This article will make a nice little read. I don't know who Dr Misner is or if he has any conflict of interest, but he sure paints a pretty picture of the algaes.

Below is an extract from the article which explains why Hydrilla is so nutritious and the processing methods this company uses.


WILD AQUATIC PLANT CONTAINS MAXIMUM OF PLANT NUTRIENTS

In certain spring-fed lake beds in northern Florida, where few humans have contact, and agricultural runoff and pollution are nil, there grows a peculiar rooted herbal plant, Hydrilla verticilata. These fertile lakebeds maintain mineral-rich soils similar to those at the turn of the century, when farmers cleared land for the first organic farms. Because the Hydrilla plant is rooted, it easily accesses high amounts of organic minerals, vitamins, enzymes, and trace micronutrients found in the prehistoric lakebed's soils. After harvesting "live" Hydrilla by cutting the plant just above its root structure, an exclusive non-cooking, non-freezing, and non-organic-altering process is carefully applied. This 5-stage pressure wash, which includes an ozone injection for removing only bacteria and microorganisms, is applied in order to extract the raw foods found within the plant's green stems, stalk, and leaves. A drying process is then applied using jet turbine blowers at a maximum of 88 degrees to remove the moisture without damaging the "living" enzymes and rich nutrients stored in the harvested plant

Not supposed to contain oxalic acid either.







Below is some basic research published on various algaes (easy to read). It covers 5 different algaes called: Chlorella, Dunaliella, Haematococcus, Aphanizomenon, Spirulina.

Evaluation of Microalgae for use as Nutraceuticals and Nutritional Supplements

West M. Bishop, Heidi M. Zubeck
[omicsonline.org]


Forget about a sproutman, what about an algae man? I wonder if anyone in history has had a diet high in fresh algae. It would be interesting to see how it would feel like to live on a variety of fresh algae for 2 weeks....maybe it will make us fly to the moon.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 04:22AM by The Sproutarian Man.

not vegan

life vs lifelessness

Diogenez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not vegan


Yeah it is, but how can anyone be vegan when they're eating living foods?

[www.pri.org]

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

"Forget about a sproutman, what about an algae man? I wonder if anyone in history has had a diet high in fresh algae. It would be interesting to see how it would feel like to live on a variety of fresh algae for 2 weeks....maybe it will make us fly to the moon."

Nutritionally, they're like multivitamins lol, but do you think they would be able to provide you with enough energy so you wouldn't drastically lose weight over the course of weeks or months? I guess you could, but you'd probably have to consume massive quantities.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Forget about a sproutman, what about an algae
> man? I wonder if anyone in history has had a diet
> high in fresh algae. It would be interesting to
> see how it would feel like to live on a variety of
> fresh algae for 2 weeks....maybe it will make us
> fly to the moon."
>
> Nutritionally, they're like multivitamins lol, but
> do you think they would be able to provide you
> with enough energy so you wouldn't drastically
> lose weight over the course of weeks or months? I
> guess you could, but you'd probably have to
> consume massive quantities.

You could come in a hair under 1600 calories a day on eight pounds of kelp.
I haven't worked out how much hydrilla it would take but it would be interesting if someone would.

Good to see you posting, temp!

Before I went raw vegan I took 100 mg B-complex supplements every day for a few decades without it affecting the vertical lines on my nails at all. The lines have gotten worse though in the last few years so maybe I'll give the B complex another shot and see what happens.

Nails are very easy to monitor so I should be able to tell in a matter of months if there are changes. Maybe I'll do rubbings of them before and after so I'll have an objective record of changes.

It would be interesting to see rubbings of your friend's nails as they improve wouldn't it?

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Suez, i have been watching in still reading
> everyone's posts . Good to see your still
> around.
>
> That's interesting, i really want to get to the
> bottom of what causes these vertical ridges as
> these sort of things annoy me lol.


It just occurred to me that I could be checking out the nails of people in the nursing home I visit every day and try to see if I can get some grasp on correlations to their various diseases and nail ridges.




