I've been researching this fat vs. sugar theory to deal with candida, and there is a lot of literature out there from the raw community that says an excess of fat, and not fruit sugar, is the cause of candida overgrowth. I've been on a mostly raw "standard" candida diet for a couple of weeks now, and although I do feel better having eliminated carbohydrates, I am taking quite a bit of raw coconut oil. Now I'm wondering if I am on the wrong track. Maybe I should be eating more fruit and less fat?? Anybody have any facts for me? This is confusing.

Thanks!

Neither are the cause, although once candida morphs from its yeast form to hyphal fungal overgrowth it does feed on sugar.

The cause of candida is alkalinity in parts of the body which are meant to stay an acidic PH such as the skin, digestive tract. Kill off the acid and anti-microbial producing good bacteria then opportunistic pathogens such as candida will flourish.

This is why candida overgrowth often happens after the use of anti-biotics which kill of the good bacteria.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Here is an excerpt from a study which shows proof that an acidic PH keeps candida in its harmless yeast form, where as an alkaline PH allows candida to morph into its hyphal tissue penetrating fungal form.

"In tissue samples from mucosal surfaces with a non-acidic pH, such as the tongue, oesophagus, intestine, and most skin areas, filamentous forms of C albicans predominated, and most of them exhibited both 1H4 immunostaining and an invasive phenotype (fig 3A ). In internal organs having a non-acidic pH (liver, lung, heart, and thyroid) from patients with systemic candidiasis, variable numbers of yeast cells were found, together with hyphae or pseudohyphae in virtually all cases. In these tissues, both yeast and filamentous forms showed strong 1H4 immunoreactivity (fig 3B , C). In contrast, in those tissues with an acidic pH, such as the stomach and collecting ducts of the kidney, the predominant form of C albicans was the blastospore (yeast). Interestingly, in these locations yeast cells essentially showed no 1H4 immunoreactivity (fig 3D , E). However, when adjacent tissue invasion was present, hyphae or pseudohyphae were the predominant form."

"The ability to undergo transition from the yeast to the hyphal form appears to be crucial in the pathogenesis of invasive candidiasis. 4– 6 Both yeast cells and hyphae are found in infected tissues and contribute to pathogenesis. Yeast cells are better suited for rapid haematogenous dissemination, but together with hyphal elements they are also capable of breaching epithelial and endothelial barriers to cause extensive organ damage. 4 During the infectious process, yeast cells and hyphae may encounter different microenvironments within the host. At acidic pH, C albicans grows mostly in the yeast form; at an alkaline pH, it grows primarily in the filamentous form. 2, 6, 7 Gastric acid provides an effective barrier to most microorganisms (normal gastric pH values are 1–3.5). In contrast, achlorhydria and the use of H2 antagonists, which raise gastric pH, have been found to be associated with a higher proportion of invasive gastric candidiasis. 17 Similarly, although the skin is relatively inhospitable to fungal growth, 18 the experimental increase of skin surface pH yields more pronounced cutaneous candidiasis in human volunteers. 19"

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

all i know about candida (yeast right?) came from the book the south beach diet. by them, it's not even sugar so much as corn syrup, and doesn't mention fat. it says probiotics are the way to get rid of it. it's a great book even though there's no veg version. the intro is also very good for anyone who has to worry about getting/needs to prevent diabetes

if you're interested, i'd definitely give it a read becuase when i quit eating stuff with corn syrup in it, my waist size dropped dramatically

The precursor to most of the above is low levels of stomach acid and in turn an alkaline PH.

Digestive disorders such as candida ovegrowth and other forms of dysbiosis would be seen in a very very large portion of the population if all it took was excess carbohydrate and fat consumption.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

hey powerlifer,

thank you so much! excellent. does the study go on to address effective measures to shift the ph in the affected areas to the desired acidic level? is the standard approach, starving the pathogen by avoiding sugar and carbohydrates while supplementing with probiotics and herbal anti-fungals the best approach? and one known raw food anti-fungal is raw coconut oil, which i have been taking. is there any evidence of all of that added fat being a bad idea?

i welcome anyone's thoughts. i've had systemic candida for years, but never had the determination that i have now to finally get rid of it. i'm willing to do whatever it takes, i'm just not exactly sure what that is.

thanks everyone.

No evidence at all when it comes to candida anyway and coconut oil is a good anti-fungal.

