[nutritionfacts.org]

"What about chlorella? Blue-green algae supplements. Historically, the concern has been about a neurotoxin called BMAA. Should we continue to avoid blue-green algae? Yes, previously the only two places you could find this neurotoxin was in the brains of Alzheimer’s patients and on your health-food store shelf in the form of chlorella. But now it’s been found a third place, in the brains of those dying from Lou Gehrig’s disease. I’d continue to stay away from the stuff. "

No, that's not what he said, Panchito.

Chlorella is NOT to be confused with the blue-green algae he is saying has BMAA in it. Go back and reread if you want to get it right.

[vimeo.com]

I think they modified the content sometime later

According to the science, the blue-green algaes tend to have a problem with various toxins. Of course AFA has more, even spirulina has some of the same toxins, but much less. Of course spirulina is mainly farmed these days, but the nature of the food makes it tend to pick up things from the air and create these things. This does not appear to be a problem with chlorella.

The green and blue-green are very different algaes in many ways. Apart from the biolology, green algaes [from my study] tend to be potent zinc uptakers and will always have much higher levels of this than the blue greens. Chlorella has mainly the real source of B12, and vegetarians taking it and Nori have been recorded to have twice the B12 levels than those who didn't take those two foods, but it doesn't mean it is a 100% reliable source because conversion to analogues can easily happen.

Chlorella has high levels the wonderful nucleic acids which help contribute towards DNA repair. So if you have genetic defects, this food will help repair those so less disease will result (probably the most important aspect of this food...builds a stronger newer you). Chlorella is also a potent detox tool. Spirulina seems to be much higher in phytochemicals/anti oxidants, and has the blue pigments which is reported to have a good impact on brain function. Spirulina also has fake B12's (anti-vitamin B12).

To alter the zinc/copper ratio in foods, chlorella is the key...the blue-green algaes don't contain enough zinc to be able to do this despite them having excess zinc over copper.

The E3 live people claim that it is a highly nutritious algae, but a scientific analysis doesn't reveal this food to have high levels of nutrients at all. It has lots of traces of minerals, but not large amounts. Maybe this is why they don't make a nutritional analysis public.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2014 07:52PM by The Sproutarian Man.

"Spirulina also has fake B12's (anti-vitamin B12)."

Aside from the contamination, (which is reason enough not to take it,IMO), which will only continue to worsen with the Fukushima fallout, who wants Stepford B12 in their system when clean Atlantic wild nori is available? Hopefully no one.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Spirulina also has fake B12's (anti-vitamin
> B12)."
>
> Aside from the contamination, (which is reason
> enough not to take it,IMO), which will only
> continue to worsen with the Fukushima fallout,
> who wants Stepford B12 in their system when clean
> Atlantic wild nori is available? Hopefully no one.


Can you rely on Nori for all of your B12 though? The benefits of spirulina outweigh any potential detriments.

a study here.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


interesting article here..

[plantonlyman.blogspot.com]

But it's ultimately a moot point whether veganism can be sustained in a "natural" environment, since something's goodness is not contingent upon whether or not it is natural. Many things we as a society find repugnant, including rape, war, infectious disease, and natural disasters are natural, while many of the things we as a society value, including books, clothing, buildings, sanitation, TVs, cars, and computers are unnatural. Both vegans who argue that veganism is good because it's natural, and meat eaters who argue that veganism is bad because it's unnatural are committing an appeal to nature fallacy. Let's look at things from a pragmatic standpoint instead.

You could also take this bad boy: [www.hippocratesstore.org]

<<<Many things we as a society find repugnant, including rape, war, infectious disease...are natural...>>>

These are NOT Natural - these are all Symptoms/Warning Signs that are trying to tell us that something is WRONG and that something is we are making Mistakes. This is just like saying that the Dark Side of our Behavior is Natural or Man has a Propensity for EVIL and just like rape, war and infectious disease, the Dark Side of our Behavior is NOT Natural - it is a Warning Sign that is trying to tell us that we are making Mistakes.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Can you rely on Nori for all of your B12 though?

No, B12 is easily converted to analogues.


> The benefits of spirulina outweigh any potential
> detriments.

It seems that way. I am happy to use spirulina.

"It seems that way. I am happy to use spirulina."

