The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > This conspiracy stuff is as old as the
> hills.
> > I've been hearing it since way before you were
> > born and it's all over the place so you don't
> have
> > to wait for tsm to find out about it, off
> topic,
> > here.


You "forgot" to include the link in the quote...

[www.bibliotecapleyades.net]



> Conspiracy eh?


Eh, yeah, by definition. The word conspiracy shares it's Latin root with the word spirit. The root word is Spirare. Conspiracy means to breath together as one.


> jtprindl: i'll get back to you privately about
> this hopefully within the next few days. I'll try
> not to write about it here because l can easily
> get carried away.

Thank you.

And lets not forget that these analysis of sprouts v's veggies are only a partial picture of the real goings on. There are no analysis of the enzymes and phytochemicals which would put the sprouts farrr ahead of the green veggies and fruits.

As has been said...when you have the FRESH green vegetable juices you get a moderate effect. When you have the weed juices you get a better effect. When you have the green sprout juices you get an even better effect. When you have the microgreen juices you get the best effect. This is no accident, and it is no accident that Dr Clement ranks the greens from veggies being the lowest, weeds being the second rank, green sprouts being the third rank and microgreens being the top rank.

It's important to not be mislead by the old outdated nutrition thinking, because plants are far more than vitamins and minerals.

So why are green sprouts having a more noticable effect on health giving properties? To me...it is not really the vitamins and minerals in these foods because some of the better green veggies can match them in vitamins and minerals, it must be something else going on. My guess is...it's the high level of enzymes and possibly phytochemicals in these green sprouts which is giving them the edge (most likely the enzymes imo). And low and behold, Dr Clement says that the enzymes in foods is a large part of the electrical frequency that a food gives off.

Many of the articles giving sprouts a poor rating are still stuck in the old nutritional mode of thinking in terms of vitamins and minerals. That is plant nutrition 101 thinking...extremely blinkered ways of seeing things, and it will no longer do. And these analysis never compare the sprouted seeds (the super vitamin/mineral foods), only the sprouted legume greens and vegetable seeds, so accurate presentations of a sprout diet can't be made, therefore these articles putting sprouts in a poor light are meaningless nonsense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 10:34AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And lets not forget that these analysis of sprouts
> v's veggies are only a partial picture of the real
> goings on. There are no analysis of the enzymes
> and phytochemicals which would put the sprouts
> farrr ahead of the green veggies and fruits.


And let's not forget that not only do we still only have a partial picture of what's going on in plant enzymes but that all the enzymes in the world of eaten sprouts can't hold a candle to the amount of enzymes humans require and manufacture internally and the scale of those processes require to work properly. No amount of sprout enzymes can prop up those systems with a patch up job.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No amount of sprout
> enzymes can prop up those systems with a patch up
> job.

True, but it appears that digestive enzyme supplementation in conjunction with sprout enzymes just might be able to prop up those systems. Herbert Howell may have been right all along.

Your Digestive Health with Viktoras Kulvinskas
[www.youtube.com]


Youthing and enzymes. Raw food with Viktoras Kulvinskas
[www.youtube.com]


Perhaps the finest health videos ever put on youtube.

www.thesproutarian.com

I was a member here long, long ago so this is not trolling...

Having said that, I have been lurking as of late and these sprout posts are bothering me. Viktoras and Ann Wigmore were the one's who motivated me to get into healthy eating back around the early 80's or so. Yet, I have noticed that all the promises of superhuman health did not pan out as expected, (Lovewisdom, Viktoras, Krok, TC Fry, Shelton etc.)

Why is Viktoras all but blind right now eating what is being said to be the healthiest diet available? Also, what about the death of his wife? Things seem incongruent...

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why is Viktoras all but blind right now eating
> what is being said to be the healthiest diet
> available? Also, what about the death of his wife?
> Things seem incongruent...


