THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, with the claim that I'm censoring you.
>
> The only 'censoring" i'm doing is not really
> censoring. I'm of the Opinion that people can make
> up their own minds and make their own choices. It
> seems to me you imply or suggest people don't
> because it's 'unscientific', and we go around in
> circles about this. To people who come in here and
> take a glance at the thread they will say wow
> there is a conflict going on, when really there
> should not even be just because you repeatedly
> keep saying raw veganism is 'just a fad', because
> it's unscientific, etc. In reality you're
> suggesting the censorship of people's own freedom
> of choice.
>
> If this is the "opinion" your talking about that
> I'm trying to 'censor' then go ahead.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong. if I am, then so be it. But this
> is how I see it to the best of my understanding so
> far.

It is a fad, just like the paleo diet is a fad. These are all new age fad diet creations often less than 5-10 years old. 80/10/10 and such book is only 6 odd years old if im correct. Like i say they are fads, you haven't been eating this way your whole life.

Like me, you and everyone else who is here we have stumbled across the vegan diet then the raw vegan diet, then offshoots of the diet like 80/10/10, sproutarian, gabriel cousens rainbow diets, these are all relatively new creations im afraid.

Why should people not question there diet ? This is why the problems in the vegan diet, people are scared to speak up incase the bully squad take hold, its pathetic.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Coming from the guy who since hes been here what all of 3 months has done nothing but get aggressive with anyone who eats differently from him.

You can't even be civil to other raw vegans such as panchito or suez, so don't try to take the anti-vegan route.

Pathetic, once again.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, raw diet is a fad. That's your opinion right?

Yes and why does that bother you. Im free to have an opinion just as much as you are, unfortunately for you.

Do you want everyone to be a carbon clone copy of you praising the 100% raw diet making no exceptions at all ?

You can't even follow these diets yourself, so much so your changing to a new raw diet everyweek.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 01:41AM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Coming from the guy who since hes been here what
> all of 3 months has done nothing but get
> aggressive with anyone who eats differently from
> him.
>
> You can't even be civil to other raw vegans such
> as panchito or suez, so don't try to take the
> anti-vegan route.
>
> Pathetic, once again.


Great rebuttal, you definitely addressed the points in my response. What does my sign-up date have anything to do with anything in this discussion? The pathetic thing is your ad-hominem arguments and avoiding questioning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 01:36AM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great rebuttal, you definitely addressed the
> points in my response. What does my sign-up date
> have anything to do with anything in this
> discussion?

Whatever Jtrpindl all the best, ive tried to be civil and take part in your threads postively. Its not my fault if you can't handle hearing anything negative about the vegan diet.

Funny how you don't mind sproutarianman saying the exact same things that i do about copper imbalances, zinc, omega-3s, b12, homocysteine etc. But when its me, ohh well that should result in some aggressiveness of course lol.

once again avoiding the substance


>However if i was to do the same, you'd get upset.

depends. some food is better cooked.

>Your getting upset over this thread and i wasn't even the original article author lol. All i said in this thread is that the 80/10/10 and such wasn't scientifically verified.

doesn't matter to me.


>Hardly a good advertisement for raw vegans is it.

can you even make one post without using the word vegan? you're quite obsessed with it - do you want to be vegan?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Great rebuttal, you definitely addressed the
> > points in my response. What does my sign-up
> date
> > have anything to do with anything in this
> > discussion?
>
> Whatever Jtrpindl all the best, ive tried to be
> civil and take part in your threads postively. Its
> not my fault if you can't handle hearing anything
> negative about the vegan diet.
>
> Funny how you don't mind sproutarianman saying the
> exact same things that i do about copper
> imbalances, zinc, omega-3s, b12, homocysteine etc.
> But when its me, ohh well that should result in
> some aggressiveness of course lol.


