I know that a rare few of you are still young and unaffected enough to appreciate this pic as I do. It's so beautiful to me. Look at the look on their faces, especially the youngster. I pray and pray and pray every day that whatever is contained in that look will someday literally become the world. Please!

[i.imgur.com]

P.S. It was the little guy's birthday and the fruit is his treat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 01:27PM by HeavenHands.

that is awesome !!! thanks for the share !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Aawwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Absolutely adorable.


My favorite raw vegan

I'm glad you guys enjoyed it!

I loved the picture - I very rarely click on any links so this was a good one. I feel sad that they are held wherever they are though - you can see the bars in the background - elephants are notoriously badly kept with a few notable exceptions.

I'm sorry HH - I'm not pouring cold water on it - I just don't like animals being caged much.

Nice pic. Thanks. Does Ludwig mean Louis in English?

I didn't even think about that. I just saw his face and what it conveyed in the moment. You're right to bring that up though. Not a big fan of zoos or any animal captivity.

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I loved the picture - I very rarely click on any
> links so this was a good one. I feel sad that
> they are held wherever they are though - you can
> see the bars in the background - elephants are
> notoriously badly kept with a few notable
> exceptions.
>
> I'm sorry HH - I'm not pouring cold water on it -
> I just don't like animals being caged much.

Thanks... delightful.

I don't know. Did you mean to ask if Ludwig means Louis in German? All I know is that Ludwig is Germanic and I'm pretty sure that the name Louis has origins in the Romance languages.

By the way, this pic was taken at the zoo in Munich and they're allegedly Asian elephants, but they don't look like the Asian elephants that I'm used to seeing. I'm no expert though.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice pic. Thanks. Does Ludwig mean Louis in
> English?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 11:28PM by HeavenHands.

Beautiful! What a little (maybe not so little) cutie.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

I tried to send you a message of thanks for your recent efforts to increase our standards in the alternative health community. Unfortunately, your inbox is full. I love you and what you do. You're COOL. If I wanted a guru besides myself and the elephants, I'd definitely pick you. Thanks!

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beautiful! What a little (maybe not so little)
> cutie.

@flipperjan, I agree. Elephants live longer and much healthier in the wild. They roam so many miles each day. In captivity they experience stress and poorer health since they can't engage in their natural activities.

I'm not too keen on zoos either. My philosophy though, and this applies to much of my life, is that the world is what it is. We're in a process of evolving from savage little organisms into sophisticated beings. That takes time. Someday we'll all evolve to the point where we have better, less questionable relations with animals. We're getting there. I have faith that despite the chaos of our current condition, we're headed in the right direction. No need to beat ourselves up over not being there yet. I know that I'm doing my part to help us evolve through direct action. So why sweat it? Living in the moment, just seeing the look on Ludwig's face in his moment and not worrying about politics and exerting my blahblahblah...it's a cool way to be which probably spreads more peace than any activism ever has or ever will.

How do you feel about people keeping pets? My cat showed up at my back door 11 years ago. He was hungry and cold. I brought him in, gave him some food, let him warm up, and tried to send him back to "freedom." The problem is that he wanted nothing to do with it. He wanted to stay with me. I've tried to let him go hundreds of times since, but he seems to like captivity and having relations with humans. How do you explain that? When you see a kitten like the one I linked below, do you live in the moment and enjoy a cute ball of fur, an innocent soul, or do you see an unhealthy prisoner/victim of cruel humanity? Both maybe? Which reaction will you feed into other people's minds? Will you think about their minds and how they feel? Just curious.

[cute-n-tiny.com]

RawPlease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @flipperjan, I agree. Elephants live longer and
> much healthier in the wild. They roam so many
> miles each day. In captivity they experience
> stress and poorer health since they can't engage
> in their natural activities.

Dogs and cats are domesticated animals and need homes. Over 5 millions dogs/cats are euthanized yearly in the U.S. due to the overpopulation crisis. It's important to always adopt/never buy from a breeder, and always spay/neuter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 09:35PM by RawPlease.

I don't like captive animals either, but sometimes zoo's are the only place where a certain species are kept, since the clearing of their habitat has made them almost extinct. Also, zoo's generally have a breeding program, where endangered species are helped to pro-create.