I don't remember his exact words but in one of the many videos Tsm has posted I recall Victoras blamed his wife's attitude on the reason for her death. As I recall he said something horrible like she hated life or something like that.

Not sure what Viktoras said but it doesn't matter how healthy one's diet is if they have a negative attitude or are constantly stressed/unhappy. Negative emotions have a negative effect on all the cells in the body, weakening the immune system and increasing body acidity.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was a member here long, long ago so this is not
> trolling...
>
> Having said that, I have been lurking as of late
> and these sprout posts are bothering me. Viktoras
> and Ann Wigmore were the one's who motivated me to
> get into healthy eating back around the early 80's
> or so. Yet, I have noticed that all the promises
> of superhuman health did not pan out as expected,
> (Lovewisdom, Viktoras, Krok, TC Fry, Shelton
> etc.)


I think there are some good examples of good alround health achieved by a sprouted diet. Bright vibrant spirits.



>
> Why is Viktoras all but blind right now eating
> what is being said to be the healthiest diet
> available?

Blind? Regarding his cataract and reports of a time with dimmed concentration like running through that red light once....personally, from what Vik has told me about his diet, he is not doing things in an optimal fashion. He has many sprouted beans, greens and grains, algaes, but he is not doing the sprouted seeds (especially the sprouted flax and chia), l think that is a big mistake. He has done sprouting for so long that he has gotten lax in his approach and let his guard down IMO.


>Also, what about the death of his wife?
> Things seem incongruent...


His wife had many emotional issues, was negative and did not eat a diet that was optimal. Here is Vik talking about his wife (I recall he talks about her near the end of the video):

[www.youtube.com]


---------

Some info from Dr Linney's thesis....

btw, vitamin C levels in sprouts can be greatly increased during germination by adding ascorbic acid to the seed soak or by adding various sugars. I am not saying to do that, but it shows we can control the end product of the food where-as we can't when we buy produce from farmers....we can tailor the food more to our needs somewhat. Adding ascorbic acid can also increase yield with a more beefy sprout.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 07:57PM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> [www.youtube.com]
> 0agng9OL_sJ1R4us8Gtwsg


Oh that's right. How could I forget that his advantage over her, even though he says they were both troubled, was that he had long earlobes and she didn't.

Can't make what falls out of the horse's mouth up and sound any bat @#$%& crazier than what he says.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 07:59PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he had long earlobes and
> she didn't.
>

The earlobe thing is supposed to be an ancient technique used. The bigger the lobe, the stronger the heart, wider the arteries and stronger the constitution. That is the theory.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 08:03PM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > he had long earlobes and
> > she didn't.
> >
>
> The earlobe thing is supposed to be an ancient
> technique used. The bigger the lobe, the stronger
> the heart, wider the arteries and stronger the
> constitution. That is the theory.


So blindly taking ancient "techniques", based on two modern people's outcomes, when you are one of them, and talking like it's true, is not bat @#$%& crazy?! Like I said. You can't make this stuff up...

enjoying the info on sprouts
thanks sproutman and jtprindl
for this interesting dialogue

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> enjoying the info on sprouts
> thanks sproutman and jtprindl
> for this interesting dialogue


I am glad. I'll post some interesting observations from Dr Linney's 70 page research thesis soon. Much of his stuff is old hat, but it does have good value. I'll post some observations of the general nutrient increase patterns of the B vitamins of legumes v's grains, which can help one appreciate the enhanced effects of combining various grains with legumes in a meal. Other interesting things will be posted also.

Lots of sprouting nutrition charts in his thesis, but still nothing on the sprouted seeds. None-the-less, l have a very rare sprouted sesame seed chart somewhere (posted it here once and haven't been able to find it since - sometimes l will get up in the middle of the night to try and find it in my notes), but still no sprouted sunflower seed kernel chart or chia sprout chart. However, we can look at the comparisons with the potent sesame sprouts and can bring some general theories forth about what may happen to the sunflower and chia sprouts to cover the gaps in knowledge here (it's far from perfect, but it's the best we can do at the moment). I have a basic chart on chia nutrition (very interesting)...so while some gaps will be very sketchy regarding the seeds, other gaps will be filled better.