Plus, since it's a blue food, doesn't that mean it's great for the pineal gland?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a study here.
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
>
>
> interesting article here..
>
> [plantonlyman.blogspot.com]
> 12-achilles-heel-of-vegan-diets.html
>
> But it's ultimately a moot point whether veganism
> can be sustained in a "natural" environment, since
> something's goodness is not contingent upon
> whether or not it is natural. Many things we as a
> society find repugnant, including rape, war,
> infectious disease, and natural disasters are
> natural, while many of the things we as a society
> value, including books, clothing, buildings,
> sanitation, TVs, cars, and computers are
> unnatural. Both vegans who argue that veganism is
> good because it's natural, and meat eaters who
> argue that veganism is bad because it's unnatural
> are committing an appeal to nature fallacy. Let's
> look at things from a pragmatic standpoint
> instead.


An interesting article but the citations are very out of date on the nori research.

Here is a more current abstract using updated equipment which shows Korean nori, at least, contains true B12, but not inactive corronoid compounds. Also interesting how much more is found in the untoasted nori. I wouldn't be surprised if truly raw nori has even more. Glad I buy the wild stuff that isn't dried over 90F...

[pubs.acs.org]

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Here is a more current abstract using updated
> equipment which shows Korean nori, at least,
> contains true B12, but not inactive corronoid
> compounds. Also interesting how much more is found
> in the untoasted nori. I wouldn't be surprised if
> truly raw nori has even more. Glad I buy the wild
> stuff that isn't dried over 90F...
>
> [pubs.acs.org]

Yes, drying foods is said to convert usuable B12 to analogues. This is not always the case, but sometimes it can be. Some dried Nori has had a good B12 increasing effect, others haven't. But whatever, fresh raw Nori would be much more likely to contain the real B12 than it's dried counterpart.

But the question John Rose brought up in his recent files on B12... where is the proof that analogues block the real B12? The human body is full of mainly B12 analogues (something like 95% in the intestines from memory), so does the body have the enzyme ability to deal with them?

Many many questions, very few answers.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Here is a more current abstract using
> updated
> > equipment which shows Korean nori, at least,
> > contains true B12, but not inactive corronoid
> > compounds. Also interesting how much more is
> found
> > in the untoasted nori. I wouldn't be surprised
> if
> > truly raw nori has even more. Glad I buy the
> wild
> > stuff that isn't dried over 90F...
> >
> >
> [pubs.acs.org]



> Yes, drying foods is said to convert usuable B12
> to analogues. This is not always the case, but
> sometimes it can be.


Are you talking about commercial drying which is usually done at high temperatures or what? Who told you this? Sounds very very wishy washy.


Some dried Nori has had a
> good B12 increasing effect, others haven't. But
> whatever, fresh raw Nori would be much more likely
> to contain the real B12 than it's dried
> counterpart.

Who is telling you this wishy washy stuff? Or did you read it somewhere long ago?

Real B12 has a cobalt atom. The analogue corriniod compounds do not. Are you suggesting that nori that has real B12 and not the analogue corriniod compounds can loose their cobalt atoms and become analogue B12? If so how are you saying that would occur?


... where is the proof that
> analogues block the real B12?

One guy, on a now extinct forum, who said he was an athlete and a coach, said his B12 was fine until he started taking blue-green algae and his uMMA test showed his B12 level had radically dropped. He said when he discontinued taking the blue-green algae his B12 went back to normal again. He is the only one I've read from so far who has bothered to do the standard tests for this so that's all I've heard. I'm certainly open to hearing more peoples experience, and test results, but where are they? There's mostly just a lot of hot air circulating.


***editing to say that I do not take B12 supplements and my serum B12 last year was, if I'm recalling right, 480. My aim for this year's test, still without supplements, since I'm taking a lot of seaweed now, is 550 which is the average in Japan. I've never had a low B12 test.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2014 01:37AM by SueZ.

"Are you talking about commercial drying which is usually done at high temperatures or what? Who told you this? Sounds very very wishy washy."

[www.naturalnews.com]

"Does it matter whether nori is raw or dried?

The International Journal for Vitamin and Nutrition Research confirmed in another 1999 clinical study that nori is an excellent source of natural B-12. However, the study went on to remark that dried nori actually had a negative effect on vegetarian children. The researchers were curious to see why dried and raw nori had such different results. They discovered that when nori was dried, the chemical composition changed from genuine B-12 to a harmful analogue -- something similar to B-12 that actually caused the B-12 levels in children to drop. Vegan parents may want to exercise caution and find a different source of Vitamin B-12 for their children.

