kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >PL, what about the success stories? Graham,
> Harley and Freelee, Kristina, Tarah, Megan
> Elizabeth all claim to have been 80-10-10 for
> years. I believe them. I just wonder if their
> particular constitutions are more suited for a
> low-fat diet compared to other folks...<]
>
> Banana Who, how can you believe them, when it's
> been well documented that they are no longer
> following the regimens that they recommend?


Kwan, I know that you've been on here much longer than I have. I didn't even know that DR used to post here. So I am not aware of what they formerly advocated. And while it may not be 100% raw, I do know that Dr. Graham doesn't disallow for cooked foods. At least I don't recall that he did.

I am curious how long some of these people will stay at that incredibly low fat intake level more than anything else. I noticed that one of the younger gurus mentioned eating cooked veggies a couple of times recently and not liking them but my question is why to even do it in the first place?

Overall, a low fat vegan diet sure works to lower body fat index (make you skinny looking). Being raw or not, te 801010 is based on that principle. But that is not the whole story. Things get complex with hormones, calories, etc. For example, restricting calories could send the non-concious signal to convert everything to fat instead of rasising the metabolism. You would get cold hands, etc. Then there are other issues with micronutrients from iodide, zinc, calcium? that help raise the metabolism (and burn fat). The biggest mistake is blindly to jump a non vegan diet (to supposedly obtein what other Gurus say are the 'missing' nutrients) because then you introduce Extra hormones, Extra toxin loads, etc., that confuse/damage the regulatory glands of the body (and the heart). If you do the raw 801010 and get cold hands, then introduce cooked foods to boost the calories (like raw till 4pm). These should work for most people but others would need to further explore and discover their own metabolic ideosyncracies. don't take everything to the T because your body maybe temporarily uinique for whatever reason.

Sound advice, Panchito. I just think about this as a woman and with the whole hormonal issue. I have no children and my eggs are probably drying as we speak, LOL, but I think I have always craved heat. For instance, even in the summer I will have hot beverages. People have remarked that I have cold hands. So restricting oil to that degree seems counter-intuitive for my situation.

Mem have an advantage with with their higher testosterone. You also have to consider that some body made nutrients decline with age (like CoQ10) and have a profound effect on metabolism. To increase metabolism increase a lil more the proteins (and fat if doing 900505). Make sure your D levels are good. Exercise will clean the michondrias (body furnace). The mitochondrias are residual past bacteria (they have their own independent DNA). millions of ceels die in your body every day. The new born cells adquire their weakened parents DNA. The good news, is that the mitochondria DNA can recover and multiply (with exercise, detox, and diet) and so metabolism can recover in a clean running body.

this is how science describes body heat (and burn body fat)

[en.wikipedia.org]

"In warm-blooded animals, body heat is maintained by signaling the mitochondria to allow protons to run back along the gradient without producing ATP (proton leak). This can occur since an alternative return route for the protons exists through an uncoupling protein in the inner membrane. This protein, known as uncoupling protein 1 (thermogenin), facilitates the return of the protons after they have been actively pumped out of the mitochondria by the electron transport chain. This alternative route for protons uncouples oxidative phosphorylation and the energy in the PMF is instead released as heat."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 06:45PM by Panchito.

For those who think Doug Graham allows a little cooked food in 801010, here's his reply a few weeks ago to someone on vegsource. He even goes to say that anyone recommending cooked foods is not a part of the 801010 movement.





Reply To This Post Return to Posts Index VegSource Home



From: Dr. Doug Graham (DrGraham.vegsource.com)
Subject: Re: Dr D - question on 811 and cooked starches
Date: November 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm PST


In Reply to: Dr D - question on 811 and cooked starches posted by Janet on November 9, 2013 at 4:18 am:



Yes, my experience is similar to yours. I can't recommend any cooked starches at all, and strongly recommend against them. Your perspective on food volume changes dramatically when you eat raw, hence what you call "a little" starch, other people might call "quite a bit."
Either way, I don't recommend cooked food of any kind, so don't know what you mean when you say, "this movement." I don't consider people promoting cooked foods to be part of "this" movement, exactly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 06:46PM by anon101.

