Hi Chris,

I'm not very active physically, so that's not a problem. My stomach is messed up because I was gluten-intolerant my whole life and didn't know it. I already eat two bananas a day, dates, fresh or dried figs, young coconuts, a lot of nut/seed butters and nuts and seeds, and a root vegetable every day, a filling smoothie every day, banana ice cream, cashew pudding. Maybe I'll try having another banana a day to see if that helps. I just don't want to eat cooked food because I don't look or feel so good when I do. In the spring when I get raw goat milk, I'm hoping to gradually gain a few pounds back.

What's the best - easiest - calorie calculator online - maybe I'll check how many calories I'm getting a day.

what do you think is the best B-12 supplement to take? I do the patches right now, but might try something else. I'm not really into taking vitamin and mineral pills, especially if they have fillers in them - the stearic acid and magnesium stearate and gums give me a headache.

I get B-12, D and Omega tests in the spring and fall as feedback on my diet. That's one reason I stopped eating 100% raw vegan after 5 years, because my test scores were very low in the deficiency range. So then I went in the sun for ten minutes a day about three times a week and started raw goat milk and in the fall the test scores were a bit better, and are now in the low normal range.

A couple positives with the raw food diet is that I had a bone density arteriosclerosis test done and I was the lowest risk. I also had my blood oxygen level tested and it was 100%.

No, I've never had problems with vegetables. Don't want to get too gross, but slimy slippery foods can be a problem - like if I eat a banana straight or persimmon or fresh figs, maybe some herbal thing with slippery elm in it. Otherwise, I don't have digestive problems on all raw, just the weight thing.

What do you think of Brian Clement's B-12? I've been meaning to order it for ages now -

[www.hippocratesstore.org]

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Kidraw,
>
> Good call on calculating your total caloric intake
> for the day, which is what i was away to suggest.
> You could try writing down your average menu for
> the week, punching it in to see how many calories
> you are averaging most days. If your not getting
> adequate calories then you may not be getting the
> RDA for many nutrients, so it can be helpful to
> have a look.
>
> I have heard fitday.com is good for an online
> calorie counter and diet journal.
>
> If your digestion isn't very good, then it could
> be that your not absorbing much of the raw food,
> raw food can be hard to breakdown due to the tough
> fibers. I understand where your coming from on the
> cooked food, as i had severe digestive problems in
> the past. Gluten intolerance really did a number
> of my digestion and health also.
>
> I get B12 from food sources as you've probably
> read these days, but i think sublingual B12 is the
> most effective oral vitamin B12 supplement. Im not
> too sure how effective the patches are, ive used
> them before but ive heard mixed results.
>
> The vegan diet can be low in pre-formed Omega-3
> fatty acids such as EPA and DHA, food sources of
> these are best in my opinion but again they are
> typically not vegan or raw unfortunately.
>
> I found from personal experience that it wasn't
> the cooked or even animal foods which were
> problematic but my digestive dysfunction which
> included gut flora imbalances, leaky gut, low
> stomach acid and bile insufficiency which is just
> a disaster when it comes to trying to digest these
> harder to digest foods. I can't remember but im
> sure you said in the past that you had problems
> with even steamed/cooked vegetables if im
> remembering right ?
>
> Hope you manage to work out a solution
>


Muscle weighs more than fat so if she adds muscle, she should be adding weight. Are you saying she needs to overeat in order to gain weight? It also improves bone density, and I've heard that if you don't do weight-bearing exercises you will eventually end up with osteoporosis, regardless of how good your diet is. Adding muscle and bone density should help put on weight. Maybe she could do easy workouts like push-ups and bicep curls which shouldn't exert too much energy while also ensuring she gets sufficient amino acids to repair muscle tissue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:59PM by Prana.

What if I just wear those ankle weights around the house so when I go up and down the stairs, I get a work-out. And I don't mind doing squats. I don't think I could force myself to do those other things.

<<<Yeah to gain weight and muscle, one must consume more calories than they are expending.>>>

It's obvious that PL got his Nutritional Training as a Personal Trainer! ROFL

When I decided to start lifting weights again because I started to play competitive tennis and I wanted to protect my joints, I followed the FALSE BELIEF that one must "Consume Excess Calories" to do so. So I followed the "MUSCLE HEAD PROTOCOL" and ate 1,500 Extra Calories a day as was prescribed at the time and I gained 20 pounds in no time. I went from 165 pounds of solid muscle to 185 pounds and looked like the "TYPICAL MUSCLE HEAD"! I was still relatively lean as I went from around 6% Body Fat to around 15% Body Fat and I had those BIG FAT PUFFY MUSCLES that you see with the "TYPICAL MUSCLE HEAD"!