> The woman's vertical ridges were really
> pronounced, but have lowered significantly in as
> little as 2-3 weeks, she even said that she could
> feel how much they lowered from the first few days
> of a high-dosage b-complex vitamin. I will maybe
> ask her for some pictures.


I'm not buying this at all, quite frankly. She seems not to understand that the ridges are formed as the nails are formed in the nail beds and so it would take months to see if anything had actually changed in their formation.

The hydrilla is a very powerful food and l am feeling the effects. It is also delicious. The hydrilla is known as a potent hyper-calcium uptaker and the literature also states it is a hyper-zinc uptaker despite the nutrition anaysis by Lotus Foods showing otherwise. I wonder why the Lotus product is so much lower in zinc than other hydrilla.

I'll post some more info on hydrilla and other algaes another day.

I am also looking into Dunaliella (I think it is marine phytoplankton), but it is expensive, so l want to buy 10 kg in bulk and distribute it for a good price to other people. The major problem is that it oxidises within days if not taken in capsule form so l need to find special bags and oxygen absorbers to keep it stable.

Interestingly, Brian Clement says bee pollen is almost as nutritious as the algaes (he mentions it in this highly interesting talk somewhere in one of the 7 parts).

BRIAN CLEMENT Q & A - Raw Food, Cancer & More (1of 7)
[www.youtube.com]

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not buying this at all, quite frankly.
> She
> > seems not to understand that the ridges are
> formed
> > as the nails are formed in the nail beds and so
> it
> > would take months to see if anything had
> actually
> > changed in their formation.
>
> I have been with her in person during this time,
> so have seen the dramatic improvement in real
> time, its amazed me how quick the b-complex has
> lowered them. They are still there faintly, but
> they have substantially lowered the ridges
> visually to the point you can barely see them.
>
> Such a strange phenomenon that they can react so
> quickly to change, although it could be that she
> was severely deficient in these B vitamins, as not
> only with her chronic health problems, but she was
> an alcohol drinker and very stressed, both of
> which would severely lower B vitamins i guess.
>
> Her thyroid function is improving also since the
> B-vitamin complex, so it could also be that. Its
> amazing what natural methods can achieve, she has
> been unwell for several years and off work as a
> result.
>


Since this is the case you have witnessed for yourself I am certain that she must be doing something to facilitate such a miraculously speedy change in the topography of her fingernail surfaces. Buffing them down with pumice, for instance, is a common method people use for this.

It's really important to fully grasp the concept that fingernails are the end product of an extrusion process and the metabolic changes which would change these ridge deformities organically will not grow out enough to facilitate our inspection for months.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:26AM by Prana.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hydrilla is a very powerful food and l am
> feeling the effects.


So then can I take this to mean that you've found it in it's wild habitat and are no longer at the mercy of your postal service? I hope so.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since this is the case you have witnessed for
> > yourself I am certain that she must be doing
> > something to facilitate such a miraculously
> speedy
> > change in the topography of her fingernail
> > surfaces. Buffing them down with pumice, for
> > instance, is a common method people use for
> this.
> >
> > It's really important to fully grasp the
> concept
> > that fingernails are the end product of an
> > extrusion process and the metabolic changes
> which
> > would change these ridge deformities
> organically
> > will not grow out enough to facilitate our
> > inspection for months.
>
> She's someone i trust and doesn't really use much
> make up or file her nails etc. It has been 3
> weeks, so whether thats quick enough for the
> metabolic changes i don't know, but there is a
> drastically quick change in the severity of the
> ridges, so much so i wish that i had took before
> and after pictures.
>
> Another thing i was thinking is maybe the high
> dose of B-vitamins such as Vitamin B6 are lowering
> copper, shes sent away for a kryptopyrrole test
> because she suspects pyroluria and copper
> toxicity, ive read the vertical nail ridges are a
> common symptom of pyrolurics, but again the
> condition causes severe deficiency of zinc and
> vitamin B6, so what is the root is hard to tell
> here.
>
> It could be that the b-vitamins have lowered her
> copper enough to allow zinc to be rebalanced and
> my theory of zinc causing the vertical nail ridges
> is back lol, as she's seeing drastic improvement
> in many of her other health problems extremely
> quickly, some of which can be traced to copper
> imbalances.
>
> If you do try a b-complex supplement, id be very
> interested in how you get on Suez. Do you take
> zinc out of interest ?
>

OK if you trust her but I'm still not at all buying it for the reason I've stated. If she is buffing her nails there would be some evidence of that even a x10 loupe would reveal. Do you have one?

