GO/Fresh wrote:

“Low fat diets promote heart disease? Maybe u should qualify that statement. what kind of low fat diet?

My Response:
“Fuhrman believes a low fat vegan diet is unhealthy, and leads to increased risk of essential tremor, Parkinson disease, and cardiac arrhythmia, in older age. He sees many people in his practice with these ailments, following a low fat vegan diet.”

Please take note that “low fat vegan diet” was mentioned twice in one sentence.

GO/Fresh wrote:

“and you are talking about a cooked low fat diet which is what i mean by "qualify the statement" and that has NOTHING to do with a low fat raw vegan diet and fat levels and heart issues.”

Yes, Gary, it’s a “low fat vegan diet” and NOT a “low fat RAW vegan diet” and yes, there are No Studies that differentiate between Raw and Cooked, which is why the insistence by some that 10% Fat has a Scientific basis is Wrong. It is DG that claims a 10% Fat Diet is Ideal based on Cooked Vegan Diets and yet, the Pritikin Longevity Center changed their Fat Intake from 10% to more like 20% because they found a Low Fat (10%) Vegan Diet was NOT Healthy.

<<<when you and powerlifer say low fat diet, you both have not qualified your statement, and you therefore you imply by your omission that all low fat diets cause heart problems.>>>

Once again, my original response was “…low fat vegan diet…”! I don’t know how much more explicit I can be and I really don’t know how you want me to qualify my statement anymore than I already have. And then, for you to assume that “my omission that all low fat diets cause heart problems” somehow magically implies to all low fat diets is quite a leap my friend.

Once again, there is No Scientific basis for a 10% Fat Raw Vegan Diet and we know that a 10% Fat Vegan Diet is unhealthy, so it seems to me that if anyone wants to go around insisting that our Ideal Diet should have no more than 10% Fat, then it is up to them to Prove it and Not those who do Not insist it’s Ideal to Prove that it is Not Ideal.

My belief is that a Healthy % of Fat Intake is probably somewhere between 10 to 30 or maybe even as high as 40% as long as it’s Raw and that those who have weak Livers do better with the Lower %s. I would not be surprised that 20% Fat is Ideal, but if your Liver is impaired, then we need to reduce 20% to 10% on a Temporary basis until our Livers are healed.

So for those who probably have weak Livers and, therefore, do better on 10% Fat Diets, please stop insisting that 10% Fat is the Ideal Diet, unless, of course, they come up with a Study that supports those conclusions.

Peace and Love..........John

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My belief is that a Healthy % of Fat Intake is
> probably somewhere between 10 to 30 or maybe even
> as high as 40% as long as it’s Raw and that
> those who have weak Livers do better with the
> Lower %s. I would not be surprised that 20% Fat
> is Ideal, but if your Liver is impaired, then we
> need to reduce 20% to 10% on a Temporary basis
> until our Livers are healed.

> Peace and Love..........John

Good post John and i have similar beliefs in regards to fat intake. The problem with poor bile flow and fat malabsorption disorders is that although people may feel better on lower levels of fat, the need for fat and fat soluble vitamins actually increases due to how poorly they are being broken down and absorbed.

I wonder if low fat diets actually weaken the bodies digestion in the long run, it is a common complaint from many who follow low fat diets long term, the inability to digest fats many end up going completely overt free because they can no longer digest any fat rich source, which i suspect could be from the liver and gallbladder becoming lazy.

I actually have similar speculation and theories regarding other low macronutrient diets such as low carb. Ive seen a wealth of people who have no problems digesting carbohydrates then following low carb diets long term and suddenly becoming inable to tolerate or digest carbohydates.

Everyone is different though i guess when it comes to diet.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 10:06AM by powerlifer.

<<<I wonder if low fat diets actually weaken the bodies digestion in the long run, it is a common complaint from many who follow low fat diets long term, the inability to digest fats many end up going completely overt free because they can no longer digest any fat rich source, which i suspect could be from the liver and gallbladder becoming lazy.>>>

Yes, powerlifer, our bodies will atrophy whenever it’s no longer used and this is where the True Art of Healing comes into play - knowing when to Supplement and when to stop. Since Shelton used to point out that the more we eat of any food the better we get at processing it, my guess would be that Low Fat Diets beget Low Fat Diets, at least, on a short-term basis.