Now that I know better, one does NOT need all those Extra Calories to Gain Muscle. All we have to do to Gain Muscle is to Eat the Extra Calories we need to compensate for the Extra Resistance Exercise and in the process, we will get the Extra Protein.

Here is what Jeff Novick has to say regarding Protein Needed for Muscle Gain...

“However (as I also mentioned) the actual need for lean tissue deposition is very small. If someone was to put on 1 lb a month of muscle (which is not easy and hard to do, month after month) one pound of muscle is 454 grams, 75% of which is water weight (muscle tissue is 75% water). So that means the other 25% or 113 grams per month, is protein, or less than 4 grams per day, assuming 100% efficiency and utilization. Assuming 85% efficiency, from plant protein, that would be about 4.7 grams. 28 grams are 1 ounce, so this is like less than 1/8 of an ounce a day of extra protein needed. This is a very very small amount.”

Not only does PL FALSELY BELIEVE that we need to Eat Breakfast and if we don’t, it will Stress our Adrenals, not only does PL FALSELY BELIEVE that Vegetable Juice will raise our Blood Sugar Levels, not only does PL FALSELY BELIEVE that Vegetables don’t have any Fat when they are ~12 Fat, not only does PL FALSELY BELIEVE that 1 Pint of Carrot and Spinach Juice in a 50-50 Ratio does NOT provide 10 Grams of Protein, not only does PL FALSELY BELIEVE that we cannot get 10% Protein on a Raw Food Diet [www.rawfoodsupport.com] , but PL ACTUALLY BELIEVES that we have to “consume more calories than we are expending” to Gain Muscle when all we have to do is simply Eat the Extra Calories we need to compensate for the Extra Resistance Exercise.

Let’s Recap some of the FALSE BELIEFS that are held by PL:

#1) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that we need to Eat Breakfast and if we don’t, it will Stress our Adrenals!

#2) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that Vegetable Juice will raise our Blood Sugar Levels.

#3) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that Vegetables don’t have any Fat when they are ~12 Fat.

#4) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that 1 Pint of Carrot and Spinach Juice in a 50-50 Ratio does NOT provide 10 Grams of Protein.

#5) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that we cannot get 10% Protein on a Raw Food Diet [www.rawfoodsupport.com] .

#6) PL FALSELY BELIEVES that we have to “consume more calories than we are expending” to Gain Muscle when all we have to do is simply Eat the Extra Calories we need to compensate for the Extra Resistance Exercise.

Peace and Love..........John

Did i state anywhere how much extra protein or calories was needed ? I even said slight excess of calories which is exactly what Jeff Novick stated, do you just like to fight for no reason around here ?

Another member here forwarded a link about your expertise, what is your qualifications and training in health once again John Rose ? Being that you charge people for consultation as a medical professional.

The link says you are a "food research scientist". "John received a BBA in the science of money from SWTSU in 1976. Since money makes the world go around, John has been better trained as a scientist than doctors and biologists." LOL better trained than a doctor or biologist are you for real ?.

Yes because training in science of money obviously means you are a qualified medical professional. I usually go to my car mechanic for my health advice. Did you write that yourself ?, you really do have some ego if you think you are better qualified than real medical professionals.

[juicefeast.com]



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 07:09PM by powerlifter.

<<<Did i state anywhere how much extra protein or calories was needed ? I even said slight excess of calories which is exactly what Jeff Novick stated,>>>

No, you did NOT state how much extra protein or calories was needed, but you did say that we need to “Consume MORE CALORIES than we are EXENDING” and that is NOT True and that is NOT what Jeff Novick stated. All we need is a little Extra Protein and that comes from the Extra Calories we need to compensate for the Extra Resistance Exercise.

It truly is amazing how you try to twist things around when you are WRONG. I listed 6 of your FALSE BELIEFS and instead of Admitting that you are WRONG - you IGNORE 5 of your FALSE BELIEFS, LIE about 1 of your FALSE BELIEFS and then, you PREDICTIBLY play the Con Artist Card by attacking me.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Con Tactic #7) 11 of 28 - [3 of 4 Diverting Attention]

Another example of this technique is when the con artist ignores the issue and attacks the character of the opponent.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

As far as my formal education, yes, I have been professionally trained as a Scientist and I have been given the BEST System to record, analyze and present Information and then, doctors are NOT trained as Scientists and Biology is NOT an exact Science and their method of recording, analyzing and presenting Information pales in comparison with the System that I have been taught. I now realize that every Scientist should be trained as I have been trained because my training does not come with any bias.

Peace and Love..........John

Can you tell me more about what this science of money involves and how it relates to you being a qualified medical professional, better trained as a scientist than any doctor or biologist in your own words ?

