CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The stress theory is overblown.
> Stress is necessary to life.
> Look at the animals in the wild.
> They are all healthy
> Even though they face constant stress.
> They can be eaten alive anytime...
>
> But we humans
> We have all social safety nets to survive
> On welfare, medicaid, social housing.
> And we have stress?
> Let's just say we are sick
> from all the bad food we eat.
> The chemicals we drink.


When I am healthy I can fight stress better.
But if I have less stress I will be healthy no matter what I eat???



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 03:12PM by RawPracticalist.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've noticed that those in public view who
> appear
> > to be the most successful 811ers with some age
> to
> > them seem to be well off already, or at least
> > second generation wealthy, when they started,
> > and/or single without family in the vicinity to
> > care for. It would be interesting to know if
> the
> > nonpublic successful 811ers are in similar
> > situations.
>
> Who are the supposed successful public 100% raw
> 80/10/10ers out of interest ?
>
> I can't think of any of the youtube personalities
> outwith Kristina/Fully Raw who still claims to be
> 100% raw. Doug Graham aside as he isn't a
> trustworthy example.
>
> Durianrider, Freelea, Swazye, Chris Randell, Megan
> Elizabeth, Dan The Man i.e the prominent 80/10/10
> personalities all now eat some level of cooked
> food, higher fat or non-80/10/10 foods to the best
> of my knowledge.

EXACTLY,LOL!


Kristinafullyraw and maybe the sapphire moguls that put on the Woodstock Fruit Festival

..."Doug Graham aside as he isn't a trustworthy example. "
Doug Graham is the example

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..."Doug Graham aside as he isn't a trustworthy
> example. "
> Doug Graham is the example


That's the problem.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..."Doug Graham aside as he isn't a trustworthy
> example. "
> Doug Graham is the example

Can i ask what is appealing about Doug to you ?. I just can't see it myself. I mean to me he just looks like any other 60 year old man, there are many SAD eating popstars and actors/actresses which look far more attractive visually, his fitness levels are average or below average from what ive seen.

He has aged pretty terribly in the past 10 years aswell. Think back to the David Wolfe, Clement debate video, he looked fairly healthy with a decent head of curly hair. Now his hair is thinned, coarse and very dry, which can be signs of low essential fatty acids, iodine deficiency and thyroid issues. I suspect he wasn't eating fully vegan back when he first came on the scene, look at him now, the most rapid aging i have seen in anyone, let alone a health educator.

His fitness levels are also below average to anyone who trains seriously. Doug admits that he's never delved into functional strength training before. So i have doubts of all these un-named professional athletes hes claimed to have coached, if he doesn't have any clue about functional strength training, which is a fundamental aspect of any athletes conditioning program.

From what ive seen he can do a few bodyweight squats, wider stance push ups and some L-sit gymnastic movements, which like i say are the very basic bodyweight conditioning exercises.

He has gone from this to this in under 10 years. The only answer for such rapid aging has to be from his deficient raw vegan diet, as he looked to have a decent genetic base to start from and appeared to be healthy in the past. Im still very interested in what has caused his swollen salivary glands which he often suffers from, being that he claims that physical causes such as stone or infection were ruled out. Likely caused by severe nutrient deficiencies because he doesn't even supplement with vitamin B12 like other vegans do, or so he claims not to, which can be a cause of enlarged parotid glands.







Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 04:26PM by powerlifter.

If anything, he's another example of why the Natural Hygiene diet is a failure and over the long-term produces similar results to the SAD. That's not to say Douglas Graham hasn't contributed to the raw food society, but people get so obsessed with the Natural Hygiene diet to the point where it's almost like a cult. They don't want to give up their addiction, massive quantities of sugar.

I can't bear to read Doug Grahams vegsource forum, the amount of downright dangerous information is just silly.

[www.vegsource.com]

Alot of people seem to be asking the questions from here though i.e where do you get iodine, fasting with severe adrenal fatigue, how to test for b12. His answers show how inept and unqualified he is in this area.

