I have been speaking to some major raw food leaders and academics (also raw fooders) on the raw food diet, and there are significant problems that the diet does pose. The good news is that it looks like we can solve many of these problems, but we can't solve them all.

After speaking to some highly respected people and colleagues of world respected health industry people, l have come to the conclusion without doubt that we must be very very careful when applying the raw food diet and also when fermenting our food. Some of these people are not your average raw food leaders, these people are very well researched with highly respected reputations around the world and do know what they are talking about.

As hard as it was to see the ugly truth, l CANNOT ignore their input. I feel very very lucky to have had them spend time communicating with me. We have discussed various issues, brought up the science, the clinical research and various other things. And they want to continue discussions of the raw food vegan diet problems with myself at a raw food conference next year so we can try and get to the bottom of the issues which plague the raw movement.

I must thank fellow poster `powerlifter’ for their concerns on the raw food diet because it has had me thinking very very deeply and seriously about some problems l hadn’t thought much about. I thought l had the solution via fermentation, but this is not so because there are also issues with fermentation if done too much. Fermentation can solve the copper/zinc ratio problem to a large degree, but it has a down side. Fermentations are encouraged, but they should be limited to perhaps only a few days per week at most.

In the next post l will bring up the issues with the raw vegan diet and fermentation, and how we can help solve many of these problems. It might make hard reading for some folks, but we need to get real. As much as it goes against my philosophies, l can clearly see why history shows mankind cooking some of their food and having some dairy, BUT…it doesn’t necessarily have to be that way imo. We can still pull the 100% raw vegan diet off imo, but we really need to have our whits about us if we are going to maximize our chances of success. Thankyou `powerlifter’ for exposing a big weakness in the diet regarding excess copper over zinc, it is a big problem that needs to be seriously looked at.

Next l will talk about the issues we face with some solutions towards overcoming some of the major problems. If you want to stay in fairyland and ignore the problems it is best to stop reading now.

The raw vegan is full of pitfalls and it is about time we made this known so we can fix many of the problems and increase the success rate. It's important we pull our heads out of the sand and stopped being filled with nonsense from many of the clueless raw food leaders, because they are not helping people succeed and thrive over the long term.

Next the good, bad and the ugly will be discussed....the stuff no raw vegan likes to talk about.

www.thesproutarian.com

l'll get back to those issues Storm, but first it is important to clearly show there is a problem with the raw vegan diet through good science and some common sense adding in. I am going to try and leave no stone unturned and will back up everything thoroughly so there is no doubt in people's minds that there is a problem. Hopefully this is going to be a major turning point for the movement when we can leave the old raw food nonsense taught by raw food leaders behind and move the diet forward into the 21st century where we greatly increase our chances of success. Like it or not, the raw food diet isn't working for many because we are not addressing all the issues.

I will not say that only one diet is the true way because that's not true, but there are certain things we need to be doing if we are raw vegan. And yes, eating FRESH food is critical, but what about all that energy used up trying to digest all those raw fiberous greens? And what about the anti-nutrients like tannins and phytic acid IP5 - 6's blocking zinc that leads to copper increases in the body, and the other nasty effects of tannins? And what about oxalic acid that locks with calcium in the acid environment of the stomach and is only 1 - 5% absorbable in the intestine? There are many many issues to be brought up, but we will get to that. Lots of solutions can be given. Will all the solutions be given?...no-one can say for sure, but we can use all the best information we have available today to try and fix all the problems we know of.

This is going to take some time to present the research. It needs to be done properly. l'll get back to this later, it could take weeks or a couple of months to present it right.

Full respect to Dr David Jubb, Dr Brian Clement, Dr Lawence Wilson and many scientists for their great research, we owe them so much.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2013 03:10AM by The Sproutarian Man.

lt's so good speaking with really knowledgable people because these big guns don't try to be know-it-alls, they clearly state the limits of their knowledge because everyone just wants to learn as much as they can. No ego's involved here, and no trying to be heros and give views without proper foundations. Everyone is careful not to make assumptions and run too much off at the mouth, but that is why they are good at what they do because they don't make assumptions.

Assumptions and ego are like quick sand, they are dumbing down tools that tempt the weak.

Coming out and admitting you know very little is the only way to move forward. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes and admitting being wrong, that's the only way we can learn and become better at what we do. None of us know very much about diet and nutrition...we are all babes in the woods, and the ones who realise that have some chance of moving beyond that point, but we still get many of these uneducated amateurs who think they are experts and become raw gurus, and THEY are the ones we have to watch out for, for they will sink you quicker than a stone falls through water.