I'll let you know if/when I give the B complex a try again but, remember, I took it for 20 years without it influencing my nail ridges so I'm not really in a hurry to give it a second chance.

No, I am not taking zinc supplements. My intake and copper balance intake seems pretty good at around 5 or 6:1. Now and then I do take a potassium cap when I'm not eating optimally as I'm usually not getting enough of that yet. I only take it at times when I stretch and then get muscle cramps. It works, for me, for a quick fix for that occasional problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:26AM by Prana.

sproutman

interesting article

u say hydrilla is a "hyper uptaker" of calcium and zinc

does this mean that hydriall itself

1) contains a LOT of both these nutrients
or simply
2) binds to these nutrients and retains them

also

why isn't algae grown artificially so as to minimize other potentially toxic factors?

it should be grown in artificial ponds

is there any company that does this and has a very low toxicity profile for their product?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The hydrilla is a very powerful food and l am
> > feeling the effects.
>
>
> So then can I take this to mean that you've
> found it in it's wild habitat and are no longer at
> the mercy of your postal service? I hope so.

I had the company send out another bag, but that also had it's headaches, but we sorted it out and all is well.

I will be contacting some wildlife place to see where hydrilla is located locally and will then use your fishpond tips to try and grow it myself.


Nutritional analysis of Dunaliella salina v's spirulina, kelp, chlorella, wheatgrass powder and barley grass power (simple article).
[www.nutrimedgroup.com]

The nutritional analysis of E3 live is quite impressive too, but very low in zinc.
[omicsonline.org]


Still got a heap of papers to read on various algaes, but will hopefully find a marine phytoplankton analsysis soon.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 11:30PM by The Sproutarian Man.

I've been going back and forth whether I should start consuming AFA because of rumors that it is toxic, but I think it's only some sources that are toxic and E3 Live seems to be a great source free of any contaminants. Testimonials from thousands of people on their website, not to mention yourself, Brian Clement, Gabriel Cousens, and David Wolfe. I started taking it again two days ago (1 tablespoon yesterday, 2 today) and it seems to have a nice subtle effect on the mind. I take it after taking 15 grams of chlorella and can do physical labor outside in the sun for hours and still have energy into the afternoon after not eating past 7:30-8 the previous night. Sprouts and algae's could benefit so many people in the raw community if they could get past the old paradigm of fruits and vegetables. Sprouts are light years ahead of vegetables and algae's are light years ahead of fruit. A little bit of fresh fruit wont hurt and has its benefits but choosing fruit over algae is insane.

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sproutman
>
> interesting article
>
> u say hydrilla is a "hyper uptaker" of calcium
> and zinc
>
> does this mean that hydriall itself
>
> 1) contains a LOT of both these nutrients
> or simply
> 2) binds to these nutrients and retains them

It absorbs lots of calcium and zinc. Chlorella is also another well know hyper zinc accumulator with 15% rda per 3 grams.




jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been going back and forth whether I should
> start consuming AFA because of rumors that it is
> toxic, but I think it's only some sources that are
> toxic and E3 Live seems to be a great source free
> of any contaminants. Testimonials from thousands
> of people on their website, not to mention
> yourself, Brian Clement, Gabriel Cousens, and
> David Wolfe. I started taking it again two days
> ago (1 tablespoon yesterday, 2 today) and it seems
> to have a nice subtle effect on the mind. I take
> it after taking 15 grams of chlorella and can do
> physical labor outside in the sun for hours and
> still have energy into the afternoon after not
> eating past 7:30-8 the previous night.


