Panchito, did you have a lapse of memory? Shouldn't you have had a nice large separate photo of Harley with

1) a nice big needle showing him injecting himself with B12.

2) show him holding the dispenser of white sugar from the cafe and pouring half of it in his water bottle for carbohydrates.

3) and a nice big caption with him eating 3 pizzas nonstop.

Isn't that a great advertisement for the Poster Boy for 80/10/10 and how Doug Graham always talks about the athletes following his diet. Yes, Harley can run miles and ride his bike for miles - but he doesn't seem to be able to do it any more without his 15 teaspoons of white sugar, 3 pizzas and all the cooked food, but I do give him credit for his honesty.

you guys forget me. i am 10 years raw

life vs lifelessness

How old are you Diogenez? Are you 100% raw vegan? Have you been 100% raw the whole time?

The raw diet works for a small number of people, but the success rate is low. There are also many many people who eat a healthy diet of both raw and cooked and lived well into their 80's and 90's. I think we need to tell people all the facts and not paint a totally unrealistic picture. I don't think many people will be able to eat 12 bananas for lunch when they hit their 70's, so what will they do then?

There are many many healthy people who aren't 100% raw but eat a healthy diet. It's not a case of 100% raw versus a junk food diet, or 100% raw versus a 100% cooked food diet and this is how some of the raw foodists portray things and that's not the right comparison.

How many raw gurus would film themselves eating 3 pizzas nonstop or pouring half a jar of white sugar into their water bottle? And I used to think there was no honesty in the raw food movement, but Harley proved me wrong.

I think I might sign up to ' 30 pieces of pizza a day ', only problem is that after 4 slices I start to get full.

yes i am 100% i am 37 yea the whole time
it works for all humans. i was born into raw and grew up at the Temple Beautiful and Hippocrates with ann and viktorus.

follow nature bro this is about hygiene . you define stuff how you want but there is no 100% anything sure you can close but its about whole raw fresh ripe plant . simple get enough.
811rv takes the cake everywhere i look in healing and performance.
there exist no gurus. be your own. sure hear people you want to learn from but not blindly like anne osborne says. never buy a product, you don't need it if you eat enough .

i don't agree with harley changing but he is headed for different goals i suppose and tht people here and there and everywhere talk about it brings interest . ok by me

life vs lifelessness

I will continue to eat raw it works for me and I am sure it has worked for thousands of people.
What were reading is some people who are not raw and seem excited to prove that raw does not work. My friends it works and you do not have to be 100 percent raw for it work.
The simple fact of replacing a breakfast of doughnut, fried eggs with a cantaloupe and glass fresh carrot or celery juice is a win.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will continue to eat raw it works for me and I
> am sure it has worked for thousands of people.
> What were reading is some people who are not raw
> and seem excited to prove that raw does not work.
> My friends it works and you do not have to be 100
> percent raw for it work.
> The simple fact of replacing a breakfast of
> doughnut, fried eggs with a cantaloupe and glass
> fresh carrot or celery juice is a win.

Great point!

I believe humans are waterside animals (prof. Alistair Hardy, "aquatic ape". So, whatever comes from the sea is good for us. Pizza certainly isn't.
I still eat about 80% vegan and I love it. I have added some other food because I truly believe we need it, but I haven't eaten any bread, meat or milk for 3+ years. I will never go back to SAD if I can avoid it by any means. I actually never liked pizza, even before I became (at first) 100% vegan (now ~ 80%).
I still think that 80/10/10 book is one of the very important books in the history of human diet, but I don't think it has all the answers.
Humans definitely are gardeners of the Earth.
I believe in permaculture, natural food.

...going back to pizza is a bad moment but don't we all have them? I am sure the guy will recover, find his own way.

if the normal diet is safe, why do they fortify the foods? why would they add iodine to salt. why would they add B12 to cereal. Why add vitD or C? Why add calcium by law to flour? And how come nobody cries wolf? But hey, if a vegan eats a vitamin supplement, baby Chesus!, theoretical sacriledge.

Harley has gone crazy it is summer in Australia and he still eats cooked. After bullying people for years who ate cooked. Telling people white sugar is the same as fresh juice.
They should just say they are vegans and change their sites name.

I miss the old days of raw.