I got an A in history and computing science, am i better qualified than any doctor too ?

This place just makes me laugh more and more everyday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 08:44PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found from personal experience that it wasn't
> the cooked or even animal foods which were
> problematic but my digestive dysfunction which
> included gut flora imbalances, leaky gut, low
> stomach acid and bile insufficiency which is just
> a disaster when it comes to trying to digest these
> harder to digest foods.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. 15 Years ago my gastroenterologist told me my whole digestive system was nothing but scar tissue when I was in the hospital for 10 days recovering from gall bladder complications. (I still have my gall bladder and it's working fine these days - used to average of an attack a week.)

Yet now I am eating 60% - 70% fat without the need of probiotics or digestive enzymes! Last year I had trouble even eating one avocado's worth of fat.

<<<I got an A in history and computing science, am i better qualified than any doctor too ?>>>

Once again, doctors are NOT Trained as Scientists and neither are those with a Degree in History or Computing Science. However, I have a Degree in Two-Valued Logic and my Degree is the only Science that teaches how Not to take the 1st Step in the Wrong Direction. All of the other Sciences are Not taught to Not to take the 1st Step in the Wrong Direction and are easily Tricked and Fooled. Indeed, it’s easy to Mis-Direct some of our brightest Minds by getting them to head East and look for a Sunset.

Now I could try to explain to you what Two-Valued Logic is and it’s actually so simple that every 7 year old child can understand it, but I’ve tried to explain this to you dozens of times and for some odd reason, and my guess would be Denial, you cannot wrap your brain around this very simple concept.

However, if I truly thought that you were genuine and sincere in your quest for Knowledge, I would try again, but I honestly don’t think that you are interested in learning anything that does not fit your existing Paradigm.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oils can actually be very effective for
> stimulating the gallbladder and liver to release
> bile and thus aid fat breakdown and fat-soluble
> vitamin absorption.
>
> There is studies which show that those who have an
> oil or fat based salad dressing with there salads,
> absorb significantly more carotenoid antioxidants
> than those who skipped the salad dressing.
>
> I used bitter herbs(artichoke etc) to stimulate
> bile flow/aid the overall digestive process,
> taurine(is a major component of bile). Now my
> digestive system works on its own, but it was a
> mess. Poorly chewing food, rushing meals and too
> much junk/refined sugars/gluten played a massive
> role in that too.
>

Oils are also very good for stimulating salivation which starts the digestive process. Delicious oily foods do that. Oils are extremely important to have in the diet for many reasons - even more so for women especially if they are interested in reproducing. And think of even all those cells we have with lipid bilayers in need of an oil change. This all can be done on a raw vegan diet which includes raw oils don't you think? I do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:58PM by Prana.

me too

i don't eat breakfast

just never had the like for it

even when i was a kid

breakfast just seemed kind of strange

never hungry in the morning

don't know why

its like that's the time of day when u gotta get revvin

and out the door

and a lot of stuff on your plate

to do all at once

and seems like a drag

to have something in your stomach

when u have to be very focused in the morning

and very clear

cuz at the start

u want to set clarity

if i do consume

its juices

i like green juices

broccoli celery is one of my faves

its very soothing

too

breakfast even as a kid

seemd like something " other" families did

we never did it

it seemed weird

and i used to see shows

where families would sit down at the table

mom dad kids

milk cereal orange juice bacon ham toast jam

it seemed like i was watching a commercial about people on mars LOL

like.. what the heck is that?

I don't eat breakfast either and typically fast for 16-17 hours per day. I exercise on an empty stomach and then eat for the first time around 1 pm. I always thought that the "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" thing was concocted by grain, sugar, and cereal producers to get you to eat their products. I feel good eating like this but it might change when I become more active in the spring and summer.

You're right, HH. I think it depends on how active you are or what stress you're under. When I'm just hanging around the house, I'm fine, but when I'm running around doing errands, by noon I feel the need to eat. Those who work 9:00 to 5:00 would probably want to eat earlier, but I'd still only just have water and fruit in the morning. Then I'd wait until noon to eat a salad or something filling like a smoothie.

I don't use any of those stimulants and don't display any of those symptoms. I exercise, but it's pretty light stuff, usually a 30 minute walk with 20 minutes of yoga one day and 20 minutes of weight-lifting the next. I often skip the walk or yoga/lifting. I communicate in this forum on a daily basis in the morning. You'd be hard-pressed to find any anger on my part. Maybe some stuff from way back that could be construed as such if you were so inclined, but I'm 100% positive that it would be accompanied by senseless provocation from people who do display the sort of anger that you describe. I'm not saying that I don't believe what you're saying. It's likely true for many people, but we all have different needs. As KidRaw said, if I had to get up and face the world first thing it would likely be different. At the very least, I'd want to get some healthy food in me in case the opportunity didn't come up later on. I don't suffer from morning nausea either. I just have better things to do than prepare and eat a meal that I don't particularly want.

