there is so much strife going on in the world ,

i have been away from the forums a few weeks dealing with a real life friend in emotional crisis, my friend is wanting to commit suicide on a daily basis , and it is taking all my energy and love right now to try and help them thru this

in the meantime i have been reading the forums, unable to respond much in any sort of helpful capacity, and seeing alot of anger and responses to anger and more anger

and i have to ask, how is this anger serving us? when you read or see soemthing on the internet or someone posts something that you may agree with or disagree with , is it serving you or mastering you?

i ask this from myself all the time. is my thread , response im about to make, what im reading .. is it serving me or mastering me

will it enrich my knowledge or do i have to all costs make my point to the detriment of others

just musing on my 2 cents.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Thx Jody, that really helps to put things into perspective, and what's really important. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree, or to be prepared to be wrong, and take responsibility for it.

jodi,
IMO your friend needs to be hospitalized.
I have been in a similar situation,and my "friend" drained me to the point of having my own long term crisis.
It needs professional help.

Vinny

I understand what you are saying Jodi. And I think there is a lot of truth in your observation. As I told BW, I'm trying to learn to disagree without being disagreeable. Prana has reminded us that this is not a debate forum. We're here to support each other's journeys. I think that helps to center the focus.

I do not think there is anything wrong with anger per se when someone trolls or launches a personal attack. But as Fresh has reminded me, sometimes the best move is not to take the bait or if it is truly serious, then report it rather than respond.

I agree the vitriole doesn't help discussion and fruitful dialogue.

Paul

Jodi, hugs; hope you make it through this period with your strength and your friend intact.

Thanks for posting this. Yes, something I will try to keep in mind.

Oh Jo... I understand why you're so willing to help this friend and I do hope what you're doing helps them pull through. Just remember that you can't fill a bottomless pit no matter how much you pour into it. Some things are not within our capacity to fix honey, take care of yourself first so you are strong and healthy enough to help others <3.

Jo, I think one of the reasons dander gets up on the forum is that most of us are here in the capacity of honest sharing and learning, we make ourselves vulnerable to eath other with our openness, you know? Then when someone comes into the fray and throws out barbs it feels really horrible. It's offensive and painful and so incredibly unexpected and unpleasant. This is a place of learning and healing for many, and there are certainly times when even the most calm and balanced gets set off by what's going on in their own lives and/or the frantic or angry energy that gets introduced here but generally even when upset people don't treat each other with less than kindness. Many differences of opinion get expressed in a communicative manner, we manage to work things out, agree to disagree, even when things get heated. Then you've got the few individuals who don't know how to express opinon as opinion but present it as fact and then brow beat those who don't share their experience or opinion. That's offensive, and people get offended and react.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2012 03:52PM by coco.

You are a true friend Jodi and many of us will send you and your friend healing and loving vibes.

Love,
Prism

Hmm...I don't really know exactly what you are asking. You sound like you are saying that too many people online are angry but don't people generally express anger in response to something they have read? I don't read many threads started in anger. Most of the anger is in response to another poster.

The problem is many-fold. Coming to an Internet forum to find solace is a bit of a stretch. My feeling is that the Internet attracts a lot of angry people and posts because as a society we are not socialized to express anger appropriately. And so the anonymity and distance from others allows for this sort of venting. As unpeaceful as it might be, I also think it's a bit therapeutic for those who would otherwise internalize it or act it out with others. Thank God even some of the twisted remarks are allowed in certain forums. Rather than being dangerous, I feel that they give expression and that allows the energy to be dissipated.

Another issue is that your perception of anger or disharmony might be much more heightened than someone else. I notice that some people get offended at strong opinions but although it might be annoying, I don't really get why some people are hair-triggered. I believe that it has to do with their pasts. A childhood with a smothering parent, in other words. I had that, also, and dislike that quality in people but only in real life. Online it's easier to take because I know I can log off at any time!

It really works both ways because ultimately, you decide how to react to an angry post. If you are really in equipoise, you don't have to create an external situation of harmony; you ARE harmony. But I realize that it's very hard to get to that level! I guess you have to decide what pasttimes to engage in because you cannot control what others do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2012 07:59PM by banana who.

I am so sorry you are going through this. You are a good friend to stick by and help.

When I am in a situaiton where someone and I don't see eye to eye. I think to myself that just because I don't agree with someone, doesn't make them wrong or vice versa.

Like a PP said. You do have to be prepared to be wrong sometimes.

I have had some interesting online conversations to say the least. I used to really try to convience someones point of view. I recently gave up, just because I saw this person wasn't really responding to what I said, no real uptake of information. I realized that to some it just may not matter, no new information is really desired. This had nothing to do with food, and not posted here, if anyone is interested.

