[www.youtube.com]


Curious what people think of this video. It reminds me of the typical conflict of most sites. Follow the rules or get banned. But should it be that cut-and-dried?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not a case of following the rules else freelea
> would be banned for her seaweed, cooked pasta
> videos recently which are on the NO list over
> there. Don bennett got banned recently too for
> speaking out about deficiencies and other
> non-vegan foods, yet freelea and durianrider are
> making videos of themselves eating pizza and
> burritos. Its ok for gurus to eat cooked food but
> not you lol.
>
> i heard doug grahams been on the bagels recently
> yet he's been 100% raw for 300 years. there is
> only one reason why you'd censor talk like this
> and that is to keep the raw diet looking good from
> the outside so that the next round of newbies
> still get sucked in.
>
> this is why we have to thank John and Prana for
> allowing an honest discussion to go on here, where
> everyone can chime in.
>

You are the second person to mention pizzas. Obviously that would be without cheese. They never said they are 100% raw. Freelee has shown herself eating cooked foods at night. But is there some specific video about pizza?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:18AM by Prana.

But do you have a link to Pizza-Gate? I went to the "30 bananas a day sucks" site and they claimed to have proof on a recent DR video of him eating pizza and it wasn't there. So it gives me the impression that it's all fake. And besides that fact, who creates a site simply to put down 80-10-10? Could it be Merck?

It is "madness" that high-raw folks sell 100%-raw book? Eh. A bit of hyperbole, IMO. I mean, these people DID go all-raw for a certain period of time so they have earned the right to discuss it. Perhaps it's better to market all-raw as a jump-start detox and not to totally dimiss it.

Oops, the speaker forgot to mention this website here. Just a mistake of course.

Do the 30 bad/graham folks ever mention where they might happen to get their iodine from if they're not supposed to eat seaweed? Do they use iodine-fortified salt or take a supplement, or do they just don't think they need iodine or what? Anyone know?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don bennett got banned recently too for
> speaking out about deficiencies and other
> non-vegan foods,

I actually tried to register there twice a couple of years ago but was unsucessful. They would have saw the name in my email address and thought l was coming for trouble LOL. I was only going to make one post, and that was for the Rider (J.R) to take up Dr Clement's offer of a free blood test done the Hippocrates way (the proper way which measures absorption, not what's in the blood) on any natural hygiene raw food leader. Two things would have come from this if the offer was taken up:

1. the `Rider' would have become a hero when he showed great nutrition levels on his diet, and his website would have become bigger.

2. the `Rider' would have been exposed as not knowing what people think he does, and the natural hygiene movement would have gone under serious question.




>yet freelea and durianrider are
> making videos of themselves eating pizza and
> burritos. Its ok for gurus to eat cooked food but
> not you lol.

I don't understand that, teaching one thing then doing another. That type of behaviour is going to lose followers, then again, there are always new types coming into raw who will get hooked into lots of nonsense promoted on the internet. The sad thing is that people follow these leaders for advice but they don't have the answers or approach to be real leaders. If you are a raw food leader and people are having problems on your diet, you've got to seriously look into why it's occuring and try to find solutions to the problems so you get a better understanding of the diet you are promoting.


>
> i heard doug grahams been on the bagels recently
> too from a good source yet if you ask him he's
> been 100% raw for 300 years.

Yes, it seems like Doug gets caught alot.


>there is only one
> reason why you'd censor talk like this and that is
> to keep the raw diet looking good from the outside
> so that the next round of newbies still get sucked
> in.

Yes. It's so sad and unfortunate. Many young impressionable folks are getting into this and using the 80-10-10 rules as a basis and they are coming acorss as experts after only 6 months raw, this is so sad and tragic, and l feel sorry for these people because they having looked into diet near enough to be the experts they think they are.



>
> this is why we have to thank John and Prana for
> allowing an honest discussion to go on here, where
> everyone can chime in.

So true. Open honest discussion and no bashing people for having various diets here, we learn to live togeather in harmony and respect people's decisions to try their diet without telling them they are wrong lol.

www.thesproutarian.com

Bananawho,

here's the pizza video. Pizza-gate starts at about 4.04 mins.