I replenish protein post workout. Thanks for the advice.

Forgot to add that I also meditate in the morning. Wouldn't this switch off the sympathetic system?

PL wrote:

<<<Its only after forcing myself to be consistent with a good protein rich breakfast that i noticed stable energy throughout the day and none of those typical afternoon adrenal dips in energy that many get. Alot of the time that common dip in energy is just caused by poor blood sugar balance due to lack of having a breakfast.>>>

Once again, it is obvious that you do NOT Know How to Eat Properly and do NOT Know How the Body Works”!!! If you had Eaten Properly the day before, you would NOT need to Eat Breakfast and would NOT need your “protein rich breakfast” to create “stable energy throughout the day”!

As Jeff Novick points out, “Athletes with low glycogen stores, metabolize 2x the amount of protein as athletes who are carb loaded. ...So the excess protein is needed for energy and not muscle, due to a lack of carb intake.” This also applies to Non-Athletes, like PL, who do NOT Know How to Eat Properly!!!

<<<Energy for the day and maintaining homeostasis has to come from somewhere in absence of food though and i find most of these people use their sympathetic nervous system to increase energy levels.>>>

As I have mentioned before, if we Eat Properly, we do NOT need to Eat Breakfast and if anyone ends up “using their sympathetic nervous system to increase their energy levels” as PL keeps making reference to, that’s because they do NOT Know How to Eat Properly!!!

<<<If you are stressed, have trouble regulating blood sugar levels and/or sub-optimal adrenal gland function then eating a breakfast is crucial to balance blood sugar levels.>>>

WRONG again!!! The first Rule to Eating is to NEVER EAT when we are Stressed and the only people who MIGHT need to Eat Breakfast are those FOOLS who do NOT Know How to Eat Properly!!!

<<<what typically happens when someone skips breakfast, they activate the sympathetic nervous system to boost energy, increase blood sugar levels>>>

WRONG again!!! It is only those FOOLS who do NOT Know How to Eat Properly who end up “using their sympathetic nervous system to increase their energy levels”!!!

It takes 2 or 3 days of NOT Eating Anything at all for an inactive person who Knows How to Eat Properly to get to a point where they will “use their sympathetic nervous system to increase their energy levels”!!! However, if you are really active and you DO Know How to Eat Properly, then you could go all day without Eating and still NOT use your sympathetic nervous system to increase your energy levels”!!!

Once again PL, it is obvious that you do NOT Know How to Eat Properly and do NOT Know How the Body Works” because you still think that we need to Eat Breakfast and if we don’t, it will stress our Adrenals.

As I mentioned in an earlier Post, any Nutritionist or anyone else that gives a Blanket Statement like we should Eat Breakfast or we should NOT Eat Breakfast really does NOT know that much about Nutrition or How the Body Works. However, as long as we Eat Properly, then we should NOT Eat Breakfast. But a lot of people do NOT Eat Properly, so sometimes Breakfast just MIGHT be the most important Meal of the day.

Peace and Love..........John





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 04:21PM by John Rose.

Hey PL,

I noticed, once again, that you are changing the subject by NOT addressing the ISSUE of this Thread, which has to do with Eating Breakfast, and are playing the Con Artist Card by attacking me.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Con Tactic #7) 11 of 28 - [3 of 4 Diverting Attention]

Another example of this technique is when the con artist ignores the issue and attacks the character of the opponent.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

For example, PL wrote:

<<<Thats coming from the guy who lives on upto 16 pints of vegetable juice for around 60 days or more a year>>>

Once again, your comprehension skills leave much to be desired, unless you are just LYING again. In all honesty, sometimes it’s really hard to tell when you are LYING because you LIE so often and other times it’s almost like you don’t even read my Posts.

As I have pointed out many times, I usually only Live on Juices for 30 days each year as a reminder that Not Eating Solid Food is more FUN than Eating Solid Food, but as a scientist, I like to duplicate my Experiments, which is what I am doing this year.

<<<I also get plenty of carbs daily, my diet is nowhere near low carb.>>>

Once again, it is obvious that you do NOT Know How to Eat Properly and do NOT Know How the Body Works” because if you are getting plenty of Carbs daily as you say you do and you “notice stable energy throughout the day” by EATING DEAD ANIMAL FLESH or whatever your “protein rich breakfast” consists of, then you are simply FEEDING YOUR ADDICTION. You FEEL BETTER or think you have Stable Energy because you are Quenching your Withdrawal Symptoms from Eating Unnatural Food and it has nothing to do with your Energy Levels as you think it does - it has to do with you Satisfying your DRUG of Choice, which in your case is DEAD ANIMAL FLESH!!!

