No reason you cant take more than one marsh, and although more uplifting pretty much most adaptogens arent CNS stimulants(this is a good thing obviously) minus Rhodiola rosea, American Licorie & Korean Ginseng these do have very mild CNS stimulative properties. The others i listed are fine.

Hmm i had other issues going on as well as the adrenals such as very very poor liver function(bitters and a few other bits ill list helped alot), heavy metal toxicity also. It took me a while to get better and it was a slow boring journey ill say that. Bee pollen although not vegan was a great help due to the rich vitamin B5 content which is the adrenal glands second most needed nutrient. Ive since come to love other pollens(make sure your not allergic with a very small dose then build from there) such as pine and camellia sinensis which are vegan.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Tamukha-

I agree. I know this is not an isolated problem. It's funny, because when I started to rapidly shed hair, I started my research to address that issue. The more I read, the more I began unravelling a web of related health challenges and symptoms that I have known about for years but never really done much about in any sort of dedicated way.

I don't know what my iron or b12 levels are, but I can tell you that I do still eat some dairy, so most likely b12 is not an issue. I'm not sure about iron.

This is my philosophy and my approach:
Since I agree with you that no health issue is ever isolated, I am attempting to deal with the imbalances that I am aware of in a natural, holistic and balanced way. By utilizing herbs and foods primarily, hopefully everything will come back into balance organically.

For expample, it takes years and years and years for something like cancer to actually manifest to a detectable level most of the time. I could potentially have any number of imbalances that I don't know about, and that maybe modern medicine can't yet detect. But I'm not so concerned with figuring out every element within my system that is out of whack.

I also believe that as I follow the thread of re-establishing balance holistically and naturally, and as I focus on health, instead of illness, I will intuitively be drawn to that which I need. I came here to this site to ask a question about the fat in coconut oil, and it has led me to some great discoveries and to so much support from people like you and powerlifer.

So while I so much appreciate your input, I really think I have figured out the main cause of my health challenges right now...hopefully, anyway. And hopefully, what I am doing will automatically address any other underlying issues that I'm not really aware of.

Thanks again for all of your encouragement and support...that's the best medicine there is!

Powerlifer-

I'm still reading and thinking about other adaptogens, but I'm feeling kind of attracted to schizandra. I may go with that.

And it's funny, because several months ago, when I first began this healing journey, I had this urge to take bee pollen, and so I bought 2lbs of this great quality wild-crafted organic stuff. I was adding it to my smoothies in the morning. Just a few days ago I ran out. Now, since reading what you've just written, maybe I'll re-order some. I'm vegetarian, mostly raw and mostly vegan, but not dogmatic about it. If my system will benefit from the bee pollen right now, I'm not opposed to using it.

What did you do for the heavy metal toxicity? I suspect I have some of that going on, too. I'm not going to get too far out there trying to uncover every little possible thing going on with me, like I just posted to Tamukha, but I'm curious about what helped you.

Pl- I was wondering, how long did it take you to recover?

i was just flipping through david wolfe's sunfood success.. book and he has a little section on candida. besides the regular, something he recommended was actually sunbathing. something like, fungus requires dark and damp, so some sun infusion may help to kill it off. sounds good to me.

Oh, I love that idea. Definitely a mood-booster if nothing else.

I very much argee with rawalice, Brian Clement says sunlight is one of the most powerful immune stimulators there is! and so do many many other researchers.

I just realized that there's a private sunny window in my bedroom that gets beautiful warm sun in the afternoon. I'm adding a daily afternoon sunbath to my routine. That's just about the time I need to take a little rest, also. Perfect.

omg, i just really read this whole thread. I'm so sorry you have been going through such a tough time. have you heard about Edgar Cayce's castor oil packs or I guess Edgar Cayce in general? I personally am a huge fan of his work. I've recently had a major health dive recently too, which I am slowly but surely coming out of, and I think a huge part of it is from the fact that I started doing his castor oil packs. My favorite book from him is Edgar Cayce's Handbook for Health through Drugless Therapy, and there's tons of stuff to google as well, (though the book is always the best!) Just thought I'd mention it. Hope all is still getting better!

Thanks Rawalice

I'm actually really ok. It was a blessing to lose so much hair, because now I am taking really good care of myself. I have done hours and hours of research, and have come accross some great natural therapies for restoring fallen hair. Of course it all begins with a healthy lifestyle and diet, but I'm also working directly with my scalp.

