I think one of the most ridiculous notions by some in the raw food community is that all supplements and superfood powders are unhealthy or aren't beneficial. This is a lie and a lie that could be a detriment to those that are seeking alternative ways of healing. And the supplements I'm referring to are not to meet nutritional needs (B12 and D3 exceptions) but for further protection, wellness, and healing.

Some of the products I'm referring to are astaxanthin, pine pollen, chaga/reishi mushrooms, camu camu, tocotrienols, etc. To say these products aren't beneficial is delusional and in line with the outdated concepts of the natural hygiene diet. To be against superfood powders/certain supplements because we didn't use them back at times when we were foragers is like denying the use of cars because they didn't always exist. Are superfood powders/supplements an absolute necessity? No. Are they extremely beneficial? Yes. In a world where toxic poisons are EVERYWHERE, I'll take the added protection and benefits. You can "pubmed" the scientific literature.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2014 10:22PM by jtprindl.

I tell you what, show me some evidence that typical fruits and veggies do NOT provide these alleged benefits.

Some info on Astaxanthin:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[www.naturalnews.com] (Astaxanthin one of the most neuroprotective supplements yet discovered; fat-soluble carotenoids protect the nervous system, brain and eyes)

[www.naturalnews.com] (Astaxanthin naturally prevents sunburn)

[www.naturalnews.com] (Astaxanthin prevents heart disease, diabetes and Alzheimer's dementia)

[www.naturalnews.com] (Astaxanthin is Age and Disease Defying Miracle Nutrient from Microalgae)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 12:44AM by jtprindl.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tell you what, show me some evidence that
> typical fruits and veggies do NOT provide these
> alleged benefits.


What alleged benefits? Go study some of these superfoods instead of blindly following 80/10/10 by Douglas Graham.

I agree with you, jtprindl. I'm not into vitamin or mineral supplements, but I love the superfood powders and herbs and put three or four in my smoothie every day. I was taking chlorella for a long time, but decided to give it a break and see how I felt. I get them from ZNaturals, Shaman Shack, Jing Herbs, Essential Living Foods - RawFoodWorld has the best sales. I have Shapeshifter, barley grass juice powder, brazil nut powder, broccoli sprout powder, and green power blend powder. Also Guayusa, cat's claw, pau D'arco and Holy Basil Tulsi tea and a bunch of herbal extract powders. Maybe compared to juicy fruits and vegetables, they seem 'dead', but they contain a lot of concentrated nutrition and healing power in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 12:44AM by KidRaw.

now answer the second part of my question

>show me some evidence that
> typical fruits and veggies do NOT provide these
> alleged benefits.


any studies on pubmed showing no benefits?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> now answer the second part of my question
>
> >show me some evidence that
> > typical fruits and veggies do NOT provide these
>
> > alleged benefits.
>
>
> any studies on pubmed showing no benefits?


I'm not going to detail every single bit of research for you, that's not my job. Ignorance is a choice in today's society and if you want to deny benefits from superfoods because of what you read in one man's outdated book, that's your choice. Chaga and reishi mushrooms both contain immune-boosting and cancer-fighting properties not found in fruits and vegetables. Astaxanthin is 5000x more powerful than vitamin C. Camu camu powder contains way more vitamin C than anything you will find in a store (About 750% RDA in a teaspoon). The list goes on and on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 01:00AM by jtprindl.

>I'm not going to detail every single bit of research for you, that's not my job.

I didn't ask you to. I asked you to tell me what evidence there is that regular foods do not perform the same functions that are attributed to these superfoods.
I'm sure the manufacturers of superfoods pay for these studies to be done to support their sales, wouldn't you think?

> Chaga and reishi mushrooms both contain immune-boosting and cancer-fighting properties not found in fruits and vegetables.

my immune system apparently is not in need of boosting from what I can tell.
cancer is not something I fight, it's something I try to avoid by doing the right things.


> Astaxanthin is 5000x more powerful than vitamin C.

why do i need something 5000x as powerful?


> Camu camu powder contains way more vitamin C than anything you will find in a store (About 750% RDA in a teaspoon). The list goes on and on.

I suspect I get enough vitamin C

It's always more more more.