Id watch with the thought of systemic candidiasis also, this although not a rare condition is definitely not as common as these candida sites make out. Systemic candidiasis generally only occurs in severely immuno-compromised individuals such as AIDS, cancer etc. Systemic candidiasis is very serious and potentially life threatening condition.

Most of the mis-information comes from these candida websites which attribute every symptom under the sun to candidiasis. Thats not to say you don't have an overgrowth of candida though or other opportunistic pathogen.

Reducing the food supply doesn't work either, it will help temporarily and reduce symptoms though, anti-fungals are also largely pointless. All they do is temporarily reduce the fungal population and can create more resistant microbes, providing some short term relief and you continue in the cycle of using anti-fungals.

The best solution is to get the terrain back into its natural state i.e repopulating the gut flora which keep these microbes in there natural forms such as with candida/yeast and not the hyphal fungal form and increasing stomach acid. Raw apple cider vinegar mid meal tablespoon to increase stomach acid temporarily, fermented foods and probiotics to repopulate the gut flora and prebiotics to stimulate the activity and feed the good bacteria.

Im not sure i cant remember the rest of the study ill post the full link tomorrow as im tired to look through.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

thanks, powerlifer. that's really helpful. i just started on the ac vinegar, but i'll add more of that- i haven't been taking it with meals. good idea. i'm also doing fermented foods, now i'll add probiotics. i like your common sense natural approach to re-establishing balance.

as an added measure, in addition to what you have suggested, i will continue to avoid foods that feed the candida, and keep taking the herbal anti-fungals. i liked the approach for the herbs. i read that it's best to choose several, but to take one type, say cat's claw, for 15 days, then nothing for 5 days, then switch to a different one, say black walnut, for 15 days, with 5 days off, and keep repeating with several different anti-fungals. this way, it is much less likely to give the pathogen the opportunity to mutate.

i just want balance back.... soon.

i was told by someone who did a colonic for me years ago that i had a huge amount of yeast in my waste- and i recently did the spit test that turned up positive for candida. so, i don't know the extent to which i have it, but i definitely have felt "off" for a long time, and so have attributed my feeling of vague "unwellness" to the candida.

Spit test is very inaccurate way of testing marsh. I would give up the anti-fungals also many of these have secondary quite potent anti-bacterial properties so your likely killing off any good bacteria you are repopulating. Not only that you cant really kill off a natural and needed part of the body. You want to get it back into its normal form though which is as a yeast.

I would stick to a strong regime of repopulating the flora, feeding them and increasing stomach acid. If after a few months you weren't getting any better id move on as its likely not a gut issue. Do look into adrenal insufficiency aka adrenal fatigue, this often gets mistaken by the candida websites and is much more common due to chronic stress and stimulant abuse. If you list up your symptoms it would be easier to tell.

I forgot to post this in the last post the meaning of systemic candidiasis:

Systemic candidiasis is an infection of Candida albicans causing disseminated disease and sepsis, invariably when host defenses are compromised.

I wish many of these candida sites were taken off the net for poor information, they cause an awful lot of confusion for some. I went round in circles for years upon years because of them and other bogus health sites with misinformation.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 09:16PM by powerlifer.

marsh, the simple answer is you have a weak immune system! Staying away from refined carbs, sugar, and to much fat will help and might be nessesary for some. I would choose SOAKED! nuts and seeds over oil. Soaked nuts are acid stimulating but to much coconut oil is not great either as a therapy, it is known to raise trygliceride levels. The best way to go would be to stimulate the digestine for your three main meals a day and take a good immune stimulator. You probably wont want to hear this but wheatgrass implants stimulate the immune system tremendously and kill yeast in the lower bowel. Even natural antifungals can be very harsh on the system for someone with leaky gut and if you have fungal issues you might have it. Lots of people do but don't know it. The system needs to heal and that can take a month to a year or more. If you can afford to drink wheatgrass juice 2oz twice a day would be great too. Also once a week enima would strenghten the system.

The problem is the key part of your immune system you want to get in gear is your gut flora which is thought to attribute to about 80% of your immune system.