On a final note, a FOOL is someone who has been Tricked or Conned or Duped into a believing something is True when it is NOT True and by definition, you are one of the BIGGEST FOOLS that I have ever seen!!!

“The person who is ignorant enough to believe that his nourishment depends on meat is in a horrible dilemma.” -George Bernard Shaw





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 05:32PM by John Rose.

Ok John im a fool case closed, im not going to entertain this crap for another full night.

Go take your aggression out somewhere else.

As long as you keep attacking the TRUTH, I will DEFEND IT!!!

As long as you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over again, I’ll be here so that you don’t lead newbies or anyone else astray!!!

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as you keep attacking the TRUTH, I will
> DEFEND IT!!!
>
> As long as you keep repeating the same nonsense
> over and over and over again, I’ll be here so
> that you don’t lead newbies or anyone else
> astray!!!

I welcome critique and alternative opinions, thats the point in the forum in the first place.

Aslong as the person can communicate like a normal human being that is, which unfortunately you have proven time and time again that you can't.

Powerlifter, what's wrong with drinking a lot of vegetable juice?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifter, what's wrong with drinking a lot of
> vegetable juice?

Nothing wrong with drinking vegetable juice, its very nutrient rich and is a great supplement to most individuals diet.

Living just on 16 pints of vegetable juice for 60 or more days of the year, i would argue isn't what constitutes a balanced or healthy diet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 07:21PM by powerlifter.

<<<I welcome critique and alternative opinions, thats the point in the forum in the first place.>>>

Yes, I too welcome critique and alternative opinions, but this is a RAW VEGAN Website and YOU are NOT Raw and YOU are NOT Vegan!!!

<<<Aslong as the person can communicate like a normal human being that is, which unfortunately you have proven time and time again that you can't.>>>

Once again, I agree, except it is YOU - PL who has proven over and over to be incapable of communicating like a normal human being and to PROVE it, I will list a series of Posts where I was trying to have an HONEST Discussion with YOU, but YOU - PL REFUSED to address any of my Main Points that I actually enumerated to make it simple.

I will, once again, challenge YOU to address these Points and YOU will, once again, REFUSE to engage in an HONEST Debate!!!

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Herbert Shelton's way of FASTING
Posted by: John Rose
Date: March 17, 2013 11:27AM

Hey Chris [aka PL],

To keep this simple for everyone, I’m going to Assign Numbers to my key Points.

<<<We shouldn't need to take supplements as standard though unless there is some metabolic reason that one would need too. Isn't this exactly the opposite what the raw food diet is meant to achieve by supplementation being mandatory in order to achieve a nutritionally complete diet?>>>

Chris [aka PL],

How many times do I have to tell you that there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and you cannot use our Needs based on the Ripple Effect to DISCOUNT our Needs based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy?

Here’s my 1st Point - there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy. For some odd reason you just cannot accept this simple fact. I challenge you do address this Point because you NEVER have and we’ve had this conversation plenty of times for you to have had the opportunity to do so and yet, you keep ignoring it!!!

Our Anatomy is that of a PLANT EATER and NOT A MEAT EATER. The fact that we have made Mistakes and created Additional Needs based on those Mistakes does NOT take away from the FACT that our Anatomy has NOT CHANGED to a point where we can Digest, Absorb and Eliminate Animal Products without further Damaging our Body and having a myriad of Warning Signs to prove it.

Here’s my 2nd Point - our Anatomy is that of a PLANT EATER. There are about a dozen Anatomical Characteristics that clearly put all animals in a specific class of eaters and we do NOT have the Anatomy, teeth, enzymes, intestinal tract, etc. to eat Animals! The whole issue is not any more complicated than that, except that we’ve Damaged our Bodies by Eating the Wrong Foods and now, we’ve created Additional Temporary Needs based on the Ripple Effect where Effects become Causes, as in the Causal Loop.

I’ve only had this conversation with you about a dozen times and it boggles my mind how someone who appears to be fairly intelligent cannot understand something as simple as Cause & Effect and the Ripple Effect. I’ve given this example to you before, but since you keep spewing the same old nonsense, it looks like I have to use it again, if not for you, at least for others who might be confused partly because of you. To make this easy on myself, I’ll just cut and paste what I have already written to you before and add my 3rd Point and my 4th Point to it in order to Pile Drive it.

<<<I already addressed your flaws in the thread>>>

Chris [aka PL],

You have NEVER addressed any Flaws in my Logic. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!