We'll get there slowly, but it is hard work. Many of the studies aren't online and are almost impossible to locate in libraries and via electronic devices. It can take hours and hours of searching and cost decent sums of money for both the study and adminstration costs, so l need to strike and get them all in one go to keep costs down.

The thing is....if l just quote books who report the studies l will have people saying "how do you know they quoted the studies...they could be making it all up", so l need to put such magpie talk to bed and provide proof of the studies.

I will continue to search for sprouted seed info online, but it is like finding a needle in a haystack. It sometimes means reading through loads of crazy boring irrelevant studies to find one small piece of gold. But if it's not done people will continue with the magpie chatter and it will never cease. As l said, it's time to put such talk to bed once and for all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2014 12:40AM by The Sproutarian Man.

New adventures in sprouting

Ordered my first ever sproutable pumpkin seeds, so l am pretty excited about that. However they have an extremely poor phosphorous - calcium ratio which means l will need to order the Hydrilla green algae to counterbalance the diet properly.

Have also bought my first buckwheat groats for sprouting. Can't wait to start the process tonight.

The bad news is that my regular supplier of sunflower kernels and shell seeds had a crop failure so nothing is available until November. None-the-less...other sources have been located thank goodness.

Can't wait to try the Hydrilla, pumpkin seed sprouts and buckwheat groat sprouts. Very exciting. Trying new foods always is exciting.




Suez - how is the Hydrilla going?

never done hydrilla
what do you like about it the most

Are the sprouts a bunch of hype and not nutritious? I say not

After one month of trying to find the link, l eventually found the link on one of the big boys of nutrition...the sesame seed sprout.

Vitamin E
100 grams of broccoli = (about .8mg tops)
[nutritiondata.self.com]

100 grams of spinach = 2.03 mg
[ndb.nal.usda.gov]

100 grams of wheat sprouts = .05 mg

100 grams of alfalfa sprouts = .02 mg

Does this mean that sprouts are not nutritious? NO!!! It just means we need to eat certain sprouts to get an overall high nutrient diet.

Look what happens when we eat sesame seed sprouts.

100 grams of sprouted sesame = 32 mg!!!!!
alpha-tocopherol (32 mg/100 g), the most active form of vitamin E


Calcium
100 grams of broccoli = 58 mg
[nutritiondata.self.com]

100 grams of spinach = (roughly) 48 mg

100 grams of sprouted sesame = 462 - 1067 mg!!!!! (studies at bottom of page)


Magnesium
100 grams of broccoli = (roughly) 23 mg

100 grams of spinach = 39 mg

100 grams of sesame seeds = 369 mg




Are you still telling me that sprouts are not nutritious? Do you think the highly nutritious poppy, sunflower and chia sprouts are going to be any different?...do you really think those powerhouses are going to be of poor nutrition??? I think not. Don't believe the internet hype!!!

AND....sesame, sunflower, poppy and chia are excellent sources of B vitamins by themselves, and we know that when we sprout something that many of the B vitamins multiply by many times, so what do you think it is going to do to a sprouted seed already rich in B vitamins? Well...it is going to make it a virtual vitamin and mineral treasure-trove of high nutrient goodness.

Effects of germination on chemical composition and functional properties of sesame (Sesamum indicum L.) seeds

Hahm TS, Park SJ, Martin Lo Y
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

EFFECTS OF SESAME SEEDS GERMINATION ON PHYTATE DEGRADATION, IN VITRO NUTRIENT DIGESTIBILITY AND PLASMA LIPID PROFILE IN RATS

Krzysztof ?y?a, Magdalena Mika
[www.ejpau.media.pl]

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2014 08:29AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The sprouts will always walk tall. Combine a sprout diet well and you'll get the highest minerals, vitamins, phytochemicals, fatty acids, enzymes, phytohormone and predigested proteins of any diet possible in the world.