Yes, it has a great effect on mind and energy. The first day l took it l worked hard all day and then worked all night at home doing horrible she;lf construction work without any sleep and felt energetic and loved doing the job like a child would.

AFA is completely unique due to it's high blue pigment. A very special food.

Another awesome blue food is sprouted poppy seeds. People in England have access to them.


> Sprouts and > algae's could benefit so many people in the raw
> community if they could get past the old paradigm
> of fruits and vegetables. Sprouts are light years
> ahead of vegetables and algae's are light years
> ahead of fruit. A little bit of fresh fruit wont
> hurt and has its benefits but choosing fruit over
> algae is insane.

I agree 1,000%!!! And also, the fenugreek sprouts also have sulfated mannose which helkps break down oxalic acid and chelate with lectins so they protect the body against raw sprouted grains and legumes.

See...people base many things solely on vitamin and mineral analysis, but this is a HUGE mistake (far too narrow a focus to be meaningful). Eg, the sprouted seeds are far more vitamin/mineral nutritious than the sprouted greens, BUT the sprouted greens have a much more powerful effect on the body. Chia grass is more powerful than chia sprouts etc. It's probably a combination of phytochemicals, enzymes, chlorophyl, trapped sunlight, hormones and heaps of other things which make the greens so effective. Dr Clement and Dr Valerie Hunt claim it is the enzymes and trapped sunlight which gives the plant the highest energy and electrical frequency in greens. The vegetables don't have the same ability to create chlorophyll and develop enzymes to the concentrated levels like the sprouts do, so it stands to reason they are much less powerful than the sprouts.

The real power and healing is in the sprouted greens, seaweeds and algaes. All the sprouted seeds/nuts basically do is boost the vitamin and mineral contents and provide calories and a filler (well, it is not completely true, but l hope you can see what l am getting at). It's all about the greens (algaes, seaweeds and sprouted greens), then comes the sprouted seeds/nuts, and followed by the sprouted legumes and grains to finish the job. Fruit is just a snack and a fun food which doesn't play much of an important role imo, especially when not picked from the tree.

I'll get back to your other important questions on alkalinity in the next day hopefully. Got lots of info to present shortly on that and to ad dress the deluded protein theories out there by most health gurus by providding science which proves them wrong in their assumptions.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 01:50AM by The Sproutarian Man.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive read the reason why AFA is so stimulating for
> energy is because some of the toxins it contains
> have an amphetamine type effect.

Could be, but l would be surprised if that was the case. I would want to see some pretty hard studies showing such a thing and certainly not from an unreferenced blog.


>
> Personally id still be wary of any AFA due to the
> potential microcystin and anatoxin contamination,
> its Klamath lake that is the problem where its
> sourced from, i don't think E3Live is any safer
> than any of the rest of the brands and from what
> ive read some asked for the data sheet from E3 and
> they couldn't produce. One data sheet isn't enough
> either, one batch could meet microcystin levels,
> then the next could be off the charts for all we
> know.

Yes, the company certainly hasn't earned a good reputation. It's best to warn people and let them decide for themselves. Personally, l have had nothing but great results with it and have many saftey barriers in place to protect against toxins, but l know other 100% raw fooders who have had problems. Maybe my diet helps with toxins, maybe it also helps with Kulvinskas, Dr Brian and other HHI people on sprout/seaweed diets.

>
> Very true on the other benefits of wheatgrass TSM,
> im a big fan of it myself. Even dried organic
> wheatgrass, although not as good as fresh still
> gives me significant benefit.


I find powered barley grass to be useless...doesn't do a thing for me. Dr Clement did an old study that was said to show powdered wheatgrass to be only 1% as effective as the home grown grass. Why would he lie?...he could have made big money selling powdered grass to HHI people instead, but instead he misses out on the money and gets people to grow it themselves. Dr Brian also sells $240 Sun Chlorella A repackaged under HHI for $70. I really don't think Dr Brian is a big money making scammer like some say he is. But some other E3 live promotors do seem to be money making scammers, and l can provide a good case to explain why that is possibly the reality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 11:37AM by The Sproutarian Man.

