You are missing my point completely Pborst i never said he direct solicited. He does this indirectly by posting links to his videos which then contain links to his sites. You will see he is now a youtube partner people who spam the viral videos such as the massive zit and other silly internet personalities making some money in the process. Nothing wrong with that just that he abuses others who make a living through the raw movement whilst he does the exact same thing. Find me many threads from Harley on here which are not just links to his youtube videos or 30BAD, you won't find many with him just discussing or helping others about our lifestyle.

you know I regret the day I put in my user name as Pborst. why can't you guys ever call me Paul???/ jesus.

No matter. Ok, so you agree Harley doesn't sell a product, he doesn't solict for his coaching.... so we are into indirect soliciting... jesus.

Ok, rawjoe, no hard feelings, just you are getting a little too arcane for me. I won't speak for anyone else on the forum, mostly because I have no right to, and also out of a basic sense of right and wrong I learned growing up in the 1960s. so You haven't made a convincing case to me!! about Harley. The man isn't a saint. But he isn't the devil either. Having failed to document or make your case, I suggest you move on. The next move is up to you. best. I will not further reply.

Paul

Does not detract from the fact that he uses this forum solely for flying by a few times a month to spam his videos. Sometimes he hasn't even got the decency to stay back and answer the questions. There are no different than any of the other youtube "celebs". My point was for a guy who preaches such a strong emphasis that he has no financial motivation when he does just as much. Who needs to sell books or supplements when you are making 3000 dollars every 30 days per client unqualified.

>you are making 3000 dollars every 30 days per client unqualified.

how do you know he has ever had a client?

rawjoe,

Eh, I should think that, as a known ultramarathoner, Harley is in exactly the position to coach athletes about eating for optimum athletic performance. This is on the spectrum of "forms of expertise" in my lexicon; perhaps yours is different. In any case, I think it is reasonable for him to exploit for his own livelihood what he has learned through tough trial and error. Would you rather he took up basket weaving? Selling coconut shell monkeys on street corners?

I have watched dozens of Harley's YouTube vids and never once heard him solicit donations. Maybe this happens at 30B/D, but not here. Yes, drive-by video posting is irritating--I have said so under a few of his posts here. But I have learned a lot from some of his vids, and I'm glad he's one of a variety of LRF voices out there that speak from walkin' the talk.

Doug Graham's '80-10-10' book has changed my life and I will forever be gratefull for that. I think it is one of the most important books (if not THE most important) on human diet. Still, I think that there will be more books, more research after '80-10-10'. There are some unanswered questions, like regarding B12 and iodine defficiency, true amount of fat needed and similar. Research will always continue and no book is written in stone.
I also believe in 'Aquatic Ape' theory, but that still keeps fruit as my main food. 'AA' theory is about humans having a 'semi-aquatic' phase, which essentially made us so different from chimps and gave us our human prerogatives. Unfortunatelly, this theory is not accepted in the 'mainstream' science, nor is it accepted among most of the vegans and vegetarians, so there are virtually no studies about the possible diet of 'Aquatic Apes'. I think (just my opinion) that the logical assumption would be that algae, shells and crustaceans would be within the reach of apes and later humans. I cannot see any ape catching fish regularly. So, the diet stays MOSTLY vegan but with the addition of sea food which actually enlarged our brains (only dolphins have larger brains than us).
I will stop at that, so that I too don't get banned due to advertising of animal food. This is not my intention. I have the highest respect for this forum which helped me improve my health and learn so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 12:38AM by rab.

That's very interesting rab. Where do I find more info on that theory, and also the best site to buy the 811 book?

In regard to Harley's irregular visits to this forum, IMO there does appear to be some type of method. His visits are always accompanied by a link (correct if wrong), and he then mostly disappears, only to return after quite a few posts.

Cheers, geo

Tamuka what exactly quantifies Harley as being an elite ultra endurance athlete as i have never seen any proof of this in regards to race results(something he often lies about). Harley himself says he is fit and i have no doubt in my mind that he is. In regards to the coaching, massive differences in coaching athletes than just running marathons yourself. My friend here does the marathons when they come around but is certainly no specialist trainer that would be able to justify charging 3000 dollars. Qualification and being book smart is not everything but in this case Harley is taking these individuals for a ride as it is clear he does not have the knowledge to justify this kind of money.

Also i never said he comes here begging for donations or solicting his coaching. What i did say was that he uses any and every method to drive traffic to his website. If even 5 out of the 5000 who watch each of his videos purchase something he will be doing rather well on the money side of things. As to Fresh - Harley has stated numerous times in the past few years that his job is as a health or sports coach.