Are the sprouts all hype and not nutritious? Not on your life! Those sesame sprout links provide a small insight into the fireworks behind the sprouts. And lets not forget, l provided a study recently that mention the phytochemicals in those so called un-nutritious vegetable sprouts have between 10 - 100 times the phytochemicals of the mature vegetable counterpart. And according to Mr Shepard and the Ann Wigmore Institute the enzyme levels get up to 100 times higher oin sprouts also.

Then there was this little sweet bit l found the other month (can't find the study yet, but Dr Micheal Gregor mentioned it):

We’ve known that baby spinach leaves, for example, have higher levels of phytonutrients than mature spinach leaves, but what about really baby spinach–just a week or two old?

Microgreens won hands down (leaves down?), possessing significantly higher nutrient densities than mature leaves. For example, red cabbage microgreens have a 6-fold higher vitamin C concentration than mature red cabbage and 69 times the vitamin K

<<<Calcium
100 grams of sprouted sesame = 462 - 1067 mg!!!!! (studies at bottom of page)>>>


100 grams of unhulled and unsprouted sesame seeds = 1160 mg!!!!!!!!!!

Sesame Seeds have more CALCIUM without spouting!!!

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
>
> 100 grams of unhulled and unsprouted sesame seeds
> = 1160 mg!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Sesame Seeds have more CALCIUM without spouting!!!

That's true, but is that higher calcium level more bioavailable and optimal? Highly unlikely. This is what the study said:

In the in vitro digestion model, germination of sesame seeds improved digestibility of phosphorus, calcium, magnesium and carbohydrates

But that being said, this measurement is based on the old thinking that phytic acids impede calcium absorption. It does, but not over the long term because the body can make adjustments. BUT....



When you sprout sesame you break down ingestible cellulose via cellulase enzymes , you also break down the highly menacing indigestable proteins like lectins, you also reduce the IP5 and 6 phytic acids very slightly and would also reduce oxalic acid (the oxalic acid and phytics acids are good, but you don't want too much of them in the diet imo), you also help break down various protease inhibitors, alpha-amylase inhibitors, tannins, aflatoxins and would reduce fat levels by roughly 20% (I have another study which shows this for various sprouted oil seeds).

Note: when you sprout various minerals increase while others decrease. It is known that some minerals convert to other minerals. This seems strange, but it is said to be the case. It's not such a bad thing...bioavailability and ease of digestion is one of the points of sprouting. And when you combine it with kelp you can greatly improve the meal by making it even more digestable because various sulfated polysacharide sugars like fucose and mannose chelate with indigestable proteins stopping their anti-nutrient and organ damaging functions along with various enzymes from the brown seaweeds breaking down various anti-nutrient/calcium chelators even further.

Also if you combine sprouted sesame with sprouted flax you may also be able to break down cyanide in the flax because the high methionine content of sesame helps do this. + you get higher vitamin content with sprouted sesame over unsprouted sesame. Overall the trade off of calcium is a worthwhile one.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2014 07:46PM by The Sproutarian Man.

Tsm "Note: when you sprout various minerals increase while others decrease."


The calcium probably falls off when the hulls do when they are sprouted since it's in the hulls where a lot of the calcium resides in sesame seeds.

Tsm "It is known that some minerals convert to other minerals. This seems strange, but it is said to be the case.


Did someone actually say that the calcium in sesame seeds morphs into another mineral when the seeds are sprouted? Is this more magical mystery lab HI stuff or something?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tsm "Note: when you sprout various minerals
> increase while others decrease."
>
>
> The calcium probably falls off when the hulls do
> when they are sprouted since it's in the hulls
> where a lot of the calcium resides in sesame
> seeds.
>
> Tsm "It is known that some minerals convert
> to other minerals. This seems strange, but it is
> said to be the case.
>
>
> Did someone actually say that the calcium in
> sesame seeds morphs into another mineral when the
> seeds are sprouted? Is this more magical mystery
> lab HI stuff or something?


