[notesfromatuscanolivegrove.wordpress.com]
Notes from a Tuscan Olive Grove
Ripening: olives show their true colours

We are sometimes asked whether we grow green or black olives, as if the colours represented two different varieties rather the maturity of the fruit: every olive will turn from green to black as it ripens. When you spend as much time staring at olives as we do though, you start to appreciate the full spectrum of shades that an olive turns as it ripens in the sun. At harvest time, a single tree can have fruit in a variety of jewel-like tones: vibrant, acid green; blush pink; dusky mauve; rich, cherry red; glossy black.

...

Table olives are an entirely different story – most olives that appear black in tins or jars were actually picked when they were green, unripe and still firm enough to withstand industrial processing. They are then oxidised and treated with preservatives during the lye (caustic soda) curing process to ensure a dark, uniform colour. Ripe black olives which are naturally less bitter than unripe olives, are usually processed using more traditional methods, such as salt-curing, brining and dehydration. Most of our olives have now been milled and the precious oil extracted, but we have left a few on the trees to darken, which we will pick later for curing and eating as table olives.
[notesfromatuscanolivegrove.wordpress.com]

Peace and Love..........John

John, I have bought the raw Peruvian olives (I think they sun-dry them, as well as use salt) and they were divine. Haven't seen them at the great price I bought them for but I have found a great alternative from Trader Joe's. They are Kalamata olives and apppear to be cured in a vinegar solution. They are black but NOT the same as the canned black olives! I would never eat those again. These have a luscious, rich flavor that the canned ones don't have. No comparison. I am not sure how they could be really raw on the shelf, although I have been in a raw restaurant that sold the very expensive raw olives and they were in a jar, too, and on a shelf (not refrigerated). Interestingly, TJ's used to have salt-cured Greek olives that were uber salty and I don't see them anymore.

all commercial olives are cured with caustic soda (lye) because they are too hard and need to be chemically 'cooked' People that have worked in olives processing plants say that it is discusting and the place smells like @#$%&. Once you visit an olive processing plant, you'll never ever eat an olive again in your life. It is that bad

[bhranch.wordpress.com]





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 09:31PM by Panchito.

Panchito, thank you for bringing that up.

In the past I used to eat black olives, mostly light/diet ones, but then I switched to green olives. I liked them a lot, they were my fav, but then I stopped eating them because of salt content (I would get puffy eyes) and because of lye-curing (which absolutely terrifies me).

I have been craving green olives again these days, but now, after reading your post, the cravings just stopped.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Sorry but that is simply untrue. I just read the label of my kalamata olives and they said they were tree-ripened and then preserved in vinegar.

> then I stopped eating them because of salt content
> (I would get puffy eyes) ).


I think a lot of puffiness gets blamed on salt when it's due to something else. I take in an average of 2 t. Himalayan salt a day and have no swelling whatsoever.

Me,too. I eat salt and never get puffy eyes.

I read an article on olives around a decade ago and it said that there are three main methods of curing. The first method is lye curing or curing in potash; lye extracts the glucosides and other water soluble flavors from the fruit. After lye curing, flavor must be added in the form of salt brine or a marinade.

The second method of curing is water or brine curing. Cracking, crushing, or slitting the olives lets the water or brine penetrate the olive flesh and shortens the curing time.

The third method of curing is the dry cure, also called the oil or salt cure. Ripe olives are packed in an equal amount of salt and are left to sweat. This may take 4 to 6 weeks. The olives are then dipped in boiling water, dried, rubbed with olive oil, and stored with or without aromatics.

No types of salt are good for you because they are all rich in sodium chloride, which is exactly what table salt is. Also, the minerals in Himalayan salt and sea salt are inorganic and cannot be used by the body anyways. The sodium chloride content in Himalayan salt is over 95% (You can google multiple sources). It is basically table salt.

[www.hippocrateshealthlifestyle.com]

[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

[products.mercola.com]
"The 13 Amazing Health Benefits of Himalayan Crystal Salt, the Purest Salt on Earth"
(And Why You Want to Avoid Conventional Salt)
1-21-14

Amazing Health Benefits of Himalayan Salt
12:31 Minute Video
[www.youtube.com]

Salt is essential for life -- you cannot live without it. However, most people simply don't realize that there are enormous differences between the standard, refined table and cooking salt most of you are accustomed to using and natural health-promoting salt.