I am a qualified running coach and coach twice a week on a voluntary basis at my local running club. There is far more to coaching than being able to run oneself

One of the first things to reconize is that one size does not fit all. Each person has their own unique requirments, skills and difficulties and must be treated individually.

I would not let Harley near my runners, particularly the beginners and in 'my' lexicon he does not have the skills to be a running coach.

I see as clear as day that his reasons for posting here is to entice traffic to his own website - fair enough - there's nothing wrong with that I suppose. I'm just not interested in anything he has to say and have decided to never click on his links etc. I think he is quite dangerous for vulnerable people searching for a fix because he doesn't seem to reconize any half way house - his opinion that unless you are doing things his way there is no hope for you is very worrying and quite wrong in my opinion.

Personally i think his charges for coaching are outrageous but it's up to people how they spend their money - hopefully most people will see what a charleton he is and keep their money in their pockets.

So true Flipperjan . Harley is not the only one though,these raw health "coaches and gurus" are popping up everywhere charging a forture giving out unlicensed health advice for thousands of dollars. Fasting retreats for 6000 dollars with no pre or post medicals, some which have resulted in death. It is almost as if anyone can do what they want.

Can you imagine the uproar if Matt Monarch gave up selling his raw food world store and started charging 3000 dollars for health and nutrition advice. Harley manages to fly under the radar, his boasts of how he has the most traffic for a raw website is more proof that the massive effort he goes to is for his and Freelea's financial gain. Not a problem with that if it was't that he abused others for doing the same thing. I mean does Harley have proof that Matt Monarch smokes pot, purely from a few videos of Matt acting abit hippy, or is that the slander and weirdness why he is being sued. Either way who cares just he is a liability and no one should be getting scammed 3000 dollars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 01:11PM by rawjoe.

>As to Fresh - Harley has stated numerous times in the past few years that his job is as a health or sports coach.

rawjoe, you stated "when you are making 3000 dollars every 30 days per client unqualified"

I then asked you how you know whether or not he has made any money ever.
Advertising yourself does not mean you are getting any clients.
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I don't know.
people make all kinds of assumptions here, then follow with statements that may have no basis in fact.

And is it not each persons judgment whether to spend 3000 dollars or not?

rawjoe,

What fresh said, above. Also, Harley has mentioned competing in marathons, perhaps not corporate sponsored ones, but certainly ones for which there must be some media evidence; maybe do a Google search.

Also, this:

Quote

I mean does Harley have proof that Matt Monarch smokes pot, purely from a few videos of Matt acting abit hippy . . .

following closely after this:

Quote

Tamuka what exactly quantifies Harley as being an elite ultra endurance athlete as i have never seen any proof of this in regards to race results(something he often lies about)

is a bit pot-meet-kettle.

flipperjan,

Forgive me, but although I'd much rather take running lessons from you than Harley, you are probably as qualified through experience to coach runners as he is. Unless you took an athletics degree at university?

I just wish others could see that Harley and Freelea's goal is to make money from the raw food movement. Subtle but effective marketing strategies involve creating and provoking response through controversial videos and topics. This is what an effective internet marketeer does, they will make it look like they have nothing to offer on the surface but deep down they are heavily financially invested in the 80/10/10 lifestyle. This is why any thread over on 30BAD will be deleted if you are having problems with the high carb lifestyle. I have been raw for 10 years now, massive difference between being an athlete and training one. From Harley's videos i can tell he has a LOW knowledge when it comes to nutrition and training. I never use supplements but i would rather buy a bag of goji berries rather than being scammed 3000 dollars by a huxter. Other raw personalities are just as bad cashing in on the fads with 6000 dollar retreats just to fast.

About how many coaching clients either get, i have seen one of them say they had 4-5 a month at a time so they must not be doing too bad considering the extortion they charge. But the funniest bit of all is they have the nerve to ask for donations to run a website that costs a couple of hundred bucks a year. Subtle huxters. I also know Freelea has sold a good few copies of her ebook so again they laugh at D.Wolfe's lifestyle but are living as high rollers jetting all over the world laughing at us all. Hardly anyone notices because they divert so much attention to others who sell tangible products.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 04:18PM by rawjoe.

geo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's very interesting rab. Where do I find more
> info on that theory, and also the best site to buy
> the 811 book?
>
> In regard to Harley's irregular visits to this
> forum, IMO there does appear to be some type of
> method. His visits are always accompanied by a
> link (correct if wrong), and he then mostly
> disappears, only to return after quite a few
> posts.
>
> Cheers, geo

I got the book from a friend, I am sure you can get it cheaper somewhere, found it here: [foodnsport.com].
I should not advertise AA theory, here is just a funny musical clip and a link to a BBC documentary:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
This one is about mermaids: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 12:42AM by rab.

