[www.fredericpatenaude.com]

Maybe they are not practicing what they teach?

I knew a fellow in Philadelphia who had a radio show on health and fitness,who was a trainer for the Eagles,and who died at 61 from heart failure.
Name was Jim Corea.

Vinny

I know a fabulous woman who is turning 89 and is terrifically healthy despite eating a diet of meat, dairy, refined grains, alcohol, caffeine, sugar, salt, bad fats, etc. She's still slim, active and sharp as a tack, I can only hope to be in such great shape at her age. I can only hope to be ALIVE at her age!
Remember that genetics play a big role in health and longevity, it's not all about diet.

So if it is not diet alone that accounts for longevity what is it?
The mood, attidute, religious belief, mariage life, children?
Diet should play some role but it seems like it is not, we are not what we eat?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2011 03:49PM by madinah.

Very interesting, and I do support Frederic's assertion that stress from a Type A personality is likely a strong contributing factor to earlier death. However, a quibble: though 4 tablespoons olive oil may measure up to 12 grams saturated fat as opposed to the 10 grams in a Big Mac, there's a lot of good fat in the olive oil which mitigates the saturated fat, whereas a Big Mac's fat is all deadly.

I love the way you put things Coco - I am not as sharp as a tack, I wish I were but that expression really makes me smile

Good for your old lady I say!!

I try to worry about quality of life instead of quantity. That's admittedly not always the easiest thing to do. I think a lot of people become "health experts" because they already have problems that would shorten their lives. Even though some die relatively young, perhaps their health interests allowed them to live longer than they would have otherwise?

Looking at it more closely a distinction should be made between those who are claiming to be health experts and those who were seriously eating raw food. Those who were genuinely raw such as Norman Walker reached the 100.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looking at it more closely a distinction should be
> made between those who are claiming to be health
> experts and those who were seriously eating raw
> food. Those who were genuinely raw such as Norman
> Walker reached the 100.

This is quite true. Ann Wigmore wasn't 100% raw, but she was in excellent health at age 84, when she died in a house fire. Paul Bragg died in a SURFING accident at age 95. Although I'm not a raw vegan, I will admit that plenty of people who eat a raw at-least-NEARLY-vegan diet seem to have EXCELLENT health and live a VERY long time. Common sense + raw foods really seems to be a smart combination for health and longevity.

Sorry but Paul Bragg didn't die at 95 in a surfing accident. I've done both his genealogy and that of Patricia, his "daughter", & both were quite talented at making up stories about their backgrounds. I also did Norman W. Walker's back story & was able to get an Arizona resident to take the photo of Walker's tombstone in the Cottonwood Cemetery several years back which appears on the internet. Just to again set the record straight on that little matter.

KFCA,

Since you have the scoop, mightn't you post this information at this thread?

CBS commentator Andy Rooney dies at 92. He was not raw. It may not be just food.

Well, Tam, it was quite a long journey to find the truth here.

As to Paul Bragg's age & place of birth, it became clear that Paul lied about both. Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, early documents that I'm sure Paul thought would never again see the light of day came out back to bite him.

Since it was apparent that Paul was born in Batesville, Ripley County, Indiana on Feb. 6, 1895, rather than in 1881 in Virginia as he claimed in numerous newspaper interviews & even in People Magazine, I decided to check this "age" angle out. Unfortunately, Indiana didn't require birth certificates until 1907 so that document would be non-existent. However I got amazingly lucky when I contacted the Batesville Public Library & the librarian there got interested in my project. In a storeroom she found microfilm of an old hand-written "Record of Births" of all babies born in Ripley County, Indiana in 1895 (a few were from Dec. 1894), and, lo & behold, there was Paul Bragg, born "Feb.6, 1895". She kindly xeroxed & sent me a copy, which I have in my possession.

BTW, although Paul Bragg claimed in at least one of his books that his father was a farmer who fed his stock organic apple cider vinegar to make them well, his father was always a newspaper typesetter/printer, originally in Indianapolis, then Batesville (the librarian also found this info), and later got a civil service job doing same, working for the Federal Government in Washington, D.C. Paul's story was pure hog-wash.

As to his death, although internet stories have him either dramatically dying in a surfing accident at age 95 (witness our poster) OR, while giving a speech (presumably at the Second Annual Health, Diet & Fitness Show in Miami where he was to be a speaker), he collapsed & paramedics filled him with drugs & he immediately died because his body was so pure, or some such. Actually on the morning of his death, he had what sounded like a stroke in his rooms at The Crest View Apartments & was taken to the emergency room at a local Miami Hospital where he finally died of a heart attack at 1:15 PM in the early afternoon of Dec. 7, 1976. Within two days he was cremated at the Lithgow Funeral Center in Miami, FL; I don't know the disposition of his remains.

coco,
"I know a fabulous woman who is turning 89 and is terrifically healthy despite eating a diet of meat, dairy, refined grains, alcohol, caffeine, sugar, salt, bad fats, etc. She's still slim, active and sharp as a tack, I can only hope to be in such great shape at her age. I can only hope to be ALIVE at her age!"

Well there may be outside of general stats, but all I can think of are the larger number of counter examples. My grandmother died at 90, after having her final stroke, she had like 4-5. All I can think of is her habit of eating 'aguduk', which is a mixture of shortening, sugar and berries. I am sure the fried bread didn't help either. (something like a doughnut) One doesn't have to eat it very often for the bad influence to hit one.