Stimulating and modulating other parts of the immune system although helpful still wouldn't really do much in treating dysbiosis. Although for most with not auto-immune disorders no harm in taking some medicinal mushrooms, many of these are adaptogenic anyway such as reishi and support the adrenal glands.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

ok. i'll give you more info.

this all started for me about 3 months ago when i had become quite disheartened that my hair was falling out at an alarming rate. i have done extensive research for these past months, and have unravelled, the best i can, the reasons for this, and also, in the process, solved the mystery of other long-term health related issues.

my symptoms:
60-70% hair loss on my head
significant body hair loss
insomnia
extreme fatigue
brain fog
medically diagnosed involuted goiter
very dry skin
recurrent yeast infections
bad breath
sugar, starch and caffeine cravings

i think that about sums it up. and believe it or not, i have been quite functional, but with the use of caffeine to give me fake energy.

my self-diagnosis:
adrenal fatigue
hypothyroidism
candida

what i have been doing:
i have eliminated caffeine, all sugar including fruit, with the exception of berries for breakfast, and all carbohydrates. i had been taking wheatgrass juice in therapeutic quantities (6-8 oz / day) but due to the high sugar content, i am now doing implants daily instead. it's hard to hold them for more than a few minutes, hopefully i'll get better at it. i'm growing my own grass, so it's really inexpensive and easy to have 3 or so trays a week available.

a few days ago i started coffee enemas to stimulate liver detox, holding it only in the sigmoid colon, and have expelled the most foul-smelling sludge. i have also begun skin brushing to increase lymphatic flow.

i am taking potent iodine supplements and coconut oil for thyroid support, and ashwagandha, an adaptogenic herb, for adrenal and thyroid support. a week ago i had begun the anti-fungal herb, cat's claw, but i am considering leaving that out now that it may be destroying good bacteria. i'll think about and research that idea more.

i have made significant life-style changes to reduce stress, (and i had been enduring plenty of that for several years) and have been taking melatonin to assist in sleeping. i really want to be done with that, but i don't know of anything else that can help with the insomnia. valerian and other herbs don't work for me.

i am also doing an elaborate scalp regimen- massage, essential oils, topical coconut oil and fingernail buffing to jump start hair growth and nourish and stimulate my hair follicles.

as far as my diet:
mostly raw, including greens, a few nuts and seeds, which i soak, berries, sprouts, homemade kimchi and spirulina. i've recently added supplementing with apple cider vinegar which i will be increasing. i had been taking 4 tablespoons of coconut oil a day, also, but i'm concerned about all the fat- which was my original question with this post.

i feel 100% better than i did 3 months ago. sleep is still a challenge, but it is alot better. my energy level is fantastic. some days i am more fatigued, but i attribute that to a cleansing reaction that comes and goes. it is easier to swallow now, which seems to indicate that the goiter is smaller. it feels smaller to me, too. intuitively, what i am doing feels right. and my body is responding positively.

it's good to have support, and i value the ideas of others. so after you have read this, if you have anything to share, i'm open to your thoughts.

thanks so much!

I guess powerlifter was confronting me without really confronting me, but I was assuming your were doing probiotics, preferably Primal Defense. Probiotics should be number one on the list. Sounds like you are doing pretty well so keep it up. I would not do coffee enimas, I would drink wheatgrass-dont worry about the sugar and don't worry about holding the implant although it helps. Eventually you wont even release it you will just absorb all of it! I dont have much free time but if you want some specific info. PM me. I have been to the Hippocrates Institute and much of the info. I am quoting is from the man who runs it, and he said no coffee enimas. For the immune system use RM-10 from Garden Of Life. Or another product that I don't have the info in front of me now. It is most likely the same mushrooms as RM-10 You need to increase the recomended dosage though and cant remember the rule, I thought it was 9 or 12 pills per day, but work up to that. I have had much experience with all this and can say you should get better just keep it up. The RM-10 really will boost your system try it. Wheatgrass kills yeast so don't hesitate to drink it!

i am not sure about taking wheatgrass orally, so i stopped. the tray grown grass is so high in sugar... i don't want to feed the candida. however, i've read that it does help kill off candida.

anybody know about this??

Rzman, i was just meaning what you were saying about the immune system. You could stimulate and modulate other parts of the immune system and it would mean very little if you dont take care of the part which is effected which in this case is the gut flora.

Marsh, firstly like rzman says id ditch the coffee enemas, coffee weakens the adrenal glands. Coffee would weaken them further. If you want to cleanse your liver bitter herbs on the back of the tongue pre meal are the best solution.