[www.youtube.com]

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harley was eating the pizza and yeah it was vegan
> i think, thats the punch line now, everything is
> ok aslong as its vegan it doesnt matter about
> being raw anymore.
>
> after all the bullying of others for not being
> 100%, ostracizing every public raw foodist who
> "failed" the diet which was just tandamount to
> bullying again, yet these people have now failed
> themselves and now preach that dietary purity
> doesn't matter over night. They brush there
> failure off as casually as that lol.
>
> its just a shame for the impressionable and ill
> who get sucked into these fad diets through
> intense youtube marketing. These people will still
> market 80/10/10 as the supreme diet to follow but
> can relax about not following it themselves, they
> will leave all there 100% raw videos, books up for
> sale etc.
>
> Fred P is the same, he lambasts the raw diet as
> dead yet still sells all of his raw food diet
> books on his website. Kristenraw who is now
> publically paleo on her blog, yet still sells all
> her vegan books and feels there is nothing wrong
> in doing so. Its madness and a total sham.
>
> I think i preferred when these guru's lied about
> what they ate.
>


Yes, it is sad to see how various raw leaders are giving the raw food diet such a bad name through lack of credibility and knowledge, yet continue selling all their `stuff'. It shows you that many raw food folks are not experiencing the magic; where are the feelings of love, peace and being honest that come from raw? where is the spiritual elevation that comes from raw? None of that seems to be occuring in many folks.

Why aren't these leaders looking at diet from a complete perspective...the pros and cons on their diet? That's what makes a real leader, someone who isn't afraid of the truth, someone who says `try the diet, but these are the possible problems, so be careful'.

If so many people are failing to stay on the N.H diet, why aren't these leaders looking into why? Why put the problem under the carpet and ignore it? Where are the morals of the raw fooders, isn't the diet supposed to make them better people?

Looking for fame, power and money seems just as alive in the raw food world as the cooked food SAD world. I am not seeing much difference between raw food folks when compared to SAD folks.

Check out the love on the grand old man of raw. This man has achieved what most raw fooders can only dream of, he has found a level of peace and love that can be had when the lifestyle is done well. If you eat FRESH raw foods, get detoxified and meditate...this is what happens. The honesty, peace and love just flows out of Viktoras...he has come a long way from his beginnings. Best raw speaker on the internet because of the tone he sets. Here is Viktoras, one of my mentors...so greatful to this wonderful man.
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2013 10:31PM by The Sproutarian Man.

some people will become enemies for life if they get banned. They may find a new mission as a hater. I haven't seen anybody that got banned and was happy about it. Basically, if someone bans you from their turf, you sympathize with the haters and try to camouflage the intentions as objective. It is about ego (both ways).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2013 10:46PM by Panchito.

I don't see the names of any leaders or guru's in this thread at all lol. except for BC of course. You would have to seriously question your sanity if you are to ever listen that quack DR. I wouldn't even waste my time watching the pizza video!

anon101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bananawho,
>
> here's the pizza video. Pizza-gate starts at about
> 4.04 mins.
>
>
> [www.youtube.com]

He is not going to have a HUGE salad before eating that???
Three large pizzas at 8:30 pm?
Not such a good example for health to teach his followers.

I've been away from this forum for so long that I didn't even know that it had switched over to allowing honesty and open discussion. That's good to hear.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not a case of following the rules else freelea
> would be banned for her seaweed, cooked pasta
> videos recently which are on the NO list over
> there. Don bennett got banned recently too for
> speaking out about deficiencies and other
> non-vegan foods, yet freelea and durianrider are
> making videos of themselves eating pizza and
> burritos. Its ok for gurus to eat cooked food but
> not you lol.
>
> i heard doug grahams been on the bagels recently
> too from a good source yet if you ask him he's
> been 100% raw for 300 years. there is only one
> reason why you'd censor talk like this and that is
> to keep the raw diet looking good from the outside
> so that the next round of newbies still get sucked
> in.
>
> this is why we have to thank John and Prana for
> allowing an honest discussion to go on here, where
> everyone can chime in.
>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:18AM by Prana.

Somewhere around late 3 minutes or early 4 minutes, poor Harley was pouring straight sugar into his water. My gosh. How about a few nuts or seeds for endurance?

Well maybe what they were doing before wasn't working for them. That's OK. I hope they find what they're looking for. Not sure this is the best new direction, but at least it's new.

I can't believe he actually ate the 3 pizzas. I thought it was just a gimmick, but it looks like he ate it. As for the sugar, would he actually have drank all that sugar with water? A real good advertisement for the raw vegan movement!!!

You have to give Harley marks for honesty, but take them all away for hypocrisy after what he has been preaching. Is their anything more unhealthy than pouring all that white sugar into water ( if he really drank it? ) and then sitting down to 3 pizzas in one sitting? Absolutely amazing, but maybe he has finally tired of all the bananas.