"I have heard that quote from Brian Clement before, but like always there is no so called study as far as i can see when i searched for it. Its true what would his motivation be, but then again HHI is largely centered around these fresh raw foods, which is great but there is still some potential bias."

It's not just Brian Clement, you also hear great things from Gabriel Cousens, David Wolfe, and Viktoras Kulvinskas. When properly harvested and responsibly handled, it's an amazing algae with lots of health benefits. There could be many reasons why it has such an energizing and positive effect on the mind, but I'd assume the PEA, electrical frequency, and richness in B-vitamins play a role.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 01:41PM by jtprindl.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I have heard that quote from Brian Clement
> > before, but like always there is no so called
> > study as far as i can see when i searched for
> it.
> > Its true what would his motivation be, but then
> > again HHI is largely centered around these
> fresh
> > raw foods, which is great but there is still
> some
> > potential bias."
> >
> > It's not just Brian Clement, you also hear
> great
> > things from Gabriel Cousens, David Wolfe, and
> > Viktoras Kulvinskas. When properly harvested
> and
> > responsibly handled, it's an amazing algae with
> > lots of health benefits. There could be many
> > reasons why it has such an energizing and
> positive
> > effect on the mind, but I'd assume the PEA,
> > electrical frequency, and richness in
> B-vitamins
> > play a role.
>
> I wasn't referring to AFA there, i was meaning
> Brian Clements quote that all green powders are
> virtually worthless i.e his 1% quote, which having
> viewed hundreds of nutritional data sheets for
> wheatgrass, barleygrass, kelp, chlorella and other
> green powders, id say that quote wasn't very true
> at all, considering even dried these powders are
> still extremely nutritious and like i say where is
> this so called study if he has done it ? Another
> opinion passed off as fact and claimed to be
> supported by science. As someone who takes green
> powders on occasion, especially when im on the
> road this is the type of study id be interested
> in, if it actually existed, so much so that i can
> no longer believe anything from Brian Clement.
>
> On the AFA i know there are alot of raw gurus who
> promote it, but it will still never change the
> bulk of the science which is there, at this point
> AFA is a very questionable and quite probably
> dangerous supplement according to the science we
> have. Can it be ok, im sure it possibly can but
> the lack of consistent regulation by manufacturers
> is a major concern.
>
> The problem is primarily where AFA is sourced from
> i.e the Klamath Lake, which is a toxic haven and
> its not only microcystins, anatoxins, saxitoxins
> etc that we have to worry about, but lots of
> agricultural chemicals and industrial pesticides
> are known to run daily into the klamath lake. Im
> not one to worry about every possible minor toxin,
> but microcystins and such aren't minor toxins by
> any means and as the studies show more than half
> of the batches exceed safety limits, these toxins
> have serious potential to destroy health.
>
> Many of these raw gurus promote the klamath lake
> as pristine and clean also, which we know is a
> flat out lie. Im more inclined to believe the
> independent science which is there on AFA, rather
> than these so-called raw gurus.
>


Well said and I agree completely with your points.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:27AM by Prana.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have heard that quote from Brian Clement before,
> but like always there is no so called study as far
> as i can see when i searched for it. Its true what
> would his motivation be, but then again HHI is
> largely centered around these fresh raw foods,
> which is great but there is still some potential
> bias. If hes done the study, surely he can
> reference it,


I feel he has probably done his own testing using scientists he knows. He wouldn't have done it under strict conditions. I was listening to him not long ago, and that's how he does things. Brian gets curious about things so he gets a scientist to test it for him. It's never a strict scientific test, but he tries to set it up as carefully as he can so he can get an accurate unbias result. These test can be of benefit because it gives him something to go on.

