I can't be certain which topics to NOT click on. For example, political comments are off-limits on this site, but they often appear anyway on topics entirely unrelated, so the suggestion not to click on topics is not reliable advice.

I have been here for quite a while now, but also don't like the recent trend of political comments, negativity and fear-mongering. Yes, Tamukha, I agree with you.

I appreciate Vinny's desire for positive comments, hopefulness, feelings of peace, a welcoming attitude, discussion without arguing, etc. I hope we can swing the pendulum back in that direction so Vinny would have a safe place to return and I will feel comfortable to stay as well.


My favorite raw vegan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 02:15AM by Trive.

Tamukha
Can you explain in good detail your definitions of fear mungering and being negative?

I posted this before to eagle that fear is a purely and always a choice. No one can make another person afraid and I myself have no fears.

I asked eagle this and he refused to answer, If your house was on fire and I told you so would you call it creating fear or being negative? Would you put the fire out by not thinking about it? Now Tamukha I ask you that?

And now remember my water pouring experiment. If nobody could stop the water from being poured by not thinking about it, then how do they think they can stop things in progress in the world by not thinking about them? Nothing is ever fixed by sticking your head in the sand.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! The vortex of negativity is sucking me in. I want to respond but that would only fuel the fire of negativity. Should not comment further. Must resist... Kryptonite. Noooooooooooo..................


My favorite raw vegan

Is there a link to a song that explains all this?

Hey B2E - some people just don't get it so they Run to Denial by Shutting Down their Frontal Lobe. […see Raw Food & Unrealistic Optimism... [www.rawfoodsupport.com] ...]

Yesterday, Alex Jones said,

"I mean that ought to Scare the Day Lights out of everybody. And by Scare you I mean Not Scare you into hiding in your house - call it Scare you into Action. People say, man, you Scare people - you’re trying to Scare them. I think people that think that I’m trying to Scare them don’t get it. This is happening - I’m here telling you it’s happening because I believe that when you understand that your children are being targeted with Radiological, Chemical and Biological and Genetically Engineered Garbage to Hurt them, you’re going to get Angry and start doing something about it. And that’s what I’ve been doing for 17 years."

back2eden,

Your water experiment was interesting, but I can see how someone might have thought it, well, defeatist and dejecting. People don't necessarily conflate bad news with news one needs to know, and if that is how the majority of posters on Other Topics define it, okey dokey, I, and people like me, won't go there. But it isn't your job or anyone else's to forcibly pull anyone's head out of what you term "sand," you know. That's not why most of us are here; I know I'm not.

That said, I want people who signed up here and promised to abide by the mods' rules to please stop dragging fearprop onto the main forum in the guise of wishing to inform. A good example of this is what John Rose posts, above, which uses the language of fear rather than hope--that is inarguable--and is accompanied by a scolding that those of us that do not respond favorably to such language are somehow deficient in awareness. I would find that implication insulting, if I cared about it. But I am not as sensitive to energies as others are, and the sensitivity of such people should be respected, which is why I don't take this post of Vinny's personally, except that I will miss his presence here. He was a positive person.

It used to be that someone with a problem would come on here and would meet with expressions of sympathy and useful, disinterested advice. Increasingly, we get blame-the-poster and my-way-reflects-Objective-Truth responses which are not helpful or kind.

I do hope that this is a temporary trend and does not become the general tone of people's responses at this forum. There are plenty of other sites for that kind of "communication," and this isn't one of them.

Tam,

If T. C. Fry and Herbert Shelton were alive, they would probably tell you to go to a hike. People like myself and T. C. Fry and Herbert Shelton know that with Knowledge comes the Problems of Knowledge and you cannot separate the two.

“Our task is a difficult one: we must not only persuade our clients to resort to measures that are unpopular and, sometimes, unpleasant, but we must also try to de-indoctrinate them. Detoxification must be accompanied with de-indoctrination.” -Herbert Shelton, “Fasting For Renewal Of Life” pp. 167-168

Trive, I have to disagree with you. First of all, most of the threads have descriptive titles: "Ron Paul harrassed at airport," etc. As for the dreaded "political" threads that sucked you in unawares...I would have to see evidence of that. Perhaps once or twice or the conversation turned political at some point.

Frankly, what is the big DEAL about politics?! It's just another issue! And see how when we ban that issue (along with economics) it is inevitable that someone comes along and tries to ban yet more and more subjects (or worse yet, the emotions allowed to be expressed).