These differences can have a major impact on your staying healthy.
If you want your body to function properly, you need holistic salt complete with all-natural elements. Today's common table salt has nothing in common with natural salt.

Your table salt is actually 97.5% sodium chloride and 2.5% chemicals such as moisture absorbents, and iodine. Dried at over 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit, the excessive heat alters the natural chemical structure of the salt.

JR’s Notes: Himalayan Salt has 85% sodium chloride, no garbage chemicals in there and the remaining 15% has 84 different Trace Elements and Minerals that your body actually needs. However, it’s important to understand that Iodine is NOT added, it’s NOT a natural art of this type of Salt and since we have such a large exposure to Fluoride and Bromide in our Environment that impairs our Thyroid Functions, we’re going to want to have a regular source of Iodine, but ideally it should NOT come from Commercial Table Salt.

...

[products.mercola.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 03:40AM by John Rose.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [products.mercola.com]
> 20140121Z1_DNL_YRP_2&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=ema
> il&utm_content=yrp2&utm_campaign=20140121Z1&et_cid
> =DM38232&et_rid=405242931
> "The 13 Amazing Health Benefits of Himalayan
> Crystal Salt, the Purest Salt on Earth"
> (And Why You Want to Avoid Conventional Salt)
> 1-21-14
>
> Amazing Health Benefits of Himalayan Salt
> 12:31 Minute Video
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Salt is essential for life -- you cannot live
> without it. However, most people simply don't
> realize that there are enormous differences
> between the standard, refined table and cooking
> salt most of you are accustomed to using and
> natural health-promoting salt.
>
> These differences can have a major impact on your
> staying healthy.
> If you want your body to function properly, you
> need holistic salt complete with all-natural
> elements. Today's common table salt has nothing in
> common with natural salt.
>
> Your table salt is actually 97.5% sodium chloride
> and 2.5% chemicals such as moisture absorbents,
> and iodine. Dried at over 1,200 degrees
> Fahrenheit, the excessive heat alters the natural
> chemical structure of the salt.
>
> JR’s Notes: Himalayan Salt has 85% sodium
> chloride, no garbage chemicals in there and the
> remaining 15% has 84 different Trace Elements and
> Minerals that your body actually needs. However,
> it’s important to understand that Iodine is NOT
> added, it’s NOT a natural art of this type of
> Salt and since we have such a large exposure to
> Fluoride and Bromide in our Environment that
> impairs our Thyroid Functions, we’re going to
> want to have a regular source of Iodine, but
> ideally it should NOT come from Commercial Table
> Salt.
>
> ...
>
> [products.mercola.com]
> 20140121Z1_DNL_YRP_2&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=ema
> il&utm_content=yrp2&utm_campaign=20140121Z1&et_cid
> =DM38232&et_rid=405242931


It has nothing in common except for that it's 90-95% the exact same thing...

Organic sodium from plant-based foods is essential. Sea salt or Himalayan salt is not. Again, your body cannot use those remaining minerals because they are inorganic.

Regular source of iodine = sea vegetables



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 03:45AM by jtprindl.

Also, the minerals in Himalayan
> salt and sea salt are inorganic and cannot be used
> by the body anyways.

BS.

I guess it depends on one's body. All I know is that salt does me no good, I get swollen eyes and also I used to get swollen ankles from eating salty food.

Most of my life I tried to get away from salty foods, I even took a very large break from salt like for more than 10 years, and then when I tried something salty again like olives I immediately got swollen eyes and ankles.

I guess that the long period of time without any salt made me very sensitive to it.

