No matter how hard you try to understand and be understood by your SAD friends, it will never really work. It does to a certain point and then there is this essential difference, that stops all the communication. It is sad, but that is how things are.

These things are much more serious than I would like. By chosing a natural diet, we distance ourselves from most of the society. In some closer minded societies, our status and even our well being could be in danger due to the differences that may not be acceptable. In our "modern" civilization (is it?), things are not as bad...on surface.

I absolutely disagree. Just because you eat healthy, it doesn't follow that you distance yourself from society. Imo it's in your head, it is because you decide to approach society from the position of the outsider, and not simply because you eat a healthy diet.

Some of the things people say here makes me think whether they actually *want* to be outsiders, even if subconsciously, as if it makes them special. "Hey look everybody, I'm a vegan, I eat raw food and this is so good, and no one around me understands it, but that's because they are all stupid, whereas I'm the clever one, I undesrstand what they don't, I'm special." See the appeal? Sometimes it sounds as if people don't want to give up this special position, they outwardly complain about sad eaters while inwardly wishing them to remain sad, because if everybody became vegan and raw tomorrow, there would be nothing that made them special anymore.

Just a thought, not a conclusion, but something that came to my mind few times recently!


On the subject of friends though, it seems the fact that someone is my friend is the reason why, even if I don't follow or understand their diet, I accept it. And the other way around. This doesn't preclude me wanting the best for my friend of course, and the same is the case for the friend, but often achieving this means not pushing the matter, but let it play out by itself. Even generally the best way to get people to understand something is by example, not by words or persuasion. So I just eat my salads and my friend eats his chips, and we chat about something pleasant and enjoy each others company, and next day i notice he puts a tiny bit of salad on his plate too. But it doesn't bother me as such one way or the other, that is it doesnt feel like a block at all, because the most important thing is that he is my friend.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2012 07:13AM by chat.

rab,

I get what you are saying, but also know from my own periods of feeling this way that it may be a case of asking too much of one's social circle/society. Most of the people I know are SADers, or at least omnivores, and new people I meet are bound to be also. Does this mean I must retreat further and further into an internal monastery or keep, eliminating contact with others? No. My diet, even if it is a lifestyle rather than merely a food regimen, doesn't define me in my totality, and I oughtn't to allow it to become a divisive factor in my life. I dunno, maybe I'm just good at compartmentalizing . . .

I'm sorry that you are down about this; I hope you find a solution.

I have commented basically on this topic before.
Never in my life has my raw diet ever caused any issues with friends,family,or society.
I go to my girlfriends mothers house for supper every Monday nite.And they are chowing down on pork chops,while I chow down on my salad.
Again,this causes no issues whatsoever.

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2012 01:39PM by eaglefly.

I thik this has more to do with your sensitivy than with your friends. Once the point of reference is change, people see different. So, I would try to think in a way that you love everybody even if they look mean. This is easier to say than do, but it is doable. Once you are Ok with everybody you'll feel even better.

I've always been a little different. If it's not how I dress then it's how I wear my hair. If it's not about how I eat then it's about what I believe in. Even my hobbies set me a part in a way.

Even though I'm so different from my neighbors and even my friends, I never felt like I was an outsider to society. I'm still a part of it. Everyone thinks of society as being everyone following a certain set of rules as to how to act and how to dress and what to do and how to eat. Really all it comes down to is that society has multiple types of people and we're just one of many. We're a part of society, even if most of society doesn't agree with the choices we've made.

My friends are all omnivores except for one friend I have that's vegetarian. I'm the only one who is raw. They accept my choice to eat this way just as I accept their choice not to. Would I rather my friends and family follow my lead as far as diet goes? Oh yeah! But as I said, we're all different. We all have our own path. And without all these differences then our world would be totally boring.

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

*hugs and blessings*
Jayelle

Well, obviously this needs a little explanation. I'll try, but I am not sure if I will be able to do it.

When you eat healhy (high percentage of raw food) you are making a statement. Your body and your mind change. You can live in denial, but actually you have stated that you do not accept the current social and political atmosphere. Like it or not, you actually voted against multi-trillion food industry. You are essentially different.

When I talk to my SAD friends I have no problems whatsoever. We communicate fine, thank God. But, my interests and my life in general are 'on the other side' and a natural urge to understand and be understood cannot be answered when in SAD company (not completely, anyway). There is always an option to look for like minded persons but that narrows the list of 'friends' to a relatively small list.

I am not complaining nor asking for help. This is a pure analysis.

Now, you can stay the same after the change of diet, watch the same shows, vote for the same party and go to the same games. Possible. But it does not make much sense in my book.
I expect that most 'raw people' have been slightly 'different' even before they became 'raw'. Becoming 'raw' is only a continuation of the internal process and SOME OF US MAY DENY it, but it is a fact.