I have it on good authority that his website will soon be renamed '' 30 pieces of pizza a day '' - 3 pizzas cut into 10 slices.

There's another video of him eating 3 pizzas and pasta, but having them one at a time so it's more than a one off. Bloody unbelievable, but at least he isn't eating them in secret and still claiming to be 100% whatever.

Does he say if he is he making his own base, or is he buying the base? It looks pretty thick and airy so it looks almost like white flour pizza. I doubt if he could eat three 100% wholemeal pizzas.

This has shocked me almost as much as when i found out that Herbert Shelton was bedridden with Parkinson's disease for the last dozen or so years of his life and had to be spoon fed, washed and turned over.

he said his friend makes the pizzas sounds like social pressure

but no there is no fake cheese on them
this is the stuff i was doing before eating boilitarian after 2002.

i grew up with viktorus but 80 10 10 works great
and kristina is not doing paelo. this forum has people with self serving vendtas and adjendas i suspect

but yea them not doing 100%
i have been more in tune with Lockman and reading all these old books . fun

life vs lifelessness

I didn't say kristina, i said kristenraw who is another raw/vegan author who turned full blown paleo as you can see on her website, yet she still sells her vegan books.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 12:31PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't say kristina, i said kristenraw who is
> another raw/vegan author who turned full blown
> paleo as you can see on her website, yet she still
> sells her vegan books.


When did she go paleo? Because I bought her book on dehydrating recently. It's just a little book but I was under the impression that she was raw.

You know, I would be more shocked if you said that Harley was eating animal products. Simply eating pizza (as Matt has done on camera and it was a raw version) is not scandalous in my book. DR and Freelee promote a high-raw, high-carb lifestyle and not 100% raw. I thought they had done so in the past but it's really not important--the point is that they are open about what they eat. I will always respect that. I always suspect that they are not eating wheat because Freelee posts vidoes eating corn and brown rice pasta and quinoa and I am sure she's staying away from even whole wheat.

Excessive, ego-driven exercise will lead to a lot of bad food choices and eventually injuries. If someone is eating 3 vegan pizzas, it's probably because they exercised to the point where they have to eat that much to compensate for the burned calories. This will wreak havoc on the digestive system.

I just looked up Herbert Shelton on Wikipedia. He was incarcerated for 30 days at Riker's Island for practicing medicine without a license! It sounds like he led a very interesting life. I don't know how he got Parkinson's--that is another interesting factoid of which I was not aware...

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 04:25PM by banana who.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shes been paleo for a while as far as i know, her
> website shows paleo recipes for a while.
>
> I guess high raw is the benchmark excuse now, seen
> as how nobody can make 100% raw vegan work it
> seems.
>
> Yet i see a quote from Doug Graham just yesterday
> saying how great he thinks 80/10/10 is and that he
> doubts anyone will come up with anything better.
> Seriously ?, even the SAD diet is better. This is
> a man greatly in denial. How can you say that with
> conviction when you publically see that the
> majority fail your diet.
>

PL, what about the success stories? Graham, Harley and Freelee, Kristina, Tarah, Megan Elizabeth all claim to have been 80-10-10 for years. I believe them. I just wonder if their particular constitutions are more suited for a low-fat diet compared to other folks...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:17AM by Prana.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see Doug Graham commented - Harley why don't you
> just eat some fruit instead of pizza.

This statement from Doug Graham provides a classic example of a major flaw in his 80-10-10: He has always focused his entire food philosophy on MACROnutrients (carbs, protein, fats), while being entirely unconcerned about MICROnutrients. Micronutrients include all the vitamins and minerals that are essential for our existence.

So obviously, according to this mAcro-only approach, if you're craving a pizza, you don't need to pay any attention to possible mIcronutrient deficiencies. You just need more carbs, and the solution is to eat more fruit.

That is so wrong. We do need adequate micronutrients, as Powerlifter has said. IMO these are all available raw vegan (with the exception of B12), but it takes effort to learn about and access them, and this can't be done if we are philosophically opposed to eating more than a handful of nuts/seeds per day. It's simply impossible.

If we analyze Doug Graham's daily menus from his book for example, we find that each day of menus provides less than 50% of the RDA for calcium. As Powerlifter has said, the diet is woefully short on minerals, including zinc. It also lacks vitamin E.