Message from a former fruitarian who focussed on mainly eating bananas - his diet was similar to 80-10-10. He said get back to him if you make it on a high fruit diet longer than 10 years.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2013 10:49AM by The Sproutarian Man.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets start by saying fortified cereals and such
> exist because people don't eat a healthy
> nutritionally balanced diet or can't afford too.
> Relying on fortified refined sugar laden cereals
> is no better than eating junk food and taking a
> supplement.

Your theory. In reality, fortifying salt with Iodine saved lives in the US (heavy meat eaters). Being an animal eater does not save you from deficiencies.


> Nutrients are added back to white flours because
> they have been refined to the point of being
> stripped of most of there nutrients. Another
> reason to ditch white refined grains and switch to
> wholegrains if you haven't already and still
> consume grains.

yeah, but why you just justify it as OK, but if you eat a supp in the 801010 you yerk your knee? AT THE LONG TERM, NO FORTIFIED FOODS WILL WEAKEN THE DIET OF ANIMAL EATERS. You see only what you want

> None of the above retracts from the fact that the
> 80/10/10 is a seriously deficient diet.
>

People have plenty of info right now. They can make decissions. Ususallly the people who live to sink the 801010 and are authors or defenders of of other diets look like sh*t. The big Q is why do they look like sh*t if they ate all those animals and were not DEFICIENT



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:17AM by Prana.

We are getting away from the message of this board. RAW VEGAN.

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many raw gurus would film themselves eating 3
> pizzas nonstop or pouring half a jar of white
> sugar into their water bottle? And I used to think
> there was no honesty in the raw food movement, but
> Harley proved me wrong.
>
> I think I might sign up to ' 30 pieces of pizza a
> day ', only problem is that after 4 slices I start
> to get full.


I missed the Pizza-Gate video so would you please be so kind as to post it again if you did so already? I scrolled thru the comments and could not find any video on it.

You should try hanging out at the site 30bananasadaysucks.com

That's the best way to get news on the latest doings of the 30BAD trolls and the endless failures on the 30BAD diet.


banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BJ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many raw gurus would film themselves eating
> 3
> > pizzas nonstop or pouring half a jar of white
> > sugar into their water bottle? And I used to
> think
> > there was no honesty in the raw food movement,
> but
> > Harley proved me wrong.
> >
> > I think I might sign up to ' 30 pieces of pizza
> a
> > day ', only problem is that after 4 slices I
> start
> > to get full.
>
>
> I missed the Pizza-Gate video so would you please
> be so kind as to post it again if you did so
> already? I scrolled thru the comments and could
> not find any video on it.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should try hanging out at the site
> 30bananasadaysucks.com
>
> That's the best way to get news on the latest
> doings of the 30BAD trolls and the endless
> failures on the 30BAD diet.
>
>
> banana who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BJ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > How many raw gurus would film themselves
> eating
> > 3
> > > pizzas nonstop or pouring half a jar of white
> > > sugar into their water bottle? And I used to
> > think
> > > there was no honesty in the raw food
> movement,
> > but
> > > Harley proved me wrong.
> > >
> > > I think I might sign up to ' 30 pieces of
> pizza
> > a
> > > day ', only problem is that after 4 slices I
> > start
> > > to get full.
> >
> >
> > I missed the Pizza-Gate video so would you
> please
> > be so kind as to post it again if you did so
> > already? I scrolled thru the comments and could
> > not find any video on it.

I went there and their info was as sketchy as what I have seen here.

I admit not to having any history with DR or Freelee but who the hell cares what they do! And as for being rude, I am more like them in my attitude than being fake nice. I find that some of the most dishonest, passive-aggressive types make a point of being "nice" and yet I can't stand to be near them. A little snark is more human to me.

