So I went without caffeine from Sunday until today. The reason I went back is that I never felt that light feeling after the detox, which has typically lasted a day or two in the past. Granted, it would be fairly intense (meaning that I would have little energy and feel majorly crappy). This time it was less than dramatic. I did feel tired at points during the day but the crappy feeling was a bit more subdued. However, it didn't seem to go away and since it was Day 5 I was a bit impatient and starting to actually crave coffee (the first several days I didn't). I also went without gluten for the most part so I wonder if the detox emcompassed that as well. In the past I would not change my diet and just skip the caffeine.

Any thoughts on how to get a quick, thorough detox without having to fast? I don't like the idea of that and I am not sure I would be successful if I tried it like that. I plan to quit again in the near future but I don't want to go through this in-between crappiness again!

*Just to let you know, I am not planning to visit a doctor and so please only respond if you have any deep detox suggestions or other tips that I can do

Can you possibly just do a 1 day juice feast??

Mindy

mindy66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you possibly just do a 1 day juice feast??


Mindy, that is really a great idea. I actually planned to do that the first day I went off coffee and didn't have enough produce to do it properly. I made a juice yesterday with Swiss chard, celery, apple, carrot, cuke and lemon and it was very nice (although only about 16 oz.). I think that is really the way to go. Thanks.

This is not detox in my opinion, but your body and in particular most likely your adrenal glands trying to re-adjust without having a stimulant to increase cortisol production and to prop them up so to speak.

I don't really agree that coffee is a healthy beverage especially for adrenal exhaustion prone individuals. The antioxidant content of coffee is a potential benefit but the stimulant effect from caffeine more than cancels out that benefit in my opinion for many, especially if abused. I don't know many people who use coffee in moderation, your either a daily drinker or you aren't from what ive observed. If you are metabolically healthy and have good adrenal health then coffee in moderation is likely healthy.

If you are adrenal fatigued and in turn likely to have poor blood sugar regulation, then stimulants such as caffeine will knock you into a cascade of fatigue, hypoglycemia and adrenal exhaustion essentially.

Although the cravings can also be due to the stimulation of dopamine.

I guess im back on the forum lol. Everytime i say im not coming back and then im back. Sigh lol.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 07:55PM by powerlifer.

Powerlifer, thank you for that. I didn't know you were off...I am glad you came back

I thought about adrenal fatiuge--I can't imagine I would not have it due to caffeine and sugar. However, going by the past, I thought that I would bounce back quickly but maybe age has something to do with it? I looked at some of the symptoms and didn't identify with them and my fatigue was not so marked that I was bed-ridden.

Have you ever had the beginning of a cold and you are in this no man's land where you don't feel like yourself but are not sick sick? You almost want to experience the cold because the in-between feeling is just complete BLAH. That's kind of how I felt.

What foods would you recommend to nourish the adrenals? I know there was a thread on here somewhere but the search engine sucks.

Thanks BW. If you exhibit no symptoms of adrenal fatigue then its probably not likely in my opinion.

There are other reasons why many reach for stimulants though, another of these common factors include dopamine depletion. If you notice that your are irritable, depressed etc without stimulants then this may be a possibility.

Personally both of the above factors are why i was so addicted to stimulants. Adaptogenic herbs are good in that, most are non-stimulant, adaptogenic herbs which not only support the HPA-axis and adrenal glands but also tend to produce a mild energy increase, that isn't detrimental in the way CNS stimulants such as caffeine and amphetamines are for example.

Ill say again though there is nothing essential about caffeine as a dietary element, so if it is causing suspected problems and you can go 5 days without, then you can eliminate it fully if it is a problem. I know many people with what i suspect to be caffeine/stimulant induced sub clinical adrenal insufficiency. How many people do you know that can't go to work without a coffee or two to get them going before hand?.

I know of many, its nearly become the mean average individuals routine. Stores like starbucks make a fortune out of these individuals every day.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 08:11PM by powerlifer.