[www.vegsource.com]


link for my post above.

NO. You are reading what you want to see. I recommended higher fat intake from a 900505 reference (the lowest you can get). I've always said that cuases hormonal imbalances. I've never opposed some specific supplements as far as I remember, expecially to adress potential balance issues or to achive a particular goal of recovering. Some people start depleted on something even from a SAD diet.


powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You've changed your tune Panchito, recommending
> higher fat intake, nutrients such as iodine, zinc,
> calcium etc there all the potential issues ive
> been posting about, yet your usually the most
> opposed to my opinions on these issues.
>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:17AM by Prana.

because I was refering to 900505 (not 801010). I've always said that some people would need a LIL more fat if they had hormones probs. That could mean 820909 or 781111 could work fine (depending on the individual). It is not an exact mathematical science.

Micro nutrients depend on soil. If you have your own garden and sprinkle Azomite (expensive) on the soil, then your micronutrients will be much higher. You see, plants absorb the minerals (and makes them bioavailable) so what they say in cronometer does not mean much as micronutrients can change by location.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 07:36PM by Panchito.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >PL, what about the success stories?
> Harley and Freelee,

Are they really success stories??? Have you seen what they are eating these days? And then there was F.L recently talking about how she went back to eating meat for a short while a couple of years ago.

Still, l am glad they come out and have been honest about their failures on all raw.

And is Kristina really a paleo girl now?

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never heard mitochondria explained this way.

this is what wikipedia says:

[en.wikipedia.org]

"Origin

Nuclear and mitochondrial DNA are thought to be of separate evolutionary origin, with the mtDNA being derived from the circular genomes of the bacteria that were engulfed by the early ancestors of today's eukaryotic cells. This theory is called the endosymbiotic theory. "


"Susceptibility

mtDNA is particularly susceptible to reactive oxygen species generated by the respiratory chain due to its proximity. Though mtDNA is packaged by proteins and harbors significant DNA repair capacity, these protective functions are less robust than those operating on nuclear DNA and are therefore thought to contribute to enhanced susceptibility of mtDNA to oxidative damage. The outcome of mutation in mtDNA may be alteration in the coding instructions for some proteins,[23] which may have an effect on organism metabolism and/or fitness."

Relationship with aging

Though the idea is controversial, some evidence suggests a link between aging and mitochondrial genome dysfunction.[27] In essence, mutations in mtDNA upset a careful balance of reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and enzymatic ROS scavenging (by enzymes like superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase and others). There is thought to be a positive feedback loop at work; as mitochondrial DNA accumulates genetic damage caused by free radicals, the mitochondria lose function and leak free radicals into the cytosol. A decrease in mitochondrial function reduces overall metabolic efficiency.[28] Supporting such a link between longevity and mitochondrial DNA, some studies have found correlations between biochemical properties of the mitochondrial DNA and the longevity of species.[29] Extensive research is being conducted to further investigate this link and methods to combat aging.

panchito, you can also use glacial rockdust, or a rockdust that has a most of the trace minerals to enrich your food and soil. In addition, using compost and innoculating your soil with effective microorganisms will enhance the delivery of the minerals from the rockdust into your plants.

thanks for sharing information...

Nevermind just saw that someone made a thread about this.

According to this they've been eliminated from the Woodstock Fruit Festival or something. What a bunch of drama queens. Is this stuff even real? [30bananasadaysucks.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 06:07PM by HH.