I don't know. If you can't find their videos and evidence-based discussion of their BS at 30BADsucks you're simply not looking. The fact is that 2 trolls/losers went around bullying anyone on the face of the earth who was not 100% raw. Now that they've learned that 100% isn't the cash cow they had hoped for, they're singing a different tune. Hypocrites, charlatans, total scumbags...the list of pejorative descriptors for those hillbilly boobs is endless. The main purpose of 30BADsucks is to discuss their con-artistry and that of other shady gurus. Why it needs to also be done in-depth in this forum is beyond me. They're annoying.


banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You should try hanging out at the site
> > 30bananasadaysucks.com
> >
> > That's the best way to get news on the latest
> > doings of the 30BAD trolls and the endless
> > failures on the 30BAD diet.
> >
> >
> > banana who Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > BJ Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > How many raw gurus would film themselves
> > eating
> > > 3
> > > > pizzas nonstop or pouring half a jar of
> white
> > > > sugar into their water bottle? And I used
> to
> > > think
> > > > there was no honesty in the raw food
> > movement,
> > > but
> > > > Harley proved me wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I think I might sign up to ' 30 pieces of
> > pizza
> > > a
> > > > day ', only problem is that after 4 slices
> I
> > > start
> > > > to get full.
> > >
> > >
> > > I missed the Pizza-Gate video so would you
> > please
> > > be so kind as to post it again if you did so
> > > already? I scrolled thru the comments and
> could
> > > not find any video on it.
>
> I went there and their info was as sketchy as what
> I have seen here.
>
> I admit not to having any history with DR or
> Freelee but who the hell cares what they do! And
> as for being rude, I am more like them in my
> attitude than being fake nice. I find that some of
> the most dishonest, passive-aggressive types make
> a point of being "nice" and yet I can't stand to
> be near them. A little snark is more human to me.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Lets start by saying fortified cereals and such
> exist because people don't eat a healthy
> nutritionally balanced diet or can't afford too.


Relying on fortified foods is also a double edged sword. Why? Because the vitamins added to foods are usually synthetic and contain various chemicals in them. Even organic fortified foods are well known to contain petochemicals, terpentine and coal tar when vitamins B, E and D are added. AND...if you eat packaged certified organic foods you are likely to find MSG hidden under a disguised name (the law was changed to allow loopholes to diguise MSG in foods).

The food supply is a mine field. The message is -
* rely on fortification or synthetics for minimal periods and get back to high quality nutritious fresh foods.
* use a low dose natural supplement if needed
* maximise bioavailability of nutrients via traditional food processing techniques.

It would have been nice if Durian Rider and Freelee admitted their mistakes and aplogised, it would put them in a better light. Various people have been saying this because it has left a foul smell of air around them of late.

I feel they are good people with good hearts, but they have been caught up in the temptations that can trap us all (ego, exposure, money) and they want the show to go on.

We all can make poor decisions and ignore certain things, but sometimes we must do things to re-set our standing in a community. l feel both folks need to repair the damage done to their character because they are good people inside, but they have lost their way abit.

There must be so many confused people who have just started on this 80-10-10 diet. Many of it's promoters have exposed their ignorance and/or failures, and now many followers probably don't know where to turn.

I'd say they lost "their way" by about 10K miles. Go to their web-site. The vast majority of their followers are KIDS. The best that can be said of that situation is that those kids are learning to identify shysters at a young age.


The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would have been nice if Durian Rider and
> Freelee admitted their mistakes and aplogised, it
> would put them in a better light. Various people
> have been saying this because it has left a foul
> smell of air around them of late.
>
> I feel they are good people with good hearts, but
> they have been caught up in the temptations that
> can trap us all (ego, exposure, money) and they
> want the show to go on.
>
> We all can make poor decisions and ignore certain
> things, but sometimes we must do things to re-set
> our standing in a community. l feel both folks
> need to repair the damage done to their character
> because they are good people inside, but they have
> lost their way abit.
>
> There must be so many confused people who have
> just started on this 80-10-10 diet. Many of it's
> promoters have exposed their ignorance and/or
> failures, and now many followers probably don't
> know where to turn.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd say they lost "their way" by about 10K miles.
> Go to their web-site. The vast majority of their
> followers are KIDS.

Yes, and it makes me feel sorry for them - first impressions can be long lasting and shape one's thinking for the future.

There used to be a 15 year old on another raw forum who was 80-10-10 all raw for 6 months before he disappeared. He used to rave about `the Rider' (D.R) and F.L like they were all knowing heros, and he used to go giving advice to many people like he was an expert. If people were having problems with diet he would message them suggesting they do 80-10-10. He also used to tell me l was wrong on many things because D.R and 30BAD said things to the contrary.

Another teenager even made a video saying Gabriel Coisens was out of his depth and had little clue.

I simply can't go to that site...too many teenage experts.