Thx Rab, great song too, and we as humans have always had an affinity with the sea, so who knows.

Cheers, geo

The song reminds me of "Under the sea" cartoon song

I am totally sold on AA, I see the whole world through different eyes now. But, the big question is - diet. I belive our diet should be tropical fruit and sea food, including algae. But, there are very few studies on that.
Also, after the semi-aquatic phase ('mermaid' phase) there is the 'farming' phase and human migrations. We have somewhat adapted to these phases too. Again, I don't know any studies with relevant data. I believe the modern science is, too often, useless.

rawjoe people do see that as their goal .. i doubt anyone here has bucked up 3k for their training if they have i have never seen anyone post or gush about it.

everyone has a right to make a living right? if harley an freelea can pull it off with some people and those people are happy with what they have received in return, my question is why do you have a problem with it?

i dont disagree with your feelings on the matter, personally i wouldnt pay someone 3k to teach me how to eat or exercise

but i also choose how i choose how to deal with it , and thats ignore what doesnt apply to me


rawjoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just wish others could see that Harley and
> Freelea's goal is to make money from the raw food
> movement. Subtle but effective marketing
> strategies involve creating and provoking response
> through controversial videos and topics. This is
> what an effective internet marketeer does, they
> will make it look like they have nothing to offer
> on the surface but deep down they are heavily
> financially invested in the 80/10/10 lifestyle.
> This is why any thread over on 30BAD will be
> deleted if you are having problems with the high
> carb lifestyle. I have been raw for 10 years now,
> massive difference between being an athlete and
> training one. From Harley's videos i can tell he
> has a LOW knowledge when it comes to nutrition and
> training. I never use supplements but i would
> rather buy a bag of goji berries rather than being
> scammed 3000 dollars by a huxter. Other raw
> personalities are just as bad cashing in on the
> fads with 6000 dollar retreats just to fast.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

At one stage in my life, I had such an affinity with the ocean that I could almost worship it as my God. Once I swam out in the harbour in the middle of the night, where I could see all the flickering lights of the city above the cliff. Maybe I was just plain stupid, or just so very lucky that I was sooo skinny that I wasn't considered any good for food, or maybe I was at one with the sea. It was the early 70's, and of discovering the age of aquarius. But...it didn't come, at least in the way we thought. I still believe it will, and the timeline is just a little longer than we expected.

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cherimoya, you have not provided any solid
> material, but opinions. If 811 causes health
> problems, show us the evidence. Don't just state
> that you met many people with such problems, but
> give a direct link to the evidence that one can
> verify and study. In particular, I would be
> interested to read a story and see pictures of a
> person after at least one year on 811, when they
> were suffering health problems, and then after one
> year after when they changed from 811.

Hi Rawgosia,
From my experiences with the 'vegetarian', vegan, 801010, raw vegan, cooked food monivorism/Standard human diet,....my experiences corroborate fully with what cherimoyakid has been sharing with you and this site. I'm talking about the problems, both with my personal experience with the 801010 style diet and what I've known of others, with rare exception. The cooked food omnivorism diet(which includes some raw fruit and vegetables, as well as cooked) is clearly by far the best for me, and interestingly for apparently the vast majority of humanity, at a minimum.

Life is about balance, appropriate quantities, appropriate qualities, and appropriate intervals. Live to perform and to maintain your body well. Consume to perform and maintain. Your body reveals. Your body reveals by response with the state of integrity of your tissues, especially the integrity of the skin and teeth.

Typical problems in the 801010 raw vegan vegan directions are(which weren't a problem while on the standard human diet): dental problems, weaker skin, cracks in skin such corners of mouth, hands, where the toes meet the foot, and just not 'feeling right'. Eating massive volume of raw food is not how we've evolved as a species. Hence why our bodies thrive with cooked food, and eating lesser quantities than raw, and eating a balance of foods that 'feels right'.

We owe a substantial amount of our unique evolution in becoming our species to the use of tools and fire.

Proof? Live your life, your body reveals. Some people are different, there will be variance,....but standards are what they are, due to consistency of results.

I'm living life, and enjoying it, physically, mentally, and more.