I love this girl! lol. [www.youtube.com]

If the high fruit eaters aren't getting enough protein and eating shop bought fruits (many shop fruits are high in tannins) this can also work against the diet. No need to panic, but it's good to be aware of it because it is one of many possible reasons why failures can occur on high fruit diets. And if you eating lots of non organic foods you can expect alot more anti nutritional factors in the foods which will effect protein, mineral, fatty acid, carbohydrate utilisation etc (all can be found in the ref below - a highly recommended read). As l have said, don't panic, just be aware so if you have problems you can make some adjustments. There are always solutions to diet problems, but please lets not think all raw is going to be the solution to everything.

amounts of certain food substances that are relatively safe when consumed individually can sometimes, when taken together, have serious and even fatal events
(Osagie, 1998). An example is the presence of tannins in a protein-marginal diet.

and

It is well known that plants generally contain antinutrients
acquired from fertilizer and pesticides and
several naturally-occurring chemicals (Igile, 1996)


The need for adequate processing to reduce the antinutritional
factors in plants used as human foods and
animal feeds: A review

K. O. Soetan and O. E. Oyewole
[academicjournals.org]




and then this:

The presence of tannins in food can therefore lower feed efficiency, depress growth, decrease iron absorption, damage the mucosal lining of the gastrointestinal tract, alter excretion of cations, and increase excretion of proteins and essential amino acids (Reddy and Pierson 1994)

(link has been lost for this)


Some tannin is o.k, but we must eat fresh organic fruits and process the greens for better results.

I just want to open people's eyes to this stuff because the raw food leaders don't talk about this type of stuff, and given the high failure rates on raw they should be talking about it.

The natural hygiene diet is full of whammy's - not just double whammy's, but triple and quadruple and quintuple whammy's etc. Nutrition is the ultimate problem, but it goes much further than that. We have strayed a long way from nature and these are the consequences.

It has also been said that a person with high levels of internal enzymes and gut bacteria can actually break down many of the anti nutrients, but since most of us ate cooked food for many years before raw it probably means many of us can't break the anti nutritional components down.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 10:05PM by The Sproutarian Man.

It really does seem like DR is posting nonsense to get views and cash. I can see the funny side about a raw food man making out he is having a beer and cigarette to be ironic, but what is with the pregnancy talk? If she is not pregnant then it is a misleading video, and this makes me suspect motives behind such talk.

Freelee The Banana Girl Is PREGNANT!!!
[www.youtube.com]

And if it is not true, then it's not so good, is it?

I could post a video that says `most amazing footage of aliens ever taken - top secret footage released' and probably get millions of views, but is it the right thing to do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2014 08:57AM by The Sproutarian Man.

video says her pregnancy is due to the fact that she just ate food




cuz that is what happens if you eat 25 pounds of watermelon 30 bananas 30 kiwis
2 baskets of strawberries, 4 heads of butter lettuce, one head of romaine ,
17 durians and 27 apples along with 17 dragonfruit 15 starfruit 24 cherimoyas
50 dates ( the medjool ones) and a huge bowl of spirooli zucchini spaghetti with 2 pints of tomato basil pineapple dressing

anyhow... that's how you end up pregnant

What is so hard to understand about what Harley is doing. Though he promotes 811 he is not trying to fool anyone that he is doing it. He is doing Raw till 4 diet and thus helping more people who are just not ready for full raw diet. Light up on the guy, he is helping people.

deserthi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is so hard to understand about what Harley is
> doing.


Nothing.


Though he promotes 811 he is not trying to
> fool anyone that he is doing it.


Right. No problem there, lol.


He is doing Raw
> till 4 diet and thus helping more people who are
> just not ready for full raw diet.


He's so self sacrificing isn't he, deserthi? I'm just tearing up that he's eating tons of sugar and cooked food when he can afford not to, and knows better. Don't you just love his video displays of the ritualistic sacrifice of common sense for the good of his less moneyed followers? Oh the humanity, lol.



Light up on the
> guy, he is helping people.


Please lighten up on the people who can clearly see what is really going on.
Try not to be stupid.

WHen I click on the video it says VIDEO IS PRIVATE, can someone post the link to this, I want to see this, I am in that mood.

What happened to SueZ.?! She was here very active and then POOF!

If the Banana Girl were pregnant, it would mean that either she broke up with Harley, cheated on Harley, or she and Harley have an open relationship, as Harley often talks about how he has a vasectomy.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 07:42PM by Prana.