After the 1999 study was published, a team of scientists from the Laboratory of Nutrition and Food Science at Hagoromo-gakuen College in Japan decided to confirm the findings concerning dried nori and B-12 loss. Vitamin B-12 deficient rats were fed dried nori which contained five different forms of vitamin B-12. Interestingly, when these rats were measured for vitamin B-12 deficiency in their urine, there was none at all. In addition, the amount of vitamin B-12 in the rat's bloodstream significantly increased. The researchers concluded that the vitamin B-12 contained in dried nori is definitely bio-available to rats."

To me this relatively current study...

[pubs.acs.org]

and it's three cited studies are the game changers.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To me this relatively current study...
>
> [pubs.acs.org]
>
> and it's three cited studies are the game
> changers.


Well you've been eating sea vegetables a long time, right? When you got tested last, were your levels normal or deficient?

Nevermind lol, didn't see your above post.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To me this relatively current study...
> >
> >
> [pubs.acs.org]
> >
> > and it's three cited studies are the game
> > changers.
>
>
> Well you've been eating sea vegetables a long
> time, right? When you got tested last, were your
> levels normal or deficient?

From my above edit...

***editing to say that I do not take B12 supplements and my serum B12 last year was, if I'm recalling right, 480. My aim for this year's test, still without supplements, since I'm taking a lot of seaweed now, is 550 which is the average in Japan. I've never had a low B12 test.

I did not take seaweed for the 11 month prior to my last test when I was on a hclf raw diet. As I have posted before I ate a lot of whole unwashed dandelions from my chemical free yard during the time I was on that diet which probably helped keep my B12 level up. I do not think I have any vitamin B problems now at all as my normally exceptional fine motor skills have, if anything, been improving.

[www.lotussuperfoods.com]

Hydrilla Verticillata has ridiculous amounts of B12 (7,750% per tablespoon), but I don't know how much is absorbable. An amazing algae with hopefully no toxicity.

Nutritional Info Based on 4.75g Serving Size (1 tablespoon)

Dietary Fiber 2 g (8%)
Sugars <1 g (0%)
Protein 0.65 g
Vitamin A 5454 i.u. (109%)
Vitamin C 6.53 mg (11%)
Vitamin E 2.77 i.u. (9%)
Thiamin 7.2 mg (480%)
Riboflavin 0.26 mg (15%)
Niacin 13 mg (65%)
Vitamin B6 4.5 mg (225%)
Vitamin B12 475 mcg (7,750%)
Pantothenic Acid 8.4 mg (84%)
Calcium 624 mg (62.4%)
Chromium 7.4 mcg (6%)
Copper 174 mcg (8.7%)
Iron 4.6 mg (25%)
Phosphorus 12 mg (1.2%)
Magnesium 38.3 mg (9.6%)
Molybdenum 8.7 mcg (11.7%)
Selenium 1.25 mcg (2%)
Zinc 0.3 mg (2%)
Boron 65 mcg*
Cobalt 174 mcg*
Silica 32.7 mg*
GLA 3 mg*
Chlorophyll 16 mg*
Polysaccharides 2 g*

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.lotussuperfoods.com]
> ta-green-superfood-powder/
>
> Hydrilla Verticillata has ridiculous amounts of
> B12 (7,750% per tablespoon), but I don't know how
> much is absorbable. An amazing algae with
> hopefully no toxicity.
>
> Nutritional Info Based on 4.75g Serving Size (1
> tablespoon)
>
> Dietary Fiber 2
> g (8%)
> Sugars
> <1 g (0%)
> Protein
> 0.65 g
> Vitamin A 5454 i.u.
> (109%)
> Vitamin C 6.53 mg
> (11%)
> Vitamin E 2.77
> i.u. (9%)
> Thiamin 7.2 mg
> (480%)
> Riboflavin 0.26 mg
> (15%)
> Niacin 13
> mg (65%)
> Vitamin B6 4.5 mg
> (225%)
> Vitamin B12 475 mcg
> (7,750%)
> Pantothenic Acid 8.4 mg (84%)
> Calcium 624 mg
> (62.4%)
> Chromium 7.4 mcg
> (6%)
> Copper 174 mcg
> (8.7%)
> Iron
> 4.6 mg (25%)
> Phosphorus 12 mg
> (1.2%)
> Magnesium 38.3 mg
> (9.6%)
> Molybdenum 8.7 mcg (11.7%)
> Selenium 1.25 mcg
> (2%)
> Zinc
> 0.3 mg (2%)
> Boron
> 65 mcg*
> Cobalt
> 174 mcg*
> Silica
> 32.7 mg*
> GLA
> 3 mg*
> Chlorophyll 16
> mg*
> Polysaccharides
> 2 g*

No way would I eat that @#$%& crop. It grows, and is "wildcrafted" in the stagnant swampy backwaters of highly polluted Florida stench pools. Yuck.

