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been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: lbanks ()
Date: March 06, 2012 11:47PM

i've been vegan for about 6 months now, and one food that i MUST have everyday is mushrooms...

i eat RAW portobello and shiitake mushrooms like clockwork. i just snack on them all day... for a while i was using raw, freshly-ground almond butter on them, but i recently discovered Nutiva's Coconut Manna (which is AMAZING)

so i was just doing a little reading, and from what i understand, mushrooms should always be cooked before consuming... what do you guys think about that? i know if i eat too many of the mushrooms, i get a stomach ache, but i figured that was just due to the raffinose (that undigestible sugar) content.

any thoughts?

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: phantom ()
Date: March 07, 2012 01:44AM

I've always eaten raw mushrooms to no ill effect, and they are used quite commonly in raw gourmet. I've worked in raw restaurants with people who eat them constantly, again without any problems.

Are they IDEAL? I don't really know. They can be a great source of vitamin D, and wild mushrooms are often ~PACKED~ with all sorts of amazing immunostimulants...

I know that non-organic mushrooms are liable to absorb a lot of toxins, so I would either skin them or get organic, if possible.

In my experience, craving certain raw, whole foods and eating them compulsively is usually just the body delighting in an abundance of necessary nutrients.

Don't eat gallerinas. ^.~

---

In other news, I heard a rumor that mushrooms were recently reclassified as kingdom: animalia?! Can anyone verify this?!

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 07, 2012 11:14AM

it's risky, but probably not as risky as some claim. There is a book called Becoming Raw by Vesanto Melina and Brenda Davis. See pages 231-233 at a Barnes and Noble for more detail. But bottom line, raw mushrooms contain a class of toxins called hydrazines which are carcinogenic and mutagenic in animal tests (not supporting, just reporting) and lab reports. The human data isn't as strong as the animal data. Davis and Melina report a Swedish risk assessment for a hydrazine called agaritine would produce a lifetime cancer risk of 2 in 100,000 based on a 1 tablespoon per day consumption. That's not radically high. But cooked mushrooms have very powerful anti-cancer effects (anti-aromatase, anti-angiogenesis, other). So, to say that the whole food is cancerous maybe overly simplistic. Davis and Melina say the verdict is mixed. Marinating may be a raw way to reduce hydrazine risks from raw mushrooms. I would encourage you to look at the 2 pages if you have a Barnes and Noble near you or better order the book. It's a great resource.

Paul

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: phantom ()
Date: March 07, 2012 12:55PM

Interesting! I do always marinate them. smiling smiley

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 07, 2012 01:07PM

phantom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've always eaten raw mushrooms to no ill effect,
> and they are used quite commonly in raw gourmet.
> I've worked in raw restaurants with people who eat
> them constantly, again without any problems.
>
> Are they IDEAL? I don't really know. They can be a
> great source of vitamin D, and wild mushrooms are
> often ~PACKED~ with all sorts of amazing
> immunostimulants...
>
> I know that non-organic mushrooms are liable to
> absorb a lot of toxins, so I would either skin
> them or get organic, if possible.
>
> In my experience, craving certain raw, whole foods
> and eating them compulsively is usually just the
> body delighting in an abundance of necessary
> nutrients.
>
> Don't eat gallerinas. ^.~
>
> ---
>
> In other news, I heard a rumor that mushrooms were
> recently reclassified as kingdom: animalia?! Can
> anyone verify this?!



So all this talk about how good Reishi and Chaga are for the immune system is pure rubbish?

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 07, 2012 01:28PM

Reishi and Chaga are not typically had raw. Traditionally, they are dried and pulverized. In modern clinical use, they are fermented and their polysaccharides isolated out.

I eat raw mushrooms seldom--I was brought up to eat mushrooms cooked or marinated or pickled. Hmmm, Perfect Pickler, I know what's up next for you!

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 07, 2012 01:29PM

phantom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting! I do always marinate them. smiling smiley

Phantom,

Good. Studies are limited but Davis & Melina speculate that acid conditions(e.g. marinating in lemon juice or vinegar in open air help to disappate the agaritine. Seems like a reasonable precaution for a food that has limited if any human data behind the supposed risk. At the end of the day, each of us has to make our own individual risk calculation, whether consciously or otherwise.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 07, 2012 01:30PM

Oh, do it Tam! They are so incredible fermented. I think I might break out my jar...

