"I have yet to see a single credible source which concludes that raw fats (nuts, seeds, coconut, extra-virgin oils) are high in AGE's."

It's truly a jaw dropper, for me, that for some reason no matter how many times we say it this fact remains invisible to this community even though it's generally acknowledged that studies which don't test raw fruits and vegetables don't apply to those in the findings. What can illuminate this huge blind spot in the raw food world? It's crazy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 01:21PM by SueZ.

"I have yet to see a single credible source which concludes that raw fats (nuts, seeds, coconut, extra-virgin oils) are high in AGE's."

The simpler question is what makes a 64 percent raw fat diet good?

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have yet to see a single credible source which
> concludes that raw fats (nuts, seeds, coconut,
> extra-virgin oils) are high in AGE's."
>
> The simpler question is what makes a 64 percent
> raw fat diet good?


For another thing, in addition to the others I've listed, it seems to help with memory retention, comprehension, and tracking. Something you might want to look into for that alone.

Why does it seem to help with memory retention?

What about other long term consequences?

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does it seem to help with memory retention?
>
> What about other long term consequences?

It's high time you learned how to do you own homework. v

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have yet to see a single credible source which
> concludes that raw fats (nuts, seeds, coconut,
> extra-virgin oils) are high in AGE's."
>
> The simpler question is what makes a 64 percent
> raw fat diet good?


Ketosis has many benefits but it's not about fat/protein/carb percentage which determines if a diet is healthy or unhealthy. Gabriel Cousens states that most people do well on either high-fat or high-protein and only a small percentage of the population does well on high-carb. However, there are many cultures who eat high-carb and have long lifespans with little disease. The commonalities? They eat a very high plant-based diet, gets lots of sunlight and connection with nature, moderately exercise, and live low-stress lives. When Gabriel refers to high-carb, however, he may just be referring to the raw community who are going to be getting the majority of their carbs from fruit as opposed to sweet potatoes, vegetables, and grains. The Okinawan's, for example, eat a high-carb diet but low-fruit. Anyways, the differences between a raw high-fat diet and a cooked high-fat SAD diet (such as the Atkins diet) are astronomical. It's funny, though, I'm sure a lot of raw foodists bashing raw high-fat diets have never even attempted them and have always been low-fat because this is what has been pounded into their brain ever since going raw by the likes of Douglas Graham and his followers.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 04:02PM by jtprindl.

If I need a 64 percent raw fat diet for memory then there is something wrong with me or with nature.
I can understand for people who are sick and need a correction but normal people should survive on local and every day food withoug waiting for olive oil to be cold pressed.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I need a 64 percent raw fat diet for memory
> then there is something wrong with me


You are not comprehending my posts on the subject at all. I've told you many times why I turned to high fat and why I am glad I did yet you seem impervious. I can't help you with that but maybe more fat could. You've taken up enough of my time. If you must continue to troll someone find someone else. I find your questions and comments disingenuous.

more PROOF for the BLIND people

The advanced glycation end product (AGE) content of 549 foods: [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

AGE ku/100grams Serving size (g) AGE kU/serving

Fats
Almonds, blanched slivered (Bazzini’s Nut Club, Bronx, NY) 5,473 30 1,642
Almonds, roasted 6,650 30 1,995
Avocado 1,577 30 473
Butter, whippedb 26,480 5 1,324
Butter, sweet cream, unsalted, whipped (Land O’Lakes, St Paul, MN) 23,340 5 1,167
Cashews, raw (Bazzini’s Nut Club) 6,730 30 2,019
Cashews, roasted 9,807 30 2,942
Chestnut, raw 2,723 30 817
Chestnut, roasted, in toaster oven 350°F for 27 min 5,353 30 1,606
Cream cheese, Philadelphia soft, (Kraft, Northfield, IL) 10,883 30 3,265
Cream cheese, Philadelphia original (Kraft) 8,720 30 2,616
Margarine, tub 17,520 5 876
Margarine, tub, I Can’t Believe it’s Not Butter (Unilever, Rotterdam, The Netherlands) 9,920 5 496
Margarine, tub, Smart Balance (CFA Brands, Heart Beat Foods, Paramus, NJ) 6,220 5 311
Margarine, tub, Take Control (Unilever Best Foods) 4,000 5 200
Mayonnaise 9,400 5 470
Mayonnaise, imitation (Diet Source, Novartis Nutriton Group, East Hanover, NJ) 200 5 10
Mayonnaise, low fat (Hellman’s, Unilever Best Foods) 2,200 5 110
Olive, ripe, large (5 g) 1,670 30 501
Peanut butter, smooth, Skippy (Unilever) 7,517 30 2,255
Peanuts, cocktail (Planters, Kraft) 8,333 30 2,500
Peanuts, dry roasted, unsalted (Planters, Kraft) 6,447 30 1,934
Peanuts, roasted in shell, salted (Frito-Lay, Plano, TX) 3,440 30 1,032
Pine nuts (pignolias), raw (Bazzini’s Nut Club) 11,210 30 3,363
Pistachios, salted (Frito Lay) 380 30 114
Pumpkin seeds, raw, hulled (House of Bazzini, Bronx, NY) 1,853 30 556
Soybeans, roasted and salted (House of Bazzini) 1,670 30 501
Sunflower seeds, raw, hulled (House of Bazzini) 2,510 30 753
Sunflower seeds, roasted and salted (House of Bazzini) 4,693 30 1,408
Tartar Sauce, creamy (Kraft) 247 15 37
Walnuts, roasted 7,887 30 2,366