If you think you need it, eat your chaga mushrooms!
Not sure why you think you need to act like anyone who doesn't take superfoods is an idiot though.

Most supplements are dried powder.
Food should be high water content raw food.
Supplement can be useful but they should not be the main course

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I'm not going to detail every single bit of
> research for you, that's not my job.
>
> I didn't ask you to. I asked you to tell me what
> evidence there is that regular foods do not
> perform the same functions that are attributed to
> these superfoods.
> I'm sure the manufacturers of superfoods pay for
> these studies to be done to support their sales,
> wouldn't you think?

There is a lot of evidence, do the research. And why would I waste time providing more scientific evidence when all I'm going to get is an immature and illogical "well those were paid off by superfood manufacturers"?

"my immune system apparently is not in need of boosting from what I can tell.
cancer is not something I fight, it's something I try to avoid by doing the right things"

You essentially live on bananas and dates lol, your immune system could definitely do much better than that. Cancer is something you fight, because everyone in the world has cancer cells in their body and is being exposed to carcinogens on some level.

"why do i need something 5000x as powerful?"

Like I said before, is it a necessity? No. Are you going to be much healthier with it? Yes. Super foods are not just anti-cancer, they are anti-aging, brain-boosting, immune-boosting, anti-inflammatory, contain a huge variety of nutrition, etc.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most supplements are dried powder.
> Food should be high water content raw food.
> Supplement can be useful but they should not be
> the main course


Right, and if you're eating a lot of water-rich foods and take high-quality superfood powders, what's the problem?

That is not what most do, they think supplements are the food.
It takes work to eat the right high water content raw food. If you are into organic food, you get to find the store and go there regularly to get fresh food. If you are into sprouting it is even more difficult.

>There is a lot of evidence, do the research. And why would I waste time providing more scientific evidence when all I'm going to get is an immature and illogical "well those were paid off by superfood manufacturers"?

you don't think that sellers of these products ask scientists for studies?

I am not asking you for MORE evidence about superfoods.
I am asking if you have ever seen evidence that regular greens, and regular fruits DO NOT provide these benefits that you seek. A study does not mean ANYTHING on a particular item like spirulina, as I said, if the same effect can be shown for blueberries, or lettuce.

>You essentially live on bananas and dates lol, your immune system could definitely do much better than that.

You have some insight into my immune system? wow.
Are you even aware that it is date season?
I get fresh raw moist organic dates delivered from CA. Would you prefer that I stop eating dates to satisfy you? you might find that dates are quite full of nutrients.

>Cancer is something you fight, because everyone in the world has cancer cells in their body and is being exposed to carcinogens on some level.

and you feel that the body is helpless without superfoods, I do not
we can disagree.

>Like I said before, is it a necessity? No. Are you going to be much healthier with it? Yes.

If you say so.

>Super foods are not just anti-cancer, they are anti-aging, brain-boosting, immune-boosting, anti-inflammatory, contain a huge variety of nutrition, etc.

And regular foods are not/don't?

I didn't see your food log posted by the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 01:56AM by fresh.

"you don't think that sellers of these products ask scientists for studies?"

No, I don't think the abundance of scientific research done on a variety of superfoods are paid off by companies who want to sell those superfoods. Using your logic, why aren't you questioning the science on berries and other fruits for companies who sell these products?


"I am asking if you have ever seen evidence that regular greens, and regular fruits DO NOT provide these benefits that you seek. A study does not mean ANYTHING on a particular item like spirulina, as I said, if the same effect can be shown for blueberries, or lettuce."

You keep asking me the same question, and the answer is YES, do the research. By the way, what fruits and vegetables contain phycocyanin (since you brought up spirulina)? None.

"You have some insight into my immune system? wow.
Are you even aware that it is date season?
I get fresh raw moist organic dates delivered from CA. Would you prefer that I stop eating dates to satisfy you? you might find that dates are quite full of nutrients."

I do not care if you choose to consume dates to feed your sugar addiction, keep doing so if you so please. Dates are also loaded with a ridiculous amount of sugar, but that's another story. Despite what you may think, the body cannot take in unlimited amounts of sugar (even from fresh fruit) without consequences. Of course this would depend on how many dates you're actually eating.

