Given the popularity of this type of eating, we naturally see the spectrum of raw food "gurus" or "celebs" (in quotes because this is still probably a very small little niche in the grander scheme of things). I have seen either three types: very thin, anoxeric-looking (or at least looking very wan and feeble), those who are slender but very healthy looking, and those who are a bit "thick" to the point where you wonder if they're cheating! (And I don't really wonder about it because I assume that they wouldn't go to the trouble of making videos, talking about it and then eating whatever...but who knows though, right?)

I feel that those on the raw path should present a healthy image. While obesity is obviously not in line with that goal, neither is being gaunt (IMO). What say you?

Edit: My examples of raw fooders who look perfect (IMO, anyway) are Natasha St. Michael (even though she's altered her diet, she looked the same at 100% raw), Megan Elizabeth, and Angela Stokes-M.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 05:59PM by banana who.

I wanted to add that the first two seem to really do a lot of working out, which probably accounts for their toned physique. I think that when you look your best you have a bit of meat on your bones!

[s1.hubimg.com]

(I looked for a full-body pic of Natasha and cannot locate one--weird)

Another point I wanted to make is that I deliberately did not want to call out specific people whose appearance I don't feel looks healthy. It's just a general impression left when someone identifies as raw vegan and they just don't look vital. And by the way, this can occur with any diet. I realize that and am not slamming raw foodism in the least. The examples I gave are people who manage to look healthy while representing raw foodism, ya dig?

I live in a huge raw food comunity and none of us look even the slightest bit emaciated. The deer, moose, birds, rabbits, bears, turkeys, squirels, and I are all thriving.

I think its possible to be fat on a raw vegan diet, just difficult. But i suppose if someone eats nuts all day long or other fatty foods, lots of sugar etc, or generally tons of food, and don't move much then why not!

The question would it be healthy though. From what i've been reading so far it seems being thin, even being very thin is the healthiest way, providing of course that the person is getting all necessary nutrients with her diet.

But personally i would hate to look very thin, and if I end up living a few years shorter life - bring it on, at least i'll be good looking

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Chat, I agreee with you. I have never been one of those types who thought "you can never be too thin" (the too rich part is another question). I am not even debating the health aspect of it but I have heard there are sites for anorexics and they post pics of skeletal people and admire them. So people with body distortion or fat phobia will actually find those types attractive.

As for the raw fooders who are bit on the chunky side, I am not entirely sure what's going on. Even if a person consumed large amounts of raw fats: nuts and avocados, for example, I don't think it's a given that they would either maintain their former weight or gain weight. I think that is most likely with SAD eaters eating crappy fat. Also, they probably had large frames to begin with.

I will step up to the plate and admit although I strive to be a raw fooder,I am not,and carry extra weight.But I do work out so I am going to pretend its all muscle.

I do believe that a raw diet will lead to a generally thin look,but someone who is skeletal...there is something more going on.IMO

The emaciated look is not just from being overly thin but from losing muscle mass also, alot of this probably comes from the low protein side of many raw diets.

Quite a few long term raw fooders look this way which is why i still don't think an 100% raw diet is healthy long term. Infact i can't think of many if any 100% long term raw fooders who do look good ?.

Most of these raw guru's also regularly cheat from what ive heard from friends.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2012 10:47AM by powerlifer.

It's interesting about the protein. When I said it is difficult to get fat on a raw diet, I was thinking about carbs, mainly starch. Since starch is covered by protective cellulose it is difficult for our body to digest it, unless the veg is cooked as a result of which cellulose becomes broken. Which means that on a raw veggie diet less carbs are absorbed by the body as energy - some will get absorbed, but most will simply pass trough the stomach into the colon and out. Hence why it is more difficult to be overweight on a raw veggie diet...

Does a similar point apply to protein, is it also more "absorbable" in a cooked state? According to cronometer I can get all essential amino acids to 100% without problem at all (and that's even though my diet is a low calorie one). Or is getting essential amino acids not enough to maintain normal muscle appearance? (normal as in average)

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2012 11:58AM by chat.

everything is transient and going in one direction with a certain diet must eventually end, because everything ends. A raw food diet may be the best but not forever. But this could be said of any diet. No diet guarantees life forever. We are so used to think in terms of fixed ideas that we protect them to make us feel secure.

That's a bit random Panchito, isn't this thread about emaciated looks?? "everything is transient" lol yeah, very deep thought there, just doesn't mean it is unreasonable to want something while going through the transition state

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

On paper you can get easily however many grams of protein raw but i doubt many have the stomach to eat as much as they need too when it comes to a raw diet. So this could be why long term they have low levels of muscle mass and an emaciated look.