SAD food is an addiction, and so is a lot of our behaviour. You may want to change the food but keep the behaviour, your choice, but the law of harmony dictates that the body and the mind will try to get rid of mental garbage just like it god rid of toxic food.

Now, it is not always easy to identify mental toxins. You can pick quite a few in one day and nurture them through continuation of your addiction based behaviour.

I can go on and on and blah, blah...this is a very complex topic, I have only scratched the surface.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2012 11:09PM by rab.

Chat
I think you are right on for some things. I often felt like I had a special elevated state above everyone else when trying raw. Maybe thats what other people were feeling when I would hear critical things from friends. They said that it made them feel 'weird'.

Rab,
Yes, I think your right. Being raw in a way suggests that other people must change. In my attempts to go raw, I found that it continually questions everything that most people take as 'fact'. It seriously challenges their sense of reality. It draws attention to just how short modern life has become on its ability to produce and maintain health and happiness.

It does in a way place one outside of that is 'normal' and usual. One thinks differently, and it can physically and emotionally seperate one from other people. Kind of like smoking. I tried to be social with a group of smokers, and found that I just could not do it! I felt the burning in my lungs and just had to abruptly excuse myself. On some level it was kind of rude, but I am comfortable with that for now, as I felt like I couldn't breathe.

What I find upsetting is the sense that everyone has to be 'the same'. And if one is different in someway people start asking questions or making judgements. It seems totally unnecessary to me. They don't have the right to do that. The question part is ok maybe if its sincere and they objectively want to know something, but judgements nots not right. I used to do that with my partner, because sometimes that Implied that I had to change. He has some dietary restriction he always observes, and its not out of judgement, its simply he cant digest them without a lot of trouble. I sometimes share stuff, and I don't like the taste, so I naturally have judgements about that. But I really should just decline and not say anything. And people should be able to do that.

What really gets me is, when people say stuff because they believe its unhealthy. They believe that we actually need to have cooked foods. There are some medical theories in the world that also say that. That has been a side track for me, but really is there any evidence that one needs cooked food?

Mislu, the period of farming and cooked food has been too short and humans have always eaten some amount of raw food that kept them alive and healthy.

There has never been a human who lived whole life eating processed food ONLY. I don't think so. It is impossible to live like that for longer than a year or two. Processed food kills. If someone has other information, it would be interesting to share.

Rab,
I am not doubting the information about processed food at all. My partners family seems to eat a lot of it, and well, they aren't too healthy. They don't live exclusively on it, but there are days where I think my mil eats only processed and cooked. Maybe those are the days she is particularly difficult to get a long with.

Unprocessed, but cooked food might be better than processed and cooked. What I was referring to is traditional chinese medicine, and indian medicine shys away from raw foods, especially not an all raw diet. I still don't understand that.

But cooking is just soo common. Doesn't make it right, but its perceived by many as being a natural thing for humans to do, simply because its been done for generations. Some are closed to the idea, simply because there have been so many other 'diets' advanced for various reasons. Or simply people just don't want to change, not seeing any need.

I suspect that someone living on processed food only probably had a very short miserable life. It seems common enough sense for most people not to try something like that, especially not on purpose. But to elminate it completely to some seems like a fanatical idea. For whatever reason my mother in law has a problem with me avoiding processed food like the plague. It makes me feel sick.

Mislu, I have had that problem in my family and I understand you. I have no advice, everybody has to come up with their own solutions. I know that it is hard enough to fight my own demons of the past...

I noticed one thing - some of the SAD people would sometimes say/do everything EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what a raw person would. It is as if they are indoctrinated very deeply and there is very little tollerance there. Often they have no visible benefit from such behaviour.

The indoctrination is deep and sometimes scary.

I see raw people as fragile plants, they need good soil to grow, and good vibes too.

Rab,
Interesting, how and why do any of your SAD people know anything about raw, without being raw themselves? Something about that seems really odd.

Some peoples idea of eating healthy strikes me as odd. Probably stuff you already know and understand. I heard something recently that made me feel hopeful. Health is what you body gravitates toward! its its natural desire. We just have to not do all the things to prevent that from happening. But for whatever reason that seems to take more effort. But this person said that it actually takes less effort, its just that people have habits that get in the way, and make it difficult to see that.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not complaining nor asking for help. This is
> a pure analysis.