"and you feel that the body is helpless without superfoods, I do not
we can disagree."

When did I say that? Did I not say multiple times already that you do not need them but they would be extremely beneficial? Your level of irritability and insults (and not just right now by the way, pretty much daily with powerlifter) points to something being wrong with your diet. Maybe the mood swings associated with the ups and downs from excess sugar?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 02:25AM by jtprindl.

>No, I don't think the abundance of scientific research done on a variety of superfoods are paid off by companies who want to sell those superfoods.

I just did a quick search and the first thing that came up was this. And there were many more that followed. There is quite a bit less money involved with studies on blueberries, if I must note that for you.

"The findings were first reported by a Spirulina producer, Earthrise Nutritionals, which helped sponsor the study."


>You keep asking me the same question, and the answer is YES, do the research.

I haven't seen any studies that I was asking about, just was wondering if you considered whether other foods do the same, hence making all foods superfoods.

>By the way, what fruits and vegetables contain phycocyanin (since you brought up spirulina)? None.


Not necessary for the effect shown, as stated in the study.


>feed your sugar addiction, keep doing so if you so please.

Am I actually speaking to Brian Clement? If so,, just say so!
Good to see you again brian! remember when we met in south florida?

Or are you Jameth Sheridan? Do you simply take on others viewpoints and meld them all into one and just accept them uncritically because they are "experienced"?


>Dates are also loaded with a ridiculous amount of sugar

yes, absolutely ridiculous!

>, but that's another story. Despite what you may think, the body cannot take in unlimited amounts of sugar (even from fresh fruit) without consequences.

am I eating unlimited amounts of sugar?


> Of course this would depend on how many dates you're actually eating.

oh, yes, here we are. It would depend on how many dates, wouldn't it?

how many times can you contradict yourself in one post?

why are you harassing me, by the way?

if you have not seen any studies showing that regular produce does not have those effects that you desire, JUST SAY SO, and stop trying to insult me.

>Your level of irritability and insults (and not just right now by the way, pretty much daily with powerlifter)


I don't recall any insults- perhaps you're taking something personally .


> points to something being wrong with your diet. Maybe the mood swings associated with the ups and downs from excess sugar?

yes, I am just a mess. please help me.
must be all that sugar. or the caffeine from all that coffee I'm not drinking.
ah, the condescension of youth.

"I just did a quick search and the first thing that came up was this. And there were many more that followed. There is quite a bit less money involved with studies on blueberries, if I must note that for you."

I don't know what bogus google search results you're referring to, but if you google "pubmed phycocyanin", you will find lots of scientific evidence. You can do this with many super foods. What's not necessary for the effect shown? You act like these super foods are sold at prices where only millionaires can afford them... they're not really that expensive. The research done on super foods and the phytochemicals and components within them is factual data.

"Am I actually speaking to Brian Clement? If so,, just say so!
Good to see you again brian! remember when we met in south florida?"

Am I speaking to Douglas Graham? How many institutes that heal thousands of people from chronic disease does Douglas Graham direct?

"why are you harassing me, by the way?

if you have not seen any studies showing that regular produce does not have those effects that you desire, JUST SAY SO, and stop trying to insult me."

I can tell you're mentally unstable due to the fact that you get into arguments on here daily, insulting people, and always resort to sarcasm to defend yourself. This is not an insult, this is fact. Also trying to divert the conversation by saying I'm "harassing" you. Pure comedy. I've already demonstrated that phycocyanin is not found in any fruits or vegetables. This is merely one example. I'm sorry Douglas Graham and his out-dated 80/10/10 book didn't get you that memo.

"I haven't seen any studies that I was asking about, just was wondering if you considered whether other foods do the same, hence making all foods superfoods"

That's unfortunate. Ignorance is bliss.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 03:07AM by jtprindl.

actually anyone who disagrees with you is probably mentally unstable, right?

spirulina just as one example is 10x the price of regular greens. who said anything about being a millionaire?

no matter how many times we go back and forth, for some reason you keep telling me there are studies about something or other when you can't understand that's not what i was asking.

>I don't know what bogus google search results you're referring to


what we were discussing was corporate sponsorship , so I did a search and the very first results showed corporate sponsorship of studies, one of which i posted. which is confusing because you said that is not the case.

have a good evening. Back to my intravenous glucose drip.