Translation - "I don't know how to address the points because I know I'm wrong so I'll continue with the ad-hominem arguments and other useless, irrelevant information". There's a difference in acknowledging what many vegans suffer from (primarily due to ignorance) and calling the raw food diet a "fad diet" which is ultimately detrimental to health (misinformation). Do you have any logical response to my original message or are you admitting you're wrong?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can you even make one post without using the word
> vegan? you're quite obsessed with it - do you
> want to be vegan?

Quite frankly im beginning to hate the word vegan, because it is just a label for people like yourself to excuse there aggressive bullying behaviour.

You guys aren't vegan, veganism is about being loving and peaceful to all sentient beings regardless, you couldn't grasp this concept in a million years.

You guys can't even be civil to other raw vegans who eat more fat than you do or superfoods in your case fresh, so like i say your about as far away from being a true vegan as John Rose is with his constant aggressive stature.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 01:52AM by powerlifter.

Being attacked by powerliar is almost like being attacked by Stephen Barrett and Quackbusters - it’s almost a compliment!

John even just talking to you is a compliment to me. To be able to speak to such a master like yourself, im blessed everyday especially for free, i mean how much do you charge your clients for this privelege ?. and i get it all for free on here, amazing service.

After all your the first guy in the world to discover this "6 box system with 18 portals, 6 doorways, 8 wormholes and 4 gateways" in your own words.

This is of course how rationale health professionals talk these days. Yet you call other real doctors stupid.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 02:03AM by powerlifter.

I feel like Powerliar is getting paid to be on this forum. The guy spends inordinate hours here. Today alone he's clocking nearly 12 hrs and still going strong.

anon101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel like Powerliar is getting paid to be on
> this forum. The guy spends inordinate hours here.
> Today alone he's clocking nearly 12 hrs and still
> going strong.

Ironic considering you and John Rose have been on for comparable amounts of time.

this thread should obviously end.


>Quite frankly im beginning to hate the word vegan, because it is just a label for people like yourself to excuse there aggressive bullying behaviour.

yes, yes, I am a big bully! asking questions and asking people to support their statements.

>You guys aren't vegan, veganism is about being loving and peaceful to all sentient beings regardless, you couldn't grasp this concept in a million years.

see? you're the only vegan here!

>You guys can't even be civil to other raw vegans who eat more fat than you do or superfoods in your case fresh

right, as long as you get to define "civil" it's all good bro!

later

powerlifter,

By the way, unless John is using a web proxy, anon101 and John Rose have different IP addresses in different states.

powerlifter,

why don't you just post a document on your website discussing all your dietary concerns and experience and refer to it when needed?

And the verdict is--


The Anti-Raw Movement, of which Powerliar is an esteemed card-carrying member,

is both misinformed and deliberately deceitful.

Yes anon, the verdict is in and you are spot on, Powerliar is an esteemed card-carrying member of the Anti-Raw Movement, he is both misinformed and deliberately deceitful and when his back is up against the wall, all he can do is resort to calling us names and making up things to take the focus off of him.

It’s also obvious that Powerliar is PAID to be here, otherwise, WHY ELSE WOULD ANYONE SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON A WEBSITE WHEN THEY DON'T BELIEVE OR PRACTICE WHAT THAT WEBSITE PROMOTES?

When you wrote,

<<<I feel like Powerliar is getting paid to be on this forum. The guy spends inordinate hours here. Today alone he's clocking nearly 12 hrs and still going strong.>>>

Powerliar wrote back,

Ironic considering you and John Rose have been on for comparable amounts of time.

The obvious big difference between all of us and Powerliar is that all of us are here to support one another and Powerliar is here because he is PAID as an INTERNET SHILL TO DO SO. For a better understanding of WHY ANYONE WOULD SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON A WEBSITE WHEN THEY DON'T BELIEVE OR PRACTICE WHAT THAT WEBSITE PROMOTES, read “I Was a Paid Internet Shill” - [consciouslifenews.com] ”

Once again, Powerliar is an esteemed card-carrying member of the Anti-Raw Movement, he is both misinformed and deliberately deceitful and when his back is up against the wall, all he can do is resort to calling us names and making up things to take the focus off of him.