Oil, canola 9,020 5 451
Oil, corn 2,400 5 120
Oil, cottonseed (The B Manischewitz Company, Cincinnati, OH) 8,520 5 426
Oil, diaglycerol, Enova (ADM Kao LLC, Decatur, IL) 10,420 5 521
Oil, olive 11,900 5 595
Oil, olive, extra virgin, first cold pressed (Colavita, Linden, NJ) 10,040 5 502
Oil, peanut (Planters) 11,440 5 572
Oil, safflower (The Hain Celestial Group, Inc, Melville, NY) 3,020 5 151
Oil, sesame (Asian Gourmet) 21,680 5 1084
Oil, sunflower (The Hain Celestial Group, Inc) 3,940 5 197

COMPARE WITH LOW FRUIT

Apple, baked 45 100 45
Apple, Macintosh 13 100 13
Banana 9 100 9
Cantaloupe 20 100 20
Coconut cream, Coco Goya cream of coconut (Goya, Secaucus, NJ) 933 15 140
Coconut milk, leche de coco, (Goya) 307 15 46
Coconut, Baker’s Angel Flake, sweetened (Kraft) 590 30 177
Dates, Sun-Maid California chopped (Sun-Maid, Kingsburg, CA) 60 30 18
Fig, dried 2,663 30 799
Plums, Sun-Maid dried pitted prunes (Sun-Maid) 167 30 50
Raisin, from Post Raisin Bran (Kellogg Co) 120 30 36



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 04:29PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
<cut and pasted chart someone else made>

...old crap study from June 2010 with bolded overly processed cheap crap oil as the only point in someone else's work. As usual. Meaningless.

Suez, thank you for being such a great teacher. Everybody can see now how losing looks like.

What country are you from? I've always wondered.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suez, thank you for being such a great teacher.
> Everybody can see now how losing looks like.

"Oil, olive, extra virgin, first cold pressed (Colavita, Linden, NJ) 10,040 5 502"

Once again does not specify whether the testing was done on raw or cooked olive oil. There's loads of scientific evidence proving the health benefits of consuming extra-virgin olive oil. There's clearly much more to the picture than simply looking at AGE's contained within foods, such as how those certain foods break down within the body and protective factors within one's diet. There are so many factors involved in how AGE's potentially affect health - [circ.ahajournals.org]. Why is the vegetarian diet linked to higher AGE's than an omnivorous diet? It seems like the major contributors to dietary AGE formation is the combination of sugars with fats & proteins and cooking.

As far as some of those seeds go... pasteurized, steamed, gassed, etc. seeds can still be considered "raw" by law. You can heat-treat nuts/seeds to not only remove their shell but also to kill any potential harmful bacteria.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 06:55PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Oil, olive, extra virgin, first cold pressed
> (Colavita, Linden, NJ) 10,040 5 502"
>
> Once again does not specify whether the testing
> was done on raw or cooked olive oil.

And how much raw can it get than COLD PRESS? Does it have to specify the brand/bottle you use so that you finally get it?

Also, there's evidence which shows that most AGE's formed are immediately excreted through urine.

[blog.cholesterol-and-health.com]

"Dietary Sources of AGEs

The available evidence suggests that we do absorb certain AGEs from the intestinal tract, but almost immediately begin peeing them out. As a result, dietary AGEs are unlikely to contribute meaningfully to the pool of AGEs circulating in our bodies at any given moment.

The most common AGEs in foods that have been measured so far are pyrraline and methylglyoxal-derived hydroimidazolone-1 (1). Yikes! Try to say that three times fast. To make it a little easier, we'll call that latter compound MG-H1.

This group recently published several studies using tissue cultures that mimic the human intestinal lining providing further evidence for the absorption of pyralline and some other AGEs (3, 4). These studies suggested that pyrraline is absorbed when it is present as a dipeptide (two amino acids linked together), but once the cell takes up the dipeptide it splits it in half and releases free pyrraline into the bloodstream. The group also studied its interaction with kidney cells and concluded that pyrraline is likely to be rapidly excreted into the urine. When they previously looked for pyrraline in the blood of people who had been eating their usual diets, they couldn't find any (5).