I love Edgar Cayce. I'll google him and check out what he has to say.

oh, you're very welcome. I also read that kelp is good for metal toxicity, so if you're already taking it... Sometimes I'll do a kelp bath too. It makes the water electric and makes me feel like i'm at a spa.

I <3 kelp.

Seaweeds are good for metals due to the alginate content which binds to heavy metals and other radioactive elements.

Brown seaweed extract powder is the best for that due to the high levels of alginates, as well as other therapeutic compounds.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

rawalice,

I have an aversion to eating kelp[feed it to me violets to great improving effects, as many here have already heard], but a kelp bath strikes me as a heavenly idea--odd

I'm not sure about herbal anti fungals killing the good bacteria? can anyone point me to a study on the subject?
When I have had to take allopathic antibotics I ALWAYS get a case of thrush, ringworm, athletes foot etc.
yet I have taken several types of antifungal / antibiotic or antiparasitic herbs and have never had any such side effect. Maybe these herbs don't in fact attack the good bacteria in the same way??

merry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure about herbal anti fungals killing the
> good bacteria? can anyone point me to a study on
> the subject?
> When I have had to take allopathic antibotics I
> ALWAYS get a case of thrush, ringworm, athletes
> foot etc.
> yet I have taken several types of antifungal /
> antibiotic or antiparasitic herbs and have never
> had any such side effect. Maybe these herbs don't
> in fact attack the good bacteria in the same way??

Many of these herbs have secondary anti-bacterial properties take berberine herbs for example are notorious for killing the gut flora off.

What herbs do you take and ill be able to tell you if they have anti-bacterial properties.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

I'm not taking any herbs at the moment but in the past I've taken oregano oil, berberine, aretmisine (for giardia), LDM 100 (which I think is bacterio and yeast static so your immune system can then take care of it) propolis (I dont know if that is vegan or not but very antibiotic) and some ayurvedic herbs. None of these gave me any rebound yeast infection in the way conventional antibiotics do.... But I dont know of any scientific studies about them...
I dont take these things without need but with a full blown infection I'm not sure that probiotics can do the work fast enough....

merry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not taking any herbs at the moment but in the
> past I've taken oregano oil, berberine, aretmisine
> (for giardia), LDM 100 (which I think is bacterio
> and yeast static so your immune system can then
> take care of it) propolis (I dont know if that is
> vegan or not but very antibiotic) and some
> ayurvedic herbs. None of these gave me any rebound
> yeast infection in the way conventional
> antibiotics do.... But I dont know of any
> scientific studies about them...
> I dont take these things without need but with a
> full blown infection I'm not sure that probiotics
> can do the work fast enough....

Most of these herbs have strong anti-bacterial properties, berberine herbs in particular are notorious for killing off the gut flora.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Ok,
You are absolutely right about the confusing information regarding Candida. I have gone from a raw food diet of fruits, vegetables, and turpentine-filled sugar cubes, to organic meets and good fats (coconut oil, ghee butter, fish oil) with some well-cooked veggies and no fruit. I am trying to make sense of this all. I understand the fats (as the brain needs fats and cholesterol) but it seems a bit much.
Also with the meat and fat diet, you have to take quite a few supplements which seems suspect to me.
One thing both diets agreed on was that probiotics are actually bad for you. They can turn bad and the body actually creates good and bad bacteria based on need.
[www.healingnaturallybybee.com]
In order to get rid of candida, you had to get your body healthy and the candida would be converted to good bacteria.

Now I believe there is a happy medium in there but I would like to know your thoughts on a basic diet to get the body alkaline or acidic enough to rid the body of candida.

I have suffered with this my whole life and even got to the point of being a walking vegetable with bouts of dementia. I smashed my finger in a boating accident and got a shot of penicillin and a two week subscription of antibiotics. The Healing Bee (website) swears I still have candida and in fact made my bacteria worse but, to be honest, in the two week period of using the antibiotics, I got my brain back. Now I am paranoid the candida and other bad bacteria will come back stronger and I will be a vegetable again.

Also, once on a candida diet, how bad is it to cheat? Meaning, I may travel to a foreign land for two weeks and sticking on the diet would be too frustrating and no-fun.