So when people get unrelenting cravings, is it just for more carbs, when the diet is already supplying more carbs in a day than many people get in several days? If we're craving pizza, should we just eat more fruit? No. We can eat fruits until we're ready to burst, but if we're malnourished in essential vitamins or minerals, we'll still be craving something else. Most 80-10-10 people have experienced this feeling of being full, but still hungry at the same time. Unfortunately, they often don't know how to interpret this, and just blame themselves for some hidden character flaw. So sad.

I have similar concerns about Brian Clement's philosophy against fruits. We need macronutrients and micronutrients. We don't need unreasonably restrictive raw vegan diets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 07:19PM by suncloud.

Suncloud, I agree with your general premise although I think you should examine your feelings about RDA requirements. Do you really think Nature was set up for you to have to keep tabs on calcium mgs.? How do cows manage without consulting a nutrition blog?

It is my sense that just as the "complete protein" meme was debunked, we don't have to get x-number of mgs. of each nutrient or we will become deficient but rather over a period of time we have to make sure to get a varied diet.

Well of course banana who, I tend to agree with you. The basic point is that the more we limit the variety of foods we eat, the more we need to pay attention to getting the nutrients we need.

A raw food vegan diet does limit that variety somewhat already. If we additionally believe that we should severely limit even some raw vegan foods - like seaweeds/nuts/seeds/sprouted grains/sprouted legumes/fruits, etc., then we're going to find ourselves unable to sustain the diet.

Thanks bananawho for the opportunity to clarify.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 07:42PM by suncloud.

<<< Doug Graham's answer to treat nutrient deficiencies is to take a 10 grand water fast with him lol. Correcting deficiencies by consuming even less food is his sensible option.>>>





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 07:50PM by banana who.

they say an image speaks for a thousand words

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see Doug Graham commented - Harley why don't you
> just eat some fruit instead of pizza.
>
> He has a point, what is making him choose pizza,
> cereals, burritos etc over fruit. I guess he just
> needs to take his own medicine, fruit up and carb
> up.
>

Isn't grain foods supposed to be a big no no in the 80-10-10 theory? So if it is, why doesn't `the Rider' start consuming other so called un-natural foods like wheatgrass, sea weeds (good carbs) and other sprouted foods. If you want to carb up, why not start dehydrating sprouted grains and have them as bread.

One thing l have noticed very specifically about `the Rider' (J.R) is that his eyes have been noticeably red in many of his videos over the years. I have always kept this observation to myself, but it brings up serious questions. This eye redness shows his body is under strain imo, so what is causing this redness? I always gave J.R the benefit of the doubt and said it could have possibly been his extreme exercise workouts, but my intuition was saying something quite different....my intuition was saying that he was not 100% raw and that he was regularly binging on cooked foods which had an increased negative effect on his system because he was a high fruit eater, and this resulted in obvious red eyes.

Do other athletes who work hard get red eyes? If they don't then it could point to my intuition being correct on this.

Even F.L never rang true, and now we find out she was doing occasional cooked foods behind the scenes and even turning to meat at one time.

The next thing we know, dairy will be on the menu.

I think l enjoyed it better before they come out with their cooked foods. Now they make a mockery of the raw movement like most of the raw leaders. The respectability of the raw vegan movement has been torn down because unknowledgable people on diet have become self appointed raw diet gurus/experts. It's all competition and ego now and a big focus on food and business....the real values of raw are getting obscured and greatly watered down by these modern day internet gurus.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see Doug Graham commented - Harley why don't
> you
> > just eat some fruit instead of pizza.
> >
> > He has a point, what is making him choose
> pizza,
> > cereals, burritos etc over fruit. I guess he
> just
> > needs to take his own medicine, fruit up and
> carb
> > up.
> >
>
> Isn't grain foods supposed to be a big no no in
> the 80-10-10 theory? So if it is, why doesn't `the
> Rider' start consuming other so called un-natural
> foods like wheatgrass, sea weeds (good carbs) and
> other sprouted foods. If you want to carb up, why
> not start dehydrating sprouted grains and have
> them as bread.


That is a good point! I have been trying to get "Grain Damage" by Dr. Graham but it isn't carried by my library system. However, "80-10-10" mentions the problems with grains so it is a bit of cherry-picking to allow one thing and not another. Although it is in the carb family so there you go. But no way would I consume massive amounts of dates and coconut sugar daily in order to "carb up." I love sugar but even I have my limits!

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to carb up, why
> not start dehydrating sprouted grains and have
> them as bread.

Great point IMO!