Yep, I totally agree, John. Powerliar will be clocking in soon at work which is on this web site. Unlike I who is truly at work now and won't be able to post any more for several hours.

This is how I see things.

The raw vegan lifestyle is more than just a diet, it goes beyond counting calories and nutrient ratios.

The raw vegan lifestyle is about eating the fresh fruits and veggies that you love, that your body loves and that love you back.

The raw vegan lifestyle is about eating fresh fruits and veggies while you are compassionate about the other beings, both animals and humans.

The raw vegan lifestyle must reflect the way you think, the way you feel, the way you live.

The raw vegan lifestyle is a source of joy, of peace, of happiness – they all can be found in simple things, like enjoying a sweet orange, making a colorful rainbow salad or watching a beautiful sunrise.

Life is so wonderful when you start focusing on what it is really important – finding your inner tranquility, being in tune with nature, listening to your body and feeding it with nourishing raw vegan food.

There is so much more to life than getting stuck into insignificant things.

You should never try to convince or force others to adopt the raw vegan lifestyle, nor you should try convince them that whatever diet they follow is not the right one.

You should live by the force of the example – you yourself can be a living proof of how great your lifestyle is.

If those who have eyes to see and ears to hear take a look at you and hear the good things that you have to say about your lifestyle, they will eventually take from it what they think it suits their own lifestyle.

People will choose the raw vegan lifestyle once they truly believe it suits their needs and they are ready to embrace it.

No one will ever try a new lifestyle if he is not ready or does not believe in it or does not like it (no matter how hard you preach that the respective lifestyle is the best).

You do not need to live the same lifestyle, you do not need to argue about your different lifestyle, you do not need to believe that your lifestyle is the best (even if it is a raw vegan lifestyle).

All you need to do is to let go of all the anger, all the insults, all the resentments, all the negative feelings, so that the world does not become a nightmare instead of a paradise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

I don't understand the name-calling?

Powerlifter made a statement that raw has not been scientifically proven - is that not correct?

Why can't he, you, and that other person (okay, I meant all of you) state your opinion, state it politely, and have polite discourse? It can be done.

I like reading all sides of the diet dilemma - after all, it is one of the primary reasons that this forum exists, correct?

There are room for all types of raw diets here.

But the insults and attacks - from all sides - really negative energy. It is very sad to read. Ugh.

>Powerlifter made a statement that raw has not been scientifically proven - is that not correct?

he has made dozens of statements like that - and when people ask him to support his statement he avoids or posts irrelevant, biased studies, etc.

and as someone has already said, what is the point of saying that it has not been scientifically proven?

bumblebees can't fly, right ? except that they're flying?

he's said it over and over - how many times does he need to say it on a RAW board?

we get it - he thinks that there are no omega 3s, even though there are, and no taurine, even though we make our own, etc

Fresh, these are really good questions in a movement where most of the "gurus" have admitted to not adhering to 100% raw.

And really, what is wrong with that? There may be a few 100% raw people on here, but I'm sure as hell not one of them.

What I do want are different points of view from people who have bettered their health through eating raw foods - and Powerlifter has stated he is raw too - what % is raw? Eating two meals of raw? Who has decided what makes a raw person raw? I see a bunch of omnivores who eat a hell of a lot healther than I do - my husband adheres to a Mediterranean Diet - and than most "raw gourmet" gurus do.

What makes any of us experts? You have listened to gurus who have lied to you from the beginning to further their cause and to plump up their bank account. Your experts/gurus aren't even raw. And it is refreshing to hear that - I would prefer even more honesty, but it doesn't appear that is going to happen. As long as the 100% raw party line survives (again not referring to anyone in particular) the means justify the end.