I'm glad you said this as this is exactly how i understood your OP, but then I was beginning to feel guilty reading super compassionate replies of others against my cold-blooded analysis lol


Still, I feel the big deal here is only "big" to a point. By choosing raw diet we become essentially different - sure, but we become essentially different by choosing anything else as well. And we make choices every single day, some of them small and some of them big, but every single one of those choices makes us different from somebody else who chooses otherwise. That is why, as people, we are different. Perhaps choosing raw diet and life style is a big choice rather than small, but that's pretty much all there is to it.

And the point is, we should be striving to live in the society despite the fact that we, as people, are different. It is precisely because this aim makes sense to us, that those sad eaters who think that everybody should be sad appear strange to us. Because they fail to understand that everybody is different, and this is a norm.


And this is why, IMO, we should avoid the below attitude:


rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see raw people as fragile plants, they need good
> soil to grow, and good vibes too.


Because there is nothing special about raw people, because they are people just like everybody else.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 12:46PM by chat.

"Because there is nothing special about raw people, because they are people just like everybody else."
- I don't agree.

Mislu, SAD people have a defense mechanism, just like raw people. There is also a whole system of values, where rituals around food are essential part of the culture. By changing or removing these rituals a whole way of life is destroyed. Of course they would defend it to the bitter end. So, raw food appears to be a major threat and that is why it causes a severe reaction. This reaction is also cultivated through the propaganda material carefuly planted into media programs. Vegetarians are tollerated but never really accepted into the mass media as equal. How many roles has Brad Pitt played where he was a vegetarian? Vegan?

If we just listen to our bodies, all the answers are there. But, we are taught that human science is above the raw nature, we are trained to listen to human authorities, doctors, scientists. And those are all corrupted, unfortunatelly. In the long run, nature will prevail. But, I am looking into my microcosmos and how a poor me can survive the challenges.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Because there is nothing special about raw
> people, because they are people just like
> everybody else."
> - I don't agree.

Yep, and that's precisely why "no matter how hard you try to understand and be understood by your SAD friends, it will never really work." IMO of course

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

I don't agree simply because it is much easier to swim down the stream, with millions of others, than to stop, use your own body as a guide and try to live by higher standards. To me, everyone who TRIES to resist the control is special.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 02:01PM by rab.

But the point is that no one, to the extent that she is a PERSON, swims down the stream with millions of others. By making choices, whether large or small, we take our lives under our own control. And to that extent all of us are the same, and that is why there is nothing special about raw people.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

By making choices we often accept the control of others, unfortunatelly.

So what, it is still a choice of that person, and to that extent qua choice it is no different from you choosing a raw diet. In order to understand each other, as people capable of making different choices, and in order to be able to live with each other as a consequence, we need to appreciate that at this fundamental level we are the same, and no one is special.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 03:11PM by chat.

rab wrote,

<<<I don't agree simply because it is much easier to swim down the stream, with millions of others, than to stop, use your own body as a guide and try to live by higher standards. To me, everyone who TRIES to resist the control is special.>>>

I agree, most people just glide with the stream of the crowd and are Group Thinkers and most people who break away from the Herd, like most Raw Foodists, are Individual Thinkers.

Peace and Love..........John

I just look forward to the day that I can eat a bowl of fruit for lunch in public, without someone asking me if"'Thats all your having?!!!" I was asked that today. He wanted to know 'why'. I was fool enough to answer. It was because I bought a lot of fruit! I don't have to answer anything. I will have a repeat tommarrow. I actually felt quite satisfied with the meal. It was also a lot of fruit, melon to be exact. I don't know if I will go back to all raw again, but lunch tommarrow will be for sure.

rab wrote,

<<<No matter how hard you try to understand and be understood by your SAD friends, it will never really work.>>>

Whenever I get overwhelmed by all of the Fools and Naysayers, I like to fall back on the wisdom of someone who had a tremendous amount of experience in this area - Herbert Shelton:

"It seldom happens that the reformer reaps the benefits of the reform he introduces. Men are slow to understand and still slower to act. But this does not deter the man or woman who possess a genuine love of his fellowman and whose desire for the betterment of the race is no mere sentimental pseudo-religiosity. Rather he bravely faces the disappointments he is sure to experience and with courage and determination advances the cause, which, as he sees it, stands for the liberation and enlightenment of his fellows." -Herbert Shelton

“The revolutionist must pay a price, often a big one, for the privilege, the greatest of all privileges, of awakening his fellowmen to a realization of their errors, and educating them to an awareness of a better and nobler life than that which they have formerly known. Men who cast aside the conventional prejudices of their age and country, and who dare to proclaim and live up to the truths which they perceive, seldom receive the esteem and respect they deserve. If they are sincere and courageous, they care naught for the personal discomfort which the announcement of their message brings upon them, but carve out a way for themselves.” -Herbert Shelton