Prana! Thats what I was thinking, He says he wont have kids because he wont do that to this planet, and he is very into the propaganda and into green socialism and animal socialism, that we are overpopulated, need to be exterminated.. etc. I remember Taylor the fruitarian guy who sold tropical fruit online before Robby Barbaro took it over or something, posted all these DR rants on this subject. I couldnt believe it. Its so anti man, agenda 21.

But people are allowed their own beliefs, as long as they don't push it on me. I think people are beautiful and allowed to have babies without taxation or forced abortions..

If you ask me.

So anyways. No Freelea meant she is pregnant by eating too many bananas probably.
Thats what the 811 lady Teri Levenathal says, with the white hair says that when she eats 6lbs of pineapple she gains 6 lbs. In pineapple. And showed her belly and its possible that it looks pregnant a little. In her video.

ANYWAYS I need a link to the video you guys are talking about please, friends.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 09:56PM by coconutcream.

Coconut cream
The problem is that there are so many incentives to have children. There are social expectations, there are tax breaks, subsidies, welfare etc, factors which promote having more children than perhaps there would be without this artificial promotion.

I am not sure what to Make of Durian Rider eating pizza. I thought for sure he was promoting a raw vegan diet, with lots and lots of fruit, especially bananas. My mind it blown. So, Is it really possible to be raw vegan long term? Is this something which is held up as an ideal that nobody can really live up to? I was so surprised, pizza? and it looked like a white crust, shortening filled crust also. But what the hey, why deprive oneself?

By the way, I am not sure I really had to see him drink a quart of water, and start to eat pizza. I just shut the video off when he started.

I like when Free and Dr both go to a cooked thai restaurant and order stir fry cooked vegetable curry with extra plate of rice for each one. Or her and Neet, who used to be against them, cooking up in a boiling pot, dicing and boiling a veggie stew and baking potatoes and making a chili lime hot sauce. Wrapping hot potatoes in lettuce is not raw, nor close. Its so shocking. I mean. Maybe its been in the works for a long time before they admitted it, now its open they are cooked foodists. Not even guilty about it after so many years of outing raw food gurus for anything slight.



They want to move on, they are done with raw foods. They are sick of all the haters, and raw food losers, So be it. But I think, they never believed in 80 10 10 or the raw diet which is why they tried so hard to get everyone else to believe in it and sign this thing before you join 30 bad saying you believe everything that raw vegan high carb is the only way. That is so they can believe it themselves. You have to click Yes, I believe high carb raw food diet is the only way.. I feel so disillusioned. I even thought one night, hey maybe a cooked potato cant be that bad...lol. It is. Its the doorway back to disease and food disorders if you ask me. Same thing with cooked lentils. Its like all the work I have ever done in my life, for my health, beauty and love...destroyed if I go back to that cooked food brain dead world of total slavery to men and money and misery and disease - hating myself, and all that yucky stuff that us women go through before finding the answer, that maybe its my diet..

This is what the raw til 4 menu looks like now, it is not raw vegan.. It looks more macrobiotic




They make it my business to say this. I have given them so much of my energy and attention and I promoted them and followed them, bought their books. I loved them and thought they were amazing role models. And they let me down. I feel scammed. Disconnected horrified. Disgusted. I put up with all the animal socialism too
. I gave them way too much of my time. So it is my business to say something.

But I am dating a cooked foodist, its not about people or me hating on cooked foodists. Its about ideas. I do not like the ideas. I like them both as people. But I do not like the ideas they have. Its just personal. I struggled alot to stay raw. And its the best thing in the world. Maybe they can find this out. People do stray and binge on cooked food for months sometimes. But they come back. I would liek to see them come back and not to 811 but just raw vegan food.





Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2014 04:36AM by coconutcream.

Coconutcream,
I just wanted to let you know that I look up to you as a good example of a raw foodist.

Whatever happened to more modest raw food leaders that could at least be counted on to not actually slip? It's this fruitarian/811 stuff that is so hard to stay with. It's much easier just to be full from sprouts and sprouted nuts and leave the fruits and leafy greens as secondary foods, for a long time, until you're mature enough to handle what it's like to be a long-term raw foodist.

