The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I believe Dr Jubb is deceptive, dangerous and
> full of nonsense. Many people fell under his spell
> and still do.


Then why do you post his stuff here as worthy of listening to? And also, since this is the conclusion you've come to why did you say you have a soft spot for him? I took that as an encouragement to listen to his babble.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Then why do you post his stuff here as worthy
> of listening to?

He does bring up good information on anti nutrients (indigestable proteins and many other things), organic acids, bacterias and interesting theories on hybridisation. He has definitely got some good stuff.





>And also, since this is the
> conclusion you've come to why did you say you have
> a soft spot for him?

I feel Jubb is a good man at heart, but he has lost his way with temptation. I like his general eccentric manner and some of his unique thinking on plants.




>I took that as an
> encouragement to listen to his babble.

I still would, some of his stuff does have good value. From memory these two links were quite good. It's a different perspective on raw foods that is worth thinking about. These videos had a big influenece on me....it lead to over one thousand hours of study on anti-nutrients/fermentation which then set a cornerstone in my diet recommendations....it made me go back to my original diet ways and it has worked a treat.

Dr. David Jubb, phD on: LIFE FOOD for a Sustainable Future
[www.youtube.com]

Dr. David Jubb, phD on: Brain of the gut #2
[www.youtube.com]


Dr Jubb enabled me to come out of Dr Clement's shadow and start promoting my own type of diet and be independant of anyone else. I don't rely on any other raw food leader to say the things l do now...the base of my diet plan all comes from my own research and thinking. Of course HHI has had a big influenece, and l do like to regularly draw them into things to give people different viewpoints, but my explanations are quite different to Dr Brian's or anyone elses....my perspective is unique, and Dr Jubb's influence helped me be able to break out from the shadows so l can make my own unique contribution. The type of talks Dr Brian, sproutman and kulvinskas talk is going to be completely different to how l am going to talk...the facts l bring up will be completely different and much less pseudoscience than those guys. In my talks l wouldn't bring up most of the stuff they talk about, l will say things my way and bring up completely different ideas. I will back my claims with studies, use common sense and bring a new perspective to raw foods and bring new people into the sproutartian lifestyle. There is no point regurgitating what everyone else says....we need to forge our own way.


There are new perspectives to be brought out into the raw food world, and now it's time to raise the bar. Lets use more science, more commoin sense and stop presenting fantasy thinking as fact. AND...lets be a friend of the people, that means, lets drop the ego and stop trying to come across as experts...lets be honest with what we know and what we don't, and lets be careful to specify science from theory. Lets move poisitively into the future and stop insulting people's intelligence...that way doesn't work anymore because the internet now allows false gurus to be exposed. The fake gurus used to be able to get away with presenting fancy theories as fact before the internet days, but those days have gone. LETS GET REAL!!!...and l tell you what Suez, l AM going to get real, because that's what people want. People want to trust people again and know people have their best interests at heart, and by golly gee, l am going to do my best to live my life like that....to live it how Ann Wigmore did...with integrity.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2014 01:40AM by The Sproutarian Man.

"Well good but if you aspire to be a leader you might want to consider that I am not the only one who doesn't think drinking urine is an example of common sense"

You say this as if it actually means anything.

You all might want to see the stuff that is going to be presented on smart meters, mobile phones, cordless phones and i-phones soon. The science will be presented, the solutions will be presented, and a video of the testing of EMF's from cordless phones v's no cordless phones etc will be presented so you can see it and hear it with your own ears and eyes. You are going to be shocked. My house was full of EMF static (especially the cordless phone), but now it is almost silent of EMF static waves....you can't fake this stuff.

Everyone Mr Kearns has been showing and teaching has got rid off all their cordless phones and have been fixing the smart meter to block radiation into the house and from getting EMF transfer from other houses.

Even the new age light bulbs are full of measureable radiation. You need LED or the old style bulbs. Lots of important stuff will be talked about.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We are thought to be a bunch of dills because many
> raw vegans are dills because they follow dills


Btw, dills includes myself in the group. You know why we have been dills?...because we haven't forced our raw food leaders to do much better by pulling them up and making them accountable for what they say. It's o.k if you specify fact from theory, but if gurus say everything like it is a fact then people need to pull them up in talks, expose them and ask for the science. If the gurus lose their temper, it speaks vomumes and you can use this to further pull the rug from under them. We have been treated like dills for too long, and now it's time we exposed these leaders and made them back up their statements if they try to state certain debatable things as facts.