I'm not even sure of how many forms of ESP you seem to have, remote viewing, mind reading, internal body scans, quite a few. very impressive. ouch, sarcasm.. how horrible!

4 oz of chaga online for $40 . cheap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 03:45AM by fresh.

"actually anyone who disagrees with you is probably mentally unstable, right?"

1.) Those clearly weren't the reasons I stated.
2.) There is no disagreement, you're just flat-out wrong and delusional.

"spirulina just as one example is 10x the price of regular greens. who said anything about being a millionaire?"

Spirulina isn't a green, it's an algae. Other than sprouts, there aren't any vegetables that compete with spirulina on a nutritional level. Especially when compared to store-bought vegetables, which are not fresh (weeks old) and depleted in nutrients. Again, where can I find phycocyanin in fruits or vegetables?

"4 oz of chaga online for $40 . cheap."

If you did the scientific research, you'd know why chaga is priced the way it is. Just because you are either unwilling or simply cannot afford to pay for them doesn't mean that super foods are a scam and that all the scientific evidence is paid off by someone. It's actually quite comical. I wouldn't expect such immaturity from someone who's apparently much older than myself based on your "ah, the condescension of youth" comment. All you did was cherry-pick some random inferior study and claim that's the case with every scientific study regarding super foods.

Not much else to say here, you can blindly follow Douglas Graham and his out-dated views of an optimal diet while denying clear and abundant scientific data if you'd like and eat dates and bananas all day thinking that's healthy. Sarcasm to divert the conversation and blurting out things you read in 80/10/10 is your style, and that's cool. As I said, ignorance is bliss.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 04:03AM by jtprindl.

Sometime last year I bought, for the first time, spirulina, chlorella, raw protein powder, maca powder, and a bottle of that green stuff from Jameth Sheridan(can't remember the name and don't feel like getting up to look at the bottle).

I used them religiously for a while and didn't see any benefits. Now I'm using up what's left sporadically and never ever buying back them anymore.

STUDY:
[www.naturalnews.com]

Now can you think of any foods that contain calcium?
any fruits or vegetables?

So is spirulina is the only recourse for copper toxicity?

Just ONE example, found in 10 seconds.

I am not going to research each and every alleged superfood for alternative studies - but just maybe they are there...

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STUDY:
> [www.naturalnews.com]
> oxicity_mineral_deficiency.html
>
> Now can you think of any foods that contain
> calcium?
> any fruits or vegetables?
>
> So is spirulina is the only recourse for copper
> toxicity?
>
> Just ONE example, found in 10 seconds.
>
> I am not going to research each and every alleged
> superfood for alternative studies - but just maybe
> they are there...


Literally had nothing to do with what I posted.

>If you did the scientific research, you'd know why chaga is priced the way it is.

you said it wasn't that expensive! and it is! and now you divert into other explanations.. this is from the powerlifter playbook - awesome!


>I wouldn't expect such immaturity from someone who's apparently much older than myself based on your "ah, the condescension of youth" comment.

usually what I find is that when someone has been labeled in some way, they come back at others with that same label, hence your meaningless, baseless "immaturity" label, that you apparently think has some sort of effect on me.



> All you did was cherry-pick some random inferior study and claim that's the case with every scientific study regarding super foods.

I didn't cherry pick anything - the point was that there were many others - that was just one that came up. not sure why you can't accept anything contrary to your superfood religion.

>Literally had nothing to do with what I posted.

so what?

What it had to do with is that
1. spirulina was shown in a study posted here to reduce copper toxicity
2. the study I posted showed that CALCIUM does the same

so this proves EXACTLY what i am talking about.

And the funny thing is that if I found alternative foods that did the same thing as all of the superfoods that YOU LISTED, then you would come up with some other rationalization. which means that you have no interest in considering something other than what you currently believe.

"you said it wasn't that expensive! and it is! and now you divert into other explanations.. this is from the powerlifter playbook - awesome!"

Some super foods are expensive, some are not at all. Anyways, this does nothing to discredit the scientific literature regarding chaga, or any other super food.

