It is not the injection or liquid B12 supplement, the 100 percent vegans who are healthy are those whose intestinal flora can synthesize B12 from the raw food they eat. It is that simple. [www.living-foods.com]

This has been disproven. Even if we are making B12 in the gut it is not in amounts or in placement that is useful for absorption. Latest research debunks that myth.

klomasius Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh shite!
>
> I meant FRESH, um... chalk it up to being late at
> night? Or maybe it's multiple deficiencies.


Funny!

Ok, so I think a vegan diet is a great way to go but NOT without supplementation. sorry cats, other primates eat bugs and dirt and eggs and occasionally other creatures and that's how they get away with it. We aren't eating those things (and don't want to ~bugs~ yucky!) so supplements it is. If you don't want to do it you don't have to but getting regular blood screening in that case is highly advisable. Hey, you've got not much to lose taking the test but a whole heck of a lot to lose if you don't and you're wrong.

I have kiddies, I can't do experiments on them so we supplement and see a doctor. So far so good but we'll see after our next appointment tomorrow...

It's a factor of our modern lifestyle and hygenic practices.

I have a theory, and I'll be testing it sometime this year, that we don't actually need supplementation if we eat fermented foods.

I haven;t said this to anyone else or mentioned it on any other boards as yet as I have to do some research. But I know of at least one long term raw vegan who over the course of 6 months got his B12 levels up to normal using this method.

Caveat 1: I totally understand about the kids thing, I have a vegetarian (not vegan, he eats veg when he's with his dad) son and I give him supplements. He doesn't eat like me at all though.

Caveat 2: I ALWAYS recommend regular testing across the board for everyone interested in their own health and the health of their kids, including B12. A yearly check up is advisable. This is the only way to be sure as even with supplementation, and even on an omni diet there can still be deficiencies due to malabsorption etc.

Caveat 3: This is ONLY for me, I would never actively recommend this to ANYONE else, this is my experiment.

I've read that the B12 you get in ferments is not viable, like the B12 from sea veg. Sad because I could eat my homemade "pickles" all day long.

When I have the time I'll be getting this actually tested out by sending fermented product samples to a laboratory. It also may differ from fermentation process to fermentation process as different bacteria are involved.

I'll be researching more into B12 (bioavailable) producing bacteria in the coming months. I'm quite surprised no one has thought to produce an actual food directly from the bacteria B12 can be extracted from, like a spread, possibly vegemite like.

Just a bit of background, I do have some qualifications in this area, I have an honours degree in biology specialising in Microbiology (and microbial genetics).

As I've mentioned, I haven't mentioned this to many people as I wanted to do some experimentation first.

Oh, Madinah, the current theory on B12 production in the human digestive system is that the bacteria that produce the B12 are too low in the digestive system for effective absorption to occur.

I'm unclear why many seem threatened by this man's diet tweaks. He seems like an honest person trying his best in the tangled up world of nutrition. His over arching message sounds sensible: blood test, exercise, supplement deficiencies. Nor do I get the B12 conundrums expressed. Like Prana correctly and quietly notes, B12 appears to be an issue for all, not just *raw* vegans. Also, what's the big problem with taking a B12 pill again?

Dogma. The problem is dogma.

Klomasius, are you referring to body ecology?

februarygirl

39% of the US has a b12 issue.
[www.ars.usda.gov]

Im speaking with Natasha at the moment and will do a response video.

Kevin Gianni didnt follow 811 and thats the MAIN reason he got bad results. I mean the dude believes you can be a breatharian!!! He thinks bananas are unhealthy and that goats teets are there for us to suckle!!

How come NONE of these people seek advice from the thriving raw/vegans? Oh thats right cos they DO NOT WANT to eat/live this way. They want an excuse to lower their standards and appeal to those that want/do, same.

Remember to look further into the criteria of studies, which in this case was that there was only 3000 participants that took part, to say 39% of the US is b12 deficient isn't exactly accurate when only a minute amount of people took part.

An interesting study none the less, but again it is only one study with not even a sprinkling of the US population so i wouldn't read into it too much. There are multiple studies that also counter it regarding b12.

Also studies often select participants that they believe will favor the outcome of there study, many pharmaceutical companies do this. I don't know anything about US states but Framingham, Mass could be the equivalent of some very poor UK council estate area where most don't eat or cant afford a great selection of food, are heavy into drugs which again would put the odds in favor that many would have low levels of vitamins, minerals etc.

Again i know nothing about the state in question but you have to look deeper into many of these studies. Sometimes the pharma companies select a certain species of bird etc to test on as they know its likely going to favor there results.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 11:13AM by powerlifer.

All so fascinating. My brain hurts.

Kevin Gianni should have got Doug to coach him on 811 and then we would see a SUPER fit Kevin Gianni.

Doug Graham. March 2011. 58.