Lets look at this analysis again:

Effects of germination on chemical composition and functional properties of sesame (Sesamum indicum L.) seeds

Hahm TS, Park SJ, Martin Lo Y
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Phosphorous increases. Sodium increases.


Had a quick look at Dr Linney's thesis, and according to him the various minerals go up and down according to the water the seeds are soaked in. Some waters lack certain minerals in good amounts so they can leach those various minerals from the seeds, while other contents in the waters are high in various minerals and will increase the mineral contents. I recall a study which showed alfalfa sprouts increasing calcium 200% over the sprouted seed and zinc almost 400% over the sprouted seed. I wouldn't have thought soak water could have such a powerful effect on the outcome of seeds, but this seems to be the case.

Dr Linney's research makes sense and l will push that reasoning. The other science talk that minerals appear out of thin air does sound illogical.

Best to soak seeds in highly mineralised water.

www.thesproutarian.com

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Best to soak seeds in highly mineralised water.

Kelp soak water.

*kelp also has growth hormones in it so it's also great for growing microgreens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2014 10:33PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Best to soak seeds in highly mineralised water.
>
> Kelp soak water.
>
> *kelp also has growth hormones in it so it's also
> great for growing microgreens.


Yes.

Dr Linney also mentions that soaking sprouts in ascorbic acid noticably increases sprout growth and robustness. I recall it can increase robustness in sprouts up to 30%.

Another interesting thing l read a while back was that irradiation of sprouts greatly oxidises vitamin C and converts it to something far less desirable. So if it is doing that, what is it doing to the oilseeds like sesame and poppy?

Something l need to find out for sure is whether the algaes and seaweeds are being irradiated by customs. Are the HHI probiotics, enzymes and B12 supplements from HHI being irradiated In Australia?

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > Best to soak seeds in highly mineralised
> water.
> >
> > Kelp soak water.
> >
> > *kelp also has growth hormones in it so it's
> also
> > great for growing microgreens.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Dr Linney also mentions that soaking sprouts in
> ascorbic acid noticably increases sprout growth
> and robustness. I recall it can increase
> robustness in sprouts up to 30%.

I bet a drop or two of fulvic acid would work even better. Haven't tried it yet.


> Another interesting thing l read a while back was
> that irradiation of sprouts greatly oxidises
> vitamin C and converts it to something far less
> desirable. So if it is doing that, what is it
> doing to the oilseeds like sesame and poppy?
>
> Something l need to find out for sure is whether
> the algaes and seaweeds are being irradiated by
> customs. Are the HHI probiotics, enzymes and B12
> supplements from HHI being irradiated In
> Australia?

One company I deal with in the US puts stickers on their shipping boxes that say something like "Live organic food, do not irradiate under penalty of (some law or other I can't remember)" Maybe you can convince HHI to invest in some of those stickers if they aren't using them already.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> One company I deal with in the US puts stickers
> on their shipping boxes that say something like
> "Live organic food, do not irradiate under penalty
> of (some law or other I can't remember)" Maybe you
> can convince HHI to invest in some of those
> stickers if they aren't using them already.

Thankyou for the tip. I will look into it. Can you please tell me the name of the company so l can contact them and look into the legal side. Will this law apply to Australian customs?...unlikely because the seeds will cross international borders where-as in the U.S it doesn't.


Australian customs are one of the most ruthless in the world, they are brutal. I know one company that paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get sesame seeds through customs and will never do it again because it took 4 months and LOADS of complicated paperwork, and they had to send the seeds from Sth America to a special lab in Nth America and then transport them to Australia. It's crazy what we need to do over here.

I've looked at importing seeds and the paperwork and tecnicalities are immense and very very costly and could still end up in the products being irradiated.