All that you have done is use 1 Piece from 1 Puzzle to discount 1 Piece from another Puzzle. Don’t you understand that there are 2 Groups of Needs and you are using a Subsequent Need from the Group based on the Ripple Effect to Negate an Essential Need from the Group based on the Law of Cause & Effect?

Here’s my 3rd Point, which is the same as my 1st Point because you have NEVER addressed the fact that there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and you can’t use one Group of Needs to Negate the other Group of Needs.

Let me illustrate my point one more time…

Let’s go back to the Law of Cause & Effect and look at the first 3 of our 12 Essential Needs - Air, Water & Food.

Now let’s say that we don’t Satisfy our Need for Clean Air and as I’ve mentioned, if we don’t Satisfy any of our Essential Needs, we create an Additional Temporary Need. For example, if we Smoke Cigarettes, we may Damage our Lungs and may have an Additional Temporary Need for Pure Oxygen. Based on your Logic or Lack of Logic, this person will no longer have a Need for Clean Air because he now has this Additional Temporary Need for Pure Oxygen. This example using Clean Air and Smoking Cigarettes is exactly the same thing as Natural Food and Eating Foods we’re Not Biologically Adapted to Eat. Smoking Cigarettes and Eating Foods we’re Not Biologically Adapted to Eat can DAMAGE OUR BODY and now, we might have an Additional Temporary Need for Pure Oxygen or B12 or DHA. Our Need for Pure Oxygen or B12 or DHA does NOT mean we should Ignore the Laws of Nature and Not Breathe Clean Air or Eat Natural Food.

Here’s my 4th Point - you have NEVER acknowledged the simple Logic that once we Damage our Body with the Wrong Food or the Wrong Air, we create an Additional Temporary Need based on the Ripple Effect or the Causal Loop, in addition to our Original Essential Needs based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy, which means that we have 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy.

Once again, the Key here is if we had NEVER made any Mistakes and Satisfied all of our Essential Needs, we would Never have these 2 Additional Temporary Needs based on the Ripple Effect, just like those Norwegians who made Mistakes and ate Unnatural Food for millennia and now can no longer make any DHA or just like anyone who Smokes Cigarettes and now has a Need for Pure Oxygen.

YOU CANNOT USE A MISTAKE AS AN EXCUSE TO KEEP MAKING A MISTAKE!!!

<<<Nutrients such as Vitamin B12 and Omega 3 fatty acids are very easy to get from dietary sources, just not vegan ones unfortunately.>>>

Chris [aka PL],

But those Dietary Sources are coming from Foods we’re Not Biologically Adapted to Eat. Once again, 1 Group of Needs are based on our Anatomy and the other Group of Needs are based on our Mistakes and the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our Environment. If we make a Mistake and are no longer able to make a Level 2 Nutrient, like DHA, we can’t keep making the same Mistake without having more Negative Feedback.

<<<Many individuals have poor conversion issues of ALA to DHA also so it is wise to intake the full form of these nutrients.>>>

Indeed, this is where the True Art of Healing comes into play because if we keep giving our body a Level 2 Nutrient that Healthy people are supposed to be able to make, our body will atrophy and we’ll NEVER be able to make it.

<<<John is very right that if following a vegan diet then B12, D and Omega 3 supplementation is essential, but its only essential because the diet doesn't provide these nutrients from food sources.>>>

Wrong, I have never said this. All 3 of these Nutrients are supposed to come from Satisfying our 1st Group of Needs. B12 is supposed to come from our Environment, but thanks to the Chemical Revolution and the Industrial Revolution, B12 has become one of those Subsequent Needs that belong to the 2nd Group of Needs we must Satisfy. Likewise, Vitamin D is also supposed to come from our Environment - the Sun, but man has moved away from his Natural Habitant and now, Vitamin D for some people has become another one of those Subsequent Needs that belong to the 2nd Group of Needs we must Satisfy. And then, DHA is a classic example where Dietary Mistakes create a Subsequent Need that belongs to the 2nd Group of Needs we must Satisfy.

As I’ve mentioned countless times in the past, the fact that we have to Supplement our Ideal Diet does NOT mean a Raw Vegan Diet is NOT our Ideal Diet - it just means that some of us might have to Modify what we are Biologically Adapted to Eat because of the Ripple Effect.

Once again, Smoking Cigarettes and Eating Foods we’re Not Biologically Adapted to Eat can DAMAGE OUR BODY and now, we might have an Additional Temporary Need for Pure Oxygen or B12 or DHA. Our Need for Pure Oxygen or B12 or DHA does NOT mean we should Ignore the Laws of Nature and Not Breathe Clean Air or Eat Natural Food.

Here’s my 5th Point - whenever we DAMAGE OUR BODY and/or OUR ENVIRONMENT we create Additional Temporary Needs that in NO way Negate our Essential Needs for Clean Air, Pure Water, Natural Foods that we are Biologically Adapted to Eat, etc. etc.