Then, after switching to raw vegan lifestyle, my body got rid of any remaining salt and now I am even more sensitive to salty foods.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Ela2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess it depends on one's body. All I know is
> that salt does me no good, I get swollen eyes and
> also I used to get swollen ankles from eating
> salty food.
>
> Most of my life I tried to get away from salty
> foods, I even took a very large break from salt
> like for more than 10 years, and then when I tried
> something salty again like olives I immediately
> got swollen eyes and ankles.
>
> I guess that the long period of time without any
> salt made me very sensitive to it.
>
> Then, after switching to raw vegan lifestyle, my
> body got rid of any remaining salt and now I am
> even more sensitive to salty foods.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~

Well one thing is for sure if you are going to take in a lot of even high quality salt you must drink a lot of water or you will get as desiccated as a cured olive. I drink at least a gallon of water a day to keep everything moving and clean. When I was on a hclf raw diet I went without salt for 11 months and never missed it. I never craved salt I take it for my health. Salt, unlike sugar, is not addicting and is necessary for life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 01:28PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ela2013 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I guess it depends on one's body. All I know is
> > that salt does me no good, I get swollen eyes
> and
> > also I used to get swollen ankles from eating
> > salty food.
> >
> > Most of my life I tried to get away from salty
> > foods, I even took a very large break from salt
> > like for more than 10 years, and then when I
> tried
> > something salty again like olives I immediately
> > got swollen eyes and ankles.
> >
> > I guess that the long period of time without
> any
> > salt made me very sensitive to it.
> >
> > Then, after switching to raw vegan lifestyle,
> my
> > body got rid of any remaining salt and now I am
> > even more sensitive to salty foods.
> >
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > ~~~~~~
>
> Salt, unlike sugar,
> is not addicting and is necessary for life.


Except the salt you're consuming is harming you because the minerals are inorganic and therefore have zero health benefits.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ela2013 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I guess it depends on one's body. All I know
> is
> > > that salt does me no good, I get swollen eyes
> > and
> > > also I used to get swollen ankles from eating
> > > salty food.
> > >
> > > Most of my life I tried to get away from
> salty
> > > foods, I even took a very large break from
> salt
> > > like for more than 10 years, and then when I
> > tried
> > > something salty again like olives I
> immediately
> > > got swollen eyes and ankles.
> > >
> > > I guess that the long period of time without
> > any
> > > salt made me very sensitive to it.
> > >
> > > Then, after switching to raw vegan lifestyle,
> > my
> > > body got rid of any remaining salt and now I
> am
> > > even more sensitive to salty foods.
> > >
> > >
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >
> > >
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >
> > > ~~~~~~
> >
> > Salt, unlike sugar,
> > is not addicting and is necessary for life.
>
>
> Except the salt you're consuming is harming you
> because the minerals are inorganic and therefore
> have zero health benefits.

BS.

Here are some old Posts that some of y’all may enjoy reading - pay attention to “This salt is very special as it is still bound to phyto-plankton” from Tony.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Lighten Up Nora!
Author: Tony
Date: 01-25-03 00:01

You definitely identify with a group that would be classified as "you all" and I won't even dare to mention that name. You have done a great job of polarizing yourself from others, too late to turn back now and start regretting it. Just because you feel a certain comfort from having this all-encompassing system that has platitudes for everything and is hardly substantiated by any recent science, it does not mean you are justified in telling people they should feel guilty or that they are acting based on their "weaker selves". And it's so ridiculous that in all of this paranoia over toxins many more toxins are created--not just psychological/emotional ones--but also the insulin swings and fungus feeding super sweet, low nutrient fruit diets that are so devastating to many. Golly--bananas don't have any toxins--let me eat ten of them for a meal!! Fungus overgrowth from excess sugar produces mycotoxins and terrain problems far more serious than one would ever find in a bit of salt or wild herbs, so go figure. I am glad there are balanced long-term raw fooders like Gabriel Cousens who people can turn to for more accurate information in the midst of all of this attempted intellectual bullying by a select few. I respect everyone's right to pursue the truth as closely and as objectively as possible, but when they begin imposing their perception (sorry Nora, no absolute "truth" yet on salt) on others who aren't yet secure in their understanding and judging them so harshly, I feel the need to speak up. I look forward to your highly logical, objective and "perfectly combined" reply.

