powerlifer,

I think what madinah means is that the rate of consumption of nutrients is far greater in a baby than in an adult because a baby is a growing organism whereas an adult is in relative stasis. Until old age anyway, at which time the process effectively reverses.

I just took it as ive seen it on many other raw forums including this one before, many believe that because as a child you only need 5% protein that is what you need as an adult, infact it was a few 80/10/10ers on another forum that used this analogy.

But as ive re-read what hes said it does sound like i may have took it out of context and that he does know we obviously have higher protein needs, sorry for not reading it properly if that was the case madinah.

Check out this article from Lukas Ircha's site. It is his experience water fasting. On the 4th week he eliminated the mucoid plaque. Just water fasting, no psylium or anything like that:

[www.lukasircha.com]
Lukas writes:
"I have now done quite a number of fasts ranging from short fasts to long ones. When I did my long 40 day water fast I noticed that even though I had been on a 100% fruit, vegetable and nuts diet for 2 years prior, there was a large amount of healing that took place during the fast, mainly within my digestive system and joints. During the fast I had double or triple the elimination coming out of my urinary tract, eyes, skin pores and mouth. I stank like a skunk for many days and my saliva tasted like soapy chemicals for about 2 weeks during my fast. For 4 weeks my digestive tract was healing like crazy and on the 4th week I twice eliminated this unbelievably foul smelling, charcoal black, syrupy-consistency feces that I flushed immediately because it was so awful smelling.

Many of my joints went through a fair bit of healing and my vision improved and was bumped up one notch. So what was the most impressive improvement about my body? It is the fact that ever since that fast I have been able to maintain about 10% more muscle mass than before my fast (see pictures below) and I feel that my digestion and absorption of nutrient is much stronger and better. My overall energy level, endurance and recovery from a hard days work has improved, along with many other things working better."

fascinating reading about Lukas's fast. I would love to go to a proper fasting center. I understand exactly what he means about how hard it is to fast at home with all the myriad of distractions. Do you happen to know the names of the fasting centers he mentions. One day if I have a windfall I would love to go to one

WorkoutMan,

Its funny, Luka never mentions mucoid plaque. He talks about the toxins that were eliminated via his digestive system, which is to be expected, but he never talks about those ropey things that come out (which is called mucoid plaque) when people do their psyllium cleanses.

Still pretty anecdotal, theres no way to know really and i cant see how a water fast would excrete hardened plaque like they suggest occurs.

ive heard alot of good for fasting although its not for everyone, it near put me into hospital before i was clued up that i was going through hypoglycemia, i listened to too many people telling me it was detox symptoms.

I'm not interested in the plaque thingy - I just know that fasting would be great for me. But precisely because of possible problems I would only do a supervised fast in a place where I felt really secure.

Everyone seems surprised that there are plaque thingies coming out after a long fast, so what happens to the hard stools most people have overtime that are so hard to push out?

Its just that there isnt any decent documented evidence of it happening other than those sites who sell colon cleansing products in most cases.

Most people accumulate a little undigested food especially if they have low stomach acid, but even that is eliminated in under a week. The theory and science to back mucoid plaque up is very poor.

Especially that the fact many coroners are viewing multiple colon cancer and other deaths daily with no sign of ever coming across mucoid plaque.

Fasting for more than a week would surely kill me. I am naturally thin with a very high metabolism which has never seemed to slow down from fasting. The last time I did the master cleanse I lost so much weight after 10 days that my stomach was concave, it was a bit scary honestly. I mean, I still felt ok, a little spacey maybe. I simply don't have that extra weight to lose though.

Some people actually gain more weight after the fasting as the body became more efficient at processing food and nutrients. It is not the food we eat that count but the nutrients we can assimilate. I personally prefer weekly fasting 30 hours of dry fast per week.

Certainly that sort of fasting works better for me but water fast, I won't dry fast because I am too active with the children.