The truth is that these are just OPINIONS. Why would opinions upset you so much unless you have major control issues and/or are very insecure about your beliefs? I think that politics and economics should have never been banned in the first place. That set in motion a slippery slope.

If you are living in fear of clicking on misleading threads in the ETC. forum, DON'T GO TO THE ETC. FORUM!!!!

For those who don't know which way to lean on this subject...

"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Henry David Thoreau

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” -Abraham Lincoln

“Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good.” -Mahatma Gandhi

“You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.” -Mahatma Ghandi

“These good people are a curse to India - the curse of timid decency - and are a part of the tragedy of our times." -Mahatma Gandhi

Over the years, I've had the pleasure of woking with engineers, physicists, medical doctors, and researchers with multiple PHDs in multiple disiplines. They are all very smart people, and all boast of their inteligence. I think that's a good healthy thing.

They all also knew that along with advanced intelligence, comes advanced resposiblility to use it in a matter that will build socciety up and benefit others.

However I also noticed that a few found a need to build themselves up by insulting the intelligence of those who did not agree them.

Hold yourself to a higher standard.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 07:49PM by swimmer.

Hypocrisy again.

Why do some of the very people who don't want negative posts allowed on this board talking about GMOs and Monsanto and the FDA, etc. Aren't we being negative and fear based and aren't they CT's? Or because we believe it, it's not a CT. But if we didn't believe in it, like some on here don't believe in chemtrails, then it would be considered a CT, like some on here think chemtrails are a CT.

So it sounds like there are those who would censor all posts unless they are positive and uplifting? And that to me sounds like it is based on a belief system, a spiritual belief, (The New Age Belief that one should only entertain the positive.) or a religion if you will. So it seems like there are those who are trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else by trying to keep us from posting anything 'negative'.

Number two, many Health Seekers, Alternative Health Advocates, and even - Heaven Forbid - Raw Food Guru's, talk about Current Events, Society and Culture, and have blogs and write articles and discuss such subjects, including Mike Adams from Natural News, Mercola, Gabriel Cousens, John Rose, Living Tree Community (I get Gabriel Cousens and Living Tree Community's newsletter in my email and they send out articles on those subjects, even political and economics and what some on here consider CT's - chemtrails.)

For example, the latest newsletter --

[livingtreecommunity.com]

(Editorial: Surely You Are Jesting, Mr. Bernanke)

[livingtreecommunity.com]

(Scroll down)

***********
Here's Gabriel Cousens talking about Current Events, Society and Culture -

[www.treeoflife.nu]

[www.treeoflife.nu]

[www.treeoflife.nu]

Is the fact that we're differing in opinion on this subject negative and so we're not allowed to differ in opinion on the board. We must all agree and all be positive and all of a like mind? Are we clones or individuals? All raw foodists are not the same.

Is the problem that dissension is not allowed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 09:42PM by KidRaw.

To John Rose
John, This is how see it now.

B2E to "typical New Ager": Hey "typical New Ager" your house is on fire.
"Typical New Ager": You are just creating fear, being negative, insulting, and forcing me to take my head out of the sand. By talking about fire you are giving energy to it. You should just be comforting me instead!

John Rose, It is so perfectly embararsing to be living in a country full of this type. Can we create a denial free zone? I realy liked your last 5 quotes.

Tamukha..you are on fire! I mean that is a good way, not trying to put fear in you, you don't have to put anything out...I couldn't have said what you said any better than how you said it

Swimmer..so right!

Love,
Prism

Trive...you gave me a giggle with your post..hahahahaha!

Love,
Prism

Kid, ding, ding, ding! It's okay to talk about scary stuff as long as it's something YOU agree with! If it's not, it's sheer fear-mongering (as I pointed out occurs with regularity on the health forum).

Elvis has left the building!

"Thankuverymuch..."

I just came across the post most likely the topic of this thread. For you Jalan.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Love,
Prism

John,

Quote

If T. C. Fry and Herbert Shelton were alive, they would probably tell you to go to a hike.

Actually, these men, from what I know, were civil gentlemen and probably wouldn't.

KidRaw,

There is a salient difference between posting fact-based, verifiable information about GMOs, which directly affects our lifestyle and is not inherently "terrifying," and posting fearprop designed to alarm.