I didn't even read this thread yet, but I just wanted to say -

Powerlifer, I'm glad you're back! I was going to PM you or at least do a thread asking for help with herbal remedies because then you might see it and come back, but now you're here I love all your knowledge and advise about healing.

When you said adaptogens, I thought about ashwanganda and perhaps Siberian ginseng or the American type. That's a good idea. Maybe maca? Never tried it.

Thanks again. I think I should research adrenal fatigue because there has got to be some level of that going on. And also as you say, dopamine depletion. I have always sensed that I have had some sort of serotonin issues or the like, because I always went for sugar. And I can see how I differed from other people, especially while young. Now it's so commonplace as you point out, with the Starbucks.

So shall I take it that you do not consume caffeine in any form (including tea and cacao), PL? Do you have any specific replacements for these stimulants?

I would say if you go without coffee and gluten and do juicing, you'll feel like a million dollars

Going gluten-free was the best thing I ever did for my health, physical and mental, then going raw was next. Also I believe coffee affects mood, because when my husband has coffee, he's in a bad mood the next day

Thanks Kidraw also .

The toleration of herbs really depends on the individual in my opinion, as such as always i advise consulting a qualified practitioner which im not(so take my views as for information purposes at best).

I actually received a confirmed diagnosis of a genetic metabolic condition known as Pyroluria or HPU. Which i found out about myself and my doctor has finally taken on board. The severe inner tension and stress of this disorder was what caused my secondary adrenal exhaustion. I can actually tolerate stimulants once again since treating myself but i consume them in very small amounts if any these days as i see no distinct benefit other than enjoyment in moderation. I get more than enough flavonoids and antioxidants from other plant foods.

You say you differed from other people, this is something i can relate to alot and many Pyroluric individuals feel that they can relate to never really feeling right during life. Pyrrole disorder tends to begin in the teenage years due to increased need for Zinc, which is when many of the symptoms of emotional instability and such begin, due to a traumatic or stressful event. The is a common underlying biochemical marker which goes undiagnosed in the majority of these individuals in my opinion.

The best replacement for stimulants, is to address the reasons why you are so prone to reaching for them . If this is due to adrenal exhaustion, or low dopamine, to move your bowels as a bowel motility stimulant etc.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 08:38PM by powerlifer.

KidRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say if you go without coffee and gluten
> and do juicing, you'll feel like a million dollars
>
>
> Going gluten-free was the best thing I ever did
> for my health, physical and mental, then going
> raw was next. Also I believe coffee affects mood,
> because when my husband has coffee, he's in a bad
> mood the next day


Kid, were you very attached to bread and such before you quit? See, I have been avoiding gluten since Sunday, as well, and didn't crave it as much as I thought. But I did make some steel-cut oats and brown rice. I just like variety.

No, I was never into bread, but pasta, yes. If you haven't had gluten since Sunday, that's great, and I would definitely keep it up.

There are a lot of gluten-free products at Whole Foods - they have a green sticker under them on the shelf. Tinkyada Pasta Joy is the best pasta brand, King Arthur Flour is good for baking, there's a gluten-free Bisquick in the supermarket, Gluten-Free Pantry makes all kinds of mixes for pancakes, muffins, etc., and Whole Foods makes a whole line of gluten-free bakery items in the freezer section. A lot of supermarkets also have a gluten-free section or else have the stickers to designate them.

I had brain-fog/depression and felt a weird pressure in my head and it went away when I went gluten-free.

LOL--too late now I had a pumpernickel bagel this morning But I was surprised that I was able to hold out for four days--honestly. Gives me hope.

As far as substitutes, I will have to check out the ones you mentioned. I remember back when I worked in a health food store (in late '90s, early 00s) and they had that EnerG brand. Ick! It was brown and white rice bread. Looked nasty. I never got into rice cakes. I recall the craze with them in the '80s and thought it was crazy--no taste and texture like cardboard.

Trader Joe's sells organic brown rice pasta for $1.99 a pound. Not bad at all. Not crazy with the texture--it tends to get a bit starchy when boiled.