My other grandmother died at the same age after her heart valve finally gave out. She was very heavy, and liked very traditional foods. I remember making her fried eggs. I remember her telling me that she wouldn't eat it unless I cooked it with bacon, and salted it, and also used pepper. She made fun of her sister who was a 'health freak and fitness fanatatic'. She was a bit younger, but I remember her still wearing high heels and a miniskirt into her late 70's, and still looked good actually! Kind of strange to think of ones great aunt as being 'hot' but she was! I don't know if she is still even alive now, but she would be around 90 something if she was.

The deli owner downstairs finally closed his business, and had the growth on the side of his head looked at. It turned out it was cancer, and had to have 16 hours of surgery to have it removed. I think he was praying for a miracle for a few weeks, but then decided that standard medicine was ok after all.

I could go on and on, like my MIL, who is 80, and has 5 medications and still has extreme problems, despite all the medications. I am sure she would be better off with even just a little bit better of a diet. If she really likes those awful things, maybe she could have them on major holidays, but not as daily staples.

I think the health 'expert' problems is just another extreme. I don't know who made up 8/1/1 but that just seems like a bad idea. Its probably too much for most people to comprehend or follow. But why not 20-30 percent fat?

I was commenting to my partner today about how I secretely hoped that the health experts were wrong, and that something bad would happen to them. I guess I don't have to wish that on anyone, and now sorry I did. But I can't see eating only celery for the rest of my life. Thats what it seems like some experts are advocating.

KFCA,

Wow. I shall try to stay on your good side, because you are clearly an indomitable seeker of the truth! I hope that people hire you to recover their family origins, with your skills; they're thin on the ground in today's anti-information society.

Thanks for the explanation

Well Thanks Tam. Actually most people are not that interesting. But there's always the Few, the Annointed. And the P.T. Barnums of the World.

Speaking of Raw Food Gurus. Are you familiar with Dr. St. Louis Estes? Little remembered today, but Very Big in the late 1920ties/30ties. You might check out his Wikipedia page. Following him, his wife (or should I say wives?) & what became of his 12 kids was a challenge.

Estes . . . name rings a bell; someone at these boards has mentioned him before . . . or maybe I read about him in a book.

One encounters so much dense information in books that goes in one ear and out the other.

You'd make a good vampire hunter, KFCA

He died at 75 [en.wikipedia.org]

That Wiki entry reads like something from "Lemony Snicket"; can it be real?

Yes, it's for real. Was pretty hard to find out "whatever happened to" when kids were legally named St. Louis Estes II, III, IV, V, VI & VII (ego trip, anyone?) & the girls weren't much better. I believe three of the 12 are still living. If you google "Dixie La Medora" (one of the daughters), she has a pretty song for you on UTube.

So, Estes deviates from his obssession with dynasticism and comes up with . . . Dixie La Medora? This cannot be for real!!! Off to the YouTubes to give meself nightmares before bedtime!

OK. Just watched Dixie La Medora's rendition of "A Long Time Ago" on the YouTubes. Gosh, it is really difficult to type while curled in a fetal position. OK . . . OK, I've adjusted myself now into a more upright postition.


OK, um, this may be unkind, but perhaps someone should appraise David Lynch of this ditty. Perhaps.

My old Mum is 89, is slim and who's mind is as sharp as a razor. She rarely drinks alcohol, she gave up smoking in 1975, pops about 10 different types of meds each day, and eats microwave frozen vegies and a little meat.

I really believe that genetics play a large role in our morality, that and a positive attitude. If you go to www.deathclock.com you can punch in various stats, such as if you smoke etc., and it will give you your day, hour and minute your life is to end. And by far the greatest factor regarding longevity, apart from your genes, is attitude....

Now I should live a long time, since my mothers parents lived into the mid ninties, as did those on my fathers side. Further back, my relatives mostly lived into their late eighties. However, while diet may not be the most important factor regarding longevity, I believe that diet will give us a better quality of life.

Geo,
At this point there isn't much most people can do with their genes. I am not sure I would want to change them if I could. Well actually a few I might think about, but not really for longevity.

The thing about genes I don't like is that in some ways over believing in that removes a sense of responsibility for a lot of people, and can give license for eating a tub of ben and jerries, or a few pounds of steak on a regular basis. Some people might get away with it, but most people don't. So I suppose there is a genetic factor.

There is a case about the french woman Jeanne Clament, who is reported to have reached the age of 122.
[en.wikipedia.org]
She did smoke, but no more than two cigarettes per day. Drank alcohol, and ate a lot of chocolate. She seemed pretty active, but not fanatical or extreme. The one thing she believed in was olive oil.

Nothing in the article seems to suggest that she was especially moral or optimistic or positive in outlook. Although marrying money, and living in arles was probably pretty low stress I imagine.

I found a u tube video of her tasting chocolate. I wish I knew french to know what they say. Shes cute isn't she?
[www.youtube.com]

A massive elevation of world consciousness would increase life-spans significantly. I think a lot of people just become fed up with human pettiness which leads to their bodies giving up.

In the video she is saying that she likes eat chocolate after meals.
I know chocolate or more specifically cacao powder has been vilified in this forum as being toxic, the truth is it has many health benefits. Many of our raw vegan friends are just too sensitive to cacao toxicity but it may work well when you are not 100 percent raw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2011 03:43PM by madinah.

Madinah,
I don't know if this woman ever did raw. Chocolate is reported to have antioxidents, and a great source of magnesium and copper, a few things that are often low in western diets. Is that what you are meaning?

I don't know if any one particular food is completely good or bad. But somethings are clearly better or worse than others.

I think genes play a role. And stress and the person's ability to handle stress efficiently.

Mishu yes chocolate or cacao has great nutritional values but many people consider it toxic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 03:05PM by madinah.