Yeah but they still suck. They're not even nice people, let alone attractive or intelligent. The only way they can make their mark in this world is by bullying, creating illusion, and latching on to other people's ideas. The belief that they're elite athletes or anything more than a pair of low-rent hillbillies is a huge myth concocted by their transparent BS. Use the sepia effect much? The trailer park needs to move back to the trailer park. There might be a pot of gold in this community, but they do not deserve to get their greasy little paws all over it. It should go to good people who are sincere. We don't deserve these angry little Fox News knock-offs. It's time to restore peace. They have nothing to do with that.

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rawjoe people do see that as their goal .. i doubt
> anyone here has bucked up 3k for their training if
> they have i have never seen anyone post or gush
> about it.
>
> everyone has a right to make a living right? if
> harley an freelea can pull it off with some people
> and those people are happy with what they have
> received in return, my question is why do you have
> a problem with it?
>
> i dont disagree with your feelings on the matter,
> personally i wouldnt pay someone 3k to teach me
> how to eat or exercise
>
> but i also choose how i choose how to deal with it
> , and thats ignore what doesnt apply to me
>
>
> rawjoe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just wish others could see that Harley and
> > Freelea's goal is to make money from the raw
> food
> > movement. Subtle but effective marketing
> > strategies involve creating and provoking
> response
> > through controversial videos and topics. This
> is
> > what an effective internet marketeer does, they
> > will make it look like they have nothing to
> offer
> > on the surface but deep down they are heavily
> > financially invested in the 80/10/10 lifestyle.
> > This is why any thread over on 30BAD will be
> > deleted if you are having problems with the
> high
> > carb lifestyle. I have been raw for 10 years
> now,
> > massive difference between being an athlete and
> > training one. From Harley's videos i can tell
> he
> > has a LOW knowledge when it comes to nutrition
> and
> > training. I never use supplements but i would
> > rather buy a bag of goji berries rather than
> being
> > scammed 3000 dollars by a huxter. Other raw
> > personalities are just as bad cashing in on the
> > fads with 6000 dollar retreats just to fast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 05:11PM by HeavenHands.

HH,

I'm not arguing with you as your point pertains to personalities and not diets. That said, they have been relatively quiet here. Perhaps they have bigger fish to fry (just a metaphor, I'm just talking turkey ) Soo much attention on this forum wasted to people who aren't even posting here? Hello???

Why not wait until they post and confront them then? Why all of the histrionics? If you have a problem Harley, call the guy. Stop polluting the forum? Is that too much to ask? Jesus (just an expression also, I'm a humanist), the purpose of this forum is to collectively explore our raw vegan journey's together. And also we are expected to land more light than heat when we post. Rawgosia made a wonderful thread the other day. And I strongly recommend it.

Can we give the paleotrolls a rest? Just asking.

Paul

Quote

Can we give the paleotrolls a rest?

I dunno--let's ask Toolsnfire, or, "I wonder why he/she chose that for a username at a vegan forums?"

Ha I just joined the forum and know exactly who you are talking about, this Harley and Freelea, they are everywhere. I personally do find their forum trolling kind of annoying, because they do seem to be a little single-minded in their approach and their videos do seem to be pretty much just a statement of their opinion and possibly an advertisement, Some stuff I agree with, some stuff I don't. I guess the fact that we all know who they are means that they have suceeded in their business, they have got our attention. Also I'd like to point out they make no apologies for being who they are and their tough approach, I think it is more of a personality thing as Paul stated.
Who really cares though? I'm sure that Harley doesn't care if we sit here complaining about him. I don't care if he wants to post links all over the internet, I usually just ignore them. If I have a heap of time and they sound interesting I might watch them, but usually not the whole vid because I would rather form my own opinions than listen to someone rant about their own. But I guess its his right to post videos, however annoying they might be, and his right to advertise indirectly (if he wasn't allowed, the mods would delete his account or something wouldn't they?)

I just wish there were more Aussie voices in the Raw world, who do advocate lower fat but aren't as pushy as them. For me personally that tough attitude can only go so far, I don't want to spend a health journey beating myself up. That is why I'd never buy their stuff or get coached by them, they would probably take down one's self worth too much. And for me this journey is about improving self worth and overall health & being bloody happy!

ToolsnFire (),

You have not read the discussion carefully. I have not asked for a proof (they do not exist in empirical sciences), personal opinion (everyone has one), but hard-core empirical evidence (which can be looked at and studied).

Cheers,
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams