I've just been on naturalzing.com to get some nori and they have all these new products there they call "superfoods". Let me start right off saying I'm against all this hype and the "next new thing" these sites want you to spend a fortune on - I've tried them all. Unlike many of you, I've been bitterly disappoined by goji, maca, E3Live, angstrom minerals, you name it, I've tried it. I've even been stupid and desperate enough to believe the Wolfes-at-the-door about chocolate as a health food - groan! If something is "endorsed by Gabriel Cousens", believe me, I run the opposite direction as far as I can get. But what do you guys think of this acai stuff? Can it be "raw" in any sense of the term? What about vegan DHEA - how is that raw and why can't we just take AFA or spirulina or hempseed for Omega-3? What about noni juice - I just feel bad about cultivating fermented food - I'm not a huge Natural Hygienist, but it just seems wrong? And that new $$$-maker for Cousens et al., Natural Defence, or cellular defence, whatever it's called - taking zeolite powder - doesn't that seem insanely unhealthy? Does anyone have good reports of any of this?

To tell the truth, the only thing I can bring myself to try is probably the acai, but it sounds like so many other "products" I've thrown money away on, thanks to these hype sites.

These products are grossly over-hyped and over-priced.

The "rawness" of some of these products is questionable - agave, cacao.

The safety of some of these products is questionable - raw cacao is a great place for E. Coli to hide.

For the price of raw cacao, you can buy delicious artisan/gourmet chocolate.

Goji berries are over-priced - buy them in your local Chinatown instead.

It's all hype and ripoff, designed to enrich the fake raw $gurus$.

Yeah, I actually hate chocolate! I just once overcame my intense antipathy and bought a whole bunch because the Nature's First Liars were promoting it as a spiritual health food (blush). I don't like eating dried fruit, either - for the past few years I've been trying to mail-order those goji plants so I can have the fresh berries, but they are always out of stock.

Wait a minute, you're question the "rawness" of agave and cacao and then suggesting buying chocolate instead. Is this raw chocolate? How is going to be any more raw than the raw cacao you questioned earlier?

As for buying Goji berries in Chinatown, there is less chance of finding organic or even just pesticide free versions. Maybe growing your own is best.

I agree with you guys on the hype and gurus parts - but I'm also meeting a new generation of raw fooders who are promoting raw food without hype or claiming to be gurus or trying to make mega bucks - very nice. I don't eat foods to be healthy, I eat them because I like them, cacao is probably the only "superfood" I eat, and I'm very happy with the quality.

Cheers,
Ian.

I did not mean to suggest that I think raw food-ism is synonymous with those raw food sites that sell questionable supplements - the "very nice" raw-foodism of which you speak is generally based around natural foods. Which "DHEA supplement" and zeolite obviously aren't. I actually find it quite horrifying that "raw" sites should promote these things - they don't have anything to do with raw foods as either a lifestyle or a movement, it seems to me. But in raising the issue, I just wanted to check that true rawists hadn't anything wonderful to say in praise of, say, "acai", the new hyped superfood, this year's goji berry or something, as they sometimes will say in praise of maca or pollen, for instance.

As usual, if you do a search on acai, you get the same old piddley handful of testimonials repeated over and very on each site - at first it looks as though it's a major discovery, but then it looks painfully like that goji-noni-etc. multi-level marketing thing. One really has to go to one's real-life raw peers, and to one's own body and own sense and savvy (by now!) and try to save the money - I'm in such deep financial troube right now!
Makes me kind of angry, if I think about it. I know i's often been said that these people are just trying to make a living and we don't have to buy the stuff, but I feel I'm on the opposite camp - I used to trust naturalzing.com, for instance, to supply good, honest raw vegan organic wares, and now I don't. Perhaps the answer is to just avoid "superfoods" altogether - at the turn of the century, perhaps, it still meant something - meant something nutrient-dense you could live off of if you wanted to go mono (I'm afraid I have a weakness for essentialism and always feel a craving to go mono-diet) - now it only seems to be something you can call something Oprah Winfrey's picked up on.
Chocolate as a "superfood"? I suppose the definition's changed over the past few years. Not sure what the usage is any longer. Thank you for your input, Ian and longtimeraw!

My point on raw cacao: besides being overpriced, both the raw-ness and safety are questionable.