Lets get the fake gurus on film being pulled up so we can post a bunch of things online so we can cause them to lose credibility so we can weed them all out once and for all. If you have nothing to hide and have credibility you won't have a problem, but if you are a fake guru out of their depth you will be exposed and sunk. I think that's fair.

This is a review from tripadvisor on HHI, again its anecdotal so we can only really take it at arms length because who knows if its real. But still interesting and typical of what i hear of many retreats. What im wary of is Brian Clement claiming he can cure incurable cancers. There is no scientific proof his program can cure anything, let alone these diseases.

Quote

My husband stayed at Hippocrates Health Center in oktober 2012. He travelled there from Amsterdam because he had just been given a diagnosis of stage 4 stomach-cancer. Because regular health care could not offer curative treatment, he looked for an alternative. Before he left he had a telephone call with the director of Hippocrates, dr. Brian Clement. Dr. Clement convinced my husband that a raw food diet, combined with all the treatments at the institute could cure him. So he went and payed over 9000 euro's for his stay, additional;, very expensive treatments and all kinds of pills and substitutes. He stayed in one of the cheapest rooms, of campus. Jolene Jackson advised him to do so. When staying there he regretted this. He had cancer and was often tired. Staying of campus costed him extra energy. If you have cancer. at Hippocrates you can only eat raw green food, everyday garlic and no fruit. My husband lost 15 kilo's, If you have cancer you are not supposed to loose so much weight, you need everything you have. Although the staff is very friendly, you are very much on your own at Hippocrates. My husband missed very much a health professional who would help him and advice him which treatments would be best in his situation. He had to make his own plan. Which is difficult, when you are ill, you are staying off campus, you are only there for 3 weeks and you don't know what to do and what is best for you...and nobody is telling you. He took very expensive vitamine IV's from a dr. Cheng. He - and all the other patients that week -had bad luck, because the IV's (that are prepared locally) he and the other patients got, appeared to have turned bad. My husband got very, very sick of them. Obviously there is not enough control on what individual doctors do at Hippocrates. These people are not on the paylist, but hire a 'practice' at the institute. Dr. Brian and his wife dr. Anna Clement (both owner/directors of Hippocrates advise their patients during consults to take certain treatments. My husband was strongly advised by them to go to dr. Cheng. When my husband arrived on the Amsterdam airport back from Hippocrates, we had to rush him to hospital. His bloodcount had dropped so bad, he needed a blood- IV immediately. Hippocrates just does not offer enough medical support. If you have a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, find treatment elsewhere. My husband came back from Hippocrates in a far worse health then he had when he went there. He died 3 month after.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2014 07:53PM by temp.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Its one thing to eat raw for a week in a setting
> like HHI or other raw retreats where there growing
> all these fresh foods for you or have chefs on
> hand to prepare extravagant or decent tasting
> meals, but these people have little success
> following the same type of diet once they get
> home. Most individuals don't have the time or
> space to grow the level of food required, not that
> its generally enough anyway in my opinion.



That does appear to be the case from what HHI patients have told me. They say it takes so long to grow their own food.



>
> Most people complain of losing too much weight to
> the point of emaciation on these style of raw food
> diets, its just far too low in calories especially
> for active individuals. If someones expending 2000
> calories a day at maintenance, or 2500-3000 for a
> heavily active individual, but is struggling to
> get 1500 calories on a sproutarian Brian Clement
> style diet, then extreme weight loss will and does
> occur.



It's always tough. I am always having to try and keep my weight up. Sometimes l lose weight (like now) because l get busy doing other things and neglect the exercise, then l must stop doing other things and make an effort to do more weights to build myself up again. Still, no ribs showing thank goodness and decent muscle on my arms due to always lifting stuff. Still, l need to do exercises to build my neck, legs and face up. Very easy to build muscle on a sprout diet.


> Infact to this date, in all my time in the raw
> food and alternative health movement ive yet to
> see one person say they successfully followed
> Brian Clements or Gabriel Cousens diet advice, let
> alone in the long term. I think TSM you are the
> only person at present who truly eats this way.