Someone asking what the best test is for checking vitamin B12 levels.(has to be the worst answer ive heard from anyone on how to test B12 levels)

"I think the most reliable test is to take B12 supplements for a few days. If you feel magnificently better, you needed the B12. If you don't, you didn't. " - Doug Graham

Even some of the posters on his site for that thread know more about Vitamin B12/MMA testing than he does.

Here is someone asking where 80/10/10ers obtain iodine recently.

"Most plants contain iodine if they are grown in soil that has iodine. Most soils contain iodine." - Doug Graham

The soil may contain a very small trace amount of iodine, but most land plant sources contain little to no iodine at all, even grown in high quality soil. Certainly not enough to obtain adequate amounts of this very important mineral.

Recommending people with severe adrenal insufficiency to undertake prolonged water fasts. He says water fasting stabilizes blood sugar levels lol, it might for a healthy individual possibly but someone with adrenal insufficiency and low cortisol who typically has hypoglycemia and poor blood sugar regulation, it would most likely be very dangerous.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 06:03PM by powerlifter.

this end it up being another Powerlifer hate thread feeding the sprout/high-fat choir. ja ja hope people learn to see who writes what

More fearmongering from powerlifter. he knows about the b12 testing. Nothing wrong with spending 10 instead of 100 if one has symptoms. I have not done seaweed and no iodine def. Organs tend to heal on fasts. Not that I recommend fasts.
spare me your refutations post and your lols its a waste of time



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 06:22PM by fresh.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this end it up being another Powerlifer hate
> thread feeding the sprout/high-fat choir. ja ja
> hope people learn to see who writes what


By the way, Panchito, do you know any successful long term raw vegan 811ers who are not

A. rich, or second generation rich, or retired

And/or

B. are single without the many responsibilities of taking care of family members of various ages with various needs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 06:39PM by SueZ.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More fearmongering from powerlifter. he knows
> about the b12 testing. Nothing wrong with spending
> 10 instead of 100 if one has symptoms. I have not
> done seaweed and no iodine def. Organs tend to
> heal on fasts. Not that I recommend fasts.
> spare me your refutations post and your lols its a
> waste of time


By the way, Fresh, do you know any successful long term raw vegan 811ers who are not

A. rich, or second generation rich, or retired

And/or

B. are single without the many responsibilities of taking care of family members of various ages with various needs

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are not there any issues for taking juices for
> such a long period of time?
> What king of juices?
> Some juices like carrots may not lead to optimal
> health in the long run.

I doubt you will get an answer from the 811's but yes one major issue with fruit juices is glycation which causes premature aging. Internally and externally it fuses everything together.

I reject your premise, and I can can only speak for myself anyway. I am only 99% raw 99% vegan 30 years. So I cant help you. Requiring 100% to prove something is not interesting to me. Enjoying life is more interesting to me.

Questioning and critiquing poor advice is not hating.

Its ok for you guys to question the high fat raw folks or the sproutarians, paleo dieters etc.

But no one shall dare question 80/10/10 or Doug Graham.

Severe B12 deficiency can take weeks/months to respond to oral supplementation for some individuals, so if someone was to abandon after a few days because they didn't feel any change then it could potentially be very dangerous advice. Also he obviously doesn't know about reliable B12 testing such as the MMA test or he would have recommended it wouldn't he ?.

In his words the most reliable way to test for vitamin b12 is to just supplement for a few days lol, like i say it can take some individuals weeks - months to increase there levels of B12 to feel improvement once deficient. Not to mention that you might not even be deficient in the first place and could have a completely different issue going on so its a very crude/stupid method of testing b12 levels. Blood work and mma tests will remain the most reliable method for diagnosing B12 if deficient or low.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 07:06PM by powerlifter.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RawPracticalist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are not there any issues for taking juices for
> > such a long period of time?
> > What king of juices?
> > Some juices like carrots may not lead to
> optimal
> > health in the long run.
>
> I doubt you will get an answer from the 811's
> but yes one major issue with fruit juices is
> glycation which causes premature aging. Internally
> and externally it fuses everything together.