I am mostly lonley these past few weeks, my significant other has been away, never realized how much he means to me, subtle things he does makes a huge difference, just didn't know.

I am too lonely to be mad at the moment.

Coco, yes, we do let out guard down on here cause mostly, the people here are genuine, loving kind people who are willing to share their experiences and wisdom. And it really rocks out boat when we are stabbed and feel the barbs of criticism.

BW, the fact that we are interpreting (usually) black text on a white background makes for many possible errors in understanding the person's meaning. And since WE are de-coding the message ourselves, can give rise to what is called 'transference' and 'counter transference'. Certain words that are used, a particular phrase etc., can trigger a memory, experience etc, in us, and therefore we misinterpret the meaning. It's no wonder we sometimes get a reply that says, 'I don't know what you mean', or 'where did that come from'.

Text messaging on our mobile (cell) phone is much worse, since we all usually abbreviate, and also use symbols to represent words or phrases. Man, what a problem it can be.

Hi Mislu, I'm sorry you feel lonely, I'm thinking of you, and hope your hub comes home soon

Jodi, what really helped me, when I was experiencing a really bad time, was that I was given hope. My case manager, on my first appointment said to me that things will get better. She said that things will change so don't give up. It took eighteen months, but things did slowly change. Of course, I was allowed to go at my own pace, so I didn't just sit back and think that others would do it all for me. No, in the end I did it for myself, but I had amazing support.

So that's all that I can give...To say that things WILL change, and not to give up, that's very important. I had my setbacks, but I owned them and kept facing forward. During one of my setbacks I wrote this peom....

It's not stop if you slow down
It's not step back if you stop
It's not a reversal if you step back,
with the intention of moving forward,
when you're better equipped to do so.

Cheers,
geo x

That is a cool poem, Geo! Yes, I think that cultivation of positivity is so important and sometimes the dark night of the Soul is followed by a complete Shift. And then you can never really lose that understanding; it's like riding a bike. So even while you may experience other dark times, you always have the understanding to ride it through.

Sometimes things are put in a clumsy way, sometimes it's completely innocent and the other person reads something bad into it...I just think that whether it's in real life or online, you can't rely on other people to soothe your soul. Sometimes it happens, but it's unpredictable. What I want is to have such equanimity that no matter what happens "out there" I am unshakeable...

vinny while i agree with you to some degre .. my friend would rather die then go bck to the hospital .. just a whle heaping bad experience there

thanks all for the well wishes, and good thoughts an prayers

bw .. not really sure why i brought this subject up .. although i focused it on the anger here i think i was really wondering about anger in general ..

my friend is so angry at the world , everything that is going wrong he is taking it almost ..no literaly on a personal level that i cant even fathom to understand

honestly he is just waiting for the world to implode on himself rather then just liv his life to the best that it can be right now

and that makes me really sad... that so much anger is controlling him

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jodi, I dealt with a similar friend. It was hard but she finally made it through and is doing much better. Just don't make yourself responsible for your friend. We can only help so much and in the end others make their own choices. Sometimes people also become psychic vampires and suck out all your energy with their codependent and woe is me attitude. Knowing when to let go or set bodies is important too! I know how u feel about the forums. Sometimes I still get angry and sucked in but I try to stay away from most inflammatory ...and only respond to the ones I see blatant discrimination or homophobia in. sending you love and patience! Hugs!

Hey Jgunn,

check this out:

[thework.com]

"The Work of Byron Katie is a way to identify and question the thoughts that cause all of the suffering in the world. It is a way to find peace with yourself and with the world."

"Katie saw that when she believed her thoughts she suffered, and that when she didn’t believe her thoughts she didn’t suffer. What had been causing her depression was not the world around her, but what she believed about the world around her. In a flash of insight, she saw that our attempt to find happiness was backward—instead of hopelessly trying to change the world to match our thoughts about how it “should” be, we can question these thoughts and, by meeting reality as it is, experience unimaginable freedom and joy. As a result, a bedridden, suicidal woman became filled with love for everything life brings."


Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> my friend is so angry at the world , everything
> that is going wrong he is taking it almost ..no
> literaly on a personal level that i cant even
> fathom to understand
>
> honestly he is just waiting for the world to
> implode on himself rather then just liv his life
> to the best that it can be right now
>
> and that makes me really sad... that so much anger
> is controlling him

Jodi,
I understand.
You know I have been in a similar space myself,and if I could identify only 3 things that finally got me out of it,they would be:

Consuming fresh veggie juices,particularly the greens
Walking out in nature
And reading the Bible,even if you dont understand it,but commiting to reading it on a daily basis.
And declaring to the universe that you will stick to those 3 things no matter what.