There are probably other people living this way, but it is a lifestyle which takes all your time. Sproutarians are very time poor. Between work, exercise, study, growing food etc there is not a spare moment. You learn to become very organised and to work the sprout garden very efficiently. It is no wonder Ann Wigmore worked between 21 - 22.5 hours per day...she was so time poor that she would meditate while she worked. Kulvinskas has been very time poor too...not enough hours to do everything. And as for trying to juice twice per day....not possible, juicing takes ages.



>
> Another part of Brian Clements plan is that many
> expensive supplements are a standard component of
> the diet, again not everyone can afford to spend
> hundreds of dollars monthly on supplements like
> the soil based expensive B12 he offers. There has
> to be practical and workable solutions for
> everyone to be healthy or else there is nothing
> common sense or realistic about the information
> these people promote.


Yes, l will certainly be mentioning the cost and time aspect of this diet. But l say to people to try and do at least 50% sprouts and more if you can. A person is never going to get much of a following promoting a 100% sprout diet, so we need to be flexible and realistic.




>
> These diets might be based around good nutrient
> rich foods, but they take an unhealthy view to
> excluding many other foods, including several
> plant foods. Many of which would probably help the
> lack of energy/lacking of calories aspect to the
> diet i suspect.

I would love to know about all these athletes that are supposed to be sproutarians. Where are they getting calories from? I imagine they would have to be eating fruit to boost the calories.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are probably other people living this way,
> but it is a lifestyle which takes all your time.
> Sproutarians are very time poor. Between work,
> exercise, study, growing food etc there is not a
> spare moment. You learn to become very organised
> and to work the sprout garden very efficiently. It
> is no wonder Ann Wigmore worked between 21 - 22.5
> hours per day...she was so time poor that she
> would meditate while she worked. Kulvinskas has
> been very time poor too...not enough hours to do
> everything. And as for trying to juice twice per
> day....not possible, juicing takes ages.



So no traveling for work or vacations if you what to be a sproutarian. That cuts out most people right there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2014 11:35PM by SueZ.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a review from tripadvisor on HHI, again
> its anecdotal so we can only really take it at
> arms length because who knows if its real. But
> still interesting and typical of what i hear of
> many retreats. What im wary of is Brian Clement
> claiming he can cure incurable cancers. There is
> no scientific proof his program can cure anything,
> let alone these diseases.
>
> My husband stayed at Hippocrates Health Center in
> oktober 2012. He travelled there from Amsterdam
> because he had just been given a diagnosis of
> stage 4 stomach-cancer. Because regular health
> care could not offer curative treatment, he looked
> for an alternative. Before he left he had a
> telephone call with the director of Hippocrates,
> dr. Brian Clement. Dr. Clement convinced my
> husband that a raw food diet, combined with all
> the treatments at the institute could cure him. So
> he went and payed over 9000 euro's for his stay,
> additional;, very expensive treatments and all
> kinds of pills and substitutes. He stayed in one
> of the cheapest rooms, of campus. Jolene Jackson
> advised him to do so. When staying there he
> regretted this. He had cancer and was often tired.
> Staying of campus costed him extra energy. If you
> have cancer. at Hippocrates you can only eat raw
> green food, everyday garlic and no fruit. My
> husband lost 15 kilo's, If you have cancer you are
> not supposed to loose so much weight, you need
> everything you have. Although the staff is very
> friendly, you are very much on your own at
> Hippocrates. My husband missed very much a health
> professional who would help him and advice him
> which treatments would be best in his situation.
> He had to make his own plan. Which is difficult,
> when you are ill, you are staying off campus, you
> are only there for 3 weeks and you don't know what
> to do and what is best for you...and nobody is
> telling you. He took very expensive vitamine IV's
> from a dr. Cheng. He - and all the other patients
> that week -had bad luck, because the IV's (that
> are prepared locally) he and the other patients
> got, appeared to have turned bad. My husband got
> very, very sick of them. Obviously there is not
> enough control on what individual doctors do at
> Hippocrates. These people are not on the paylist,
> but hire a 'practice' at the institute. Dr. Brian
> and his wife dr. Anna Clement (both
> owner/directors of Hippocrates advise their
> patients during consults to take certain
> treatments. My husband was strongly advised by
> them to go to dr. Cheng. When my husband arrived
> on the Amsterdam airport back from Hippocrates, we
> had to rush him to hospital. His bloodcount had
> dropped so bad, he needed a blood- IV immediately.
> Hippocrates just does not offer enough medical
> support. If you have a stage 4 cancer diagnosis,
> find treatment elsewhere. My husband came back
> from Hippocrates in a far worse health then he had
> when he went there. He died 3 month after.