Chocolate is cooked, but it is safer - less likely than raw cacao to have E Coli and many other nasties. It is also cheaper. If you really want chocolate, buy the cooked artisan kind, not the hyped and questionable raw cacao.

Er, chocolate is cooked. Why discuss it on raw vegan forum....(sorry, some other thread made me grumpy...)

I've been really happy with all the raw cacao I've bought, it's a little pricy, but I find it takes me a long time to work my way through a bag since I if I only need to eat a small amount. I'll look up the brands for you I've used so far and point out my favourites.

I find nothing unsafe or questionable about raw chocolate, beyond that not every food suits every person, and it seems there are few people who raw cacao doesn't suit. I personally can't stand cucumbers....

I also find there is a lot of FUD applied to raw chocolate from research that was from cooked chocolate. If you would care to provide from references for me to read, I'd be happy to expand my research.

As for E Coli, you can get that in almost anything. Apples? Odwala killing some babies with E Coli?

Ian.

> Er, chocolate is cooked. Why discuss it on raw vegan forum....(sorry, some other thread made me grumpy...)

Because not everyone is 100% raw. And even among those who claim 100% raw, you can find plenty, e.g., the fundamentalist natural hygiene crazies, for example, who claim that raw cacao is toxic and cooked and all manner of evil.

>I find nothing unsafe or questionable about raw chocolate,

Fermented under uncontrolled conditions, allowing exposure to birds, rodents, insects, and their dung. Great conditions for bacteria and other nasties.

>I also find there is a lot of FUD applied to raw chocolate from research that was from cooked chocolate.

Cooking kills nasties like E Coli.

And yes, you can get E Coli from any raw food.

Most of the recent research on chocolate centers on benefits from the flavonoid content. Plenty of such research, including review papers, on PubMed. All on cooked chocolate. There is no such thing, at this time, as raw chocolate. Only allegedly raw cacao.

Oh no! Freedom! Oh gosh. DHA, probiotics, cool new choices for raw curious people!! They must be stopped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

longtimeraw Wrote:
> Because not everyone is 100% raw.

Hmmmm, interesting...

> Fermented under uncontrolled conditions, allowing
> exposure to birds, rodents, insects, and their
> dung. Great conditions for bacteria and other
> nasties.

Here's a little background on fermenting cacao beans, it discuss a little about the importance of proper fermentation. Also that during fermentation a lot of heat is produced "killing" the bean, many raw foodists probably won't like that:
[www.scharffenberger.com]

I still have not been convinced that raw cacao handling is any worse than any other raw food. But, I think I'll keep an eye for raw cacao from Ghana.

Cheers,
Ian.

I love superfoods and I eat them daily. I eat tons of Green Smoothies and I add items like bee pollen, maca, goji berries, raw cacao, Natural Cellular Defense, Vita-mineral Green, probiotics, E3 Live, and other high quality foods to the smoothie.

I tried the no supplement approach and I feel much better using supplements / superfoods.

I do not understand the tone of your post, bungay. Are you trying to say I am a bad person for eating and selling superfoods?

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2006 09:46PM by Mike.

I think he is saying your a bad person for having a different belief system.

To him rawfoodism is like radical Islam. Bound by the laws of archaic books (probably by TC Fry in this case) and not open to interpretation based on new evidence.

You are a heretic which is worse even than an infidel.

acai is great berry. lots of antioxidants, minerals, amino acids, energy...

goji is good.

cacao drinks are the best.

use your brain, think for yourself...

Of all that you mention, the only thing I'd consider is vegan DHA if I were pregnant or lactating. But even then, I remain skeptical.

I do take B12 and D2 though, because the evidence is extremely convincing for B12 and somewhat less so but still compelling, for D2.

>Here's a little background on fermenting cacao beans, it discuss a little about the importance of proper fermentation. Also that during fermentation a lot of heat is produced "killing" the bean, many raw foodists probably won't like that:
[www.scharffenberger.com]

Thanks for the link. It makes it abundantly clear that the fermentation process is decidely unsanitary, hence room for E Coli, and other nasties like animal dung containing parasite eggs. That is why heat sterilization is not a bad idea, for this specific food item.

