Hmmmmmmmm?

ooh good question

Actually I noticed one thing, me personally, my body doesn't give any negative reactions about it.

Been 100% organic for the past month.

but its so sad. organic doesn't even mean organic. once again people are aloud to lie to us and fool the consumers. certified organic is only 90% organic, USDA is 95% or something like that. do you know what that extra 10 or 5% means??? chemicals, pesticides, and other nasty stuff correct? it just sucks that we have to find out which companies certified it organic to see what percentage of organic it is.

Yes, I did notice a difference; and it is worth it to buy organic.

Fact most so called organic compaines are owned by the same conventional compaines/corportions. The only way to make sure your food is organic is to grow it yourself or find someone, a farmer, or a company that you can trust.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2006 04:11PM by greenman.

greenman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact most so called organic compaines are owned by
> the same conventional compaines/corportions. The
> only way to make sure your food is organic is to
> grow it yourself or find someone, a farmer, or a
> company that you can trust.

This is true, but does have a positive side effect. It's easier to apply one farming method to all your crops, and with the high profit margins on organic, it makes sense for them to grow all or mainly organic crops, sell all they can as certified organic, then sell the rest as commercial (even though they were grown organically).

Still, best to grow your own if you can, second best is to buy organic produce from smaller local farms.

Cheers,
Ian.

well it mostly tastes a whole lot better.

"but its so sad. organic doesn't even mean organic. once again people are aloud to lie to us and fool the consumers. certified organic is only 90% organic, USDA is 95% or something like that. do you know what that extra 10 or 5% means??? chemicals, pesticides, and other nasty stuff correct? it just sucks that we have to find out which companies certified it organic to see what percentage of organic it is."

confuzed, i think it means that it's at LEAST 95% organic... not 95% organic per say although it can be.

As a former treasurer for Hawaii Organic Certification Agency, and as a certified organic farmer myself for 8 years, I thought I should try to clear up some of the confusion about the labeling for "organic".

FRESH RAW PRODUCE labeled ORGANIC is legally required to be grown 100% organically with no exposure to chemicals WHATSOEVER.

Where the National Organic Program (NOP) rules talk about 95% organic being considered "organic", THAT ONLY APPLIES TO PRODUCTS CONTAINING MIXED INGREDIENTS. For example, if every ingredient in a product like salsa is
certified organic EXCEPT just one spice, AND if it is calculated that the spice makes up only 5% or less of the total certified organic ingredients in the salsa, then the salsa is considered to be at least 95% organic and it can be labeled "organic" and carry the USDA seal. There is a specific procedure outlined in the rules for determining if the product meets the 95% requirement.

In a case like the salsa above, the consumer is not being misinformed if the consumer KNOWS what to look for on the label. IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE INGREDIENTS LIST. Products like the salsa above are required to place an asterisk next to all the certified organic ingredients on the label, so that the consumer will know which ingredients are organic and which ingredients are not.

If EVERY ingredient (IN A PRODUCT CONTAINING MIXED INGREDIENTS) is certified organic, that product can call itself "100% organic" and can display the USDA certified organic seal, and/or the certified organic seal from the certifying agency.

If at least 70% of all the ingredients in a mixed-ingredient product are
certified organic, the product can carry a label saying it is "made with organic (whatever)" and there must be an asterisk next to each of the certified organic ingredients in the product. The product CANNOT display the USDA certified organic seal, and it CANNOT be certified by a certifying agency.

FRESH RAW PRODUCE that carries a USDA certified organic seal and/or a certified organic label from a certifying agency is legally required to be grown and handled with absolutely NO chemical exposure WHATSOEVER. The grower's soil and crop applications and records have been scrupulously examined by a trained inspector, and the store where the product is sold is required by law to keep on file the certification document for the grower of each certified organic product sold in the store. Any consumer has the right to ask to see that document, AND any consumer has the right to ask for the GROWER'S records that trace the product back to the specific field where it was grown, plus a record of everything applied to that field and crop and when those applications took place.

It is also legal for small farmers (making under $5000/year) to sell produce labelled "organic", but they cannot use the USDA certified organic label or a label from a certifying agency. Those growers must fill out an affidavit saying they grow 100% by the same rules that apply to certified organic growers, and they must give a copy of the affidavit to the store to keep on file. They can be fined big time if they are lying. If you see produce in your store that is labeled "organic" but doesn't carry a USDA sticker or a sticker from a certifying agency, you have the LEGAL RIGHT to ask the manager to show you a copy of the affidavit from the grower of that produce. The manager cannot legally display the product as "organic" unless he/she has a copy of the affidavit.

The information above comes from the 2003 edition of the Hawaii Organic Farmers Association's Organic Certification Handbook, containing the rules of the National Organic Program; Final Rule, effective April 21, 2001.

Best wishes, -Ally



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2006 07:26AM by Ally.