And we've had this debate a few times recently, as Ren mentioned. I have even heard--and will try to seek out more info on this--that the microalgae actually transform the minerals in the salt from inorganic to organic as plants do. Oh well, before I go and down a couple pints of sea water, here is an interesting piece of writing by David Jubb about celtic sea salt based on his experiments and live blood cell analysis of many people on this diet:

"This salt is very special as it is still bound to phyto-plankton, and whilst the salt crystal has remained moist, it can change into an acid or an alkali. This capability is called amphoteric.* Gene-enhancing isotopes exist within salt crystals that help correct and repair genetic error. Mineral within sun-dried salt can be biologically transmutated into any mineral needed. Salt crosses the barrier of both the cells membrane and also, the membrane within the cell surrounding the nucleus triggering a hormone-cell-homing mechanism that occurred more through pheromones in the air past and water in the past. Amino acids (the building blocks of protein) of the micro-algae of sun-dried sea salts are transported into the cell and nucleus of the cell by our own internal saline solution.

Seawater is an isotonic* fluid like blood serum. Natural crystallized sun-dried salt has reactive properties that act positively on the human organism. Cosmic rays ionize sea-water at depths than greater than a couple hundred feet and radio-active trace/macro elements well up causing organic and mineral nutrient-rich elements for the largest concentration of marine life to thrive. Pathogenic (disease state) bacteria are unable to survive in seawater. This property is only found in undenatured sea-salt and seawater.

Increasing cell salt and improving the body's bio-terrain by increasing the negative hydrogen ion and maintaining proper sodium plasma levels increases liver ATP. This helps clear waterlogged cells and helps re-hydrate cells that need hydration, while creating the necessary vacuum between the cells. A precise homeostasis of ions creating proper conductivity of the plasma and ectoplasm of the body occurs, and causes the cell to produce ATP rather than having to consume it.

Proper sodium level in the blood has an anti-adrenaline effect. Sodium is required for cells to absorb blood sugar and amino acids. Magnesium is involved in helping cleave molecules of protein, carbohydrate and fat. Sodium quiets the adrenals. Glucose, sodium and progesterone are factors that effect brain growth and respiration. Starch perpetually robs the chloride and sodium ions from the plasma, creating deficiency including blood volume and low hydrochloric acid."

Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Real Issue
Author: Tony
Date: 01-26-03 22:13

Bryan,

First of all I'd like to apologize to you and others who sympathize with Hygiene--I just get frustrated sometimes with lots of the dogma (from both sides) and kind of lashed out. I regret saying harsh things about anyone and hope to not do that again. As for the salt, the real issue seems to be even more fundamental than how you put it. It really seems like it has to do with whose opinion, whose research and whose perspective you trust more--that of Natural Hygiene and people like Doug Graham or that of people like David Wolfe, Gabriel Cousens, David Jubb, etc. Both sides have clearly done research and are very choosy about what they put into their bodies--I mean one guy won't touch oils, another won't touch bananas or dates, another would never eat a mono-sweet fruit meal and one guy doesn't even eat at all!! So as much as we want to be objective we are really stuck choosing between who we prefer--which involves more than just selecting and logically applying information.

And I guess for me, Natural Hygiene has always seemed like it is less free in its ability to experiment with an open mind on things because of the strength of its fundamental premises. There is tremendous authority in that system, which in some ways is good, but in other ways appears to make NH'rs seem close minded. Do you honestly think that with all that has been said against celtic salt or supplements that someone who identifies with NH can experiment and observe in an unbiased way? What if their body were to respond very positively (as Dr. Doug's did with B12) to something 'unnatural'--would they even be able to admit that this might possibly be healthy, given an individual's unique circumstances? I also think that many people feel their intelligence is being undermined when everything is explained away as stimulation or suppressing detox, as if they have no idea what’s going on in their own body!

Another fundamental issue relates to the medical paradigm that NH claims everyone (including most raw foodists) are victim to. I do see most of what the philosophy says and agree with most of it--the body is self-healing and symptoms are often the clearest signs of healing. It's rare that something needs to be "done" and more often something needs to "stop being done". But I feel those into NH have become so zealous in this that they have overstepped the application of this principle. Yes the body is self-healing and symptoms are signs that healing is in progress--but on the other hand the body has needs and its innate healing intelligence runs largely on the fulfillment of its nutritive needs. So there seems to be a fundamental disagreement about how much the body really needs in the way of nutrition and whether more is optimal.