I take the 1% figure with a grain of salt, but l know fresh grass is far more potent than powder grass, so he is probably not too far wrong with that.


>
> He does alot of good and has alot of good products
> too, but ill never be for AFA blue-green algae,
> personally it made me feel very sick to the point
> of vomiting at times. Plus there is just too much
> science there, which most of it concludes AFA is a
> very questionable supplement for humans at this
> point and most likely dangerous. The problem with
> microcystins and anatoxins, they all have a very
> low dosage range for causing significant nervous
> system and liver damage, also studies show that
> manufacturers aren't regulating their product as
> they claim and over half of the samples tested
> exceed safety limits for microcystins. Just too
> dangerous for me to want to use or promote it,
> especially when their is safer algaes such as
> chlorella.


I think it's time for people using AFA to take toxicity tests for these various chemicals to see if they are building up in the body.



>
> Although my gripe with Brian Clement is all these
> so called studies he claims to have done at HHI,
> but rarely if ever have i seen him reference,
> personally it only leads me to believe that its
> complete fabrication and that they don't really
> exist.


In fairness to Dr Clement, I think he probably has done testing and quotes people who have done testing, but the problem is that these tests might not be proper set up scientific tests that would be up to a high standards expected (too much money and time...all Brian wants to do is get a basic idea through tests so he has a direction to go in...it gives him some clue). +, I think he has so many studies in his head that it makes it hard to state what they all are off the top of his head. That's how he seems to work, and he doesn't make a secret of it because he has stated that in at least one talk.



>If that is the case, id rather he said its
> his opinion that powdered barleygrass is no where
> near as effective as fresh, rather than saying hes
> done studies or got studies proving it, but can't
> reference any of them, which is abit of a sham.


I am almost certain that the testing was done at HHI was on a certain day in the 70's. They would have done simple tests and didn't feel the need to record it. If they did keep a record it would have been a pretty simple one. Nothing would have been published, it was just a simple piece of information they picked up from simple tests.

I can see why Brian does that. He can't go running to scientists every week, taking hours out of his time and paying big money for tests, so he keeps it simple and tries to get some insight by using as good of a test as he can under the circumstances.

Brian is now saying that vegans have higher EPA levels than meat eaters. Maybe this is the sproutarians who are going through HHI, because it certainly isn't the regular vegan.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 03:47PM by The Sproutarian Man.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> On the AFA i know there are alot of raw gurus who
> promote it, but it will still never change the
> bulk of the science which is there, at this point
> AFA is a very questionable and quite probably
> dangerous supplement according to the science we
> have. Can it be ok, im sure it possibly can but
> the lack of consistent regulation by manufacturers
> is a major concern.
>
> The problem is primarily where AFA is sourced from
> i.e the Klamath Lake, which is a toxic haven and
> its not only microcystins, anatoxins, saxitoxins
> etc that we have to worry about, but lots of
> agricultural chemicals and industrial pesticides
> are known to run daily into the klamath lake. Im
> not one to worry about every possible minor toxin,
> but microcystins and such aren't minor toxins by
> any means and as the studies show more than half
> of the batches exceed safety limits, these toxins
> have serious potential to destroy health.


Yes, I think it is probably wise people get tested for toxicity every now and again.


>
> Many of these raw gurus promote the klamath lake
> as pristine and clean also, which we know is a
> flat out lie. Im more inclined to believe the
> independent science which is there on AFA, rather
> than these so-called raw gurus.


Very true.

"I feel he has probably done his own testing using scientists he knows. He wouldn't have done it under strict conditions. I was listening to him not long ago, and that's how he does things. Brian gets curious about things so he gets a scientist to test it for him. It's never a strict scientific test, but it gives him something to go on."

Because you "feel" he is not a pseudo-scientist you are offering excuses for his methodology and reporting. That's all you are doing, TSM.

