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Question...
Posted by: HeavenHands ()
Date: March 08, 2012 02:17PM

If the raw vegan community has leaders who relentlessly harass people at non-raw vegan sites, why are so many in the raw vegan community surprised when people from those sites come to raw vegan forums and do the same to them, albeit in a much more toned down and civil manner? This site is reaping what Durianrider and the rest of the raw vegan Hitler youth have sown. Did you honestly expect anything different? If we want respect, we should probably start supporting "gurus" who know how to give it. Those idiots go around the internet trying to ruin other people's communities. Do you honestly expect the same not to happen in return? Do you see yourselves as a vaunted, God ordained community that's beyond reproach?

And no, I'm not here to give you a hard time in revenge for what that fool and his minions have done. Any inspection of my comment history will clearly reveal the truth.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: March 08, 2012 03:00PM

perhaps you saw another side of Cherimoya then anybody else , i cant speak for anybody else but i ddidnt see him coming here being "toned down or civil mannered" honestly he seemed like he was just reflecting what he hated most and becoming that which he hated

The only guru I support is John Kohler, the owner of this site, I support him thru my purchases of his online store of equipment

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Jgunn ()
Date: March 08, 2012 03:45PM

that said grinning smiley

shameless plug for John's channels !

he has some really great vids and his positive upbeat energy is alway a joy to watch smiling smiley

[www.youtube.com] - growingyourgreens

and

[www.youtube.com] - okraw !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 08, 2012 03:51PM

Love his videos Jo. I pass along his site to any and everybody looking for juicers, etc. He's got the best comparision vids and charts and great prices. I really appreciate everything he does to support healthy living. Those gardening videos of his, wow. He turned me on to moringa, I'm going to try greenhouse growing that some day.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Prana ()
Date: March 08, 2012 04:03PM

HeavensHands, if it is your intention to punish this forum for the actions of DurianRiders and other, expect that your efforts will evoke an appropriate response from me.

Just because DR may have abused some other forums, that does not give those forum members the right to come here and abuse this forum. And, though those people will see DR as the source of their abuse, I see the abuse rendered here as coming from CK and others who play his game. If you need to play CK's game also, expect a similar outcome for yourself. Consider this your first and only warning.

I don't care what DR did to your forum. I do care what you do here. I have no control over DR or what another forum does with him, and as long as he is not abusing people here, he is welcome to continue as a member here. On the other hand, I can do something about people who are abusive here.


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Re: Question...
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: March 08, 2012 04:33PM

"Raw vegan Hitler youth!" LOL!

(I would love John K. a wee bit more had he responded to one of my questions I posted on Youtube but perhaps he didn't see it...)

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 08, 2012 04:35PM

BW I got a response to one thing but not to something else, I get the impression that he's very busy and spends as much time outside and as little time online as possible winking smiley.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Tamukha ()
Date: March 08, 2012 07:24PM

HeavenHands,

Quote

This site is reaping what Durianrider and the rest of the raw vegan Hitler youth have sown

Is this sort of language necessary to make a point? Really?

Also, why is Harley--who, whatever his other characteristics, is a staunch raw foods vegan--more deserving of your ire than a paleo person that comes here in apparent sincerity, only to stealthily introduce controversy into our forums and break our rules?

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Re: Question...
Posted by: pborst ()
Date: March 08, 2012 07:57PM

I think Harley could get overboard sometimes. When he was in a snit over Wolfe, he'd stay on it. That said, he never tried to violate TOS wrt to veganism which makes him different than the paleotrolls.

I agree with Prana that the premise that has been offered that two wrongs make a right is itself wrong. Presumably, if there was a place to retaliate against Harley it would be at his forum... but then he wouldn't permit it.. so it comes here.

I agree with Geo's sentiment on the other thread that I don't like the conflict inherent in these things. but that said there is another sentiment that if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.

I don't want to debate veganism when I come here. I have other places to do that.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2012 07:58PM by pborst.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Molli ()
Date: March 08, 2012 09:30PM

I come here for information. The posts that feel confrontational to me I try to ignore. So I guess I shouldn't add my two cents here .. but I just have to say .. some of y'all crack me up here! LOL I appreciate this site ...

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Re: Question...
Posted by: rzman10001 ()
Date: March 08, 2012 09:50PM

With my limited exposure I have not found DR to be a problem and infact I love his video's that I have seen. I have herd some of them are not good/negative though. So he is just a person and makes mistakes. I love whistle blowers though and that is what I really like about him. While DW seems to have the right intentions and a passion for the raw lifestyle he blabs on about stuff with seemenly no evidence lol. AND, the people that follow him seem to be just so gullable and almost in love with the guy. We should all be glad that someone is doing the work for us and exposing people in this community that might be somewhat a fraud. Luckily I have enough common sense to not listen to snake oil salesmen lol. And that is what DW sounds like sometimes to me. Just my opinion, see ya later.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: WanderRA ()
Date: March 08, 2012 10:03PM

HeavenHands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the raw vegan community has leaders who
> relentlessly harass people at non-raw vegan sites,
> why are so many in the raw vegan community
> surprised when people from those sites come to raw
> vegan forums and do the same to them, albeit in a
> much more toned down and civil manner? This site
> is reaping what Durianrider and the rest of the
> raw vegan Hitler youth have sown. Did you honestly
> expect anything different? If we want respect, we
> should probably start supporting "gurus" who know
> how to give it. Those idiots go around the
> internet trying to ruin other people's
> communities. Do you honestly expect the same not
> to happen in return? Do you see yourselves as a
> vaunted, God ordained community that's beyond
> reproach?
>
> And no, I'm not here to give you a hard time in
> revenge for what that fool and his minions have
> done. Any inspection of my comment history will
> clearly reveal the truth.