Peace and Love..........John

Jr,
U said above that we know that 10% fat is unhealthy,
And I say show me.
If u r using fuhrman then I again assert that
Neg health outcomes r due to cooked
And not lowfat.
If u have evidence,show me.
Also tell me where all this healthy fat is
Going to come from.

In regard to hh wt loss...
Just absurd blinkered logic.
X happened,then y happened.
Conclusion..it was the fat.
As if nothing else changed.

Finally, powerlifer says it's a common complaint by people who are low fat long term.
I ask you, what foods are you talking about?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finally, powerlifer says it's a common complaint
> by people who are low fat long term.
> I ask you, what foods are you talking about?

Yes from my own research i see that it is a common complaint from low fat dieters. Off the top of my head the most common fat rich food they claim intolerance too is usually nuts and seeds with oils coming not far behind.

Understandable as all 3 can be hard to digest for someone with sluggish digestion, do i feel personally that a low fat diet promotes bile stagnation, sure medical literature has already documented this.

Good to know John, i have a similar feeling about low carb diets like i say, from my time researching diet i have seen many expirament with atkins, standard low sugar candida and low carbohydrate diets, people with no carb tolerance or digestion issues and long term running into those exact problems.

Bear in mind there are some who naturally do better on different diets of course, i am in no way generalizing for everyone here.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 09:38PM by powerlifer.

<<<U said above that we know that 10% fat is unhealthy,>>

No gary…that is NOT what I said!!! I said and I will quote exactly what I wrote above, “we know that a 10% Fat Vegan Diet is unhealthy”!!!

So why are you twisting what I said and making up things?

<<<If u r using fuhrman then I again assert that Neg health outcomes r due to cooked And not lowfat. If u have evidence,show me.>>>

No gary!!!!!!!!! I am NOT making the claim that a Low Fat Diet is unhealthy. I never said that!!! Why are you lying and making up things? All I said and I will quote myself again since you seem to keep missing it - “we know that a 10% Fat Vegan Diet is unhealthy”!!!

I am NOT making any claims - you and all of the other Bozos who insist that 10% Fat IS Ideal are making the claims, so stop twisting what I said and stop asking me to Prove something that I didn’t even say. You Bozos are making all of the claims and it’s up to you to show me the evidence.

<<<Also tell me where all this healthy fat is Going to come from.>>>

Go suck an egg gary for I have no time for the disingenuous. You used to not be like this - what happened to you? Could it be - a Low Fat Diet?

Peace and Love..........John

PS Don't forget - we're all Bozos on this bus.

Pl, so u r implying that lowfat dieters have trouble digesting nuts and this means there is something wrong with their digestion, and their diet.
U cannot see that nuts are not proper food for humans for many reasons,thereby invalidating your premise.

So I left out the word vegan.
Same thing applies.
Show me.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pl, so u r implying that lowfat dieters have
> trouble digesting nuts and this means there is
> something wrong with their digestion, and their
> diet.
> U cannot see that nuts are not proper food for
> humans for many reasons,thereby invalidating your
> premise.

Why are nuts not a proper food for humans lol, show me some evidence.

Nuts and seeds along with fruits and vegetables are some of natures healthiest foods.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 10:10PM by powerlifer.

<<<So I left out the word vegan. Same thing applies. Show me.>>>

NO, IT DOES NOT!!!!!!!!

I am Not making any claims – you are!!!

Why are you asking me to show you what I do Not claim and then, you continue to refuse to show me what you do claim?

Low payoff for acquisition, bitter elements, low water content, bland taste,etc
observe other primates...

We know that a 10% vegan diet is unhealthy.

Those are your words above.

Please show me.
and stop yelling at me
Should I accuse u of being irritable due to your dietary fat content? This is a really sad accusation that people
Seem to like throwing around.

Instead of me sucking an egg, just tell me where the fat is going to come from in your 40% fat diet.
Simple question. Im just curious

10% fat vegan diet is unhealthy is your statement above
I left out the word fat above
Im on a phone,give me some slack.
That is ur claim
Im confused as to why u say ur making no claims.
I make no claims about 10%

<<<We know that a 10% vegan diet is unhealthy. Those are your words above. Please show me.
and stop yelling at me>>>

First of all, I’m not yelling at you just because I use CAPS. I use CAPS to simply emphasize the point that I’m trying to make and since 93% of all Communication is non-verbal, I use CAPS to make up for what is missing from a one on one conversation in person.