Yes, l have read all of the reviews online about HHI, both the good and bad. Some people say bad things, many people say good things.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are probably other people living this
> way,
> > but it is a lifestyle which takes all your
> time.
> > Sproutarians are very time poor. Between work,
> > exercise, study, growing food etc there is not
> a
> > spare moment. You learn to become very
> organised
> > and to work the sprout garden very efficiently.
> It
> > is no wonder Ann Wigmore worked between 21 -
> 22.5
> > hours per day...she was so time poor that she
> > would meditate while she worked. Kulvinskas has
> > been very time poor too...not enough hours to
> do
> > everything. And as for trying to juice twice
> per
> > day....not possible, juicing takes ages.
>
>
>
> So no traveling for work or vacations if you
> what to be a sproutarian. That cuts out most
> people right there.

Having mainly a home or local based business does help (travelling is wasted time), and vacations can be had when one is organised and bring some jars and seeds with them. On vacations l basically brings about 5 different seeds, dish racks, a blender, algaes and a seaweed and do without greens unless l want to blend and strain weeds.

Still, other sources of income need to be developed so people can be paid to do the sprouting for me so l can start doing some writing, phone consultations and do the research that needs to be done. Full time sproutarians promoting the lifestyle need people to ease the workload when they are taking on more projects. A company needs to be started to buy some time so other projects can be started and 12+ hour days can be put in without being disturbed while other people run things, grow my food and prepare the meals. It's good because at least you are giving people jobs and freeing up time to do more things.

If people can't manage full time sproutarianism they should at least do some greens, sprouted seeds, seaweeds, algaes, fruit (fill in calories) and some sprouted grain or beans in the evening along with something else of their choice.

If people can get at least a 16 oz green sprout juice, sprouted seeds, seaweeds/algaes and some type of sprouted legume or grain in the evening they are doing very well (some ferments included of course). People might then add in fruits, vegetables and some cooked food to top it up....not such a bad thing when you have added the power-houses in your daily diet. I am not a strict `my way or the highway' type of man, l am flexible and work with what people can manage. Some people may want to eat meat...fine, we can work with that.

But yes, sproutarians are best working for themselves or working locally. Driving motor vehicles and shopping takes time out of our busy schedules lol. Friends and family need to make appointments to see and talk to us because we are always busy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2014 04:27AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> -----
> > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------


> (travelling is wasted time)


I wish everyone would just stop putting this falsity out there because it has lodged into too many peoples beliefs as a fact, which it not only isn't but it keeps people down and out.


> Still, other sources of income need to be
> developed so people can be paid to do the
> sprouting for me so l can start doing some
> writing, phone consultations and do the research
> that needs to be done.


See, you do understand at some level how it really works and so just have to get past the false implanted and accepted mems like "traveling is a waste of time" and the rest of the localvorian pile of crap thinking. Movers and shakers have to be free to move and shake.



Full time sproutarians
> promoting the lifestyle need people to ease the
> workload when they are taking on more projects.


A few choices there. Take on free/paying apprentices who have a passion for learning how to be sproutarians, hire ambitionless locals who just need a job, or mechanize the processes. I'd go with the mechanization. Much of the stuff has been worked out and just need adaptations. Plus machines don't talk.



Driving motor
> vehicles and shopping takes time out of our busy
> schedules lol.

I do almost all of my shopping online. Probably saves me at least six hours a week. I highly recommend doing this for anyone who's time is worth more than a few bucks an hour.



Friends and family need to make
> appointments to see and talk to us because we are
> always busy.


That's what caller ID and voice mail is for. Even though I'm not a sproutarian unless an appointment has been made people like neighbors and service company guys have to catch me going back and forth across the street to get my mail to chat with me. I never answer knocks at the door no matter how aggressive some people get with their knocks. They learn.

"Healthy eating can be quick and accessible, but im not sure that applies to raw food diets however."

How so? Fruit, algae's, nuts, and seeds are all quick and accessible. Salads take much less time to prepare than cooking an entire meal. Juicing, depending on what you're juicing takes 5-15 minutes. Things like raw pasta with zucchini or certain sea vegetables take as much time, if not less, than most cooked pastas.