I'll be the first to say...in terms of fermenting all your food, I GOT IT WRONG!!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2013 03:29AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Is there a specific brand of kelp that you recommend, specifically a kelp tablet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2013 03:58PM by HH.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there a specific brand of kelp that you
> recommend, specifically a kelp tablet?

Dr Lawrence Wilson recommends only a few manufacturers of Kelp and i have to agree with his choices, Natures Way is my favorite brand and Now Foods are also good.

Ive been using the Natures Way Kelp Capsules for years now and feel they are consistently top quality, they are also cheap compared to most other supplements.

Natures Way Kelp Capsules



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2013 04:03PM by powerlifter.

I just ordered kelp from iceland. Powdered.

Thank you!

Been doing lots of research into the human gastrointestinal tract, the structure and function of the gastrointestinal mucosa, and reading the science on the role of various bacterial strains like Lactobacillus plantarum 299v, Lactobacillus plantarum 299, Lactobacillus plantarum Heal9, Lactobacillus plantarum Heal19, Lactobacillus paracasei 8700:2, Lactobacillus rhamnosus 271.

The news is looking really really good, and it looks like probiotics effect the gastrointestinal mucosa in such a way that things like lectins, tannins and various anti nutrients will actually be broken down in areas such as the saliva, stomach and intestines.

I was initially concerned that probiotics only worked in the intestines and that nutrient binding with anti-nutrients would lock in the acid stomach environment and have very little absorption in the intestines, but this doesn't look to be the case at all.

I am truely delighted with what l have read because it looks like we can actually solve the copper - zinc ratio issues and do many things much better than in Wigmore's day.

From what l have read from the science studies it does look like probiotics are the greatest things ever created.

l'll post some good links another day...still got heaps to do, but it is looking really good. Dr Brian Clement has it all worked out, he has truely perfected the raw diet as good as it can be...he has solved the copper issue, he has solved the anti nutrient issue, and as a result people's blood tests incluing his own are coming up good because of things like digestive enzymes, various algaes and probiotics. Almost 100% sure now...Brian has the raw diet all stitched up. We can't fix the dissacharide sugars from hybridisation and digest them, but so be it.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 12:49AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Why do we need to detox, and why fruitarians also need to detox

We do need to do regular detox to reverse the effects of those runaway hybrid sugars, NO DOUBT!!! If you are eating all these bananas, mangos, legumes etc..feel your arms for acid crystals (small lumps under the skin) and pinch your skin hard - if a hard pinch to your skin hurts you are indeed loaded with acid chrystals accumulated from the effects of things like anti nutrients and runaway sugars from eating hybridised foods.

A raw food diet can only detox so much when hybridised foods are eaten. I am quite detoxed, but l still have acid chrystals under the skin.

www.thesproutarian.com

After a year using fermented foods,
I found them useful and not a major issue in my diet.
I do not use them every day but two or three times a week.
I had poor digestion for many years so I mostly ferment cabbage,
mung bean, beet, onions.
I use the liquid from my ferments and they really clean me up.
No other probiotic can do what they can move out.
I drink a lot green juices and wheatgrass so may be that compensate any side effects of the ferments.
So a lot of things are written but not verified in practice.
Many cultures in the history of the world have lived on fermented foods.
Food may have all the nutrients we need but it is of no use if it cannot be digested.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 03:04PM by CommonSenseRaw.

Exactly, ferments brought my digestion from poor to very good, l feel like a brand new man thanks for ferments. I can digest sprouted legumes with no gas or issue. No bloating or any other symptoms either.

The peer reviewed literature clearly states that probiotics are safe. The abundance of fermenatrion literature convinces me how good the ferments are, that's why so many people around the world get well using ferments.

Lou Corona has been doing fermented foods everyday for decades, he, like me, makes this one of the cornerstones of his diet program. When we do green juices and ferments we set ourselves up for wonderful things.

Lots of water and cysteine and on/off rotation of fermented foods helps keep aldehydes in check. It's interesting how Lou seems to be doing so well and managing with aldehydes and all the rest after eating ferments every day.

www.thesproutarian.com

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read TSM's posts sometimes.

He was for massive ferments then he was against it and now he is for it again. All in less than a year.