I usually marinate them but I also like them sliced raw in salad or ground with veggies into pate. They don't upset my system at all and I tend to digestive issues with a few foods and food combos.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 07, 2012 02:39PM

I too, have been told not to eat them raw, but I love them, they don't upset me, so I will continiue to eat them raw.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: phantom ()
Date: March 07, 2012 10:24PM

I have to get on the fermented mushrooms wagon?! Awesome info! I love this forum! <3

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 07, 2012 11:53PM

What are the effects of fermenting on the polysaccharides? That is the question.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 08, 2012 02:55AM

What the hell are those things, the 'polysaccharides'??? God, why does everything have to be so complicated! I agree that some fungi are dangerous, but the eating variety are fine. If they don't make you sick, or have any other side effects, than what's the problem!

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 08, 2012 08:06AM

geo,

They're the cancer fighting chemicals in medicinal mushrooms--and it isn't complicated: Nature provides smiling smiley

Duke,

Fermentation allegedly makes these potent chemicals more bioavailable. There are several applications of this process, the Japanese cancer protocol Biobran; having a base of fermented rice bran, being one example.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 08, 2012 12:37PM

Ok I didn't know that thx Tam smiling smiley Does anyone know what cooking does to them, as cooked mushies have a different flavour. Like, does it increase or decrease the bioavailability of polysaccharides?

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: March 08, 2012 12:55PM

i cant do mushrooms raw no way no how ..gag reflex makes me wanna hurl smiling smiley i can eat them cooked or dehyrated or marinated

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 08, 2012 02:28PM

geo,

Decreases slightly, as mushrooms aren't supposed to be cooked to death.

Interestingly, into the early 19th century, mushrooms were cooked for hours on end to dissipate their supposed "noxious qualities." I cannot imagine how gut- churningly nasty such a dish might have been!

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 08, 2012 02:49PM

the wonderful thing about mushrooms is that they are a food that has health benefit far beyond its nutritional profile. In Super Immunity, Dr. Fuhrman mentions that well beyond their anti-oxidant content, mushrooms contain aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase is an enzyme that a breast cancer tumour uses to convert other hormones into estrogen to grow if there is not enough estrogen present. Mushrooms esp common white button mushrooms are full of aromtase inhibitors that block the enzyme (see pp69-72). In one recent study, just 10 grams of mushrooms per day reduced breast cancer risk 64 percent. And its synergistic. Those who took green tea had an 89 percent decreased breast cancer risk for premenopausal women and 82 percent decreased risk for post menopausal women.

Some pretty exciting stuff... mushrooms!! smiling smiley

Paul

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 08, 2012 03:08PM

Clarification, above post... those who took mushrooms and green tea.

They also contain angiogenesis inhibitors... substances that keep cancer tumours from getting a new blood supply that it needs to grow!!! Mushrooms!!! love em.

low fat, low calorie, cheap, delicious.... hmmm I don't need any more.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2012 03:13PM by pborst.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 09, 2012 02:13AM

Hmmm that's amazing. I remember that some had said any mushies were poisonous and wouldn't eat them.

Tam - I can't imagine either, God they must have been toxic being cooked for so long, there'd be nothing left but liquid. What about only heating them abit? I must admit that I do like them cooked abit. I really liked those small button mushies, you know, they call them champions or something (I'm a really bad speller haha).

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 09, 2012 02:16AM

Oh Paul, do different varieties have different theraputic qualities, apart from the white button variety you mentioned?

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: phantom ()
Date: March 09, 2012 02:48AM

I know that if you buy shiitakes, the best way to get them is grown on hardwood. It's called "Donko shiitake."

...and in other news, I saw a guy with an apron that said, "Shiitake happens." grinning smiley

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 09, 2012 08:50AM

geo,

I liked cooked mushrooms, too, but cooked briefly; IMO, certain mushrooms[enoki, eringi, shiitake] aren't palatable totally raw. But those standard button mushrooms--champignons--are so sweet and tender when fresh, they're delightful raw smiling smiley

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 09, 2012 11:10AM

If we have miso soup the broth is hot but not boiling hot and that's enough to heat up enoki mushrooms, green onion and fresh sea veggies sufficiently. It's not exactly "cooked" but not totally raw either.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 09, 2012 11:24AM

geo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh Paul, do different varieties have different
> theraputic qualities, apart from the white button
> variety you mentioned?