I mean to follow the RDA i would need about 80g of protein being that i weigh around 80kg and this isn't taking into account any increased activity with exercise and weight lifting, so id need to consume a heck of alot of volume of raw food to be able to get this 80g of protein.

Protein must play a role because it is the standard skinny fat look, low levels of muscle mass, high bodyfat percentage but still thin framed. Woman seem to fair better on a raw diet especially in the short term, i sometimes ponder if this is due to the large intake of phyto-estrogens from plant foods, which balance hormone levels amongst other benefits.

Insulin resistance also plays a role in the emaciated and skinny fat look.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2012 12:55PM by powerlifer.

We only see what we want to see. As I remember in the book called "Raw Food Controversies" people that started this diet were eating lots of avocados and nuts and they were gaining weight and fat. Once they started eating less fat, they became thinner. I think that if people look thin it is because they want to look like that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2012 01:19PM by Panchito.

Panchito, I agree with you. I think there is definitely a connection to anorexia in some of these types. There is someone I am thinking of who is a gorgeous raw fooder BUT she could use at least ten pounds on her, if not more. She would be so much better-looking, IMO. But she has quite a following and I suspect young women think she's the ideal. She is way too thin, from what I can see. But I wouldn't tell her that.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On paper you can get easily however many grams of
> protein raw but i doubt many have the stomach to
> eat as much as they need too when it comes to a
> raw diet.


Do you mean that in real life the protein from raw sources is not being "absorbed" to the extent that it shows on paper?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

chat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On paper you can get easily however many grams
> of
> > protein raw but i doubt many have the stomach
> to
> > eat as much as they need too when it comes to a
> > raw diet.
>
>
> Do you mean that in real life the protein from raw
> sources is not being "absorbed" to the extent that
> it shows on paper?

Nah chat, what i meant was that most don't eat anywhere near enough food consistently to acheive the RDA of protein in my opinion. This is because with raw fruits and vegetables, it takes a large volume of food. People often succumb into the belief that because they eat raw they don't need as much of a certain nutrient, but i dont agree with that either, especially when it comes to protein and nutrients like zinc which are often hard to get the RDA of on a raw diet. For me like i say id need at the minimum 80g of protein and that is alot of food from just raw fruits and greens like many raw fooders do. Add in increased activity like most raw fooders do with exercise then your nutrient and caloric needs increase, and again you need more volume which many struggle to consume even for maintanence calories.

These kind of issues catch up long term i.e not getting enough protein daily and it shows too or these individuals wouldn't be emaciated. I do wonder if the large amounts of fiber cause problems with nutrient absorbtion to some degree because some can't gain weight no matter how hard they try on a raw diet.

Low levels of zinc could also be an issue and people can speak about phytic acid in grains as justification of consistently not acheiving the RDA for zinc on a raw diet but the truth is that phytic acid actually has a much higher affinity for heavy metals and free iron than it does beneficial nutrients.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 12:28PM by powerlifer.

This is a good example of what i have in mind by being good looking. Such a cute sexy little man on the left and on the right, some two years later - the only thought that comes to my head is a desire to check his pulse rate




Absolutely hats off to the guy for being transparent and honest and putting the pictures of himself for everyone to see, the rest of them are here: [deanpomerleau.tripod.com] He states clearly that he is following the diet to maximize health and longevity, and I tend to believe that this is the right way and that he will probably achieve his goal. Its just that i know i'm vain and would not be able to allow myself to turn into a golum, even on the pain of becoming less healthy..

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 12:37PM by chat.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nah chat, what i meant was that most don't eat
> anywhere near enough food consistently to acheive
> the RDA of protein in my opinion. This is because
> with raw fruits and vegetables, it takes a large
> volume of food. People often succumb into the
> belief that because they eat raw they don't need
> as much of a certain nutrient, but i dont agree
> with that either, especially when it comes to
> protein and nutrients like zinc which are often
> hard to get the RDA of on a raw diet.

I see, cheers powerlifer for heads up - i need to read up on protein a bit more. Shame there is no easy answer to an ideal diet so far, many things are pretty complicated and take time to understand and make sense of, especially not in isolation but in combination of other issues important to health! Maybe some day there will be an easy answer, but until then we just have to do our best..

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

What is "CR"?

I also have a big problem with how skinny many raw foodists are. I had looked up some photos for another thread where we were discussing this subject and was going to post their photos, but they are well-known and I didn't want to stigmatize them. One of them posts on here.

Of course, we're only talking about 100% raw foodists, because otherwise it's not valid.

I think those who start out as overweight on SAD are perfect to convert to raw and end up looking great on the raw food diet. But those who are regular weight or on the thin side end up looking emaciated on the 100% raw food diet. They're skin and bones, no muscle or fat. And I don't think a person should have to lift weight and work out so as not to look skinny, because then they usually still look too skinny, but have big muscles, still no fat under their skin.