The argument that if you have to Supplement, then the Diet is Not Ideal is Not a Logical argument. That would be a Logical argument if we had Not changed the Conditions, but the Conditions have changed and now, we have 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy. The 1st Group of Needs is based on the Law of Cause & Effect, which has to do with our Anatomy and our Environment and the 2nd Group of Needs is based on the Ripple Effect, which has to do with the Damage we’ve done to our Body and our Environment.

Now let’s recap my Main Points and let’s see if you can address those Points.

Point #1 - there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and I challenge you do address this Point because you NEVER have!!!

Point #2 - our Anatomy is that of a PLANT EATER and NOT A MEAT EATER.

Point #3 - there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and you can’t use one Group of Needs to Negate the other Group of Needs.

Point #4 - you have NEVER acknowledged the simple Logic that once we Damage our Body with the Wrong Food or the Wrong Air, we create an Additional Temporary Need based on the Ripple Effect or the Causal Loop, in addition to our Original Essential Needs based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy, which means that we have 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy.

Point #5 - whenever we DAMAGE OUR BODY and/or OUR ENVIRONMENT we create Additional Temporary Needs that in NO way Negate our Essential Needs for Clean Air, Pure Water, Natural Foods that we are Biologically Adapted to Eat, etc. etc.

"If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time--a tremendous whack.” -Winston Churchill

Peace and Love..........John
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Herbert Shelton's way of FASTING
Posted by: John Rose
Date: March 17, 2013 02:08PM

#1) YOU DID NOT ADDRESS ANY OF MY POINTS!!!

We have 2 Groups of Needs and we are NOT Biologically Adapted to Eat Animals.

#2) YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE!!!

In one sentence you say that “a physiological or metabolic need for supplementation is a different story” and then, in the very next sentence you include those very physiological or metabolic needs (based on a Damaged Body and a Damaged Environment) as a reason why a Raw Food Diet is lacking. You keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again and since you don’t live a Raw Food Lifestyle and since you don’t encourage others to live this way, which is the whole purpose of this Website, you’re beginning to make me think that you might even be an Internet Shill - [consciouslifenews.com] .

In many ways Chris [aka PL], you remind me of something Francois De La Rochefoucauld once said, “No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does.”

Peace and Love..........John
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Herbert Shelton's way of FASTING
Posted by: John Rose
Date: March 17, 2013 03:51PM

Hey Chris [aka PL],

Once again, YOU DID NOT ADDRESS ANY OF MY POINTS!!!

<<<Shill lol you make me laugh John. Ill add that to the list of names you have called me and others on this forum, who simply disagree with your views.>>>

No wonder I can’t get through to you. Your comprehension skills leave much to be desired. I NEVER called you a Shill - I only said and I’ll quote exactly what I said, “you’re beginning to make me think that you might even be an Internet Shill.” The fact that you can extrapolate what I said into calling you a Shill explains why you can’t seem to add 2 + 2 and actually reinforces my belief that you may indeed have an ulterior motive for being on a Website that Promotes a Way of Life that you do NOT follow or believe in.

As far as that list of names you claimed I called you, I’d love to see it. The only time I’ve actually called you a name is where I wrote, “Chris, you are either monumentally naïve or extremely Evil and I’m still not sure which one it is, although, I too was extremely naïve when I was your age.”

Once again, you don’t live a Raw Food Lifestyle and you don’t encourage others to live this way, which is the whole purpose of this Website.

Indeed, it seems that you are afraid to have an honest discussion because I have gone out of my way to make this simple.

Once again, I challenge you do ADDRESS ANY OF MY POINTS!!!

Peace and Love..........John
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Herbert Shelton's way of FASTING
Posted by: John Rose
Date: March 17, 2013 08:08PM

Chris [aka PL],

As soon as you address the Points I made above, which are the exact same Points that I’ve been making ever since we start discussing this a long time ago, I’ll be more than happy to answer all of your questions. In fact, I have always answered all of your questions in the past, but since you have NEVER addressed the Logic behind the Points I have made, I will treat your questions in the same way that you have been treating my questions and that’s by ignoring them. However, I will not stoop to your level by twisting what you say and claim that you’re calling me names and then start whining because I’m not making any sense.

So if you want to proceed from here, I do have one stipulation and that is that your answers have to make sense. Please don’t do what you did above where in one sentence you say that “a physiological or metabolic need for supplementation is a different story” and then, in the very next sentence you include those very physiological or metabolic needs as a reason why a Raw Food Diet is lacking and then, you turn around and act like as if you’ve addressed my Point. This shows a complete Lack of Logic and if you are genuine and sincere and truly want to have an honest discussion, Logic must dictate, otherwise, it’s a waste of my time.