Incidentally, another nutrient dense crop I wouldn't touch is watercress. Watercress is grown in the lowest wettest otherwise useless areas of farms because it require a lot of water. Problem is - that pooled water the watercress grows in is the runoff from acres and acres of toxin laden ag chemical soup used on the higher ground. Another yuck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2014 03:38AM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> [www.lotussuperfoods.com]
>
> > ta-green-superfood-powder/
> >
> > Hydrilla Verticillata has ridiculous amounts of
> > B12 (7,750% per tablespoon), but I don't know
> how
> > much is absorbable. An amazing algae with
> > hopefully no toxicity.
> >
> > Nutritional Info Based on 4.75g Serving Size (1
> > tablespoon)
> >
> > Dietary Fiber
> 2
> > g (8%)
> > Sugars
>
> > <1 g (0%)
> > Protein
>
> > 0.65 g
> > Vitamin A 5454
> i.u.
> > (109%)
> > Vitamin C 6.53
> mg
> > (11%)
> > Vitamin E 2.77
> > i.u. (9%)
> > Thiamin 7.2
> mg
> > (480%)
> > Riboflavin 0.26
> mg
> > (15%)
> > Niacin
> 13
> > mg (65%)
> > Vitamin B6 4.5 mg
> > (225%)
> > Vitamin B12 475 mcg
> > (7,750%)
> > Pantothenic Acid 8.4 mg
> (84%)
> > Calcium 624 mg
> > (62.4%)
> > Chromium 7.4 mcg
> > (6%)
> > Copper 174
> mcg
> > (8.7%)
> > Iron
> > 4.6 mg (25%)
> > Phosphorus 12 mg
> > (1.2%)
> > Magnesium 38.3 mg
> > (9.6%)
> > Molybdenum 8.7 mcg (11.7%)
> > Selenium 1.25
> mcg
> > (2%)
> > Zinc
> > 0.3 mg (2%)
> > Boron
>
> > 65 mcg*
> > Cobalt
>
> > 174 mcg*
> > Silica
>
> > 32.7 mg*
> > GLA
>
> > 3 mg*
> > Chlorophyll
> 16
> > mg*
> > Polysaccharides
>
> > 2 g*
>
> No way would I eat that @#$%& crop. It grows,
> and is "wildcrafted" in the stagnant swampy
> backwaters of highly polluted Florida stench
> pools. Yuck.
>
> Incidentally, another nutrient dense crop I
> wouldn't touch is watercress. Watercress is grown
> in the lowest wettest otherwise useless areas of
> farms because it require a lot of water. Problem
> is - that pooled water the watercress grows in is
> the runoff from acres and acres of toxin laden ag
> chemical soup used on the higher ground. Another
> yuck.


Where did you see it was grown in Florida? I emailed the company and they confirmed that they test for heavy metals and other contaminants.

not vegan. toxic , unclean

life vs lifelessness

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.lotussuperfoods.com]
> ta-green-superfood-powder/
>
> Hydrilla Verticillata has ridiculous amounts of
> B12 (7,750% per tablespoon), but I don't know how
> much is absorbable. An amazing algae with
> hopefully no toxicity.
>
> Nutritional Info Based on 4.75g Serving Size (1
> tablespoon)
>
> Dietary Fiber 2
> g (8%)
> Sugars
> <1 g (0%)
> Protein
> 0.65 g
> Vitamin A 5454 i.u.
> (109%)
> Vitamin C 6.53 mg
> (11%)
> Vitamin E 2.77
> i.u. (9%)
> Thiamin 7.2 mg
> (480%)
> Riboflavin 0.26 mg
> (15%)
> Niacin 13
> mg (65%)
> Vitamin B6 4.5 mg
> (225%)
> Vitamin B12 475 mcg
> (7,750%)
> Pantothenic Acid 8.4 mg (84%)
> Calcium 624 mg
> (62.4%)
> Chromium 7.4 mcg
> (6%)
> Copper 174 mcg
> (8.7%)
> Iron
> 4.6 mg (25%)
> Phosphorus 12 mg
> (1.2%)
> Magnesium 38.3 mg
> (9.6%)
> Molybdenum 8.7 mcg (11.7%)
> Selenium 1.25 mcg
> (2%)
> Zinc
> 0.3 mg (2%)
> Boron
> 65 mcg*
> Cobalt
> 174 mcg*
> Silica
> 32.7 mg*
> GLA
> 3 mg*
> Chlorophyll 16
> mg*
> Polysaccharides
> 2 g*


This nutritional analysis is interesting. I've read various science papers on this plant stating it is a "hyper-zinc" and "hyper-calcium" plant. I've seen zinc levels up to 15 mg per 10 grams and up to 1,400 mg of calcium per 10 grams.