Have you had a thyroid blood test done? Although they are inaccurate im just interested to see what it said. Testing your basal body temperature first thing in the morning can give you a better idea how your thyroid is functioning. Although goiter can be caused by other issues, it doesn't look like your diet has any solid iodine source which is the most common cause of goiter. But i see your taken an iodine supplement, just be careful not to go overboard. I would def give up the anti-fungals also.

Most of your symptoms can be attributed to the thyroid. If you haven't had a blood test i would get one done. Including anti-bodies.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

blood tests indicated a low thyroid several years ago. they gave me the choice of taking medication or not, since i was borderline. i chose not to. it was a standard blood test, and i have read that not only are they grossly inaccurate for testing thyroid function, but when they actually do detect a low level of thyroid function, it often indicates very low function.

a few more things-
i did forget to mention that i have a pretty furry white tongue, which i have thought signifies candida, and until last month, i have been painfully cold, a common low thyroid issue. i haven't tested my basal body temp. i guess i could, but it would just confirm the obvious to me.

so, i have a question about coffee enemas. it is my understanding that when done properly, the caffeine goes straight to the liver via the hepatic vein, and stimulates the release of toxins. i have experienced this in the stuff being expelled. it is so nasty. the caffeine does not circulate the bloodstream, i never feel wired- at all- so how can it be affecting my adrenals? i don't get that. until i am convinced that the coffee enemas are making my situation worse, i'm going to keep expelling the black sludge that it is encouraging me to get rid of. do you know something more about this? i am no expert. i just know what i am experiencing.

and i have decided to up the probiotics and stop the anti-fungal herbs. that makes sense to me. thanks for that idea. i really do appreciate all of your help.

so, you guys have me thinking....

i think i'm going to see if i can get the same impressive results with the wheatgrass that i was getting with the coffee enemas. i had been just doing a small amount of wheatgrass as an implant. i think i'll hold off on the coffee enemas and give this a try. no need in introducing caffeine unnecessarily.

thanks for all the help.

I forgot to reply to your post yesterday marsh, like you say introducing caffeine anywhere in the body isnt really a good idea especially if you have adrenal gland problems.

The furry tongue can be thrush, but you'd know if it was most likely. The common white tongue that people have is actually from bacterial overgrowth again caused by low stomach acid and lack of gut flora.

There are so many different reasons for hypothyroidism that it can take abit of trial and error. Some causes are secondary low thyroid due to adrenal fatigue, lack of iodine, tyrosine, selenium, hormonal imbalances such as estrogen dominance, auto-immune hashimotos etc. Treatment would depend on the cause.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

thanks for your thoughts powerlifer. the thyroid thing has been an issue for many, many years. they've ruled out auto-immune stuff, and told me they weren't sure what was causing the goiter. i stopped going to that doctor and decided to not drive 2 hours to some specialist. this was years ago before i really had any noticable symptoms. i have a feeling it is a combination of several things. and that's one reason i'm taking several approaches.

a big one for me has been the adrenal burnout. 4 or so years of intense lifestyle stress combined with skydiving (major adrenalin output), a recent weekend activity that i did a lot of over the past few years i am sure has led to adrenal issues. i am just entering menopause, so i'm also sure there are some hormonal issues coloring the situation as well.

something i'm doing , or the combination, is working. i am feeling better. the last two nights i slept great with no melatonin supplement! that felt great. i still get really tired in the late afternoon, but overall, i have way more energy. and i have little tiny sprouts of new hair! you have no idea how happy i am about that! the goiter is still there, but i think it has gotten smaller, it is easier to swallow.

from what i've read, the thyroid gland is really, really slow to respond to any treatment. i've only been supplementing with iodine (and the tablet contains selenium) for one month, so i think it will take more time for that to kick in and resolve. i'll give it several months.

i appreciate all of what you've offered to me here. i like the natural re-building of gut flora approach. i've let go of the coffee enemas and the herbal anti-fungals, and got some good probiotics. also i am taking more ac vinegar with meals as suggested somewhere that i read to maintain acid stomach.

so, i think what i'm doing is good for now... maybe i have to just wait longer to see... if you have any other ideas, i'm all ears.

thanks again!

Well if you've ruled out auto-immunity being the issue with goiter that's good as its much harder to correct.