"Few readers perhaps fully understand the difficulties that attend the effort to introduce new, radical and revolutionary principles to the world. It is not easy for men to discard ingrained errors and life-long prepossessions, nor to comprehend truths which conflict with the accumulated prejudices of three thousand years. Very few individuals, once professionally educated, can ever be wholly divested of the theories of their schools. If the principles of the Hygienic School are true, they overthrow all the teachings and destroy all of the practices of the medical schools and render useless all of their great libraries of accumulated lore. More than this, their general acceptance will destroy a number of great commercial enterprises that are among the most profitable enterprises of the present era." -Herbert Shelton, "The Science and Fine Art of Natural Hygiene" pp. 17-18

"'Correction is always distasteful to the truant child,' said Trall. 'Consequences are never to be desired, although always inevitable, when we have been the subjects of misdeeds.' It is the ungrateful task of Hygienists to point out to men and women what are their misdeeds." -Herbert Shelton, “Fasting For Renewal Of Life”, pp. 306-307

"A knowledge of habits and their influences is of far more value than any amount of knowledge of physics, chemistry, pharmacology and materia medica. ...What this country needs is a great teacher, one who, with the eyes of a superior being, can see the roots of our troubles, the causes of man's perennial lassitude, constant seeking after stimulants, the causes of his deterioration, weakness, decrepitude, impotence and suffering; one who posses a deep knowledge of the secrets of nature, who knows the almost magic virtues of fresh fruits, uncooked vegetables and nuts, and who can stir our people as no man ever stirred them before. ...Our people must be made drunk with enthusiasm and wild with eagerness for a new life based on a new and superior nutrition. The man who can stir this nation to its roots and bring it back to a pristine state of health and perfection will be greater than he who builds an army, greater than a scientist or inventor who devotes his talents and energies to perfecting some new engine of destruction and will deserve to rank among the world's greatest men." -Herbert Shelton

Peace and Love..........John

>I just look forward to the day that I can eat a bowl of fruit for lunch in public, without someone asking me if"'Thats all your having?!!!"


i'm not posting this from a position of superiority, but experience and error...

your desire above is absolutely hopeless.
it will never happen.


people will keep coming at you until you can find your own peace by answering the simple questions and not presuming critical intent. people are just afraid they're doing it wrong or wanting to feed their insatiable ego by knowing better than you. only when you embrace the questions can you be free. their freedom is up to them.

is that all you're having?
yes

why?
it tastes good

where do you get your protein?
i don't know, but i'm not wasting away, so i must be getting enough.

do you want to try some?

fresh, simple and effective--nice!

Fresh,
I actually got my wish! I had lunch again with the same person and someone else. Food was simply not a lunch time topic. So, it was quite simple.

you should have asked them where they get their calcium.... ;-)

UUUUAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Chat, I love your philosophy and outlook on life.

I was listening to an Eckhart Tolle CD last night and he was discussing how the ego needs to be different in order to feel its strength. So opposing someone else is the result. It made me think of people in my own life who fit that bill, but then I thought about ME How do I strengthen my sense of self (small 's') by being opinionated and judgmental?

One thing he mentioned was how in religion they focus on how their way is the right way and others are in error, rather than accepting different paths as legitimate. It's as if a religion were to do so, it would have no reason to even exist because it does not stand out from the pack!

I haven't been much of a social butterfly for several years now because I feel very much in need of avoiding others' influence. I do believe very strongly that you must choose your companions well because they cannot help but impact you in some way. I also think many people find it difficult to enjoy solitude and will choose inferior company rather than being by themselves. I think that is unfortunate because if you have to constantly explain yourself to certain people in your life, they are not beneficial to you. I remember reading something in this vein and it resonated. If you are always on the defense, feel misunderstood, not appreciated right this minute for who you are, it's toxic. You are better off alone until you can attract appropriate and constructive relationships.

Some "health nuts" are jerks, quite frankly, who are puffed-up by their lifestyles and give the rest of us a bad name. You don't have to lecture to people--they will be curious if they see you eating well and will seek you out. They will be more responsive to humility than bombast. Just my dos centavos



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 09:22PM by banana who.

Bannana who,
Sometimes the health nuts are very interesting. Sometimes its doesn't seem entirely correct, but maybe they have a few things right. When I got a free blood pressure check I met an elderly woman who seems to take a lot of supplements, and herbs. Very well versed in nutrition, at least from a largely conventional point of view.

I don't know many 90 year olds that shovel their own driveway. She used a chair and a child sized beach shovel. I thought that was so cool. It took her a few days to do it that snowstorm that winter, but she didn't want anyone to do it. She says it keeps her young, and gives her something to do.