Just anyone's thoughts on the whole thing would be appreciated.

Thanks

Probiotics dont work in the way you suggest, they cant turn bad or into bad bacteria.

Same goes for candida whether in its yeast or hyphal fungal form(the bad form), it cannot morph into good bacteria either.

Good bacteria i.e those found in probiotics are absolutely essential in overcoming candidiasis.

Alkalinity of the digestive tract promotes candida to morph into its fungal overgrowth form. This happens due to killing off the acid producing good bacteria, commonly after antibiotic use. The whole alkaline/acid theory is over-blown the body has many redundant systems to keep PH in check, unless you are altering it with strong alkaline compounds which can cause problems. Eating a diet rich in alkaline foods does have alot of benefits, because well pretty much all are healthy foods rich in vitamins, minerals and other nutrients.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

SGMav-

I've done so much reading and so much research for the stuff I'm dealing with, and I can tell you this much:

You will definitely find conflicting information out there, including here, in this forum. However, that being said, I have to say that I have gotten alot of great advice here. The key for me has been to weigh out the differing opinions, go for some trial and error with the myriad of different diets that are outlined, and then in the end, trust my body's response and my intuition about what feels right.

You'll figure it out. Trust yourself and trust your body, and do what makes sense to you.

powerlifer,
But the operative goal would be to keep it acidic as much as possible (i.e. - organic meats and good fats) as opposed to a more alkaline diet. If I am to understand you correctly, a healthy diet is the key, no matter alkaline or acidic but acidic is preferable along with probiotics. Correct?

And your probiotic of choice would be acidophilus supplements as well as raw apple cider vinegar, sauerkraut, kimchi, etc...?

I know of someone who has said that they got major metabolic issues through bee's diet with high fats and a lot of meats...personally don't think its healthy for the body and especially not the heart but I'm not an expert.
There are some videos on YOU TUBE from one Freelee who claims to have healed candida with a fruit mono diet (I think she did bananas in the beginning). Wondering if anyone knows of other cases of that and if its really true?

SGMav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer,
> But the operative goal would be to keep it acidic
> as much as possible (i.e. - organic meats and good
> fats) as opposed to a more alkaline diet. If I am
> to understand you correctly, a healthy diet is the
> key, no matter alkaline or acidic but acidic is
> preferable along with probiotics. Correct?
>
> And your probiotic of choice would be acidophilus
> supplements as well as raw apple cider vinegar,
> sauerkraut, kimchi, etc...?

Any of those probiotics and fermented foods are good sources. Water kefir is my favorite.

I still feel diet does not shift our PH in such dramatic ways as the proponents of the acid/alkaline theory do. The best part of the population would be suffering acidosis due to there high meat SAD diets, when they aren't. Just as many raw fooders would be suffering from alkalosis due to there high intake of alkaline foods. Like i say in my opinion the body doesn't work that way, it has many systems and ways for keeping PH narrowly regulated.

A high meat diet could actually lower stomach acid further due to how much is needed for digestion. It is quite common when people over eat on rich heavy meals having symptoms of low stomach acid such as heartburn(commonly thought to be excess acid when it actually is a lack of).

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

SGMav,

Agree with powerlifer; that theory of probiotic mutation is just not correct. Ideally, you have good bacteria in the optimal ratio in your gut at all times, and also a small amount of native candida albicans, which is like e coli, in that all mammals have it naturally occurring. It is a deficiency of the former and an overgrowth of the latter which leads to problems. In our toxic world, it's almost imperative to supplement with probiotic foods or nutraceuticals to maintain healthy colonies of beneficial bacteria; we are such an anitbiotic crazed culture.

I am curious as to your symptoms of long standing dementia(which I did not think possible) and that it cleared up after a course of antibiotics following your boating accident--have you traveled broadly to the undeveloped world throughout your life, and if so, have you ever in that time fallen ill with a fever or other infection?