Yes with the kids you cannot dry fast. There are only two types of fasting, dry and water, juice fast is not a fast but a feast.

If you click on Workout man's link Coco you will see how thin that guy got on his 40day fast - quite emaciated looking - I wouldn't want to do that.

But I have some health issues that I think might be resolved with some supervised fasting. I'm not thin so I think I would be ok. But it isn't going to happen any time soon!!

I would never dry fast - what is the supposed benefits from dry fasting?

Supposedly increased detoxification but i dont buy it myself personally and it seems damn right dangerous.

Well it is very easy to dismiss things we do not understand. Dry fasting is the ultimate healthiest fasting. When the body does not have water it will search for water by looking for it by breaking down the fat cells the least healthiest cells. A dry fast is 3 times more powerful than a water fast. I personally do a 30 hours dry fast per week, it is amazing. It is the best way to cure some of the chronic diseases



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 02:15PM by madinah.

I would need to see some research to believe it. Water is great for flushing out toxins, I imagine they would build up in the body without any water at all and recirculate in the blood. That doesn't sound terrific to me but again, I would like to read some research.

Water should be kept to a minimum during a fast. Most thinks that during a fast they have to drink as much as they want, that is a problem, water should be kept to a minimum, the body for a day or two needs a rest, total rest. The body was made to keep reserve in situation of famine which were frequent in the past, now we have plenty of food in most parts of the civilized world, so there is never famine, the reserve need to be used during a dry fast, there is plenty of water in the cells. [ways-ahead.net]

Like coco i would need at least some half decent credible information to even consider dry fasting, ive never really looked to see if there is any so if anyone would like to change my view point im open to reading as always.

Lots of people think they need to drink gallons of water All the time even though scientists and doctors are coming out in droves to debunk this myth. I don't think you should ever drink anything at all unless you feel thirsty. There is another myth that by the time you experience thirst you are already dehydrated but I find it hard to believe the body is that stupid. If your body wants food or water or sleep or anything it sends you a signal that is hard to misinterpret unless you are very unaware of yourself. Even during a fast I would not guzzle loads of water for this is very difficult for the organs to process, it's like a flood that washes out good along with bad, messes with your electrolytes etc. Moderation with liquids is a good thing. Having an uncomfortably full bladder is also an unmistakable message from the body after all...

Madinah - that is very difficult to read as it doesn't fit the page by a country mile!! Also by the very suspect David Wolfe - I would need some more scientic evidence that dry fasting is a good idea than that. Have you any more credible links?

One of the best source of info on dry fast is from the book by Tonya. She dry fast every day from 2pm to the next morning. [www.amazon.com]

[curezone.com]

Most of the research is in Russian
[www.fastingconnection.com]

I personally do my dry fast from 6pm wed to friday morning every week, it is magical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 04:43PM by madinah.

Ive done a 2.5 day dry fast. It was fine for me, but I wouldn't recommend it to others. Anyone eating salt regularly should definitely not do a dry fast.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't unhealthy people show it in
> colonoscopies then? Explain this to me please
> because so far I can't see it as anything other
> than bunk...
> My uncle was a severely unhealthy man and yet his
> colonoscopy? Bubblegum pink smooth muscle tissue
> from all reports.


[www.optimalhealthnetwork.com]
My husband had a colonoscopy too and I was surprised that his was clean. But next time I will look and see if the veins are visible. If you can't see the veins then the colon is covered by a layer of white/clear muciod plaque - like is shown in these photos.

take your fingernail or even the edge of a spoon and scrape the inside of your cheek, give it a good scrape ya wanna take a good layer off ! , you will get a layer of mucous to come off , observe how that spot feels as it take awhile for the cheek to secrete the mucous again to replace what you scraped off .. ... this is normal .. its lubrication .. can you imagine what it would be like if there was no mucous and you have food travelling thru the whole length of your digestive system .. ouch !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

OMG Jodi, the mental image! Thanks a bunch dood...