"The raw food diet sounds easy in principle and is often promoted as being simplistic, but you find its often not in theory. Even 80/10/10 only someone who has actually tried this diet will tell you, the level of preoccupation it takes to constantly keep a cycle of ripe fruit flowing to derive enough calories just from the majority of fruit is difficult and costly in most circumstances, even buying wholesale. I can only imagine how difficult a sprout based diet must be in this regard, considering you have to grow the majority of this staple food yourself all year around and whilst they might be more nutrient dense than many fruits, they have less than half the caloric intake, so its not a sustainable way of eating for most individuals. What happens if one crop mucks up, where do you derive calories from then ?"

It's not an all-or-nothing deal... you can grow large amounts of sprouts while still eating fruit.

"Raw fibrous 500 calorie salads which take hours to chew, to the point hours later your still chewing your way through a kristina fully raw salad bowl."

I've eaten some large salads and never has it taken me hours to finish, and I chew well... this is inaccurate and an exaggeration. Plus you destroy enzymes when you cook, making the food more indigestible.

"social situations are avoided"

This is only an issue if the person on a raw diet lets it become an issue.

"buying enough food to keep eating such way and so on."

This would apply to all diets.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


Plus you
> destroy enzymes when you cook, making the food
> more indigestible.


One overlooked thing, IMO, is that the amount of enzymes that plants produce is infinitesimal compared to the amounts our bodies produce to digest foods. This is no small oversight in the raw food world and deserves more and better thought.

Here's some good info on urine therapy: [www.bibliotecapleyades.net]

"Urine is estimated to have thousands of biochemical compounds, but only 200 or so have been studied. It contains an incredible array of critically important nutrients, enzymes, hormones, natural antibodies and immune defense agents.

Some of these components are well worth further consideration--such as:


• allantoin (also found in comfrey, known as "bone-knit", and in aloe vera, which guards against sunburn)

• the amino acid creatinine (popular with body-builders)

• DHEA hormone (proven by research to have anti-ageing, anticancer and anti-obesity properties)

• melatonin (known for its calming effect while strengthening the physical body and immunity)

• sex hormones such as testosterone, androgen and oestrogen"



"One overlooked thing, IMO, is that the amount of enzymes that plants produce is infinitesimal compared to the amounts our bodies produce to digest foods. This is no small oversight in the raw food world and deserves more and better thought."

The less our bodies have to work to digest, the more it can focus on detoxing, strengthening the immune system, energizing us, etc.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> The less our bodies have to work to digest, the
> more it can focus on detoxing, strengthening the
> immune system, energizing us, etc.

The enzymes in plants are so many magnitudes less that their help in giving our bodies a rest from digestion, etc., seems far fetched to me, quite frankly.


I'm not going to go point by point in how goofy the "good info" on urine "therapy" is. A lot of it is just too ridiculous. If there are some benefits to ut they are vastly outnumbered by both the unknowns and the knowns.

When I was in high school I used to get off the school bus at the stable and ride my horse the mile and a half back home and tie him to a huge tree while I went inside to get a snack before serious riding. Before I got banned from doing this a ring of dead grass made an appearance circling the tree which started getting some parent type's attention and it was pointed out to me. Well I didn't get too far into ignoring their warnings before the tree itself died.

No way in hell am I going to drink urine.

"The enzymes in plants are so many magnitudes less that their help in giving our bodies a rest from digestion, etc., seems far fetched to me, quite frankly."

So you think raw and cooked foods digest fairly similar?

"When I was in high school I used to get off the school bus at the stable and ride my horse the mile and a half back home and tie him to a huge tree while I went inside to get a snack before serious riding. Before I got banned from doing this a ring of dead grass made an appearance circling the tree which started getting some parent type's attention and it was pointed out to me. Well I didn't get too far into ignoring their warnings before the tree itself died."

Too much nitrogen (present in urine) can kill grass but our bodies need nitrogen.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The enzymes in plants are so many magnitudes less
> that their help in giving our bodies a rest from
> digestion, etc., seems far fetched to me, quite
> frankly."
>
> So you think raw and cooked foods digest fairly
> similar?



Absolutely not - but I think the real reason(s) remains to be found. I doubt it's the plant enzymes doing it, in other words.