Said to be the most nutritious plant ever discovered, but toxicity concerns are also mentioned in the literature. I will email Kulvinskas (the algae man) and Brian Clement and see what they have to say about it, it should be interesting to hear their views. Maybe they have tried it or heard some testimonials by users.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2014 08:43AM by The Sproutarian Man.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > No way would I eat that @#$%& crop. It grows,
> > and is "wildcrafted" in the stagnant swampy
> > backwaters of highly polluted Florida stench
> > pools. Yuck.
> >
> > Incidentally, another nutrient dense crop I
> > wouldn't touch is watercress. Watercress is
> grown
> > in the lowest wettest otherwise useless areas
> of
> > farms because it require a lot of water.
> Problem
> > is - that pooled water the watercress grows in
> is
> > the runoff from acres and acres of toxin laden
> ag
> > chemical soup used on the higher ground.
> Another
> > yuck.
>
>
> Where did you see it was grown in Florida?


"As for powdered hydrilla… in north Florida they raise Hydrilla in an isolated lake, sterilize it with pure water and ozone treatment, low-temperature dry it, powder it and sell it to you."

[www.eattheweeds.com]

From the comments the best idea for it's use seems to be to find a known clean unsprayed patch and use it for composting. Hopefully some enterprising people will figure out a way to get gov to stop spraying it and offer to take the problem off their hands by collecting it, composting it, and selling it to gardeners.


I
> emailed the company and they confirmed that they
> test for heavy metals and other contaminants.


Did you ask them how many times a year they test and when? I've read that it's common practice with seaweed companies to only test once a year.

I'd personally avoid things grown in warm latitude lakes in big ag sea level territory myself. Remember, too, there are always going to be toxic algae blooms that could be especially bad for this plant as a lot of it floats on the surface. Does the company test for toxic algae bloom contamination at the appropriate times?
It's such an unnecessary crap shoot especially in light of the more currant B12 info on nori. IMO.

I consider it a kind of superfood. I dont eat it everyday. Or every month. Rarely. Its a treat when I have a blue green coconut smoothie.

I had no idea it was toxic to the brain. I never felt that. Maybe if you eat a whole jar.

I knew a kid who lived in a teepee at the Tree of Life, he is still there as a teacher, now, and married, and he used to eat alot of chlorella tablets. He was always glowing.

I know buckwheat is toxic in large amounts, but that didnt stop me from sprouting it and putting a little on my salads.

I was around when it was first discovered seaweeds were analog and didnt absorb b12. Noone is god and noone knows how these things are made and effect on the body and all studies are biased in some way. Quantum physics says the observer affects reality and what you believe. Affecting your test.

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had no idea it was toxic to the brain. I never
> felt that.

Well now you know. It may take a long long time to 'feel it'. It's worthwhile to do at least basic homework on it if you are taking it, IMO.


> I knew a kid who lived in a teepee at the Tree of
> Life, he is still there as a teacher, now, and
> married, and he used to eat alot of chlorella
> tablets. He was always glowing.


Chlorella is a whole different thing with a whole different story than blue-green algae. Personally, I take a T. of it a day. I won't eat the blue-green algae now that I know better. Too bad for me that I bought an expensive pound of it before I did the homework. Live and learn.


> I know buckwheat is toxic in large amounts, but
> that didnt stop me from sprouting it and putting a
> little on my salads.


Buckwheat itself is not toxic. The toxin is in it's leaves which shouldn't be eaten in great amounts.


> I was around when it was first discovered seaweeds
> were analog and didnt absorb b12.

And now you are around when it has been found out otherwise. Rejoice!

thanks for the reference, SueZ,

yes i agree with you JR..

Diogenez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not vegan. toxic , unclean


Stop posting ignorance and misinformation. First, you say that sprouts and grasses are toxic and anyone who eats sprouts is a plant pedophile. Then you say that cranberries are toxic, and now you say spirulina is toxic. All false. What do you eat, 100% fruit?