Once again, here is a recap of my Main Points - the same Points I’ve made since Day 1 and let’s see if you can address those Points, but this time you have to make sense.

Point #1 - there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and I challenge you do address this Point because you NEVER have!!!

Point #2 - our Anatomy is that of a PLANT EATER and NOT A MEAT EATER.

Point #3 - there are 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy and you can’t use one Group of Needs to Negate the other Group of Needs.

Point #4 - you have NEVER acknowledged the simple Logic that once we Damage our Body with the Wrong Food or the Wrong Air, we create an Additional Temporary Need based on the Ripple Effect or the Causal Loop, in addition to our Original Essential Needs based on the Law of Cause & Effect and our Anatomy, which means that we have 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy.

Point #5 - whenever we DAMAGE OUR BODY and/or OUR ENVIRONMENT we create Additional Temporary Needs that in NO way Negate our Essential Needs for Clean Air, Pure Water, Natural Foods that we are Biologically Adapted to Eat, etc. etc.

Peace and Love..........John
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Peace and Love..........John

If you think im bothering to read that boring old copy and paste for the 50th time you spamming troll whos obviously got a massive hardon for me.

Half the members on the forum aren't raw or vegan. Ohh noes lets throw them out our cliquey club.

Your not even raw vegan yourself, you wouldn't accept my free offer of a polygraph test to prove you weren't another raw food liar, which speaks volume of how honest you really are.

Too chicken John ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 07:36PM by powerlifter.

This guy was very much on the inside of the raw food scene for a while. He says that "100% raw vegans" are liars. [www.youtube.com]

<<<If you think im bothering to read that boring old copy and paste for the 50th time you spamming troll whos obviously got a massive hardon for me.>>>

Yes, I have presented this to YOU more than once and, once again, YOU REFUSE to have an Honest Debate with me and the day that you stop Posting here is the day I will say, once again, GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

Once again, YOU are NOT Raw and YOU are NOT Vegan and the BIG difference between you and everyone else who comes here is they want to be!!!

<<<you wouldn't accept my free offer of a polygraph test>>>

Once again, YOU are using this as a DISTRACTION and I already addressed your challenge in a different Thread…

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Quote

This guy was very much on the inside of the raw food scene for a while. He says that "100% raw vegans" are liars. [www.youtube.com]

Ask John Rose he will know why Chris Randell has failed, what excuse will it be this time John ?, the law of cause and effect, or the ripple effect did he not understand lol.

Chris Randell was another all or nothing 100% raw vegan who coached others, now has failed the diet also. He beat dietary dogma though.

80/10/10 is well and truly over now with pretty much every public guru having failed the diet.

Ask yourself why there is so few long term examples of these diets, when the coaches and gurus can't even make the diet work ? Its not brain work, its becoming harder to think of even one honest long term 100% raw vegan. 100% raw is an outdated concept, which quite obviously hasn't worked and is potentially very dangerous.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 08:14PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This guy was very much on the inside of the raw
> food scene for a while. He says that "100% raw
> vegans" are liars.
>
> Ask John Rose he will know why Chris Randell has
> failed, what excuse will it be this time John ?,
> the law of cause and effect, or the ripple effect
> did he not understand lol.
>
> Chris Randell was another all or nothing 100% raw
> vegan who coached others, now has failed the diet
> also. He beat dietary dogma though.
>
> 80/10/10 is well and truly over now with pretty
> much every public guru having failed the diet.
>
> Ask yourself why there is so few long term
> examples of these diets, when the coaches and
> gurus can't even make the diet work ? Its not
> brain work, its becoming harder to think of even
> one honest long term 100% raw vegan. 100% raw is
> an outdated concept, which quite obviously hasn't
> worked and is potentially very dangerous.


You're right, it is very dangerous, but it also brings the most benefits when done correctly. There are many variables and it takes lots of hard work, dedication, and diligence in order to be successful in the long-term. I don't think many raw food guru's grow and consume their own fresh sprout/grass juices or even consume algae's. Many of them also shun away from nuts and seeds, which provide essential minerals, because they're so scared of eating above 10% fat. That is one thing I believe is completely overblown, that everyone's fat intake must be around 10%. There's not even any scientific evidence which proves that a high-fat, raw plant-based diet is unhealthy. All of them include diets of mainly animal products and don't take other lifestyle factors into consideration. You don't need to be 100% raw either to be healthy, Hippocrates supposedly tested the effect of cooked foods on the immune system and found that one can eat up to 15% cooked food without negatively impacting the immune system, but anything after that, there's a huge decline in immune functioning.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 08:25PM by jtprindl.