RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is the story of the little boy who helped
> blind men cross the road.
> One day he came home very frustrated.
> What is the matter today his parents asked.
> I wanted to help them so much but no one wanted to
> cross the road today he replied.

Its not like i am a spammer though RP, trust me if i wanted to show up a raw vegan diet i could sit and make thread after thread if i was of that nature. Yet ive never made one thread showing up veganism or pushing my luck in that way on here.

I will however give you an honest answer if its applicable to the thread. If b12 is low on a vegan diet, then i will say that if the research is there to prove that.

The banning obviously stemmed from bananawhos thread(honest question on veganism) and i gave her my honest answer.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2014 09:28PM by temp.

"Then ill wake up with a PM from some random member saying my posts led their daughter to getting the right help and now shes well or that there eczema cleared up and so on and so on. Then i realize its worth the stress of putting up with the clowns."

But you have to realize that you could be doing the complete opposite when you state that a vegan diet is impossible. People may actually believe you and go back to unhealthy habits like eating animal products. You could say something like "sustaining yourself long-term on a 100% raw vegan diet is challenging and must be well-planned, so beware".. and then list the potential dangers, but flat-out stating it is impossible is a lie and a disservice to those who aspire or are currently living this way. Since you're into weight training, maybe you could use 100% raw vegan bodybuilders as inspiration. A lot of raw vegans do look emaciated, but that's not automatically the diet's fault (there are emaciated SAD people too), there are different variables in every raw vegan diet, but there are also raw vegans who are just as muscular as people on high meat-eating diets as well.

"If b12 is low on a vegan diet, then i will say that if the research is there to prove that."

B12 deficiency is not a result of a vegan diet, it is a result of the cesspool of toxicity we refer to as the "environment" and unnatural toxic foods which destroy healthy gut bacteria.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Then ill wake up with a PM from some random
> member saying my posts led their daughter to
> getting the right help and now shes well or that
> there eczema cleared up and so on and so on. Then
> i realize its worth the stress of putting up with
> the clowns."
>
> But you have to realize that you could be doing
> the complete opposite when you state that a vegan
> diet is impossible. People may actually believe
> you and go back to unhealthy habits like eating
> animal products. You could say something like
> "sustaining yourself long-term on a 100% raw vegan
> diet is challenging and must be well-planned, so
> beware".. and then list the potential dangers, but
> flat-out stating it is impossible is a lie and a
> disservice to those who aspire or are currently
> living this way. Since you're into weight
> training, maybe you could use 100% raw vegan
> bodybuilders as inspiration. A lot of raw vegans
> do look emaciated, but that's not automatically
> the diet's fault (there are emaciated SAD people
> too), there are different variables in every raw
> vegan diet, but there are also raw vegans who are
> just as muscular as people on high meat-eating
> diets as well.

Thank you for the post. Very well said.

>>Tell me. How did you get to be such a ----

all that cooked makes it harder to deal with stress.

but i am what you think i am.. no more no less.

angel, devil, it's all your projection.


and taking things personally is part of the problem

[www.amazon.com]

People have the right to choose even if it is the wrong choice from our view point.
There is the story of a 70 years old man, a heavy smoker who was sick and went to the doctor. The doctor told him if he stopped smoking he could add 10 years to his life.
He came home and chose to continue to smoke. 10 more years had less value to him than smoking.
There is no question this was the wrong choice for him and society.

"If your getting the vibe from my posts that a raw vegan diet isn't possible, then what do you think thats saying ?"

It's not a vibe, it's what you literally said.

I think it's fine from someone to have the belief or even their own personal experience that raw does not work for them. And this is the case with powerlifter, as he did try raw and vegan for some time, and it didn't work for him. And he has observed, quite correctly, that for many raw proponents, they are not eating all raw now, in fact many of them get a majority of their calories from cooked foods. I agree with this too.