YOU MAY HAVE TO CLICK CONTROL AND MINUS SYMBOL together on keyboard TO MAKE THIS SCREEN SMALLER TO READ.

Whatever it takes to stay raw for life. I am so glad to come here, I come here angry, I come here sad, I come here with a bad attitude and you guys always give me the space to vent or say what I think. I come here judging others and am judged and yes it hurts. I am not mad at those two, I just mad at the change of heart and ideas...I think as a raw vegan I have a place here. I signed up or at least made all the recipes on this site that have not changed in a decade, when it first started. I have had many names. I admit I been around a few boards, but this has consistently been the one that stayed true. So I think I am allowed to say these things and be validated. I have also been raw a lot longer, a lot.

I know I need to always come here with good intentions. I do not want to slam anyone by saying look raw until 4, there is nothing raw about it. You are as raw as a mcdonalds garden burger. We have all made mistakes, all fell, let's pick each other up and support each other. I will always think of Free and Du in my heart, their videos inspired me so much, but something happened. When I grew up watching rock stars and a new album came out and it sucked, It feels the same way. I admit, I stopped following them a long time ago, but it shocks me when I do see something like them eating noodles, I see grossness. I feel queasy thinking about those noodles inside me and what it would do to me. And how they promote this openly. As if to say, @#$%& you all.

I feel they sold out somehow. For money. They get 20 k a month now on youtube hits and book sales..does that make them right in my heart. Well..then I am happy for them. Happy they are now getting paid for all their hard work talking about raw foods. Now you introduce cooked and bam, you have people's attention, that they do not have to change to get the full results of raw. they can still eat at Chinese Wok. They can still eat Chinese Food and be raw! I mean, that is what they are selling. And one day maybe they will be all raw, because that is what happened to Dr and free after all those years. Back to cooked food. Its a maze, its a MINDFUCK.

But how can you mix cooked food with raw fruits in your stomachs, will not it ferment, and the teeth and dehydration, are they freaks of nature and you can really eat a bowl of pasta and not gain weight? Did they discover the secret of the world, the best diet...something noone has ever gone before, or is someone fooling me? I just smell something.

I adore the raw vegan diet. I love it. I think its so beautiful. I think it heals me. Nothing ugly about it. Fills me up, satisfies me. I do not eat 20 oranges at a single meal either. I eat raw versions of burgers, raw cakes, often, not all the time. I love my big creamy raw dressing salad. I love my juices and smoothies. I change what I eat all the time. I think I am beautiful. I feel beautiful. I love the way I look. I did it, I stayed raw after all these years. Do you know how good that feels??? How proud I am. How hard it was, the struggles I went through. The bs I had to sit down and battle?

I think these raw food extreme fads that come and go, with the stars, gurus, and business people...it's just shades of personalities. Everyone does raw a little different. We should glory in variety. Try spiritual high greens, try an active fruitarian, change it around, eat some raw cake when sad. Have some raw kombucha when in a supermarket and thirsty once, try it out. Do not make rules. Don;t listen to others over your own hunger. Don't weigh your food, or weigh it for a week, try it out, then just eat what you want, then make a strict diet plan, then stop it..try everything..take photos of every dish, or just have good memories..raw is raw is raw...whether its an energy soup, and rejuvelac champagne with a wheatgrass @#$%& up your vajayjay...or you are doing jumping jacks with doug eating only fruits wearing short shorts, boobs bouncing, or eating high fat pad thai with Jackie Graff, or crying on the shoulder of Arnold in Lansing PA with raw vegan spaghetti, or drinking E3 with Annette..its all good. It's all different, all good. Let yourself GO, but make sure it is raw because that is where the purity is! There is a whole world that will take up all your time.