This excessive anger really sounds like a physical disorder.
I think it can be healed,just like a cut will heal itself if given the proper elements.

Vinny

Taking offense and reacting to another person in anger is a choice. Just as love is a choice. It is really that simply, although the world will try to make it seem very complicated.

Molli, I like that one, especially the last sentence!

Veganreikiangel (love that name), I wholeheartedly agree with you. Some people find a payoff in their wretched condition and its very easy to get sucked into trying to save them, only to have them give you 1001 reasons why it's hopeless. All they do is obscure your Light and feed off your positive energy. Of course, this is not everyone who is suffering. Some people just get off kilter and it can be helpful to feed them positivity. You'll know the difference if the person gets upset when you suggest ideas to lift them up (diet, quitting addictions,exercise). Then you know that they don't want to lift a finger to help themselves and just want pity and attention.

Jgunn, among other very bad things I did in my life, I failed to help a friend (did not take him seriously) who later commited a suicide. And I could have helped him, I think. I just have that 'talent', or ability to help other people (not so much to help myself, though). I remember I even asked him "should I try to help you or give up?". He said "I don't know". I was a little jelous, as he had been attracting all the girls and I thought he was faking this mental state a little bit in order to be the center of the girls' attention, as usual. I just replied "I will give up". I was wrong and he was a good friend. We were both very young (19).

Rab you don't know that, there's no way to say you had the power to change someone's mind like that. Death isn't a choice people make lightly.






Byron Katie's book changed my life, I love her.


Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Jgunn,
>
> check this out:
>
> [thework.com]
> B.pdf
>
> "The Work of Byron Katie is a way to identify and
> question the thoughts that cause all of the
> suffering in the world. It is a way to find peace
> with yourself and with the world."

Coco, have you read "A Thousand Words for Joy" by Katie? I am not a huge fan of The Work (I read an earlier book of hers, as well as listened to a CD of hers), but I liked the little essays in that book quite a bit. It came out in 2007. Eckhart Tolle is another real deal for me, as well as Gangaji.

I have a copy, it's on my reading list . I do love The Work, if I could remember to do it habitually I'd never get upset about anything, it's so incredibly effective for me.

Coco, I just don't get the whole "is it true?" thing. Yeah, some things are "true," at least temporarily. But even if they can be proven to be true, it still should not affect us. I like "The Four Agreements" because one of them is--"Don't take anything personally." It sounds simple, but when you apply it to any situation, you can realize that people's opinions are based upon their conditioning so it never has anything really to do with YOU, but rather, their experience about what you REPRESENT.

I like that "is it true" business but I can see how it wouldn't click for everybody. Many paths to one destination and all that, lots of ways to get to the same understanding.

This is one theory as to why people who feel everything is going wrong for them, and it does seem to be true, such as accidents like spilling coffee all over the table/floor and myself, stubbing your toe or the consequences of a poor decision.

My experience is that a person can be in such a state that they are always looking within themselves (introspection). So they're not fully aware of what's going on around them, since much of their attention is dealing within themselves and their thoughts. Therefore, accidents will happen due to a lack of attention of what they're doing or what's going on externally.

So, they will say that everything is going wrong for them, and their negative attitude is reinforced. Also, due to this lack of attention, less than optimum decisions are made that can lead to less than optimum consequences/outcomes.

Then, as they recover, their attention is slowly reversed. So, they are more aware to what's going on for them and around them. Hence, less accidents will occur, and better choices/decisions are made with better consequences/outcomes.

Anyway, accidents and less than optimum decisions/outcomes will continue to be made/happen, though not at the same frequency. And the person will find that they have much more time on their hands than they did, since their introspection has diminished. Also, when accidents do happen, their more positive outlook/mood will not attach as much meaning than it once did. They're more than likely to say 'oh well, let's just clean this up', or 'what can I learn from this'.

Moreover, from that point of achievement, it's very important to continue planning achievable goals to move ahead and away from the source of the stressors. Or, if that's not possible, to work on strategies to mitigate the effect of stress.

This may or may not improve a persons circumstances, but hopefully it may trigger other alternatives within a persons life circumstances that may help.

Cheers,
geo

byron katie i really gotta get my hand on some of those books

geo those are some very intresting introspectives and thoughts and i agree completely !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2012 05:27AM by Jgunn.

I don't own any book of katie. I only knew the link. Too many books!

I think it has to do with an equation of believes, expectations, and feedback. The feedback (what you tell yourself) being important. For example, one person could get stuck in traffic and suffer meanwhile other person could enjoy the journey no matter what.

Jo, I first got a copy from the library.

Panchito, I don't keep many books at home, it's one thing I pass along as soon as I've read. That said, I'll never get rid of the Byron Katie books I've got. I read them again and again and again.