To me, based on my experience, my studying, and those whose opinions I trust, it seems that generally the more nutrition the body gets vs. the amount of toxins it takes in determines the extent to which it can heal effectively. NH seems to assign a very high negative weight to toxins and a very low positive weight to nutrition and this doesn't sit well with me. I feel more comfortable assigning a high positive weight to nutrition and a lower negative weight to toxins (at least those in natural things). So to me taking in lots of wild greens or green juice or a supplement, while there might be something in there that is slightly disagreeable to my body, is well worth the trade off. As for salt, even if it could be proved that there are slight amounts of toxins in there, for me the nutrition present in it clearly outweighs any problems. The same goes for wild greens, green juices, etc. and it is not the same thing as the poison ivy analogy--let's be reasonable. That is why I almost always choose kale over romaine--the extra nutrition in kale is very much worth it being more difficult to digest. I had some dinosaur kale yesterday right off the plant and it was so amazing--more nutrition usually also appears to equal more taste in my experience.

So in the end I guess my conclusion is that I agree mostly with the fundamentals of NH (which are the principles of Nature, I agree), but I disagree with the emphasis. In a world where the nutrition in everything is rapidly declining and the need for it is rapidly increasing, I feel that certain things are worth the trade off. Also, it is not always so black and white--some things might have almost no toxins in them but still be very toxic to a person in a specific condition. If you feel that eating large meals of bananas is healthy and non-toxic to you then that is great--I will respect that--I just wish NHr's would respect other's right to drink green juice or consume celtic salt, knowing that it is worth the trade off to them. And it is not always about symptom suppression or stimulation--you will do much better with people if you gave them more credit to tell the difference--some of us understand the principles but emphasize "getting nutrition" more than "eliminating toxins". This especially true given that most people on this diet have given up 99% of the most toxic things out there. Anyway, I doubt we will come to an agreement but I just wanted to get my point of view out there so there is no more bickering and hostility. Again, I apologize for any harsh remarks and will do my best to respect all points of view no matter how much I disagree with how they are presented. Take care,

Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Salt?
Author: Bryan
Date: 01-27-03 18:09

Tony,

Thank you for your very well thought out message. I'm glad you understand the principles of Natural Hygiene, and though you may not agree with them always, you may find in the future that this knowledge may serve you yet. I'm glad to see that you have an open mind. This means that if you run into problems with your health in the future, you won't be so dogmatic as to not search out other solutions even if it means invalidating your current beliefs.

For me, I find it hard to believe that Nature (or God, if you will) got it wrong when setting up the conditions for life on this earth. It seems to me that humans and other animals did just fine for millions of year without having to worry about soil deficiency or MSM or eating salt (or eating cooked food for that matter). Most of our health issue arise from overconsumption of nutrients, vitamins, and minerals, rather than deficiencies. And when deficiencies occur, most often these are issues of absorption rather than deficiency.

In our hubris we humans believe we know better than Nature what is good for our bodies and our health. And we have sought to take from natural foods the specific nutrients that will heal all our ills and package it into convenient pills that we can buy at our favorite online raw shopping mall. Meanwhile, there are trillions of creatures out there quietly eating their natural foods, living happier lives than most of us raw foodists, and not giving a damn about the ultimate nutrition. We could learn a lot by observing nature and trying to follow her wisdom. And that is what Natural Hygiene is all about.

Bryan
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Salt?
Author: girl
Date: 01-28-03 01:05

Animals did fine for millions of years without soil deficiency BEFORE the dawn of agriculture! Agriculture is very very new to this planet. Things used to be wild.

Now everything is man- made. Including all that fruit Doug eats. It is all (Co-created by man!).

If you do eat only wild food then there isn't much worry about deficiencies. It is man in the first place who tainted his own food supply.

I think we also have this romantic vision of "wild" animals and what they eat and what kind of health they have. They are healthier then domesticated animals. But there lifespan is generally shorter due to there harsher survival circumstances. And there IS disease among wild animals. Even ones that eat 100% raw! We talk about the instincts of these animals but how many birds you see that gather around a plate of abandoned greasy french fries for a meal? I've seen them eat chicken too. Candy bars. Basically anything they can. They are opportunists.