Although we can't rule out with complete certainty the possibility that some pyrraline is absorbed and decomposes into some other compound that hangs around in our bodies, experiments with laboratory animals show that even when we inject the animals with radioactively labeled AGEs, almost all of the radioactive label disappears into the urine within two hours (6). The most logical conclusion at the moment is that pyrraline absorbed from food just doesn't hang around in the body for very long.

The same tissue culture studies that suggested pyrraline makes its way from the gut into the bloodstream also suggested that our intestinal cells absorb a small amount of MG-H1 and tightly hang on to it. Generally these cells last less than a week before they slough off and get taken out the other end with the trash, so these experiments would suggest that MG-H1 is excreted in the feces rather than absorbed.

When we consider that pyrraline is absorbed from food but not present in the bloodstream while MG-H1 appears not to be absorbed from food but is nevertheless abundant in the bloodstream (7), and when we consider the evidence below that as long as our kidneys are working we quickly pee out most free AGEs regardless of where they come from, we have to conclude at least for the time being that most AGEs within our body at any given moment DO NOT COME FROM FOOD."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 07:07PM by jtprindl.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Oil, olive, extra virgin, first cold pressed
> > (Colavita, Linden, NJ) 10,040 5 502"
> >
> > Once again does not specify whether the testing
> > was done on raw or cooked olive oil.
>
> And how much raw can it get than COLD PRESS? Does
> it have to specify the brand/bottle you use so
> that you finally get it?


Because they could've tested it after it was cooked...

I could post some studies but l couldn't be bothered anymnore. I will save them for my site.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could post some studies but l couldn't be
> bothered anymnore. I will save them for my site.

I'm hearing you. Good idea.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could post some studies but l couldn't be
> bothered anymnore. I will save them for my site.


Looking forward to them

In the US the term "cold-pressed" for oils is a garbage can term as it can mean any temperature <400 F. Hardly raw.

After using coconut oils for two months now,
I have to say that it does not add any significant value to my diet.
I guess every food has some oils and extra oils may not be needed.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> most AGEs within our body at any given moment DO
> NOT COME FROM FOOD."

Wrong, again.


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Calorie-restricted mice on a high AGE diet didn't
live as long as ad libitum fed mice on a low AGE
diet. The AGEs did indeed come from food.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > most AGEs within our body at any given moment
> DO
> > NOT COME FROM FOOD."
>
> Wrong, again.
>
>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
> 4/pdf/JPATH170001893.pdf
>
>
> Calorie-restricted mice on a high AGE diet didn't
> live as long as ad libitum fed mice on a low AGE
> diet. The AGEs did indeed come from food.


Take it up with Dr. Chris Masterjohn, who by the ways knows much more than you do. Also, AGE's are not the end all be all when it comes to aging and there are a variety of factors that come into play, such as how effective one's diet is at neutralizing and eliminating AGE's.

If he is telling people to eat more cholesterol and saturated fat to be healthy, he does not know much, unless he is trying to sell something that he knows they want to her.

If you are so keen on cholesterol, why are you participating on a vegan forum?

"If you are so keen on cholesterol, why are you participating on a vegan forum?"


Cholesterol doesn't narrow the arteries, inflammation does. When blood becomes too thick, it abrades the walls at the branch points of the arteries, causing inflammation. Cholesterol is partially a response to cardiovascular inflammation. Without inflammation, cholesterol would move freely throughout the body, but when there's cardiovascular inflammation, cholesterol tries to help repair the damage. It can be a predictor of heart disease because it means you are inflamed but it is NOT the cause. Furthermore, the increased thickness results in greater levels of friction as it moves through the arteries. The pressure caused by the continued friction of thick blood begins to erode the endothelium, causing calluses which make it even more difficult for blood to flow properly. Neither high cholesterol or saturated fat has anything to do with heart disease.

Your risk of heart disease is not determined by total cholesterol but rather the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL. You can have what is considered a very high total cholesterol, but if your HDL is high enough to provide a healthy ratio (around 3.5), you are not any likely to get heart disease.

I'm glad u started a new thread. !!! The arrogant people in the other 1 were going on and on and not really talking about coconut oil and health benefits. Get straight to the point !!!

Why is that the oil that is naturally presents in every food is not enough?
How long the first humans waited for scientific research to start to eat?
I thought we were born with common sense



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 09:06AM by RawPracticalist.

What about the raw versus cooked coconut oil, could that be influencing the study?
Suez I see you asked the same question...thats synchronicity.

Suez, moms complain alot when we help them. DOnt they