I will do an experiment soon. I am going to buy some seeds from amazon and see if they get irradiated. I bet they will, but we'll see. No-one has been able to give me a definite answer, and simple customs enquiries take all day because you need to contact numerous customs people ans wait on hold for ages.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > One company I deal with in the US puts
> stickers
> > on their shipping boxes that say something like
> > "Live organic food, do not irradiate under
> penalty
> > of (some law or other I can't remember)" Maybe
> you
> > can convince HHI to invest in some of those
> > stickers if they aren't using them already.
>
> Thankyou for the tip. I will look into it. Can you
> please tell me the name of the company so l can
> contact them and look into the legal side. Will
> this law apply to Australian customs?...unlikely
> because the seeds will cross international borders
> where-as in the U.S it doesn't.
>
>
> Australian customs are one of the most ruthless in
> the world, they are brutal. I know one company
> that paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get
> sesame seeds through customs and will never do it
> again because it took 4 months and LOADS of
> complicated paperwork, and they had to send the
> seeds from Sth America to a special lab in Nth
> America and then transport them to Australia. It's
> crazy what we need to do over here.
>
> I've looked at importing seeds and the paperwork
> and tecnicalities are immense and very very costly
> and could still end up in the products being
> irradiated.
>
> I will do an experiment soon. I am going to buy
> some seeds from amazon and see if they get
> irradiated. I bet they will, but we'll see. No-one
> has been able to give me a definite answer, and
> simple customs enquiries take all day because you
> need to contact numerous customs people ans wait
> on hold for ages.

You're dealing with people who don't know the ropes and you will probably have to pay a bit more upfront to deal with competent business people you can rely on to get things done.

There are many US companies that ship internationally that can get things done properly and you might be better off dealing with them. I'm sure, if you talk to the right people, you can work something out. If you can offer them an expansion in their market they can feel confident in, you're golden.

I'm linking the company with the stickers. They are not cheap but they are competent. They do say they ship internationally but I just clicked on their link for that and it didn't work. I guess you'll have to email them for sticker info. If you have any problems let me know and I'll call them for you.

[shop.goldminenaturalfoods.com]

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There are many US companies that ship
> internationally that can get things done properly
> and you might be better off dealing with them. I'm
> sure, if you talk to the right people, you can
> work something out. If you can offer them an
> expansion in their market they can feel confident
> in, you're golden.


Wow, that is great to know.

>
> I'm linking the company with the stickers. They
> are not cheap but they are competent. They do say
> they ship internationally but I just clicked on
> their link for that and it didn't work. I guess
> you'll have to email them for sticker info. If you
> have any problems let me know and I'll call them
> for you.
>
> [shop.goldminenaturalfoods.com]

Thankyou very much for this, l am greatful. And thankyou for your kind offer of being prepared to make a phone call, but l can view the international shipping info and will email shortly.

If these people can come through for me they will be the people l will promote and work with.

Anything is cheap compared to my country. I enquired about importing 100 pound of sesame in and it would have cost thousands in fees and still likely to end in radiated seeds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 12:20AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Does anyone know companies that can get red clover and broccoli sprouting seeds through customs and ship internationally?

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know companies that can get red clover
> and broccoli sprouting seeds through customs and
> ship internationally?


Have you checked with [sproutpeople.org]?

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know companies that can get red clover
> and broccoli sprouting seeds through customs and
> ship internationally?


Well you are in luck. Not only does Johnny's have a fabulous selection of sprout seeds I just checked and they ship internationally.

Five pages of sprout seeds...

[www.johnnyseeds.com]


Three pages of micro green seeds. (Why not supply upscale restaurants with rare sprouts while you're at it to defray costs?)...

[www.johnnyseeds.com]

Four pages of organic herbs...

[www.johnnyseeds.com]

I'd recommend throwing in at least a packet of these Kakai seeds. Yep, Johnny's has the good ones!

[www.johnnyseeds.com]

I love Johnny's. They are even employee owned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 01:44AM by SueZ.