And while NH'ers scream about the impurity and inorganic nature of "natural spring waters", the animals drink it all up. They don't complain about the "inorganic minerals" in it. Or in the salt or clay they eat.

While a human is in there kitchen with fancy equipment to boil and carefully distill all the minerals out of there water, the ducks outside my house drink generously the water that gathers into the curb on the street.

We are far more picky and "sterile" then the other animals...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks
Author: Tony
Date: 01-27-03 22:10

Bryan,

I am glad we could resolve our differences. I think we all have different visions of health--I think those who are idealistic and perhaps more strength/athletically inclined go toward Doug, those more into being 'hip' and flexible will with Dave, and those who are more spiritually focused might look more to Gabriel. So as I said, we are still taking some things on faith to an extent with all of the so called 'facts' that conflict. For me the research that Gabriel and David have revealed on the problems with a high-sweet fruit diet without supplements/superfoods/green juice COUPLED with my experience is enough for me to take what they say seriously. It's not that I totally discount everything Dr. Doug is saying or think he is not healthy, I just think that what he says applies to people with a very specific constitution.

Which brings me to another potential disagreement that I have with NH--that one size fits all. Yes we all have the same basic structure and the same basic needs as Shelton points out, but you'd have a hard time proving that everyone is just a bunch of waterfasts and mono-fruit meals away from the exact same processing and ideal diet. There's seems to be just too much evidence to the contrary and some people clearly do better burning fat than they do carbs. The runner I've mentioned before--Stu Mittleman--is an excellent example of this. He brakes down some amazing info about heart rate, the long-term efficiency of burning fat vs. sugar and again, I find it so hard to believe that if he had spent a year on a perfect Hygiene program that if he would have all of the sudden completely changed his tune and started eating like Dr. Doug for his races. It just seems far too unlikely. And the same thing with Gabriel. He has been raw nearly as long as Doug and is super in tune with his body--probably thousands of hours spent in yoga, meditation, chanting etc. plus the knowledge that living foods are best. For him to discover after all of this time that he does best on one piece of sweet fruit per day and a higher percentage of fat than I believe there is some merit to that. I refuse to believe that he is so corrupted and misinformed by the stranglehold of the medical paradigm that all of his research and guidelines are dismissable. And the same thing with David Wolfe or Jubb--they are all familier with NH and have water fasted, spent time on fruit only, no supplements, etc. yet they still find that in their experience and in their research that small amounts of celtic sea salt is healthy. For those that wish to wager these men are all kidding themselves and still just playing the stimulation game--its fine with me--but they are not odds I'd be willing to take. It seems just as likely to me (if not more) that massive amounts of sugar is stimulating and that Hygienists might be addicted to that.

Which brings us back to the sugar/fat thing. It's problematic to say that raw fats are like cooked fats but raw sugars are not. It would be quite easy to come up with studies on the problems with sugar, the insulin swings, hypoglycemia, candida etc. and indeed people like Gabriel has even done this with raw sugars. But in NH's defense--yes many people who've had problems with sugar (even fruit sugar) have not been down to 10% fat for an extended period. On the other hand, many of the people who have had trouble with fat have not been been on a very strict--low sugar, high-mineral greens, lots of non-sweet fruit, high fat raw diet. So we have to play fair if we are going to do the whole comparison thing and the same goes for animals.

If we are going to compare ourselves with animals we must go all they way. Animals eat wild food that is far higher in lifeforce and nutrition that we eat. Animals generally live in environments that are far lower in pollution, radiation and other forms of toxic stress. Animals will intuitively do things to supplement their diet--whether it is licking salt, going to calcium mines or even licking copper nails when their food is deficient in something they need. Animals will also eat clay, ingest certain foods outside their normal diet, rub insects or pungent oils on their skin etc.--they do not all just lay back and close their eyes like Dr. Bernarr recommends whenever symptoms arise. And the answers from Hygienists on this sort of behavior has been less than excellent--it’s always that they are doing so out of desperation, this type of behavior is the exception, what they eat might not be food for us. Even if this were true (it seems to be more common than just 'exception') it does not bode well for the NH idea that we should follow the principles under every circumstance all the time--animals clearly break that rule ALL THE TIME almost whenever their circumtances are not ideal. And moreover, we are living in LESS THAN IDEAL CONDITIONS (I'm just emphasizing, not yelling)-- so are we not justified in doing things that are not what we might normally do out in nature--like juicing greens or taking chewable antioxidants on an airplane? Probiotics is another perfect example--we get so much natural probiotic forces from eating wild food and unwashed garden food--how can we be against some people taking a probiotic when we are eating nothing but sterile supermarket/FM food? This 'deficiency' might be the greatest culprit in the fight against candida--not sugar or fat.