So, it's a case of 'don't throw the baby out with the bath-water' type situation I reckon.

There aren't enough compassionate and responsible people to give all cats and especially dogs decent homes. Many of them would unfortunately be better off dead. Animal domestication isn't a black and white concept where they're either domesticated or they're not. I have yet to meet an animal that's so domesticated that it can handle being ignored and isolated by its humans. None of them are so domesticated that they prefer torturous kibble over their natural diet either. My cat gets meat, both raw and cooked. Cats still display many traits which suggest that they would be fine on their own. In America they evolved on the street and survived by eating out of garbage cans. This means that our cat population has a system that's uniquely prepared to deal with all kinds of bacteria that would make us sick if not kill us. Every cat I've met is a great hunter too. They don't need homes. Our belief in their reliance on us is a product of human arrogance. Thankfully they're domesticated enough that if free they usually won't attack us in packs for a nice meal.




RawPlease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dogs and cats are domesticated animals and need
> homes. Over 5 millions dogs/cats are euthanized
> yearly in the U.S. due to the overpopulation
> crisis. It's important to always adopt/never buy
> from a breeder, and always spay/neuter.

Yes HH, all the so called 'wild' cats that I've encountered were big and fully self-sufficient. Survival of the fittest I guess.

I remember seeing the horror movie 'Dogs' at the drive-in theatre when I was in my teens. Right at the end it showed a domesticated cat letting out a ferocious howl. Which I guess was setting the scene for the next horrow movie 'cats'. I don't know if it was ever made, and I hope it never will. Like you say, imagine running packs of wild ferocious people eaters....

jalan

Since this post started off with elephants - have a look at this - amazing ability of elephants to 'know'

[delightmakers.com]

I'm only posting this because I'm not sure if there are people here who haven't heard this point of view. I'm not debating - only posting in case it's new info for anyone who will read this. I copy/pasted it for my own convenience of not having to compose it


Proponents of zoos like to claim that zoos protect species from extinction—seemingly a noble goal. However, wild-animal parks and zoos almost always favor large and charismatic animals who draw large crowds of visitors, but they neglect less popular species that also need to be protected. Most animals in zoos are not endangered, and while confining animals to zoos keeps them alive, it does nothing to protect wild populations and their habitats.

Returning captive-bred animals to the wild is, in most cases, impossible because animals who are reared in zoos are denied the opportunity to learn survival skills, can transmit diseases to their wild counterparts, and often have no natural habitat left to return to because of human encroachment. Breeding programs simply produce cute baby animals to attract zoo patrons and generate revenue, creating a surplus of unwanted adult animals. As a result, zoos often become extremely crowded, and older animals may be "warehoused" behind the scenes or shuffled off to shabby roadside zoos, animal dealers, or auctions.

According to a 2004 report by the World Conservation Union, the world's biodiversity is declining at an unprecedented rate primarily because of human activities that cause pollution, climate change, and the destruction of animals' habitats and because of the exploitation of animals for food, the pet trade, and medicine. Captive breeding does nothing to address these serious problems, which currently put more than 7,000 animal species in jeopardy of extinction. In fact, the many millions of dollars that zoos regularly squander—on redesigning enclosures that do little to nothing to improve animal welfare, erecting statues and amusement rides, and building gift shops and concession stands—would do far more to help animals if spent on habitat-preservation projects.

Warehousing animals for life is not the way to save them from extinction. Their salvation lies in protecting habitats, not in creating animal prisons. Instead of patronizing zoos, you can help animals by supporting organizations that work to protect captive animals from exploitation and preserve habitats.

Very beautiful story, thank you.

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since this post started off with elephants - have
> a look at this - amazing ability of elephants to
> 'know'
>
> [delightmakers.com]
> -gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisp
> erer/

LOL.

jalanutan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes HH, all the so called 'wild' cats that I've
> encountered were big and fully self-sufficient.
> Survival of the fittest I guess.
>
> I remember seeing the horror movie 'Dogs' at the
> drive-in theatre when I was in my teens. Right at
> the end it showed a domesticated cat letting out a
> ferocious howl. Which I guess was setting the
> scene for the next horrow movie 'cats'. I don't
> know if it was ever made, and I hope it never
> will. Like you say, imagine running packs of wild
> ferocious people eaters....
>
> jalan