> Oh no! Freedom! Oh gosh. DHA, probiotics, cool new choices for raw curious people!! They must be stopped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freedom is vital, including the freedom to do some very dumb things - even things that are harmful to one's self. DHA is a GREAT thing for vegans (and omnivores too) to take. Probiotics, whether in yogurt or supplement form, are good.

>To him rawfoodism is like radical Islam. Bound by the laws of archaic books (probably by TC Fry in this case) and not open to interpretation based on new evidence.

What, you don't pray to TC Fry multiple times a day. Off with your head!!

Ooooh I have to defend myself - TC Fry is my ultimate definition of "a bad person"! Bungay is so anti-Fry it's her middle name.

I know a little bit about TC Fry...but not much. Why is he considered to be such a bad person? Just curious.

Kim

He was having trouble staying vegan so he decided to eat his own children!

NNNNNNarz! You just made me Laugh Out Loud!!!!!!!!!!


Life Is Funny!


alive!

LOL! I hope you are joking!

I don't understand. What do you mean, Yogamama?

Life Is Good!

alive!

narzz is joking about TC Fry's eating of TC fry's kids...silly kids...

Some people are critical of TC FRY... OK so move on...

ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS KNOW YOUR SOURCES. PICK AN ACAI BERRY OR CACAO BEAN IN THE JUNGLE, EAT IT THERE AND THEN TELL ME IT"S TABOO, EVIL, UNHEALTHY, OR (bone-chilling-SHRILLLL-SHREEEEK!!!) NOT RAW!!!

So who it TC Fry then? Why are people critical of him/her?

Thanks,
Ian.

Didn't you read, he ate his kids! And if you keep questioning him he may ate yours too.

Bring it on, I'm a firm beleaver that vegetables make you violent.

If TC Fry can travel in to the future and eat the kid I don't
yet have, then I can travel in to the past, and eat him when he
is a kid. After all, raw foods seems like a gate way to vampirism.

;-)

Ian.

ohhhh noni!!! not the kids!

This is turning out to be a weird thread.

Anyways... what is the "vegan DHA" that is repeatedly being mentioned in this thread? Does that have something to do with Omega 3 fatty acids???

Err... that should have read "vegan DHEA".

DHEA is a hormone and I never heard of anyone selling vegan DHEA (though I'm sure it's out there).

DHA is the long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids found mostly in animal products (fish, grass-fed red meat). However DHA also occurs naturally in edible algae and a few companies have made vegan DHA products (Omega-Zen the most notable), Allah bless 'em!

I still am confused as to why anyone would want to critisize such people selling health products with proven benefits. Everyone's got to work for money so why not do something that benefits people?

Hey, Narz.

I assumed the original poster meant DHA.

I have nothing against DHA except the price of vegan DHA, which is approximately 4x as much as non-vegan DHA. I think there is some debate remaining as to whether it is necessary and which groups really stand to benefit (all people? pregnant people? lactating people? people with a history of CHD or stroke? how about people who have very healthy background diets and are already in good health?).

I feel that I make enough, given my diet and my fatty acid intakes, which I take pains to keep in the ideal proportions for DHA synthesis. I am a premenopausal female so I feel pretty confident that I am making some, although I have not had a blood test to confirm it.

The thing that gives me pause about taking it as a supplement is precisely the thing that makes so many men feel that they need it: the male's apparently very limited capacity to synthesize it from alpha-linolenic acid.

Some researchers have theorized that this may be because isn't necessary. In nature, the longer the carbon chain of the fatty acid, the more rare it is.

Others have posed the question that any benefits might not be due to the DHA per se but to other powerful fat-soluble antioxidants that are naturally present along with it in fish oils.

And still others have noted the remarkable fact that the higher the DHA content of the body, the more prone to peroxidation is the mitochondrial membrane. The species that live the longest tend to have the least amounts of long-chain omega3s present in their mitochondrial membranes. This might be an argument against high dietary intakes of preformed DHA.

But we really don't know. I especially admit that I don't know. There was a time when I took it because I found the pros to be compelling, but after a while I wondered why I bothered, I felt nothing, so I stopped. There are a lot of things that I am not certain about. The more I read, the more I feel that I don't know.

I might pick it up again when it gets cheap and when more researchers are recommending it even for healthy people.