"usually what I find is that when someone has been labeled in some way, they come back at others with that same label, hence your meaningless, baseless "immaturity" label, that you apparently think has some sort of effect on me."

Again, just like with you eating dates, I don't care about the "effect" what I said had on you. It's fact, it's not up for debate. Claiming all scientific evidence of super foods is research paid off by manufacturer companies IS immature, ignorant, and uneducated.

"I didn't cherry pick anything - the point was that there were many others - that was just one that came up. not sure why you can't accept anything contrary to your superfood religion."

Accept what exactly? That you can't afford super foods (based on your "variety limited by $" comment in your other thread) so that means the loads of scientific literature is corrupt? If that makes you feel better about yourself, by all means...

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Literally had nothing to do with what I posted.
>
> so what?
>
> What it had to do with is that
> 1. spirulina was shown in a study posted here to
> reduce copper toxicity
> 2. the study I posted showed that CALCIUM does the
> same
>
> so this proves EXACTLY what i am talking about.
>
> And the funny thing is that if I found alternative
> foods that did the same thing as all of the
> superfoods that YOU LISTED, then you would come up
> with some other rationalization. which means that
> you have no interest in considering something
> other than what you currently believe.


You're really off in your own world, making baseless and irrelevant assumptions. Lay off the dates and bananas! When did I say that every benefit of every super food is limited to that particular super food? Where can I find phycocyanin in fruits and vegetables (since were on the topic of spirulina)? What other 'regular' foods besides goji berries stimulate the secretion of HGH or have the nutrient-density found in goji berries? A lot of these super foods are fruits, so I don't even know why you have such a tough time accepting this reality.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 04:39AM by jtprindl.

> Anyways, this does nothing to discredit the scientific literature regarding chaga, or any other super food.

no , but only because I haven't directed any energy to it yet.

>It's fact, it's not up for debate.

what is a fact? I have no idea what you're talking about.

> Claiming all scientific evidence of super foods is research paid off by manufacturer companies IS immature, ignorant, and uneducated.

Did I say ALL? so you can take back your absurd comment above. I accept your apology in advance.


>Accept what exactly?

an indication that maybe there is some truth to my statement that the studies are sponsored by the suppliers? what, do I need to give you a research paper on every superfood and the suppliers and all studies?


>That you can't afford super foods (based on your "variety limited by $" comment in your other thread) so that means the loads of scientific literature is corrupt?

has nothing to do with it.

"has nothing to do with it."

Sure, buddy. That's why you're complaining about the prices and claiming that the scientific evidence is paid-off so the manufacturer's can charge more, right? (rhetorical question)

"no , but only because I haven't directed any energy to it yet."

Right, that's GOTTA be it. You can't discredit the evidence because there's way too much of it from a variety of different sources for all types of super foods.

"Did I say ALL? so you can take back your absurd comment above. I accept your apology in advance."

That's been the implication considering your stance on super foods, yes.

"an indication that maybe there is some truth to my statement that the studies are sponsored by the suppliers? what, do I need to give you a research paper on every superfood and the suppliers and all studies?"

Sure, there may be some random bogus studies done on super foods sponsored by suppliers, but that does nothing to discredit the real scientific evidence done by credible sources who have no affiliations. Or wait, let me guess, they do but they're just "low-key" about it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 04:49AM by jtprindl.

One problem with superfood is that in most cases it is not local.
That goes against the natural local self sufficiency requirement.
Most societies would perish if they had to wait for goji berries to arrive from tibet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 10:25AM by CommonSenseRaw.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One problem with superfood is that in most cases
> it is not local.

One thing we are lucky in these days is that the wheel has been invented and we don't have to migrate further on foot than from parking lots to grocery stores to find food if we need food that doesn't grow well in our area or garden.


> That goes against the natural local self
> sufficiency requirement.


Boy oh boy I thought my homeowner association was crazy but yours takes the top prize in crazy. How do they get people to agree to that requirement?


> Most societies would perish if they had to wait
> for goji berries to arrive from tibet.

BTW, since goji berries has come up they are, surprisingly, in the nightshade family. Just a heads up for the many others like me who are better off avoiding nightshade plants

predatory marketing of supplements mix scientific quotes with ambiguations and semantics

2:17 min video

[nutritionfacts.org]