What an adorable picture!-- shared (on F. :-)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

HeavenHands,

Thanks for your lovely words.

warm regards,
Gosia


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Hmmm, ok thx RawPlease for adding to what I know. Here in Oz, the zoo's actually do try to protect havitat as well as increasing the population and then they return the animal to the protected area, which is usually a national park that's protected. But of course a zoo is a business, and all of what you have stated is true to some extent or to a large extent depending on which zoo it is. It's very unfortunant that it goes on, but I'm seeing a lot more zoo's that are concerned for habitat. Here, only a half hour drive is the 'Australia Zoo', owned by the 'crocodile hunter' 'Steve Erwin' who lost his life a couple of years ago and his family. When they were cashed up, they would buy habitat, so that endangered species would have a chance.

It's good to know that progress is taking place in some areas.

Cheers, jalan

Jalan - did you see my link to the Elephant Whisperer - so amazing - we have much to learn from animals don't you think

Yes, I do believe we have much to learn from them. When I began my raw food journey, fish when I was swimming and birds in particular would seem to have no fear of me, and they would come quite close, even hoping up on my leg if I was sitting down. To me, it seemed that they were inquisitive, like they were thinking, 'Now he's different, I wonder what he's about', or that since I was changing my mind and body to become inline with nature and the resonance of the earth, that I was being accepted or something.

I certainly felt that I was and am becoming closer to all creation. I know it sounds a bit off the air, but not to me. I have a long way to go, but I know I will make it. Just because animals cannot speak or relate to us in the way we think they should, it doesn't mean they have no intelligence, does it?

I believe that humans have cut themselves off from the natural order and balance of things, and that 'garden of eden' the bible speaks about may not be only a fairy tale after all.

What do you think about it, I'd like to hear your thoughts?

cheers, jalan x

I think that as we developed a complicated language we probably lost other skills such as intuition, and an ability to 'know' things through some kind of telepathic link. We live in such a crazy, 'noisy' world that we never really listen or 'tune in'.

I practise reiki and sometimes when I am giving some one reiki I 'hear' a word or a sentence which I share with the person at the end of the session. Sometimes it might be a body part which needs attention or energy. I don't know - am I receiving 'help' or is it just wishful thinking.

But how often have you heard the phone go and thought that's so and so and it is. Often when I am thinking hard about my kids one of them will phone within a few minutes.

Well maybe elephants and other animals have this ability tens of times better - I wouldn't be at all surprised. Have you ever heard of Saun Ellis and his work with wolves - look it up if you like that kind of reading.

I think that animals have huge intelligence - and some much more so that we can even begin to imagine. This leads me on to thinking about what an abomination it is to do research on monkeys etc - but hey - we'd better not go there - such a painful and emotive subject.

Just a few quick thoughts in response to your question



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2012 05:18PM by flipperjan.

Thank you Philippa, I totally agree with you. And as far as our world of noise is concerned, I like to sit quietly, stop my thoughts and focus on all my senses. I can't explain how it makes me feel, relaxed, peaceful and at ease, for the beauty of our world is indeed magical.

And yes, intuition has all but been lost to humanity, but as you have said, we still have remnants of some form of telepathy. I haven't heard of Saun Ellis, but I'll check out his work with wolves, sounds interesting.

In the past, I've had some amazing experiences with animals, especially when I opted for an alternative hippie life-style in the early 70's. I remember, when I was backpacking through Indonesia, I visited a zoo and had an incredible experience with an old Orang-utan.

I won't relate it here, as it would take me ages to type, but even then, I knew that the Orang-utan was very intelligent. And recently I believe, the Orang-utan has been given the title of being the most intelligent of all the primates.

Cheers, jalan

This is a sad (and very well done) little video, but for me it really shows how connected humans and animals can be.

[www.youtube.com]

I've built relations with animals in ways that I've never come close to with human beings. If you ever go to a party and there's a dog there, I'm the guy off in the corner playing with the dog.

Thx also for posting that link HH, sad but beautiful. I had a similar relationship with a red persian puss that was our substitute child who we bought as a kitten and cared for until he died at 16yrs old from a brain tumor. I wouldn't have believed how we grieved for him, and it has given me a new outlook and attitude regarding the relationship btw humans and animals.

Cheers, jalan