I try to make rules for my boyfriend and he rebels always. I feed him- all raw all the time and same with my family, but when he wants to eat cooked he will go out to eat. He will make something himself. And when grandma comes over, forget it. He is more raw than "raw until four". But I do not call him a raw foodist. Or raw until whenever. No, he is cooked. Admit it.

Do not ride the wagon of your success talking and spreading the news about raw food-- then surprising people and start selling cooked food.

I am glad people are making money. I am glad some have changed perspectives. I have too. I see there is no money in raw food, because its free. But I do enjoy money. I know full well why these raw food diets never become mainstream, because FAT PEOPLE WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT WITHOUT CHANGING THEIR DIET OR DOING ANY HARD WORK.
So in essence, it's like selling pills, or like selling bulimia, anorexia, fasting, the idea that binging is ok at the chinese wok restaurant...you can still be raw until 4. And you can still have a flat stomach. No, I just cannot see this.



Sometimes all that life force energy, it lasts a long long time after you go back to cooked food, You still look good for a year or two. I think, but eventually you will wind up where you were when you started, but aged 10 years, having to work out harder, faster...skinnier...weighing yourself again, vomiting up that noodle dish..there is no energy in cooked food. Its just filler. Argue all you want about it. The magic keyword vegan...cooked vegan. I am sorry, I am not going to be convinced to go back to cooked, no matter how my cooked food addiction screams inside.

My years of suffering and my whole lifetime it feels before raw and after raw..I was like a monster before. I suffered through two ballet classes a day, for years, vomiting, purging, binging, at places like Chinese Wok..then hating myself in the mirror. Feeling gross. Feeling fat. Not being able to function in a relationship. Being angry, not having many friends, praying a man will love me one day. Because I didn't. Only eating bagels, one a day. And taking creatine when dance class.OH GOD. It was awful. Then when raw vegan came into my life. All that disappeared for life. All my symptoms, gone in two days that plagued me for 5-10 years. I began to jog, I fell hard in love and still carrying relationships I started back then.

I have to stay true to raw vegan foods. Sometimes you have to stay true to what you believe and not let a lover partner convince you ( I did once) that something else is better, when you believe it not to be, but you say hey ok I try, and then you get sucked back into cooked food addiction so fast and so hard it may take you months or years to get back out of it.

So with that said, I do not hate anyone. I just have been there, and I know where I wound up. I would rather be wild and free. I need all the help I can get, not more temptation. I need support to stay raw all the time. Not with BS gurus, but friends online and some raw food potlucks in my area. This board for example.

Guys I am ( secret) years old. I have three kids!! I am still in love with myself.. I cannot afford to go back to cooked foods. The failures I have experienced, the things I HAD TO OVERCOME...to know the truth. This is about rejuvenation and living like you are 20 forever!! Please understand where I come from, ladies know better and choose life. Be able to have sex at a moments notice!! Don't you all want that? To feel beautiful. To have even young men look at you, all the time. Send you pm's love letters, etc? Have a man who is committed to you and will
never let you go, versus dating cooked food jock meatheads who have five other girls younger than you? Its that black and white for me. Having the vibrancy, the enviable glow..

No dried up cooked hot foods, exotic sauces and flavors, hidden processed white , sugars and hidden msg.. no more sickness, no death, no dehydration, no weird detoxes from your vagina. No monster in the mirror. No glue on teeth.

Riding a bike and having that feel for the trees blowing by. That the air is alive? That I feel so good, that the trees look so beautiful, I can see each leaf. I have peace of mind. I can grow my own fruits, climb plum trees, eat tomatoes berries from my garden...and from nature. Going skinny dipping...raw vegan has amplified these things in my life. Fresh well water. Swimming. Love making, loving what you see in the mirror. That is what all raw is to me. Being naked and not afraid to be seen.
Being a patient mother, loving, interested, laughing, just being in love with others.





Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2014 02:54PM by coconutcream.

I love how they say the Asian restaurants make their dishes especially "low salt" and "low fat" - they're not fooling me with their lies. Even so, even if it was low salt and fat, rice isn't exactly a great source of nutrition. Calories, yes, vitamins and minerals, no.