Tamukha,
I had depression early on off and on my whole life. I knew something was wrong with me and went to the doctor numerous times with the oddest of maladies (a pimple that swelled my arm up the size of popeye, arthritis at the age of 16, etc...) One of the things that seemed to persist and slowly get progressively worse was my ability to use my brain to do basic functions. It got so bad that my friends no longer respected my ability to do anything that required critical thinking or any other intellectual exercise. Around 2007, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown until a nutritionist hipped me to food intolerance and that my problems were probably in my gut. By this point I was an emotional wreck; my nerves were sensitive to everything, I couldn't always put together coherent sentences, I was afraid of people and my own shadow, my memory was spotty, and I was simply walking around pretending to be normal when everyone just thought I was getting dumber and dumber. The sad thing is that because I couldn't get a medical diagnosis, no one believed me or the extent of my suffering. They thought it was all in my head and I was just a shiftless but (because I had no energy or motivation - and still struggle with that) The food allergy thing never solved the problem but with shifts in my diet to healthier eating, things got only slightly better. Once I read about Candida, I knew that this was the only thing my issue could be. I have not traveled around the world. I've been in the US the whole time save a couple trips here and there. I have never fallen ill with a fever or other infection.

When I got into the accident on the boat and got the penicillin and two weeks of antibiotics, I seem to at least have gotten my brain back. It made a difference.

Ok Powerlifer,

I still can't get a read on what you think a suitable diet plan for Candida is.

So am I hearing that we should just eat a healthy meal that isn't too acidic but not too alkaline? So meat and fruit would be ok or is sugar completely out of the question if you have candida? I don't too much care for veggies and could do away with them altogether. lol

I will use raw apple cider vinegar with each meal and try and natural probiotic such as sauerkraut, kimchi, or water kefir (if sold already made).

Being that antibiotics helped you dont rule out bacterial overgrowths such as SIBO. Working on restoring your stomach acid, repopulating with probiotics and stimulating/feeding the gut flora with prebiotics will likely help.

As far as diet, it depends on the type of dysbiosis, candida isnt as common as some sites like to make out and there are different types of dysbiosis some resulting in carbohydate intolerance. In which case you wouldn't want to go overboard with the carbs. I wouldnt worry about the PH of the food either, although like i say alkaline forming foods are all pretty much healthy and rich in nutrients anyway.

Also if you dont tolerate a various food eliminate it no matter what other candida sites say.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

SGMav,

Your health history certainly suggests a long standing pathogenic infection of some kind, and I agree with powerlifer that the old type antibiotic clearly acted on something pathogenic. There are types of parasitic organisms which respond to antibiotics the same way as, and have symptoms similar to, fungal overgrowth, and which are acquired in hygiene poor environments, like exotic travel locales--hence my query. Of course, all kinds of nasty things dwell in standing water in subdivisions, too, so one never can tell.

I also agree that doing an elimination test for foods common in your diet to determine whether there's anything that's just not helping the way a food should would be prudent. I've done it and it's a colossal drag, but it helped. Ask me if I miss soy? There are very few things that are commonly allergenic that one cannot live without.

As far as specific dietary quirks go, what about vegetables do you not like? Is it that you don't tolerate them well, or that you dislike the taste and/or texture. It is rare to meet a raw foodist that eschews things like leafy greens entirely, for example, because they are so rich in minerals, healthful phytochemicals and chlorophyll, which can be alkalizing to a dysbiotic system. Something to consider.

Tamukha,
I just don't care for the taste of vegetables. I don't eat them raw because of the oxalic acid and you can get more nutrients from cooking them and drinking the liquid. I just don't care for them.

I know which foods to stay away from that don't agree with me.

Well, I gotta' have calories so vegan/vegetarian is out of the question if rice isn't a part of the plan because it's too expensive and boring.

I would like to go bananas, meat, coconut oil, ghee butter, eggs, raw apple cider vinegar, and sauerkraut.

But is going to inflame my SIBO, I am screwed.

I did read Freelee's take on candida and she feels that fruit is good because the body needs glucose. So it seems to me that the body needs a little bit of everything healthy to keep it running but not an overload of fat which slows down the digestion process and allows sugar to go to the bacteria as opposed to taken in by the cells.

Seems as though I need more fiber, however.

If you got better taking penecillin it seems a bit unsure that candida is in fact your problem. Normally candida problems get much worse when taking antibiotics because they kill off the good bacteria which normally keep yeast in check.
Another thing worth checking out for difficult to diagnose health problems is chronic hyperventilation - I had this problem and it caused a myriad of mental and physical symptoms and dealing with it is getting my health much better.

As far as candida goes this is a raw food vegan forum so if you are thinking of using meats and cooked foods another forum might be better for you but if you want to try the high raw approach you will get a lot of support.