I recently posted a thread about the latest legislation on GMOs. It was from a watchdog group and offered specific valid information and plausible suggestions for solutions. This is where fearprop differs--it agitates without offering hope or help.

I do not understand why it is so hard to discern the difference.


P.S. Thanks, Prism; right back at ya



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2012 03:42PM by Tamukha.

Tam,

Shelton and Fry were, unlike you, very much aware of what needs to be discussed and in order to to achieve the Civility that’s oh so lacking on this planet, these gentlemen would not allow someone like you to tell us we must NOT discuss the Obstacles that we face for those of us who try to get this message out. Perhaps if you worked as hard as me or Fry or Shelton, then you would understand why these are important issues.

Once again, with Knowledge comes the Problems of Knowledge and we cannot separate the two. Shelton and Fry knew we had to discuss the Obstacles and would have been extremely hostile to anyone and anything that got in their way. I’ve read everything these men wrote and I know where they stood on this issue.

So yes, Shelton and Fry would probably have told you to go take a hike for your insisting that we don’t discuss the Problems of Knowledge. The Key here is YOUR INSISTING THAT CERTAIN TOPICS SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED!

No, no, I’m not in Denial.

No, no, Psychopaths don’t Rule the World.

No, no, let’s not think about pulling the reins on those pulling the strings behind the curtain.

Trust me Tam, both of these gentlemen would have been all over you for telling us we must Not discuss the Obstacles that these men fought most of their lives.

PS Here is a little insight into Herbert Shelton…

Dr. Vetrano adds to this portrait in a recent phone call. She describes Dr. Shelton as "humorous, joking, playful, loving, and delightful to be around because of the twinkle in his eye." I was very glad to hear this. But I am still a bit puzzled. For when I read Shelton and listen to him on tape, he sounds so angry so bitter so sarcastic almost all the time. When I questioned Dr. Vetrano about this, she explained that early in Dr. Shelton's lecturing, his wife told him to "Get mad!" She and others convinced him that he would have to show strong emotion to be a good speaker. Thus, Dr. Shelton's adopted and polished his "persona."

<<< It is so perfectly embararsing to be living in a country full of this type. Can we create a denial free zone?>>>

Hey B2E,

Yes, “the curse of timid decency” brings me much sadness and wouldn’t a Denial Free Zone be great!!!

By the way, here’s something I bet most people don’t know…

…Denial Strikes Twice.

Think about that one for awhile.

Hey B2E,

Here’s an interesting article on why people don’t get it…

[www.naturalnews.com]
Health Ranger wonders how people look at the obvious and don't see it - here's the answer
Tuesday, May 08, 2012 by: Mike Bundrant

(NaturalNews) Sitting back listening to a stirring episode of the Health Ranger Report, an interview with author Jim Marrs, I heard Mike Adams wonder aloud how people can look at the obvious and still not see it. I have a clear answer.

...

Gosh, banana who. I didn't expect to be insulted and "shouted at" for expressing and opinion.


My favorite raw vegan

Trive, I wasn't shouting at you! I was trying to emphasize certain words. If there is a way to use bold or italics then I would have. I don't know about it.

I also wasn't talking about YOU when I said YOU. I was referring to the collective YOU who have been very vocal and very aggressive in trying to control what is being expressed. They were probably responsible for the ban on politics and economics and think they can continue to throw their weight around instead of SURRENDERING. If you don't like a thread, don't click on it. If you get surprised too often in the misc. forum, then don't go there.

JR,
I am wondering what the goal is?
what would satisfy you?

It may be that u have sentenced yourself
To perpetual stress or frustration

In pursuit of an unreasonable goal

One may be of better service
As peaceful example
People dont generally wake up while being
Condescendingly lectured

GO,

<<<I am wondering what the goal is?>>>

Long ago Socrates said that the Problem of Knowledge is the Key to all of our problems and ever since I read this over 2 decades ago I’ve been trying to figure out how we can Wake Up from this Nightmare. When I first started working on this List of Problems of Knowledge, I knew that the #1 Problem of Knowledge is Ignorance and that we don’t know because we don’t want to know, e.g. Addictions, Denial, etc. and that there were Greedy Opportunists who also did Not want us to know. What I find interesting today is that most people cannot handle the Truth whether it’s that we shouldn’t Eat Unnatural Food or that Sick, Greedy, Opportunistic Psychopaths Rule the World.