That being said, the purpose of this forum is to support people who want to get into raw foods, not necessarily for the purpose for them to become all raw, but to support them with their health goals. And for those wanting to eat all raw, there are people here like myself and others who have been doing this for a long time. We are here to support those who want to learn more about raw foods, or are having difficulties and would like to hear the experience of people who are thriving on a raw diet. Getting an answer like "raw vegan doesn't work" (i'm paraphrasing here) from people like powerlifter does nothing to support or help people with issues that may arise on the raw diet.

The whole thing with the sardines was too much for me.

We don't require that anyone here be all raw or all vegan or vegan at all. We do however require that people's posts here support the people who are trying the raw vegan diet. I don't see telling people that "raw vegan doesn't work" as the kind of support we are looking for here on this forum.

So are you saying im not supporting peoples health goals then ?

Thats quite a shock Prana, considering the effort i go to helping others around here.

I support these people by telling them the benefits and the contraindications of anything whether thats raw food or a supplement.

From there they can make there own mind up if 100% is safe for them or not. I don't believe it to be, if you do thats great.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2014 11:17PM by temp.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyway peace out, im abit disappointed but none
> the less the forum was virtually ruined by the
> bullies and over-run by trolls anyway, no one
> comes here anymore. These guys can't even be civil
> whilst discussing vegan topics without wanting to
> fight, bully and insult each other all day.
>



Point well taken. Best to ignore the posts of certain folks, l do that now. I don't oblige children talk of people who want to argue and troll and name call.

If you have a reputation as a troll, name caller and argumentative person, you opinion no longer matters to me, you might as well be invisible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2014 11:19PM by The Sproutarian Man.

temp, your advice always comes with a caveat: "the raw vegan diet doesn't work". I get that you believe this, and this is your personal experience of the raw diet. But this is not the kind of support this forum is looking for.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Veganism is reminiscent of a cult or a religious
> zealot faction in alot of ways. That is not
> meaning to be disrespectful, its just the way many
> outsiders perceive it.


That seems to be true for many vegans. People devote their lives to raw veganism and that can lead to cultish behaviour. It certainly turns many outsiders off, we can become disconnected with reality if we are not careful. We need to be very careful to get good nutrition and keep our wits about us.

>
> Many raw vegans come over as elitist snobs and are
> none to welcoming to people who eat in a different
> way.


Sadly that is true.


>
> Do you think thats enticing or inspiring to people
> who want to go raw vegan from the outside ?

It's very off putting to many on the outside.

Hi Bryan.

(Sorry to hijack the thread, guys)

I sent you a couple PMs in the last few days. Maybe you didn't see them. I have a question for you.

Thanks.

KidRaw

I read this forum every day. I know what is good for my body. I know that raw veganism supports me. I am not always strong in my environment but reading about options that people experience helps. Reading negativity does not. If you can't say something nice, I prefer you don't say anything. Thank you to all those who are doing it, trying it, and living life in peace. I know I am better off and greatful for good fresh fruits, veggies, greens, seeds, and sprouts.

If you are recommending animal products, that is against the TOS and VEGAN discussion. It's logical that you may get a warning or be banned. When you signed up to post on this forum, you agreed to those terms.

I've heard this story before where you are reprimanded and then lash out at other people in anger.
1) your story about the PMs you get from members disparaging other members is irrelevant to the terms you violated
2) your current diet or fresh's current diet or my current diet is irrelevant to the terms you violated
While it may make you feel somehow "good" to pretend you are the ring leader to a gossip chain about the 5-6 members you seemingly dislike (yet you spent/spend (as you haven't left obviously) so much free time here), I think it discredits you even more. I hope for your sake you stop coming back and honor the ban.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 02:40AM by Utopian Life.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> temp, your advice always comes with a caveat: "the
> raw vegan diet doesn't work". I get that you
> believe this, and this is your personal experience
> of the raw diet. But this is not the kind of
> support this forum is looking for.