I just feel very blessed that my raw journey started the way l did. It has never let me down. Could have easily taken a natural hygiene turn, could have become heavily influenced with initial impressions and ended up on the scrap heap, but it was Wigmore and Kulvinskas from the first day. Thank goodness. Wigmore's way is my way.

The feelings of hunger, tiredness, physical cravings and falling apart are just something that doesn't happen on a really good diet, and if it is happening it is time to seriously review your diet.

I've got the best of both worlds with raw - no floaty feeling, but a highly spiritual feeling along with being very grounded in the real world. It's like l can be high spiritual master one minute and then flick a switch and talk to the average man down the street the next. The mental, spiritual and physical functioning is so high level. It's about being a master of your environment...being in control, and making the raw diet work for you.

I honestly don't know how the natural hygienists manage to stay sane on such a diet. l'd fall apart if l ate the diets most raw folks do - the fruits rarely boost me, the vegetables are neutral feeling, the nuts and seeds are draining - would rather have the rocket feul.

www.thesproutarian.com

Here is a new boy on the block slowly becoming a raw food guru. They all talk like experts and it makes painful viewing...can only ever watch 30 seconds of those types of videos.
[www.youtube.com]

Looks good at the moment, but will he also be a train wreck like so many others?

Forget the dogma, why don't people have the ability to see the pros and cons of diets in a real world? The first clue should be success rates, and if people are failing, there needs to be good investigation into possible causes. But people want to live in a dream world (especially the raw food world) and they wear blinkers on their eyes.

this forum has turned to a natural food hate site

life vs lifelessness

By the way, the 30bad diet is not Doug Graham's 80/10/10 diet. There are some significant differences:

1) the 30bad diet says eat 2500 calories for women, 3000 calories for men, and don't pay attention to what your body is saying if it is rebelling against this intake of food.

2) Any amount of food less than their defined amounts are considered calorie restricting, which is highly not recommended in the 30bad diet.

3) the 30bad diet recommends more like 95/5/5 rather than 80/10/10.

Sigh: The kid looks like he just found religion (no offense to anyone). A zealot.


The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a new boy on the block slowly becoming a
> raw food guru. They all talk like experts and it
> makes painful viewing...can only ever watch 30
> seconds of those types of videos.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Looks good at the moment, but will he also be a
> train wreck like so many others?
>
> Forget the dogma, why don't people have the
> ability to see the pros and cons of diets in a
> real world? The first clue should be success
> rates, and if people are failing, there needs to
> be good investigation into possible causes. But
> people want to live in a dream world (especially
> the raw food world) and they wear blinkers on
> their eyes.

I think the more accurate description of the 80/10/10 diet is ...

80 per cent failure rate.

10 per cent success.

10 per cent ambivalent.

You would think with such a low medium to long term success rate he would question why it is so. In fact I wonder if he even has such a high success rate as 10%.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3) the 30bad diet recommends more like 95/5/5
> rather than 80/10/10.

That could make a big difference in hormonal function long term. The difference is theoretically subtle but practically real. People are a lill different. Eat the fats at night because during sleep is when hormones are made.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2013 09:46AM by Panchito.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know. If you can't find their videos and
> evidence-based discussion of their BS at
> 30BADsucks you're simply not looking. The fact is
> that 2 trolls/losers went around bullying anyone
> on the face of the earth who was not 100% raw. Now
> that they've learned that 100% isn't the cash cow
> they had hoped for, they're singing a different
> tune. Hypocrites, charlatans, total scumbags...the
> list of pejorative descriptors for those hillbilly
> boobs is endless. The main purpose of 30BADsucks
> is to discuss their con-artistry and that of other
> shady gurus. Why it needs to also be done in-depth
> in this forum is beyond me. They're annoying.

LOL an't that the truth!

>PL, what about the success stories? Graham, Harley and Freelee, Kristina, Tarah, Megan Elizabeth all claim to have been 80-10-10 for years. I believe them. I just wonder if their particular constitutions are more suited for a low-fat diet compared to other folks...<]

Banana Who, how can you believe them, when it's been well documented that they are no longer following the regimens that they recommend??

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Hi Kwan,

How are you? I've been totally out of the loop, but I'm very glad to see you.

By the way, you look great, and I love your beautiful smile!