"I wasn't referring to AFA there, i was meaning Brian Clements quote that all green powders are virtually worthless i.e his 1% quote, which having viewed hundreds of nutritional data sheets for wheatgrass, barleygrass, kelp, chlorella and other green powders, id say that quote wasn't very true at all, considering even dried these powders are still extremely nutritious and like i say where is this so called study if he has done it ? Another opinion passed off as fact and claimed to be supported by science. As someone who takes green powders on occasion, especially when im on the road this is the type of study id be interested in, if it actually existed, so much so that i can no longer believe anything from Brian Clement."


They might have vitamins and minerals, but you're not going to be getting anywhere near the amount of phytochemicals, phytohormones, oxygen, and electrical frequency from powdered grasses as you would with newly harvested fresh juice.

"On the AFA i know there are alot of raw gurus who promote it, but it will still never change the bulk of the science which is there, at this point AFA is a very questionable and quite probably dangerous supplement according to the science we have. Can it be ok, im sure it possibly can but the lack of consistent regulation by manufacturers is a major concern."


I'm sure you can find very similar studies which say chlorella is toxic or can be toxic as well. It's all about the source. Same concept with organic and GMO, it wouldn't be logical to claim all strawberries are unhealthy because GMO one's are sprayed with pesticides.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I feel he has probably done his own testing using
> scientists he knows. He wouldn't have done it
> under strict conditions. I was listening to him
> not long ago, and that's how he does things. Brian
> gets curious about things so he gets a scientist
> to test it for him. It's never a strict scientific
> test, but it gives him something to go on."
>
> Because you "feel" he is not a pseudo-scientist
> you are offering excuses for his methodology and
> reporting. That's all you are doing, TSM.


Can't really debate the proven success rate of HHI curing tens of thousands of sick people from chronic disease using green juices (sprouts/grasses) and algae's though.

I have never seen myself as offering excuses for Dr Brian (there is no reason why l need to defend him), l see myself as explaining why he probably quotes nameless science the way he does. I am trying to be fair and neutral....l can see why he references studies the way he does. If l found out he was misleading and/or lying, l would be exposing him...and l have in the past.


Please note: when l say things like omega 3's in sprouted chia being 36 times more absorbable over the soaked seed, or dried grass being only 1% as effective as fresh grown grass, l don't state these things as a scientific fact, l only state these things because people may be interested to hear something new and interesting. I never state it as a fact, l simply say that "dr clement reports...." I take these non documented studies with a grain of salt - I don't believe it or disbelieve it.

"Another i can remember off the top of my head is his claim that eating cooked vegan plant foods compared to raw vegan food, caused the immune system to decline by 50% or something drastically unbelievable along those lines"

Well, when we eat cooked foods the number of leukocytes (white blood cells) in our blood increases. White blood cells search for and destroy disease-causing organisms, meaning our immune system views cooked foods as foreign invaders. I don't know about exact percentages, but cooked food does certain seem to lower the immune system. Plus your body has to exert energy to cool the food down to 98.6 degrees.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, when we eat cooked foods the number of
> leukocytes (white blood cells) in our blood
> increases.

That applies to cooked animal products not things like cooked legumes.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This isn't the only time hes quoted percentages or
> certain numbers from studies hes claimed to have
> done. Another i can remember off the top of my
> head is his claim that eating cooked vegan plant
> foods compared to raw vegan food, caused the
> immune system to decline by 50% or something
> drastically unbelievable along those lines. Again
> if the studies were real, how is he measuring such
> significant decline in immune function, personally
> i don't believe anything he says anymore for this
> very reason.


You are right. Sometimes the claims are far too big.As you say, "how is he measuring such significant decline in immune function"? That's a very big call to make, and proper scientific procedure needs to be followed with a subject as complex as immune functioning.

In regards to sprouted chia being 36 times more available, this might have been done by spectra blood testing, but still, he should be documenting his procedures so we know it is sound science. Scientists have done faulty testing in the past so we need to know if the testing done by Dr Brian is credible.

Temp: you are influencing me here. Sometimes l give people too much of the benefit of the doubt, but l shouldn't because your points are spot on.