I won't disagree, my opinion usually concludes that a strict vegan diet probably isn't safe in the long term due to the research ive done for most individuals. But that doesn't mean i don't recommend the benefits of a high plant based diet based around these raw/living foods, or have spent the last 4+ years of my life promoting these plant foods everyday on here and trying to arm others with a balanced no bias view of the research which is there.

So essentially what your saying is that to be part of this forum, you need to believe strict veganism and 100% raw is possible. Why is it compulsory to believe in strict veganism to want to include more living foods in the diet ? More than half of the members here don't want to be 100% raw or often even vegan. Your alienating alot of the few members that are left by banning me.

Yet half of the members aren't strictly raw or vegan here anyway, nor want to be due to the number of documented problems. The only difference with these people is that they make excuse after excuse why their not 100% raw or vegan, i just tell the truth why i couldn't make the diet work vocally. That way the next set of newbies aren't so blinded and can make their own informed decision about strict raw veganism.

Also utopian i have never in my time on here recommended animal foods, until yesterday when a conversation left me with no choice but to mention suitable alternatives.

When have i ever been reprimanded on the forum ?, usually these posts are me voluntary saying im leaving due to the nutcases that Prana lets flow freely on the forum these days. My PM box is full of supportive PM's from other members which im thankful for, i wouldn't say it was if it wasn't.

People don't like the way the forum is being run and i hate to say it but that inolves Prana's modding abilities or lack of moderation should we say. The irony is these people would rather have a non-vegan like me around than they would a hardcore vegan like John Rose. Which says it all really.

Utopian you don't like me and that much has been obvious since meeting you on other raw forums years ago like goneraw because ive never been supportive of your gracious 80/10/10 diet.

You feel ive violated the rules by suggesting strict veganism probably isn't healthy especially in the long term. How do you feel about the number of other members who constantly break the rules daily around here with all the abuse, bullying, insults, ganging up on others ? Why are these people aloud to wreck havoc on the forum, is it because there supportive raw foodists, by the time Prana ever wakes up to mod these people, there will be no forum.

Member after member even publicly these days are calling for action, yet he bans me for my view on strict veganism. Allowing racism, bullying and hate to flourish on the forum. Well done.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 07:27AM by temp.

What is up with you?

You read pranas post but u must not understand it.

you are incorrect with your "contraindications"

you are anti vegan

your rationalizations about others not being vegan are irrelevant

what part of "u dont need to be vegan" to post here dont u understand?

would u prefer a vegan requirement here?

save yourself before you obtain your lifeblood from saving others.

Anti-fad diets yes, pro fresh wholefood, plantfoods, superfoods, herbs etc.

So yes i don't adhere to your cliquey or fancy diet labels but it doesn't mean im not supportive of consuming a high intake of plant foods for health.

What part of that can you not understand ?

Or are you too dogmatic like you appear to constantly be.

The majority of members here, would rather have a non-vegan like me than they would you or john rose on the forum. Says it all really.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 08:46AM by temp.

Why do u eat 25% raw ?

there you go again with your fad diet slur

And u still dont understand the moderators instructions to you?

And u are the dogmatic one always saying that others cant say this or cant say that unless they are 100% whatever.

you are a control freak.

and are u trying to set a record for the most posts after being banned?

The 80/10/10 diet has been out less than 10 years so yes these are fad diets, come back in 30 years and if there still going strong, then yes they won't be a fad. Paleo is a just another fad and so on.

25% raw is the minimum amount of raw i eat daily, but i always consume 80% plantfoods, its just that i lightly steam alot of my foods. The raw portion of my diet comes from fruits, salad greens, fresh herbs, sea veggies, fermented foods and sprouts/wheatgrass now and again.

Im a control freak ahahahha, at least im open minded enough. You can't handle Suez with her high-fat, you can't handle sproutarianman and his sprouts. You can't handle any alternative dietary opinion.

You my friend are the real control freak. Prana has already had a member forward an email address, 2 other members that are to PM me then im adios. So you can not worry ill shed any light to your sub par vegan diet.