I would like to see if I like quinoa again. I couldn't believe how much they were charging for it at Whole Foods in the bulk bins! I wonder if the demand has raised the cost...Maybe TJ's has it cheaper...

haha i never realized how old a brand EnerG was and i still sometimes buy there products, if i remember there muffins are the best.. The gluten free bread in most cases is pretty crappy and ive tried lots of brands, it can be very hard to break free from the sandwich/wrap mentality especially for lunches also. Saying that i have had good brands of gluten free rolls rich in fiber and obviously wheat/gluten free grains used.

As a kid i was built on the foundation that a sandwich was the common healthy lunch. The most common lunch here in the UK seems to be a sandwich, and a grain/cereal based breakfast. The role of wholegrains are far too over emphasized in my opinion. It makes you wonder because how would these people have ate before the introduction of grains and agriculture.

I bought some of that genius brand gluten free bread and 90% of the loaf fell apart simply by taking it out the packet. Disgrace, there is simply no reason gluten free bread has to be this poor quality when i have had other gluten free rolls and breads that are edible lol. These foods are poor nutritionally though and often omega-6 pro inflammatory rich, so will want to be minimized likely.
[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 10:22PM by powerlifer.

I have never had an outright issue with gluten so it's not something that I need to avoid because of any horrible side effects or anything but I would like to try and see how it feels to go without it. I believe I have ADD and would possibly improve my concentration, etc. if I eliminate it, along with caffeine, refined sugar, etc.

I feel that sprouted whole wheat is much easier tolerated, at least for me. It is less dense. I like making sandwiches with dulse, lettuce and tomato, which I believe are a lot better than cheese, due to food combining.

Powerlifer, good to see your input again for a bit of balance and realism. Maybe you should avoid getting into any debates or heated exchanges with the '' all or nothing '' few who live in their own world.

Glad to see PL back!


Due to the complexity that many many variables play, I would say to create your own theories about coffee instead of seeking a 'general' common theory.

If ever anyone needed motivation to kick the Coffee Habit, look at what it does to Spiders. Note: you got to go to the link to see the Pictures!!!

[www.trinity.edu]
Spiders On Drugs

Scientists at the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) have turned their attention from the mysteries of the cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what happens when you get a spider stoned. Their experiments have shown that common house spiders spin their webs in different ways according to the psychotropic drug they have been given. Nasa scientists believe the research demonstrates that web-spinning spiders can be used to test drugs because the more toxic the chemical, the more deformed was the web.

* Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to lose concentration about half-way through.

* Those on Benzedrine - "speed" - spin their webs "with great gusto, but apparently without much planning leaving large holes", according to New Scientist magazine.

* Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks, tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a few threads strung together at random.

* On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of sleeping pills, spiders "drop off before they even get started".

* See what happens to their mental state.

Drug Free Spider Web


Web created while exposed to Mescaline\Peyote


Web created while exposed to LSD


Web created while exposed to Marijuana


Web created exposed to Caffeine


Web created exposed to Benzedrine/Speed


Web created exposed to Chloral Hydrat (sleeping pills)
[www.trinity.edu]

Peace and Love..........John

if if you believe you have liver problems like cirrhosis (alcohol, etc), coffe in moderation could be beneficial

[www.popsci.com]

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If ever anyone needed motivation to kick the
> Coffee Habit, look at what it does to Spiders.
> Note: you got to go to the link to see the
> Pictures!!!
>
> [www.trinity.edu]
> Spiders On Drugs
>
> Scientists at the United States National
> Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) have
> turned their attention from the mysteries of the
> cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what
> happens when you get a spider stoned. Their
> experiments have shown that common house spiders
> spin their webs in different ways according to the
> psychotropic drug they have been given. Nasa
> scientists believe the research demonstrates that
> web-spinning spiders can be used to test drugs
> because the more toxic the chemical, the more
> deformed was the web.
>
> * Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at
> spinning webs but appeared to lose concentration
> about half-way through.
>
> * Those on Benzedrine - "speed" - spin their webs
> "with great gusto, but apparently without much
> planning leaving large holes", according to New
> Scientist magazine.
>
> * Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed
> by Britons in soft drinks, tea and coffee, makes
> spiders incapable of spinning anything better than
> a few threads strung together at random.
>
> * On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of sleeping
> pills, spiders "drop off before they even get
> started".
>
> * See what happens to their mental state.
>
> Drug Free Spider Web
>
>
> Web created while exposed to Mescaline\Peyote
>
>
> Web created while exposed to LSD
>
>
> Web created while exposed to Marijuana
>
>
> Web created exposed to Caffeine
>
>
> Web created exposed to Benzedrine/Speed
>
>
>
> Web created exposed to Chloral Hydrat (sleeping
> pills)
> [www.trinity.edu]
>
> Peace and Love..........John