Very well said.

The sad thing is DR has done some excellent videos, and certainly helped steer me into a better direction.

It's the Wolfe bashing I cant do, it's calling anyone who's not anorexic overweight I cant do, it's the fitness-is-all-you-need-for-health I cant do. The guy has an extremely black and white view of things.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: March 10, 2012 11:32AM

Yes, I believe you're right Paul, that since they cannot carry on at DR's forum they come here. It's becoming more and more obvious, as their posts are generally contentious in nature. I guess the only thing we can do is not to react and ignore them. I'm certainly not going to leave this informative and friendly forum smiling smiley

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 10, 2012 11:46AM

say geo; who's the invisible enemy you guys keep speaking of? So far all the people i have met over here are so loving and nice.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: Duke ()
Date: March 10, 2012 11:49AM

rzman10001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With my limited exposure I have not found DR to be
> a problem and infact I love his video's that I
> have seen. I have herd some of them are not
> good/negative though. So he is just a person and
> makes mistakes. I love whistle blowers though and
> that is what I really like about him. While DW
> seems to have the right intentions and a passion
> for the raw lifestyle he blabs on about stuff with
> seemenly no evidence lol. AND, the people that
> follow him seem to be just so gullable and almost
> in love with the guy. We should all be glad that
> someone is doing the work for us and exposing
> people in this community that might be somewhat a
> fraud. Luckily I have enough common sense to not
> listen to snake oil salesmen lol. And that is
> what DW sounds like sometimes to me. Just my
> opinion, see ya later.

are you implying that Durian Rider is a match for David Wolfe?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 11:51AM by Duke.

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Re: Question...
Posted by: HeavenHands ()
Date: March 10, 2012 01:31PM

I'll respond to this and then will respectfully leave this site for good. I never said that 2 wrongs make a right. I simply asked, "did you expect anything different?" We constantly preach tolerance, compassion, etc., yet you (not we) openly support "gurus" who have none of that, thus rendering the "tolerance/compassion" line nothing more than an obvious trope. You get what you give. I've noticed that this is how the world works. If RV leaders go around making enemies on our/your behalf, it's likely that those enemies (who are actually very nice people) will come knocking on our door someday. It's a shame that we can't support leaders who are intelligent and capable of respectfully (and therefore persuasively) disagreeing with others. Whatever happened to diplomats and bridge builders? Whatever happened to subtlety and the use of patience and charm in getting one's way? I suspect that if we had some of that, we would get more of the same in return. I also believe that a lot more people would be open to exploring raw vegan foods if not the comprehensive lifestyle. All I said is that people get what they give. If you give respect, compassion, and understanding you get the same in return. If you give the opposite, same thing. However, when I look at this site and other RV sites, I can safely say that you have not received what your relentlessly angry and bullying leaders give. You've been let off quite easily. I'll also ask why you support leaders who are clearly so unhealthy. The behavioral traits that we see are symptomatic of poor physical health that's likely rooted in nutrient deficiency. The irritability, the anger, the dishonesty, the lack of empathy, the complete absence of calm, the fragility of ego...all of these are traits that I associate with people lacking vital nutrients.

I don't want to be a part of any community that openly supports leaders like those that you support. They make a living not from celebrating a lifestyle, but instead through tearing down the lifestyle preferences of others. Do I believe that my way is correct? Yes, but I also know that nothing will change people other than the slow passing of time. To force it in the manner of your leaders is to only create chaos and ill-health. They remind me of racists and homophobes, never focused on what makes their lives beautiful, but instead forever obsessed with what they myopically see as the ugliness of other people's lives. Sorry, but that is neither healthy, interesting, or anything but a veiled form of narrow-mindedness and bigotry. I prefer to ignore people like that, if they and their acolytes will allow me.

P.S. My apologies for not responding to some of this stuff more promptly. I've been very busy. Recently closed on a small farm and am putting in long hours to get ready for the season. Have fun on the internet!



Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HeavensHands, if it is your intention to punish
> this forum for the actions of DurianRiders and
> other, expect that your efforts will evoke an
> appropriate response from me.
>
> Just because DR may have abused some other forums,
> that does not give those forum members the right
> to come here and abuse this forum. And, though
> those people will see DR as the source of their
> abuse, I see the abuse rendered here as coming
> from CK and others who play his game. If you need
> to play CK's game also, expect a similar outcome
> for yourself. Consider this your first and only
> warning.
>
> I don't care what DR did to your forum. I do care
> what you do here. I have no control over DR or
> what another forum does with him, and as long as
> he is not abusing people here, he is welcome to
> continue as a member here. On the other hand, I
> can do something about people who are abusive
> here.

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