That's my understanding and why you should eat a variety. For just fighting breast cancer, nothing tops the basic button. It had been trashed for low nutrient content by Joel Fuhrman before the latest research. Come to find thought that it is much better than shitake for it's aromatase-inhibiting properties. In Super Immunity Joel summarizes the degree of aromatase-inhibiter by type of mushroom according to the research (page 71)

High anti-aromatase activity: white button, white stuffing, cremini, portobello, reishi, maitake

Mild anti-aromatase activity shiitake, chanterelle, baby button

Little or no anti-aromatase activity: oyster, wood ear.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, anti-aromatase is just one of many therepeutic benefits of mushrooms. Prior to the latest research, I only ate shiitake and oyster and ignored white button based on anti-cancer properties. Turns out all mushrooms are good. My favorites are white button, shiitake, maitake, and oyster. I love oyster, was sorry to see it lose but, it's great that the cheapest most common mushroom also provides good protection against breast cancer. If you don't have a copy of Super Immunity, I encourage to browse it at a Barnes and Noble. GOMBS = greens, onions, mushrooms, beans/berries, nuts/seeds. It's Fuhrman's latest emphasis for us to the best foods for the basis of our diet. And yeah, some of it is cooked in his plan, but doesn't have to be. If you like beans, sprout some lentils, adzukis, and mung beans. I just did my first batch and love them on salads.

Paul

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 09, 2012 05:01PM

Thx heaps Paul, great info that I'll copy/paste to my 'academic source info' file. I'm as surprise as you are about the oyster mushies, as they are really tasty hey! However, they are exy here in Oz, bout twice the price of the white button variety. If I had the room I'd grow my own, as after a good downpour followed by a clear sunny day, I find heaps of field mushies in the paddocks. They taste so good raw, and much better than even the organic store bought, but I guess that applies to all home grown produce hey!

Phantom - Shiitake Happens...whateva do you mean lol, very funny smiling smiley

I agree Coco, and even Prof Arnold Ehret recommended steamed vegies sometimes, and was to do with the heat releasing the natural sugars or something like that.

I don't know about you, but I genuinely like the flavour of most raw vegies now'a'days, but I still use a little condiments to spice it up, and sometimes I'll add a little semi-cooked carrot, sweet spud or pumpkin for variety and taste. I don't really believe that adding some semi-cooked food would be the 'thin edge of the wedge' where I'd eventually be eating mostly cooked food. That might apply to someone new to raw, before their taste buds have had a chance to get used to the new flavours etc.

Joke...What do you get when you cross an owl with a skunk?
Answer...A bird that stinks, but doesn't give a hoot smiling smiley

Cheers, geo x

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 09, 2012 07:16PM

geo,

grinning smiley

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: phantom ()
Date: March 10, 2012 03:05AM

This thread has turned into an amazing source of information.

Tonight, I ate some raw criminis, marinated in ACV and liquid aminos... YUM! grinning smiley

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 10, 2012 04:23AM

I think the benefits of polysaccharides and thus the whole purpose of eating mushrooms (at least to me) will be lost during the fermenting process. Remember, they're sugars.

So no to fermenting mushrooms..imo.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 10, 2012 09:17AM

Duke,

The fermentation process does not neutralize the polysaccharides, but boosts their bioavailability. These are metabolic sugars; they respond differently to fermentation than simple sugars do.

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Re: been eating raw mushrooms but heard that's bad...?
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 10, 2012 12:17PM

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duke,
>
> The fermentation process does not neutralize the
> polysaccharides, but boosts their bioavailability.
> These are metabolic sugars; they respond
> differently to fermentation than simple sugars do.

I used common sense rather than scientific proof and studies to reason with you on this. I think you're wrong the byproduct of sugar fermentation are ethanol alcohol and acids.

The sugars are gone, they're no more poly or di or mono, they become ethanol and acids.

Check it out yourself or correct me by stating your reference.

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