Secondly, I’ve already referenced to what Fuhrman believes and what happened at the Pritikin Longevity Center where they were forced to increase their Fat recommendations. That’s all I have, but I’m not the one who is insisting that 10% Fat is Ideal and once again, you keep skirting this issue, which makes me think that you are not really interesting in finding out the Truth.

In fact, every time you respond to this thread you NEVER ADDRESS THIS ISSUE and no, I am not yelling at you - I’m just trying to make sure that you see this as you keep avoiding it. Perhaps if we were talking face to face, I might be yelling at you by now.

Peace and Love..........John

I personally try to avoid pct fat numbers and as I just stated above, I do not claim 10% fat is ideal.
However what I consider a generic ideal diet might
Come out to 10%. dont know. I think focus on pct is incorrect.
Just as focus on calories or macros is incorrect.
So I dont know what u think im avoiding.
Regarding the fuhrman study, what im saying is
Unless it was all raw then the statement u keep
Making is wrong. The only statement u can
Make is some qualified statement regarding the study.
The dietary improvement may have due to fat,or not.
And it must at least stated as a cooked diet from which generalizations can not be drawn regarding all 10% fat

diets.

If there is a link id like to see the study.

I just read an article by fuhrman where he speaks about how nuts and seeds are essential for cardiac health and also about how a low fat diet resulted in negative outcomes.
what kind of low fat diet?
I guarantee its not all raw.
Therefore his statement is meaningless. What about
How nuts are essential?
Absolutely absurd.
to compare two populations based on one factor
And assume thats the cause?
Blind conceit.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Low payoff for acquisition, bitter elements, low
> water content, bland taste,etc
> observe other primates...

So basically no reason then, bitter elements are good for keeping the digestion and liver from becoming sluggish. I drink my water and eat water rich fruits so im sure a few nuts and seeds won't dehydrate me, i think the taste of nuts and seeds are great.

Nuts and seeds are great sources of vitamins and in particular minerals. Contain proven heart protective fats and so on. Also i am not a wild animal so what applies to them doesn't apply to me as far as im concerned, if people want to constantly pull the wild primates card get off the internet and start living in the wild. Wild primates don't blog or post on forums as far as i know.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 09:28AM by powerlifer.

Icould debate ur assertions,but I wont.
The point is that YOU
submitted nuts as an item whose difficulty of
Digestion was an indication of digestive problems
In a lowfat dieter, as if we were squirrels. They r not an ideal or required food source,thereby your original proposition is invalid.

No what i said was that nuts, seeds and oils were the most common foods that i have seen people complain intolerance too, most likely like i said because they are hard to digest.

My point was that digestion can become lazy and weak and i feel low macronutrient diets promote that long term regardless of the macronutrient whether its low carb, fat or protein, whilst initially some may feel better because they are eliminating hard to digest foods, the real root causes i.e poor digestion(low stomach acid, poor gut flora balance, poor bile flow) are not solved.

I used to hate nuts and seeds with passion because they made me feel like crap upon ingestion, but this was due to poor bile flow and digestive issues, not because nuts and seeds are bad because they contain the dreaded fats. The same dreaded fats which have been proven time and time again to be heart and brain protective.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 12:25PM by powerlifer.

You are contradicting yrself and agreeing with my point it seems.
Its not faulty digestion
Its the food
May as well claim that difficulty in eating tree bark
Is due to lowfat diet.
oil is food? I dont think so.
U might also refrain from making judgments
About peoples digestion, unless u are inside their body or taking stool samples

At that time when my digestion was that poor i couldn't digest fruit either so by your logic, fruit is now not a food.

If you can't digest a couple of nuts and seeds and aren't allergic or intolerant to them then id highly suspect that poor digestion is involved and usually stems from poor bile flow if fat intolerance/malabsorption is occuring. Nuts and seeds being fat rich are harder to digest foods but nothing a normal digestive system shouldn't be able to handle.

Also like i kindly said above i wasn't generalizing for everyone as i know everyone is different. But like i have said 5 times above these are the common problems i have found personally. Is it gospel NO i have already said above twice now that i wasn't generalizing for everyone so chill.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 12:46PM by powerlifer.

Thank u for sharing respectfully.
Btw, my assertion about food items suitability
Applies to
People
In good health