Has Powerlifter proven anything? I don't know - I will as you say read some of the past postings. Has the "100% raw fooders" proven anything? No, it's anectdotal - but I do believe you feel better, no doubt about it.

I like reading TSM's posts and his point of view makes me very interested in sprouts - I like the poetry of La Veronique - I like the post above me - I like Powerlifter's postings. I like your postings. There's plenty of room for discourse.

Frankly, it's hard to listen to some of the "expert's" point of view when they are hurling insults. It's really hard to hear people who have not established their diet by being here only 2-3 months hurling insults. I want to hear all sides, but it seems to me that insulting and bullying people (not referring to anyone in particular) does not help your (general "you" not you in particular) case either.

Both sides are insulting each other and both have proven nothing - I realize that the anonymity of the internet allows people to rage, just like the anonymity of a car. It's still hard to read.

I do not disagree at all.


I only ask that when making a statement that, when asked, it be supported to some extent, so that I can analyze for myself and perhaps offer another view. But when a person repeatedly states something, and no matter what the evidence or personal experience provided, still keeps putting forth that view - then that person is just propagating an unsupported bias - we do it often based on OUR experience and go out and GET justification. This happens to most of us - but again - as I have said, statements such as "where do they(vegan for example) get their omega 3" when it is quite firmly established by science and the usda nutrient search and lack of symptoms, that the omega -3's ARE available and digested and assimilated, and the person STILL keeps making the same statement - just for the purposes of trying to refute the Vegan diet, then it becomes rather tiresome. is that sentence long enough? later.

I think that asking for studies - from both sides - seems fair. Thank you, Fresh.

I really like hearing the success stories of people on this board and some people are so inspiring. The scientific studies are bonus for me.

>I think that asking for studies - from both sides - seems fair.

ok, but I was not referring to scientific studies - simply some logical or experiential evidence OR study or any other type of support. I think we're aware of how studies can be misinterpreted.

the thing is we can sit around all day and say that X nutrient is low on Y diet, but it's this general attitude of "raw diet is deficient" that is both not supportive of this board and not supported by experience and observing nature, and in many other ways. it's the cooked diet that is deficient or excessive, not raw.

If, as Powerliar said, the raw food diet is a fad and the Mediterranean Diet is the best then what do we do with this message board? Shut it down or change the name to support the Med Diet. Those are the options I see. How about Powerliar and his supporters answer that question.

If the Med diet is the best then we should start discussing what meats and animal products to start eating.

How about starting with his name: Powerlifter instead of Powerliar?

Why do that? I don't understand. No reason to resort to name-calling and bullying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 07:31PM by janetc.

Hey Fresh: I'm only speculating, but from what I read Powerlifter did try the raw food diet and it didn't work for him.

I understand that we are here to support people - I totally get that - but there are some people (novices and experts) that have failed to stay 100% raw. For whatever reason. I think we should have information from all sides, not only from the raw side.

Because I do think that he is trying to help. Just like I think you try to help people.

janetc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Fresh: I'm only speculating, but from what I
> read Powerlifter did try the raw food diet and it
> didn't work for him.
>
> I understand that we are here to support people -
> I totally get that - but there are some people
> (novices and experts) that have failed to stay
> 100% raw. For whatever reason. I think we should
> have information from all sides, not only from the
> raw side.
>
> Because I do think that he is trying to help.
> Just like I think you try to help people.


Haha he's trying to "help" by calling the raw food diet a "fad diet", continuously criticizing raw food proponents such as Brian Clement and Douglas Graham, and claiming anyone who's thriving on the diet is lying or secretly eating cooked foods?

I feel like he is trying to help. I don't think I am the only one who feels this either because apparently there were members that missed having him post. But even if I were the only one, I stand by what I wrote.

When you two talk health, and talk without insulting each other, it's so very interesting. I read a few threads where you both did this.

I don't know - I just feel like name-calling and bullying really detracts from the message.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 07:59PM by janetc.