>
> These are more likely just his opinions but he's
> trying to pass them off as credible science. He'd
> garner much more respect if he just said it was
> his opinion that cooked vegan foods weren't as
> good as raw, or actually put up some data if he
> has done it,

I know what you are saying, and he is quite aware of many people questioning his science claims. Regardless, I still have a large amount of respect for the diet he promotes and the high quality supplements, because l am convinced no-one does it better, he promotes the highest of lifestyles, he does it perfect imo.

Brian may have his faults and not present highly credible testing, but he is still the top diet teacher by far...no-one comes close, Brian is so thorough, he is a legend. + Brian reads the science literature because he cares and wants to be as good as he can be at his job. The mighty three have all made their special impact (wigmore, kulvinskas, clement)...they may not have all the science togeather, but boy oh boy they certainly developed a brilliant way of eating.

Brian does the best he can with the resources he has got, but he needs to be careful how he states things. He gets very excited at times, but you still can't fault the lifestyle he has taught people.


>
> The jury is out, i think ive only ever come across
> one study ever from HHI, maybe not even that. If
> he is just passing off opinion as scientific fact,
> pretending to have done studies etc and making up
> all these numbers up, then i don't know what to
> say to be honest lol.


He really should be more careful how he states things. Stating his testing as fact is dangerous and will lose him respect. He would be better to say that "according to our testing it looks like....to be the case". He should keep it more general and only get really specific when sound science has been done and documented.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 04:44PM by The Sproutarian Man.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Well, when we eat cooked foods the number of
> > leukocytes (white blood cells) in our blood
> > increases.
>
> That applies to cooked animal products not
> things like cooked legumes.


I think it depends moreso on the temperature than what food is being cooked. However this isn't the only problem with cooking, there's also the destruction of enzymes, nutrients, amino acids, and phytochemicals.

[www.healthbeyondhype.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2014 06:46PM by jtprindl.

"AFA is a liver toxin.

This myth happens because of a lack of education and a lack of understanding of the different species of algae. AFA is a nutritional specie of cyanophyta and is considered safe for human consumption and considered an agricultural product by the Oregon Department of Agriculture Food and Safety Division. There are tens of thousands of species of algae. Of blue-green algae, some species are toxic, some are not, and a few are considered nutritional sources. AFA cyanophyta has been consumed for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. In our current culture, this specific source of AFA harvested from Klamath Lake has been used for more than 25 years, including in clinical settings with notable doctors. The specie of algae that is a liver toxin is not AFA, it is called Microcystis aeruginosa. It occurs in nearly every body of water, including our public drinking water. The Oregon Department of Agriculture has set a safe level of less than one part per million as acceptable in algae products. It is interesting to note that we must abide by these figures, but there are no set figures for your public drinking water.

[www.bluegreenfoods.com]



AFA and B12 - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Compared to the control period, in the intervention period participants improved their vitamin B12 status, significantly reducing Hcy blood concentration (p=0.003). In conclusion, the Klamath algae product AFA-B12 appears to be, in a preliminary study, an adequate and reliable source of vitamin B12 in humans."



"Because M. aeruginosa coexists with A. flos-aquae, it can be collected inadvertently during the harvesting process, resulting in microcystin contamination of BGA products." - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Again, pointing towards needing a high-quality source who thoroughly checks for contaminants. I get the concern but all of the experts and doctors such as Clement, Cousens, and Wolfe who tout the benefits of AFA always refer E3 Live, which has never been linked or proven to be toxic. Other manufacturers who strictly have profit in mind and are not interested in producing a clean and exceptional product, I can understand how this happens.

So with the aforementioned wisdom of those highly knowledgeable men, TSM's experiences, and my experience so far, it seems be very safe with lots of benefits. Lots of these common vegan deficiencies can be easily addressed through the consumption of algae's. Chlorella increases B12 and is a fantastic source of iron and zinc and according to that study I linked, AFA increases B12 as well on top of its many other benefits. It also reduced homocysteine levels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2014 12:04PM by jtprindl.