And each time he makes absolute, categorical statements on whatever his present belief on ferments(or anything really)is, only to retract to, sometimes, a completely opposite view.

tut tut

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And each time he makes absolute, categorical
> statements on whatever his present belief on
> ferments(or anything really)is, only to retract
> to, sometimes, a completely opposite view.
>
> tut tut

Are you still calling yourself dg, Doug Graham's conscience or have you bailed, too?

I have always been for ferments but l needed to ring the alarm bell for them to be consumed sparingly to keep people safe from possible aldehydes. Personally, l am happy for myself to have them everyday, but it doesn't mean l should go recommending to others that they do them everyday. What l personally do as experiments and what l recommend for other people may can sometimes be completely different...l have great duty of care and am extra conservative for what l advise others to do.

If l ruin my own health with extreme experiments (eg a 100% fermented diet) that is one thing, but l am not about to recommend those things and risk ruining anyone elses, NO WAY!!!

Once again, I have always been for ferments, but at one time there were alarm bells raised. Fortunately I was able to find solutions to the potential problems of fermentations (aldehydes) and now all is good.

Personally l did the best ever on a 100% fermented 100% high acid diet (no alkaline at all). A top doctor and a certain raw food superstar was amazed I was able to function mentally at all, but l was on fire.

Btw, ferments do seem to create AGE's, but there is no need to worry about this because we can impede the inflammatory condition by eating sprouted chia with coconut fat along with having the various high phytochemical greens and other foods to minimise oxidative stress. In actual fact, a recent 2014 paper published about 2 months ago strongly suggested the antioxidant phytochemicals in broccoli sprouts was able to reduce effects of AGE's.

See....the sproutarians can do lots of things with the diet because there are many built in saftey mechanisms in the diet to protect us. We can do ferments, we can do higher fats etc without consequences that most other diets would have. We have high anti inflammatory anti oxidative stress factors in abundance on the sproutarian diet. The diet l promote has been carefully created over thousands of hours of careful scientific research and now it is pretty much perfected and as good as it can get.

If l find any problems or weaknesses in the diet l promote people can always trust me to come out and specify it and trust l will be looking for solutions. That's the issue...lots of weaknesses are pointed out with high fruit diets and those promotors ignore the problems and don't try to find solutions, BUT...if l find problems with the diet l promote l will be looking for solutions,ie, l don't sweep things under the carpet like many raw food leaders do. Ignoring potential diet problems is NOT responsible raw food leadership, and it does not create trust either. It's time to bring raw food leadership into a new phase where it become respectable instead of dubious.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 09:47PM by The Sproutarian Man.

TSM-- "..but l am not about to recommend those things and risk ruining anyone elses, NO WAY!!!"



Oh TSM, mark my words. You will screw up some people's health before you're done. Oh yeah.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon 102 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > And each time he makes absolute, categorical
> > statements on whatever his present belief on
> > ferments(or anything really)is, only to retract
> > to, sometimes, a completely opposite view.
> >
> > tut tut
>
> Are you still calling yourself dg, Doug Graham's
> conscience or have you bailed, too?



What are you talking about?? Are you mentally challenged?

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TSM-- "..but l am not about to recommend those
> things and risk ruining anyone elses, NO WAY!!!"
>
>
>
> Oh TSM, mark my words. You will screw up some
> people's health before you're done. Oh yeah.

No, l always advise to limit fruit consumption and to "get on the sprouts".

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon 102 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TSM-- "..but l am not about to recommend those
> > things and risk ruining anyone elses, NO
> WAY!!!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh TSM, mark my words. You will screw up some
> > people's health before you're done. Oh yeah.
>
> No, l always advise to limit fruit consumption and
> to "get on the sprouts".



Ha Ha! Good comeback, TSM! I like.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anon 102 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > And each time he makes absolute, categorical
> > > statements on whatever his present belief on
> > > ferments(or anything really)is, only to
> retract
> > > to, sometimes, a completely opposite view.
> > >
> > > tut tut
> >
> > Are you still calling yourself dg, Doug
> Graham's
> > conscience or have you bailed, too?
>
>
>
> What are you talking about?? Are you mentally
> challenged?


Are you not fresh and just his twin?

I am your twin.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am your twin.

What a horrible thought, lol.

Like everything it depends on how the ferments is prepared.
Some have deadly viruses, some friendly bacteria.

How does one solve the copper zinc imbalance with raw food?
Do we need to supplement?