Sue

how in the world are you going to show that glycation caused something?
u got a glycation test strip?
tell me exactly the food groups you ate during your raw high fruit glycation disaster diet...

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I reject your premise, and I can can only speak
> for myself anyway. I am only 99% raw 99% vegan 30
> years. So I cant help you. Requiring 100% to prove
> something is not interesting to me. Enjoying life
> is more interesting to me.


Who are you talking to in this post?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tell me exactly the food groups you ate during
> your raw high fruit glycation disaster diet...


I already have on an earlier thread. Don't you remember?

I already showed before the study that measures the gyclation end products of foods. Fats are the HIGHEST. Sugars (and carbs) the LOWEST. It is measurable! So if you are doing a high fat diet to avoid glycation you are blindly taking the WRONG direction.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already showed before the study that measures
> the gyclation end products of foods. Fats are the
> HIGHEST. Sugars (and carbs) the LOWEST. It is
> measurable! So if you are doing a high fat diet to
> avoid glycation you are blindly taking the WRONG
> direction.


Lol. You believe whatever you want to, Panchito. You've got the facts turned upside down and screwed around and I'm done with talking about you on this subject. I'm tired of the silliness.

I was responding to your long termers question and I dont remember what u ate during that time

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't bear to read Doug Grahams vegsource forum,
> the amount of downright dangerous information is
> just silly.
>
> [www.vegsource.com]
>
> Alot of people seem to be asking the questions
> from here though i.e where do you get iodine,
> fasting with severe adrenal fatigue, how to test
> for b12. His answers show how inept and
> unqualified he is in this area.
>
> Someone asking what the best test is for checking
> vitamin B12 levels.(has to be the worst answer ive
> heard from anyone on how to test B12 levels)
>
> "I think the most reliable test is to take B12
> supplements for a few days. If you feel
> magnificently better, you needed the B12. If you
> don't, you didn't. " - Doug Graham


Now that is just plain irresponsible.


>
> Here is someone asking where 80/10/10ers obtain
> iodine recently.
>
> "Most plants contain iodine if they are grown in
> soil that has iodine. Most soils contain iodine."
> - Doug Graham



So is he simply ignorant or is he stupid? This is a serious question. I watched one of his videos and he was telling an audience that in ancient times people didn't use olive oil for food they used it to light their lamps. Not one person challenged this. It was pretty scary.

I think a lot of raw foodists, including "gurus" or "experts" consistently regurgitate information without actually looking into it themselves. They search for answers to issues like iodine with confirmation bias because they have cognitive dissonance and it's hard for them to accept that the Natural Hygiene diet just isn't the answer to anything and everything. I bet Douglas Graham has been approached with the iodine question many times but he continues to believe it's not an issue because he disregards all of the evidence and sticks with the outdated, false information he learned god knows when. Ego and cognitive dissonance, a deadly combination.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I already showed before the study that measures
> > the gyclation end products of foods. Fats are
> the
> > HIGHEST. Sugars (and carbs) the LOWEST. It is
> > measurable! So if you are doing a high fat diet
> to
> > avoid glycation you are blindly taking the WRONG
>
> > direction.
>
>
> Lol. You believe whatever you want to, Panchito.
> You've got the facts turned upside down and
> screwed around and I'm done with talking about you
> on this subject. I'm tired of the silliness.

Here is the stupid silliness. Do you have any studies to the contrary or do you base your "knowledge" in silliness?

(numbers = AGE kU/100 g)

Oil, olive 11,900
Oil, sesame (Asian Gourmet) 21,680

compare it with:

Apple, Macintosh 13
Banana 9
Cantaloupe 20
Dates, Sun-Maid California 60
Carrots, canned 10

Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a
Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet

[marshfieldceliac.weebly.com]

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was responding to your long termers question

Just for clarity I'm including that inquiry here, I didn't have a premise I had a legitimate and pertinent question, which was...