Iodine deficiency can take time to repair just as it does to occur. The menopause wont help the thyroid either due to the hormonal fluctuations. The best tool here would be to use bitter herbs pre meal on the back of the tongue. This stimulates the release of stomach acid, pancreatic enzymes, bile secretion and cleanses the liver. In turn the liver can cope with metabolizing the excess hormones.

Although the gut flora is important for breaking down the estrogen metabolites also so they aren't re-absorbed.

Supporting your adrenal glands with adaptogenic herbs and Vitamin C & B5 rich foods is a good start.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

pl- thanks for the encouragement.

can you suggest some good bitter herbs? and are they applied dry? or as a paste? i've never heard of this. thanks.

Doesn't really matter how there applied as long as they come in contact with the back of the tongue. I mix them in a little water usually.

Bupleurum root is good as it also cleanses the liver, can raise dopamine too. Andrographis is called "the king of bitters", gentian milk thistle, dandelion etc are mild bitters.

You can buy pre made formulas such as grape bitters, chinese bitters, avoid swedish bitters as they contain stimulant laxative herbs.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

hey, thanks so much for all of your help. i really appreciate it.

marsh,

Classic hypothyroidism, there, possibly with a complement of adrenal fatigue. Cutting out caffeine is a good idea, as is repopulating gut flora and taking iodine. Remember that it takes a long time to heal a glandular disorder, so be patient, try not to stress, get lots of rest and low impact exercise(yoga would be ideal) and eat a varied raw diet. Good healing to you

tamukha,

thanks so much for your encouragement! i appreciate that alot.

cutting out caffeine, which i did 3 months or so ago, remains the hardest of all to deal with. i am soooo tired sometimes- especially in the late afternoon. i'm glad you mentioned that it takes a while to heal. that's something i need to remind myself of when i start getting impatient. all in all, though, i do feel much better. and i have to say, i am so, so grateful that i began loosing hair! it took a vanity issue for me to finally deal with some longstanding health issues that i had been avoiding, and using stimulants to keep me functioning.

i love this site. i've come and gone for years, but always consider it a place of great support.

Does the ashwagandha not help if you take it around when you begin to feel tired in the afternoon?

I used to be the same so much so i would have to go to sleep, adaptogen herbs got me out of that.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

the ashwagandha makes me really relaxed and almost sleepy, and it has the added benefit of helping with insomnia, which i need. what is working for me is to take it in the late evening.

this thing with being tired in the afternoon isn't a new thing, but it seems like this past week it has been really pronounced. i think it's just a cleansing reaction- maybe yeast dying off or something...

i just lay down between 4 and 6pm. sometimes i read, and sometimes just lay there and listen to something. it will pass. i'd rather let my body rest if it wants to.

i've only started the ashwagandha about 3 weeks ago. it will take some time to kick in. really, of all the stuff i'm doing, only the wheatgrass has been part of the plan for 3 months. iodine about 5 weeks, and the rest just a few weeks.

you say you've had similar issues?

marsh,

Don't know if you've mentioned it upthread, but do you know what your iron and B12 levels are? Extreme fatigue can have many causes, but I wouldn't rule out anemia just because you most likely mainly have a glandular problem--when one system in the body is struggling, it's rare for others to not develop problems, also. There is no such thing as an "isolated" disorder, not really. I'm not trying to scare you, just want you to be sure of exactly what you are and are not dealing with, so as to develop the most efficient program for healing

Ashwagandha can do this to some its because it works on the neurotransmitter GABA which produces a feeling of sedation, which is why ashwagandha is good for anxiety and stress disorders.

There are more uplifting adaptogenic herbs which like ashwagandha are not CNS stimulants. Some examples are suma root, jiaogula, schizandra berry, maca root etc.

Yeah i crashed my adrenal glands big time, partially with chronic stress for years, poor diet, drugs/stimulants(hard stimulant drugs) and alcohol/cigarettes. This left me bed ridden for years.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 05:17PM by powerlifer.

pl- wow-sounds like you've made it back and are doing great now. i'm going to assume that you've already shared with me anything that has helped you that you think might benefit me also. how long did it take your adrenals to recover?

i was thinking that i may add another adaptogenic herb to my program, a more stimulationg one that i can take earlier in the day. i definitely want to stay with the ashwagandha for now, though. it is helping me sleep.