Wow, I just gotta clarify my 'MILK' statement I made way back. I wasn't promoting milk for food, I was only suggesting that infants only food is milk at that stage of development, and that milk is alkaline. So, it would follow that when the infant grows, and can digest more solid foods, then that food should also be alkaline. I believe that it's a precedent for what sort of food is best for humans.

Also, I mentioned that I am 80 to 90% alkaline. The other 10% or so will be nuts, and sometimes rice.

Coming to this thread late, but I picked up a book yesterday called "The Ultimate pH Solution" about acidic/alkalinity diet, I should probably return it, but I wanted a start to learn a bit more beyond the basic premise. Downloaded a [url="[url]http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=ONxqN&m=LX3OFEledDQX6B&b=kw0ooLcezN9WvGvMBkHXzQ[/url]]Acid/Alkaline Food Chart[/url/ sponsored by [url=http://www.energiseforlife.com/]energiseforlife.com[/url].

I am picking this up with more of an interest in increasing my energy levels as they are not that great, to get more precise on what fruits vegetables to eat more of or to avoid, stuff like that. I would do a cleanse but I am on harsh Acne medication and that would go against the doctor's orders. For example when I'm buying/making green smoothies via blender to make the greens edible I'd go for cantaloupe, plums, dates, watermelon, nectarines (the less acidic) rather than most other fruits such as blueberries, oranges, etc (moderately acidic) according to the Acid/Alkaline Food Chart I linked to earlier. So adding lemon/lime is supposed to help, more greens less fruit too.

Anyways to the point. That all can slide as it does not cost much, and a reasonable person will diverge from this list anyways at least on occasion, beware of the silver bullet.

What does cost the equivalent of a good used car is an alkaline water system. That's my real reason to find out if this premise is bunk or not. Powerlifer mentions the possibility of stomach acids being neutralized, other organisms needing to be acidic. Seems clear that the body will balance for neutral ph if tilted either way acidic or alkaline. I'm not looking for gatorade or cocaine or anything, just natural holistic wellness and sanity. I just get this impression from the book that my entire diet is acidic therefore bad including water - the most important nutritional element we consume.

The premise and simplicity of the alkaline/acid concept is very attractive, but seems too good to be true. Is it a great guide to good health? Probably. Should it be taken literally and strictly? I think the jury is out on that one: personally I would think not. Another opportunity for experimentation and for research.

Hoping you all will chime in on the alkaline water. Someone at a health food store near me suggested I use Concentrace Trace Mineral Drops, at only a dollar and for a small quantity I figured why not. The book suggests lime/lemon juice in water. Then there's the 3 grand ionizing alkalizing water machines.

It will balance to a certain extent but not with chronic use of these crazy alkaline bicarbonate PH drops will neutralize stomach acid, much like the alkaline waters, ant-acids, proton-pump inhibitors etc.

these crazy drops they now even recommend to add to your bath, the skin is naturally slightly acidic for a reason to ward off fungal/bacterial infections etc. Which is why when a woman takes anti-biotics they often get yeast infections down there due to the good bacteria being killed off which produce certain acids and other substances.

[www.amlaberry.co.uk]

The acid thing is really hard to figure out but I think I have made the connection. When the blood drops from the ideal 7.4 you are in an acid condition, when it drops to 7.35 you can be diagnosed with acidosis.. The body uses minerals to buffer the blood so it stays at the 7.4 and when the minerals get depleted disease can set in. Not because of acid but because of mineral depletion. Some foods enter the body alkaline like meat for example, others enter as acid like citrus as as example. In the body in the cells after the meat is burned off acid residue remains, and with the citrus alkaline residue remains. It should not be all that complicated to figure out and if I am wrong please correct me. Using things like baking soda to buffer the acid is not good because it enters the stomach where acid is needed. In fact acid depletion in the stomach is a big problem today and things like tums and other garbage are sold misleading people to think they need have too much stomach acid when in reality they do not have enough.