"Absolutely not - but I think the real reason(s) remains to be found. I doubt it's the plant enzymes doing it, in other words."

Perhaps there are other factors, but I think the enzymes definitely have an impact. I mean, some of the enzymes used in digestive enzymes are from plants (such as bromelain, papain). Maybe it's through an indirect process as opposed to the enzymes themselves making a huge impact.

A little science behind urine therapy...

[www.greenpharmacy.info]

"Persons suffering from cancer were told that they would not survive for long; cow urine therapy was performed on such cases. Out of the many patients, who were suffering from cancer for the last 4 years are now leading a healthy life."

" In the same way, the diabetes patient who was taking insulin and having a sugar level of 488 or 420 mg/ dl did not have the necessity to take insulin after this treatment. In the same way AIDS, asthma, psoriasis, eczema, blood pressure, heart disease, prostrate, piles were also cured with this treatment."

"It was evaluated that patients who were receiving cow urine therapy since 2-3 months were most benefited. Hence, this traditional therapy is really a boon to cancer patients."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Efficacy of the administered dose is confirmed by reduction in the severity and duration of Cold-water-induced Raynaud symptoms after administration of effective doses of unboiled urine in AIBUT."


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Many aromatic urea derivatives such as N-phenyl-N'-(2-chloroethyl)ureas (CEUs) and benzoylureas (BUs) show good anticancer activity, and these compounds have mainly been proved to be tubulin ligands that inhibit the polymerization of tubulin. Heterocyclic urea derivatives play an important role in anticancer agents because of their good inhibitory activity against receptor tyrosine kinases (RTKs), raf kinases, protein tyrosine kinases (PTKs), and NADH oxidase, which play critical roles in many aspects of tumorigenesis. Thiourea derivatives are also of wide interest because of their diverse anticancer activity against various leukemias and solid tumors."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2014 12:32AM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Absolutely not - but I think the real reason(s)
> remains to be found. I doubt it's the plant
> enzymes doing it, in other words."



> Perhaps there are other factors, but I think the
> enzymes definitely have an impact. I mean, some of
> the enzymes used in digestive enzymes are from
> plants (such as bromelain, papain). Maybe it's
> through an indirect process as opposed to the
> enzymes themselves making a huge impact.


I don't know. There are a lot of mysteries still and a lot of the answers that we are told have been worked out don't really seem to be, IMO.

For instance, from past experience I have found that non-raw processed bromelain and papain work at least as well as raw. Is that because of the greater concentration or that they are usually from the most enzymatically active unripe, (before processing), state in the case of the non citrus fruits and the cores of the pineapples - or something else?

Whatever the reason(s) turn out to be we know at least that the bromelain and papain enzymes are not at their best for us in their raw sweet state that is preferred for eating.

We really don't know nearly as much about all the other non-commercialized plant enzyme "prime times" but maybe theirs varies from their prime eating time and location, too. I suspect most of the enzymes in plants are not much of a factor at all, and maybe none at all, in our own digestion of them.

jtprindl: some good posts in this thread and the 80-10-10 thread lately.

btw, your inbox has been full for days.

"jtprindl: some good posts in this thread and the 80-10-10 thread lately.

btw, your inbox has been full for days."

Thanks, and sorry, didn't realize there was a limit, you should be able to send PM's now.

For someone very sick with toxic urine what will be a solution in term of urine supply.
Get urine from healthier people or spouse???

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For someone very sick with toxic urine what will
> be a solution in term of urine supply.
> Get urine from healthier people or spouse???

Everyone has toxins in their urine. Flush it all. Why spend all the time, money, and effort to rid the body of toxins only to drink them back in?

Does every toxin that the cells release into the lymph system, etc., get @#$%& out? Hell no. The body likes to rid itself of toxins as fast as it can and has many many exit avenues and liquid moves faster than solids.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> For instance, from past experience I have found
> that non-raw processed bromelain and papain work
> at least as well as raw. Is that because of the
> greater concentration or that they are usually
> from the most enzymatically active unripe,
> (before processing), state in the case of the non
> citrus fruits and the cores of the pineapples - or
> something else?


> Whatever the reason(s) turn out to be we know
> at least that the bromelain and papain enzymes are
> not at their best for us in their raw sweet state
> that is preferred for eating.


WOW. Not one thought on this, artful dodgers?