LOL!!! I have seen that before--hilarious (and scary) and the interpretations are even funnier. For instance, the spider on weed starts off well and then kind like, you know, drops off...But they don't give an explanation about what's going on with the tripping spiders...

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if if you believe you have liver problems like
> cirrhosis (alcohol, etc), coffe in moderation
> could be beneficial
>
> [www.popsci.com]-
> coffee-good-you-here-are-7-reasons


You know, I was at a coffee house recently and found it amusing that they posted some research study regarding coffee's benefits. The dosage was five cups a day! That is insane, isn't it? Even I would not drink that much.

I went off of coffee (and caffeine) Jan. 7th. Tomorrow will be 8 wks, I believe. Yay me!!

What do you all think about bee pollen??

Mindy

green apple juice is a great pick me up in the morning. green smoothie too, on days when i have that there is zero craving for caffeine or any mid-morning energy slump.
if you get a headache when going without coffee green tea can help a bit. yerba mate contains matein (sp?) which in trials has been shown to be nearly identical to caffeine but possibly milder/less harmful to the body. tastes like dog water to me though, blech. my mom kicked her coffee habit by slowly reducing the amount she was drinking, substituting decaf. so 3/4 c reg with 1/4 c decaf the first couple days, half and half the next couple days, 1/4 c reg the last few days. that really helped ease her off.
good luck!

Coco, I was under the impression that yerba mate contained caffeine so I looked it up on Wikipedia. They mentioned caffeine and when I typed in MATEINE, it redirected to caffeine. And then with Google's help, I got this:

[www.erowid.org]

First, I love that site .
Second, thanks for the link. Last I heard people were still debating this, glad to have it cleared up once and for all.

What I found interesting was that although I didn't go off caffeine for a long time (4.5 days ain't all that), I noticed that even on my third day back using it, I was totally able to walk to church, sit there, come home and be there all afternoon without any blah feelings in the least. I did go out for coffee after 5 pm. I used to NEVER drink coffee past noon but now it's not too much of an issue.

Oh, but I did stay awake until 2 am...

I must say ive never had a cup of coffee in my life, its just not something i was ever drawn too. Not that it mattered with the amount of other horrible stimulants i did in my youth.

I might try it one day, ive tried caffeine in other forms though such as guarana or energy drinks and i think its a truly horrible chemical lol.

For an energy boost that is also adrenal supportive/adaptogenic i like korean ginseng tea - Korean Red Ginseng Tea. The korean ginseng corp brand is the highest quality, 6 year aged root.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2013 09:22PM by powerlifer.

PL, you're from UK, right? I suspect that coffee is not as popular as here? Did you have a tea habit at one time?

I can't believe this but Chicago is the capital of the country in coffee consumption. Starbuck's began in Seattle and they have a rep, as well. Lots of rain up there and cloudy days...But I must admit that I am surprised about this area being #1.

I had never tried a Red Bull but they were handing them out at a university I frequent so I took one. It tasted like creme soda! I was pretty surprised at that but I think it's worse to consume a beverage that has caffeine ADDED to it rather than it being there naturally. I believe the effects are more drug-like.

I have never been a coffee drinker myself. However, I will admit, at one point I was addicted to vivarin ( caffeine) stimulant to get me through my day.. it was bad, but I still wonder if I was the only one who took this?

Now and then, I want to buy some when I am in school, but I know it will mess me up, so I just wait it out.