I'm not sure if it's the actual RFD, or if it's the specific RFD of the individual or --

I wonder what came first, the chicken or the egg. Are they too skinny on the raw food diet because of the condition their health/body is in from all those years since they were born (and even from generations of their ancestors) eating cooked food.

I myself was screwed up from birth because my mother gave me cow's milk when I was born and I was allergic to it and kept throwing it up and so they gave me some pills and finally I was able to keep it down and so she keep bottle feeding me. Thanks, Mom! Also, didn't discover I was gluten-intolerant until I was 35, so have always been skinny. But if I had been breastfed and eaten a 100% raw food diet from birth, would I be perfect weight now.

I guess we'll know the answer when Storm and Jinjee's children grow up after being 100% raw since birth, and we see by their photos if they look regular weight or too skinny.

CR is calorie restriction

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Hello Everyone,

I find this an interesting discussion. I certainly have seen all of the examples you cited and I once went to a lecture by someone who writes raw food books and I was a bit surprised at how corpulent they were, not that they were fat but certainly heftier than anyone I had ever met who was 100% raw. It made me wonder.

Kudos to Dean Pomerleau for putting his pics out there and for giving it to us straight up. Afterall, we all benefit most with the truth. His pics remind me a bit of the first time I went raw. I went from 172 lbs. to 143 lbs. and I remember saying to a friend that I didn't know if I liked this anymore as I pointed out that I was beginning to look emaciated. Though he wasn't raw, he was very supportive and suggested there was no problem, I only needed to start working out with weights and since he wanted to get back into weightlifting, we got together at his place three times a week. In about four months, I had bulked up to 151 lbs. and was quite defined. I should say though that after each workout, I ate one container of soft tofu to ensure that I had some protein to build muscle.

I have a friend I haven't seen for many years. We found each other on the internet. He told me he cycles 100 mmiles a day. I asked him how much he weighs...133 lbs. I asked if people tell him he looks too thin and he said, "all the time and I tell them, you're accustomed to looking at fat people!"

peoples' appearance sure do have a triggering effect , don't they?

it is all very fascinating and interesting

all reactions are an arrow pointing ever spiraling inward

each reaction reveals the great mystery that is locked within

all reactions are a mirror to our greatest desires and fears

welcome to the hall of mirrors

enjoy the ride

I know people that are not vegans and look emaciated. They eat less than a bird. Calorie restriction diet will attract people that want the concentration camp look.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Calorie restriction diet will attract people that want the
> concentration camp look.


The stupidest thing I've read since morning! Thanks for the laugh

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 06:21PM by chat.

Chat, read about anorexia and food restriction.

Wish I could say what you said makes me happy. But I wish you the best and hope one day you improve your relation to other people to the better.

Well said Panchito. Please don't take what “Psycho-chat” says seriously. It's obvious she doesn't know how to act and I too hope she learns how to "improve her relations with other people" but Psychopaths do NOT have any Good in them.

Here is a small snippet from my file on Psychopaths…

3) What Not To Do

What is vital to understand is that Empathy cannot defeat the Psychopath. You cannot change them. You cannot reform them. You cannot find the Goodness inside of them. You cannot show them the way to God. And you cannot teach them about Love. All of these approaches are doomed to failure since Psychopaths can never understand nor can they care about these concepts. While they may lead you to believe that you are getting through to them, in reality, your Empathy infuriates them and far from admiring your compassion, they despise you even more. One must develop a cold exterior to them and view them from a distance. Do Not Pity them, Feel Sorry for them or sympathize with them.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chat, read about anorexia and food restriction.
>
> Wish I could say what you said makes me happy. But
> I wish you the best and hope one day you improve
> your relation to other people to the better.

Panchito darling, I doubt many people who post on Internet boards do so in order to make you happy or unhappy. There is a difference between food restriction and calorie restriction, the latter term commonly applied to a particular scientific experiment. You did say something stupid whether you meant to or not, what is the point in pretending otherwise and look even more stupid as a result? Food restriction?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 05:02AM by chat.

John, thanks for your words. I believe that people minds grow by looking for balance and equilibrium, like hardening some parts of the body to compensate for weaker parts.

peace

I hope I won't get emasciated. I feel like I am turning into a rather reclucant raw fooder. At first i thought it was just an ideal, but I am finding that everything that is animal or cooked is making me feel sick. I am finding it annoying because my partner likes to go to resturants A LOT, but fruit is hardly ever on the menu, and salads are often so limited in imagination, and have a lot of stuff on them I don't want. I just want simple, and nobody else seems to want it.