25% raw is not enough raw for most but we respect your choice.
Everyone has the right to eat what they want.
You bring a lot of good info to the forum.
You could continue to be of great help if you follow the rules of the forum.
It is a raw vegan support forum.
It is not required to be raw vegan.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 25% raw is not enough raw for most but we respect

Well thats the problem in question here RP, there is a radical minority of members which don't respect my choices and resort to the point of insulting.

If people just accepted i have my opinion and that they have theirs. There would be no issue.

The problem is that some are completely intolerant to different ideas. Doesn't even matter if they comply with raw or veganism. The sproutarians and high-fat raw foodists like Suez are no more welcome here than i am.

Also as long as the majority of the diet is plant based and nutritionally complete/balanced, how much raw food you consume is irrelevant. 80% plant based diet is more than healthy in my opinion.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 11:47AM by temp.

You only give contraindications to vegan and raw
never to cooked or animal products as panchito keeps trying to tell you.
you are virulently anti raw and vegan and biased against the purpose of the board
and will be forever blind to that.

U even continue to reference vegan studies even though I have explained to you
that unhealthy vegans with nutrient issues proves nothing.


regarding tsm and sue, I comment to what I see as bs the same as you.
once again that has nothing to do with your banning

I have been doing 801010 for 30 years so you are wrong again.
the fact that it has not been 100% ...I have been close enough to provide positive evidence for the fad diet.

I was doing it long before the book.


But you just keep ranting. Youre bitter and cynical because u wanted something and didnt get it.
get over it and get some perspective and stop insulting those who are doing it.

its just food.

Fresh i have talked about the contraindications of cooked and animal foods a number of times on here. Or any topic, i can be non bias about diet unlike yourself. I could care less about food, you view your diet as some sort of football team or religion which gives you justification to aggressively defend and support it.

Even check the honest question thread which sparked this banning, i speak about the increased risks of certain stomach cancers with high consumption of animal foods and link to heart disease with red meat. Toxic metals like mercury being abundant in some fish such as tuna.

SO don't talk out your ....



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 12:10PM by temp.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RawPracticalist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 25% raw is not enough raw for most but we
> respect
>
> Well thats the problem in question here RP, there
> is a radical minority of members which don't
> respect my choices and resort to the point of
> insulting.
>
> If people just accepted i have my opinion and that
> they have theirs. There would be no issue.
>
> The problem is that some are completely intolerant
> to different ideas. Doesn't even matter if they
> comply with raw or veganism. The sproutarians and
> high-fat raw foodists like Suez are no more
> welcome here than i am.
>
> Also as long as the majority of the diet is plant
> based and nutritionally complete/balanced, how
> much raw food you consume is irrelevant. 80% plant
> based diet is more than healthy in my opinion.

This forum is our virtual family
We need you powerlifter
And I think you need the forum
Just tell Prana you will follow the rules,
No need to leave.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 01:31PM by temp.

I am not an 80/10/10. I think you have me mistaken with someone else. But regardless, that doesn't change the fact that you violated the rules. You claim you had no choice but to do so. Uhm, you could have just not posted? Went for a walk? Ate an apple? Talked to a human in person? No choice? Riiighhhht. Talk about dogmatic.....

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not an 80/10/10. I think you have me
> mistaken with someone else. But regardless, that
> doesn't change the fact that you violated the
> rules. You claim you had no choice but to do so.
> Uhm, you could have just not posted? Went for a
> walk? Ate an apple? Talked to a human in person?
> No choice? Riiighhhht. Talk about dogmatic.....

Then have panchito or jr screaming at you for 5 pages that your diverting and not answering his questions.

cant win either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 01:30PM by temp.

If anyone is "crying" or "upset" here and needs a funny meme about it, it's you. How about "I was trolling forums and they didn't like it *tear*" "I keep violating the rules. I dunno why they so mad! *tear*"