Hey Ally,

I appreciate your information but why was it that i saw a sign above the PRODUCE ONLY section that was carrying vegetables. There were ZERO mixed products in that section. Yet, there was a sign that stated that organic meant something percentage and certified meant something percentage... ( i forget the exact numbers). When I asked the guy that worked in produce what the sign meant and how I could find out which veggies were 100% organic, he looked at the sign, shook his head and said
" I don't know. That is so confusing. I'm just going to take the sign down." And he did, he just took the sign down. I was appalled! I mean, what the heck? Taking the sign down did NOT answer my question. Why would they have that sign there ( because they are legally obligated to do so) if there were no MIXED items AT ALL in that section?

at any rate,
hawaii takes a lot more pride than most states
and is above the curve as far as produce goes

i'm wondering what Organic means for other states

is that label a national thing
or a state to state thing?

Hi LaVeronique,

Thanks for the question.

The reason the sign was in the produce section was that the people who worked in the store don't understand the rules. Unfortunately, many people who manage or own a health food store don't know anything about the rules for organic, and once false information starts going around, people pick up on it whether it's true or not.

The rules requiring fresh organic produce to be 100% free of chemicals are so strict that if fresh organic produce in the store even touches nonorganic produce, it can no longer legally be labeled organic. Organic produce cannot even be placed in a box that once contained nonorganic produce.

Since 2001, there have been federal laws that apply equally in every state in the the US to the labeling and certification of all organic foods. The laws are very strict in requiring that all produce (including fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, beans) has to be completely free from exposure to any kind of chemical, or it cannot be certified as organic. If an agency does certify a product as organic when in fact it is not, that agency can lose its license to certify. Once the product is certified by the agency, it can carry either the USDA seal or the agency seal. It's up to the farmers which seal they prefer.

When applied to fresh produce, the difference between food labeled "organic" and food labeled "certified organic" is supposed to be that food can be labeled organic (but not certified organic) if the farmer has a "small farm exemption" (he/she makes less than $5,000/year and is therefore not required to be certified). But that farmer still must give the store an affadavit saying that the product was grown following all the same federal laws. Anyone who is leary of just taking the farmer's word for it, should buy produce that has a USDA or an agency "certified organic" seal.

Again, the only time the 95% rule applies is for products containing mixed ingredients, where it is determined that at least 95% of the ingredients in the container are certified organic. And even then, the ingredients list must show which ingredients are certified organic, and which ingredients are not. Personally I don't like that rule, because it's caused so much confusion. And why should packaged organic ingredients be allowed to comingle, when fresh organic produce cannot? But that's how it is.

Best wishes, -Ally

wow i am so sorry for mis-understanding the organic thing. your post has made me so happy you have no idea lol. that makes sense now the 95% thing is only for mixed ingredients i get it now. so a fruit that says organic is fully 100% organic? thanks for posting the explanation i feel so much better now and i feel safer eating my fruits lol.

Hi confuzed,

It never hurts to be skeptical, and I'm glad you were, because it gave me the opportunity to post about organic rules!

Keep in mind though that there is always such a thing as human error, and even human greed. If you see any produce in a store that's labeled organic, but you are suspicious about it, you do have the legal right to ask the produce manager to show you the certified organic document or the affadavit for the produce. Sometimes growers just tell the storeowner or manager they are organic, and then the stores don't ask the grower (or distributor) for documentation. That's not fair to growers who really ARE organic and have the documentation to prove it. Some store owners may not even be aware that they are required to keep documentation on file for all their organic produce. It's up to the consumer to make sure the stores do their part.

If the store can't produce a document and they are unwilling to make an effort to get the document for you, your best bet I think would be to call an organic certification agency in your state and ask them what can be done to bring the store into compliance with the law. Then stay on top of it until the manager can show you documentation. Any store that refuses to comply with the law is subject to (I think) a $10,000 fine.

I agree that the more food people can grow organically for themselves, the better!

Best wishes, -Ally



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2006 07:56PM by Ally.

The difference I noted moving from organic produce from commercial produce is the organic produce tastes much better.

Yeah conventional lettuce tastes bad. I'm sure I could tell the difference in a blind taste test. Convential tomatoes are terrible also. Farmer's market heirlooms are the best, picked ripe.

A few years ago, I was living in a place with a great organic farmers market. I didn't always get it together to shop there, sometimes I'd shop in the regular store, which carried non-organic produce. When I shopped at the farmer's market, I'd eat organic for a few days, and at other times I'd eat non-organic. On the days I ate organic, I would end up eating about 40% less than when I was eating non-organic. The difference was very noticable and repeatable.

I eat almost 100% organic now. The non-organic produce looks like plastic to me, just awful. I can taste the difference. I live in Iowa and we have beautiful organic foods grown locally in the summer, But even though we have a wonderful natural food store that tries to get good produce, the organic produce available commercially is not very fresh or vital by the time it gets here. It's still better than non-organic, but it is very devitalized.

HEY ALLY,

THANK YOU VERRRRRRRYYYYYYY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is AWESOME!

yeah, that makes a LOT of sense since i did notice how the organic produce was NOT able to comingle even the slightest bit with the non organic stuff so it wouldn't make sense that it was sprayed etc.

i appreciate your input.

i feel a lot better too.. ( hee hee)

double hee hee

triple hee hee

i guess i feel a bit giddy now

mustah been all that organic lettuce i ate

Hi la veronique,

LOL! Yeah, musta been that lettuce!

-Ally

lettuce be grateful for lettuce

haaa haaa