Which brings me to my final problem with doing anything according to a philosophy. As Ren mentioned, what happens when things change, what happens if what we are doing stops working or our circumstance radically change? I admire your perseverance and ability to let go of the DW approach that clearly was not working for--but that moment might come again someday with NH. It just seems that the more entrenched we get into eating a certain way, avoiding certain things, trying to duplicate a certain percentage--it becomes harder and harder to stay open to new things. As you graciously mentioned, I have spent some time studying and eating according to NH and might come back to that if I find I am not getting the results I desire. Most likely it will be when I am growing my own mineral rich food and eating lots of wild stuff (both DW cliches I apologize) and not living in the city. For now, what works for me is fueling my body with as much nutrition as possible, fasting occasionally to deal with the slight increase in toxins and putting the rest of my energy into other pursuits. Maybe I would have much more energy if I didn't feel the need to argue and intellectualy justify my habits and practices!! Oh well, thanks for the dialogue--I feel I am learning in this process.

Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Peace and Love..........John

Someone on here claimed that Herbert Shelton had Parkinson's during the last decade or so of his life. I have a couple of his books where he goes on an anti-salt rant and it's pretty strident. If it's true how he ended up, I am not sure I want to take his advice to the letter.

In any case, I use either Himalayan pink salt or the Celtic type that Trader Joe's and WF sells that is sun-dried and unrefined. Yes, it's sea salt but who cares?

I find that I need no salt. I do not crave it and I do not need it. If I feel I want a salty taste, I just use tomatoes or dill (I would use celery stalks but I do not like their taste).

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Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry but that is simply untrue. I just read the
> label of my kalamata olives and they said they
> were tree-ripened and then preserved in vinegar.

pickled food (vinegar brine) are associated with esophageal cancer. But I guess moderation would help

[en.wikipedia.org]

"The World Health Organization has listed pickled vegetables as a possible carcinogen, and the British Journal of Cancer released an online 2009 meta-analysis of research on pickles as increasing the risks of esophageal cancer."

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all commercial olives are cured with caustic soda
> (lye) because they are too hard and need to be
> chemically 'cooked' People that have worked in
> olives processing plants say that it is discusting
> and the place smells like @#$%&. Once you visit an
> olive processing plant, you'll never ever eat an
> olive again in your life. It is that bad
>
> [bhranch.wordpress.com]
>
> [bhranch.files.wordpress.com]
> g

God to know. All commercial olives are cooked !!!

Olive trees rock, they can grow on marginal land in dry climates and can last up to 1000 years! Let's get planting...

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > all commercial olives are cured with caustic
> soda
> > (lye) because they are too hard and need to be
> > chemically 'cooked' People that have worked in
> > olives processing plants say that it is
> discusting
> > and the place smells like @#$%&. Once you visit
> an
> > olive processing plant, you'll never ever eat
> an
> > olive again in your life. It is that bad
> >
> > [bhranch.wordpress.com]
> >
> >
> [bhranch.files.wordpress.com]
>
> > g
>
> God to know. All commercial olives are cooked !!!


Bull. I believe that about the ones in the can but NOT in the jar that are CURED with vinegar and sea salt. Not in the same league.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bull. I believe that about the ones in the can but
> NOT in the jar that are CURED with vinegar and sea
> salt. Not in the same league.

glass jars don't mean anything. Brine (sea salt, etc) does not mean much either because using caustic soda requires also brine (salt, vinegar, etc.) as last step for the flavor. If the bottle does not say that they did a non lye method, then most probably they did because of the economics, consistency, quality, etc. that lye offers (at the expense of maybe health). The consumer does not know the difference. Non lye olives are very hard to find at the supermarket and when you do, they are expensive.