"By the way, Fresh, do you know any successful long term raw vegan 811ers who are not

A. rich, or second generation rich, or retired

And/or

B. are single without the many responsibilities of taking care of family members of various ages with various needs"



I'm not trying to put you and panchito, who I also asked this question of, on the spot with your own personal lives which is none of my business. Panchito steams veggies and I don't care if you are 99% or 100% raw.

I'm asking of you two, if in your raw vegan circles, online and off, (of which I have none except what I access online), there are any people you know of who have been successful on 811 long term who do not fit my A. and/or B.question? That's all. I'm not asking for names of people I'm just asking for honesty.


>and
> I dont remember what u ate during that time

Well I remember spending the time typing it out for you. I'm sorry you can't remember and are asking again but it is still in writing in some thread or other.

SueZ said>I'm asking of you two, if in your raw vegan circles, online and off, (of which I have none except what I access online), there are any people you know of who have been successful on 811 long term who do not fit my A. and/or B.question? That's all. I'm not asking for names of people I'm just asking for honesty.


I don't know and I reject the premise because I don't think it proves anything and because there is no way to know about other people.


>I'm sorry you can't remember and are asking again but it is still in writing in some thread or other.

I'll look in my SueZ file then - you're gonna be in trouble now! ;-)

or you could save me some time....

did you overeat 30bad style
did you eat
fruit
nuts
seeds
veggies
oils
seeds
avocadoes
salt
other spices
anything else, fermented,probiotics, etc

just a checkmark on each couldn't be too hard.

again my point is how you know glycation caused something or other.
I presume by your nonanswer that you just assume.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Panchito Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I already showed before the study that
> > measures
> > > > the gyclation end products of foods. Fats
> are
> > > the
> > > > HIGHEST. Sugars (and carbs) the LOWEST. It
> is
> > > > measurable! So if you are doing a high fat
> > diet
> > > to
> > > > avoid glycation you are blindly taking the
> > WRONG
> > >
> > > > direction.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lol. You believe whatever you want to,
> > Panchito.
> > > You've got the facts turned upside down and
> > > screwed around and I'm done with talking
> about
> > you
> > > on this subject. I'm tired of the silliness.
> >
> > Here is the stupid silliness. Do you have any
> > studies to the contrary or do you base your
> > "knowledge" in silliness?
> >
> > (numbers = AGE kU/100 g)
> >
> > Oil, olive 11,900
> > Oil, sesame (Asian Gourmet) 21,680
> >
> > compare it with:
> >
> > Apple, Macintosh 13
> > Banana 9
> > Cantaloupe 20
> > Dates, Sun-Maid California 60
> > Carrots, canned 10
> >
> > Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a
> > Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet
> >
> >
> [marshfieldceliac.weebly.com]
>
> > /2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf
>
>
> I wonder if the oils mentioned are not raw?
>
> Also, if the fats come mainly from sprouts then
> there would be less glycation end products right?
>
>
> Sprouted fatty seeds: chia, flax, sesame and
> sunflower

Panchito, doesn't care about those little details in studies he really doesn't understand anyway.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already showed before the study that measures
> the gyclation end products of foods. Fats are the
> HIGHEST. Sugars (and carbs) the LOWEST. It is
> measurable! So if you are doing a high fat diet to
> avoid glycation you are blindly taking the WRONG
> direction.

That study was a joke. A bad one.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That study was a joke. A bad one.

[marshfieldceliac.weebly.com]

Thank you for teaching me something. The first symptom of confronting truth could be denial and laughter.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > this end it up being another Powerlifer hate
> > thread feeding the sprout/high-fat choir. ja ja
> > hope people learn to see who writes what
>
>
> By the way, Panchito, do you know any successful
> long term raw vegan 811ers who are not
>
> A. rich, or second generation rich, or retired
>
> And/or
>
> B. are single without the many responsibilities
> of taking care of family members of various ages
> with various needs


Well, panchito, forget it. Don't bother answering. I am no longer interested in what you have to say.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Compare with this: Aging Process and Ketosis
> [www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com]
> ss.html


Wow, now that was concise. Thanks for posting it!