So my Goal is to try to figure out some way to Wake People Up without Shutting Down their Frontal Lobe. Much to my dismay I was quite taken back by the Negative responses I got when I posted the Study that illustrated how people Shut Down their Frontal Lobe [ [www.rawfoodsupport.com] ] from people who have Woken Up to Not Eating Unnatural Food but could not accept just how Sick the Sickest of the Sickest of us have become and what they will do to keep all of us Sick so we can be easily Controlled. As Shelton once said, these people will stoop to anything and stop at nothing.

<<<what would satisfy you?>>>

I won’t rest until we Return this Planet to the Paradise it was meant to be and it’s not that hard to do. All we have to do is reach the Tipping Point and within 1 year we could Eradicate the most Common Disease and the most Dangerous Disease that’s afflicted Mankind ever since the Fall of Mankind.

<<< It may be that u have sentenced yourself To perpetual stress or frustration>>>

Au contraire - I was destined to do this and I could not imagine doing anything else.

<<< In pursuit of an unreasonable goal One may be of better service As peaceful example People dont generally wake up while being Condescendingly lectured>>>

That’s why I’m here bubba - I’m trying to find what works and what doesn’t. That’s why I’ve been studying everyone who thinks that they have an answer to solve any problem. That’s why I study Alex Jones who is obviously missing the most important Piece of the Puzzle, but nonetheless, he is still the #1 in Alternative News and even though I do not like his approach I understand it.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 12:29PM by John Rose.

John,

I appreciate your passion about this subject, but caution that the authoritarian approach--which is clearly your chosen path in this thread--always fails in the end.

That is all.

Tam, thanks for your kind words and for your Feedback.

However, as far as your approach, I’m going to have to agree with Alex Jones and what the top Defense Lawyers and Prosecutors will tell you - when you got the facts, lay them out, be aggressive, be dominate about it!!!

This has to do with what Aristotle referred to in Book III Chapter 7 in his book "Aristotle's Rhetoric" as the appropriate language that “makes people believe in the truth of your story.”

This is also the reason why Shelton’s wife told him to "Get mad!" She and others convinced him that he would have to show strong emotion to be a good speaker and this is the reason why he always sounded angry and bitter and sarcastic.

When it comes right down to it, if you ain’t ANGRY, you are either Ill-Informed or you are in Denial!!!

Anger is a wasted and exhausting emotion though isnt it ?. Being angry puts your body into a sympathetic dominant state which is a key factor in many chronic health problems. People can run on anger and adrenaline for so long but the adrenal glands will burn out eventually.

Until the sympathetic nervous system is balanced, not much healing can be done. Anger and fear are two emotions that can put your body in a sympathetic dominant state, which isn't a good thing in my opinion.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 02:55PM by powerlifer.

Hey gary,

I’m all ears buddy.

How do you Wake Up someone in Denial?

Can it be done?

How do you tell the Heroin Addict that his Life would be better if he could get off the only thing that seems to bring him Pleasure?

The same could be asked to someone who Eats Cooked Food.

How do you convince people that they’re having a Mental Processing Error just so they don’t go crazy?

Should we just be the change we want to see?

Is that going to be good enough so we can reach the Tipping Point?

Obviously not!

So what do we do?

Do you have a solution?

John Rose wrote:

How do you convince people that they’re having a
Mental Processing Error just so they don’t go
crazy?

Should we just be the change we want to see?


John, I like that - Mental Processing Error! MPE.

You ask the $64,000 question though I think the answer is likely found somewhere in your comment of just being the change we want to see.

Some weeks ago, there was a Physician's Assistant who decided that she wanted to eat lunch with me each day. It wasn't long before she took notice of what I was eating. She was quite adamant about her position and told me she could never be a vegetarian let alone a raw foodist and I just smiled on her while saying this is what works for me.

She was at the hospital on an interim and returned to her home. A couple weeks later, she sent me a text asking some questions about raw while adding that she had been exclusively raw for three days. Needless to say, I was HUGELY surprised. A week later, she asked a few more questions.

Last night (about a month later), she texted me saying her phone number had changed. I asked if she was still doing raw. Her comment was "I am and I'm loving it!" She was the last person I would have suspected to give it a go but you never know. Sometimes, I suppose, the more vehement the argument, the greater the curiosity!