Hey, I am not selling olives to anyone, nor am I encouraging anyone to buy olives. But, I am expressing how wholesome the raw dried olives taste from Essential living foods and the Raw Food World. Every December the Raw Food World has a 17% sale, so I stock up then. And every so often the other company has a sale, so I stock up also. I am not disputing what Panchito says, because I have never tried curing olives, but the company says that they don't use harsh chemicals. I was curious about the sundrying, so I tried them and I have to say they taste excellent. Once I ate these olives, I had no desire to eat another regular olive. Panchito, if you find these olives are tainted, please tell me.

This is what Essential living foods website says:

"Tree-ripened and cured in sea salt and spring water (unlike modern olives cured with harsh chemicals), these sun-dried beauties are hand-pitted for easy snacking.

Succulent black olives — pitted and sun-dried for easy snacking.
Sun-ripened and traditionally cured in sea salt and glacier spring water
Satisfying moist & chewy texture."

Foods suspended in liquid in jars have been cooked.

I have not tried the Essential Living olives. The Raw Food World ones I've tried were ghastly, IMO. I'll stick with stone ground olive oil if I want fresh olive taste and nutrition.

I will try the Essential living foods olive. I wish the had a 5 or 10 pounds size but I guess you have to buy multiple small size

They sound legit. If they say that in the bottle, it is most probably right. Thats the way they used to be done. Countries like Greece still make them that way but not Spain or Italy (not usually found). They have such a big demand that "traditionally cured" is not practical. With the traditional method (no lye), some olives may cook faster than others and they lose the consistency that consumers demand from a brand. But a mini bootle here costs like $7.

Conclusion; If the bottle says cured naturally, or without harsh chemicals, or in brine of vinegar and salt. They are probably OK. If they don't mention the word cured then it is assumed that it was from lye. Why? because naturally cured olives takes much longer and you have to do inspections, olives lose consistency, etc.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito, if you find these olives
> are tainted, please tell me.
>
> This is what Essential living foods website says:
>
> "Tree-ripened and cured in sea salt and spring
> water (unlike modern olives cured with harsh
> chemicals), these sun-dried beauties are
> hand-pitted for easy snacking.
>
> Succulent black olives — pitted and
> sun-dried for easy snacking.
> Sun-ripened and traditionally cured in sea
> salt and glacier spring water
> Satisfying moist & chewy texture."

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, I am not selling olives to anyone, nor am I
> encouraging anyone to buy olives. But, I am
> expressing how wholesome the raw dried olives
> taste from Essential living foods and the Raw Food
> World. Every December the Raw Food World has a
> 17% sale, so I stock up then. And every so often
> the other company has a sale, so I stock up also.
> I am not disputing what Panchito says, because I
> have never tried curing olives, but the company
> says that they don't use harsh chemicals. I was
> curious about the sundrying, so I tried them and I
> have to say they taste excellent. Once I ate
> these olives, I had no desire to eat another
> regular olive. Panchito, if you find these olives
> are tainted, please tell me.
>
> This is what Essential living foods website says:
>
> "Tree-ripened and cured in sea salt and spring
> water (unlike modern olives cured with harsh
> chemicals), these sun-dried beauties are
> hand-pitted for easy snacking.
>
> Succulent black olives — pitted and
> sun-dried for easy snacking.
> Sun-ripened and traditionally cured in sea
> salt and glacier spring water
> Satisfying moist & chewy texture."


Here's the link. Glad to see they are dry packed - which means they can really be raw.



At $40 a lb.I guess if you want to get a 10 lb. sampler you've got to be swimming in money you've saved by eating home grow sprouts for lunch and very confident you will like them.

[www.essentiallivingfoods.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 08:00PM by SueZ.

I do not see a link but at $40 a lb I would pass.
I can get all those missing nutrients from my barley grass and sprouts.
For fun I can eat some organic black grapes until cherries and blueberries are in season



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 08:03PM by RawPracticalist.