaining that it is not "written in stone", but somehow people still feel offended when someone advocates it. Maybe that is why durianrider is so defensive - all he gets are attacks, attacks. It gets old and tiring, I suppose.

You want to go back to "natural" food? Go watch Chimpanzees! They eat 80-10-10!

If you ask me - 80-10-10 is the best!

Yeah, the mere mention of eating 5 bananas on other boards results in attacks. It's pretty crazy.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am starting to think that people here have an
> agenda against 80-10-10 - I wrote so many words
> explaining that it is not "written in stone", but
> somehow people still feel offended when someone
> advocates it.

You gotta be kidding me. This is the most pro 80-10-10 raw vegan board you can find. The fact that some people here don't accept the 8-1-1 mantra as gospel does not negate the fact that most critics of 8-1-1 here are in the minority. Prana, Utopian Life, Rawgosia, Tamukha, and others all practice and defend either 8-1-1- or some variation of a fruit based diet. I'm not even counting Harley (Durianrider) since he is something of a freeagent.

Harley likes to attack, stay negative,make accusations. If that is what eating all of that fruit sugar does to you, then I want no part of it. Here is an example. [goneraw.com] Harley Johnstone: "Chubby raw authors like David wolfe, Karen Knowler, Victoria Boutenko, Shazzie, Paul Nison etc are all lovely people but when it comes to controlling their weight or having energy to be active? perhaps these people are not the best to take advice from"


Really, Harley. Karen's chubby and shouldn't be giving advice on weight loss? I don't think so [www.google.com]


Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 04:38PM by pborst.

I love fruit, true. I like to challenge stereotypes too.


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There are many people on this board that I've also noticed who are regulars who strongly advocate supplements (besides B12), herbs, seaweeds, and a higher fat diet. I think it's balanced here as far as diversity, and if there are more high-fruit advocates, then so be it - maybe more exist online or in person as raw foodists. I definitely see more and more people stating that the simpler you eat, the better (and not comprise your diet of gourmet/processed/fatty raw). I don't think it's that we're "against" higher fat eaters; it's just what makes sense to us and what works for us, so we state it. It would be disingenious for me to state that I think eating 1/2 c. of oil per day was healthy when I don't believe that to be true. *shrug*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2010 03:33AM by Utopian Life.

Basically, all 80-10-10 is telling you is that your diet should be based of fruit, and that we really do not need much protein and fat. With big brains (that need carbohydrates) and essentially herbivore body (not made to digest fat), this is an easy logic. We CAN eat herbs instead of fruit, if we HAVE TO, or if we need some nutrients that the fruit available to us does not have. So, any combination of fruit, veggies and herbs that is healthy is good, but it is advisable to have as much fruit as possible.
I have only been on raw food for 10 months, but I know I will stay on it for life. I have been a fruit lover all my life and even before I became raw I ate much healthier than average SAD diet, including fasting. My diet also had included unlimited amounts of fruit (I often ate 5-7 pounds of grapes on the way home from work, which is a long drive). So for me, 80-10-10 came as a natural solution.
I am grateful to V. Boutenko and her family as they were the first ones I found on the internet advocating raw food, but Boutenko's smoothies, which I used when I first went raw, made me sick from large amounts of greens (kelp, collard green). I had iodine problems and I lost facial and body hair. It took me months to recover but I am doing well now, on mostly fruit diet. I do take iodine supplement and try to eat food rich in iodine including algae.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basically, all 80-10-10 is telling you is that
> your diet should be based of fruit, and that we
> really do not need much protein and fat. With big
> brains (that need carbohydrates) and essentially
> herbivore body (not made to digest fat), this is
> an easy logic. We CAN eat herbs instead of fruit,
> if we HAVE TO, or if we need some nutrients that
> the fruit available to us does not have. So, any
> combination of fruit, veggies and herbs that is
> healthy is good, but it is advisable to have as
> much fruit as possible.
> I have only been on raw food for 10 months, but I
> know I will stay on it for life. I have been a
> fruit lover all my life and even before I became
> raw I ate much healthier than average SAD diet,
> including fasting. My diet also had included
> unlimited amounts of fruit (I often ate 5-7 pounds
> of grapes on the way home from work, which is a
> long drive). So for me, 80-10-10 came as a natural
> solution.
> I am grateful to V. Boutenko and her family as
> they were the first ones I found on the internet
> advocating raw food, but Boutenko's smoothies,
> which I used when I first went raw, made me sick
> from large amounts of greens (kelp, collard
> green). I had iodine problems and I lost facial
> and body hair. It took me months to recover but I
> am doing well now, on mostly fruit diet. I do take
> iodine supplement and try to eat food rich in
> iodine including algae.

rab,

glad you are doing better on your fruit diet and your diagnosing your iodine problem. I stand by my statement that to suggest that there is an anti-80-10-10 bias on the board is nonsense. If anything, it's the opposite. And as Cherie's said, "so be it". Not arguing the merits of the diet. Suncloud did a very good job of that. Just saying that some resistance to an overwhelming pro-fruitie bias doesn't change the make up of this board. Best to you and yours.

Paul