meat (!) and dairy. He is 80% raw. According to this article on raising raw kids, he says that he had a "constant hunger" when he was 100% raw growing up and that he saw stunted growth in kids raised raw.

[well.blogs.nytimes.com];

“When it takes 15 hours to make a raw food lasagna that wipes out two days of your life, it’s better to just make a vegan or vegetarian lasagna and move on with your day,” he said.

Now if I recall, he made that raw "cook"book for kids with his sister, right? And to think that he's actually started eating meat is insane to me. I can handle adding cooked items and even dairy but that takes the cake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 08:58PM by banana who.

I think the NYtimes always promotes meat and it is anti plant base diets. It is refreshing to see that the mentality hasn't changed. There are thousands upon thousands of obese children from meat eating parents and nobody cries. But if a vegan kid gets sick, they call the police and the fire department. Being fat and obese is the normal standard. Usually the people pressing the alarm button are on medications, drugs, etc, and think it is normal. Medication is normal. Scheduling doctor appointments is normal. Eating burgers is normal. Socializing eating dead carcasses is normal. Getting the leg cut out from diabetes is normal. But eating fruits and vegetables is an eating disorder. The sick teaching the healthy how to be healthy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 10:05PM by Panchito.

this is the pic of the author of the article (on the right holding the yellow bike). Take a look at her legs and knees

October 6, 2013



Looks like she'll be on medication soon (but it is NORMAL).

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is the pic of the author of the article (on
> the right holding the yellow bike). Take a look at
> her legs and knees
>
> October 6, 2013
>
> [stephbt7.files.wordpress.com]
> 0_10151571093961364_851980457_o.jpg
>
> Looks like she'll be on medication soon (but it is
> NORMAL).


Not quite...

[abbyellin.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 10:45PM by SueZ.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the NYtimes always promotes meat and it is
> anti plant base diets. It is refreshing to see
> that the mentality hasn't changed. There are
> thousands upon thousands of obese children from
> meat eating parents and nobody cries. But if a
> vegan kid gets sick, they call the police and the
> fire department. Being fat and obese is the normal
> standard. Usually the people pressing the alarm
> button are on medications, drugs, etc, and think
> it is normal. Medication is normal. Scheduling
> doctor appointments is normal. Eating burgers is
> normal. Socializing eating dead carcasses is
> normal. Getting the leg cut out from diabetes is
> normal. But eating fruits and vegetables is an
> eating disorder. The sick teaching the healthy how
> to be healthy.

Panchito, Panchito, Panchito...

[www.amazon.com]

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the NYtimes always promotes meat and it is
> anti plant base diets. It is refreshing to see
> that the mentality hasn't changed. There are
> thousands upon thousands of obese children from
> meat eating parents and nobody cries. But if a
> vegan kid gets sick, they call the police and the
> fire department. Being fat and obese is the normal
> standard. Usually the people pressing the alarm
> button are on medications, drugs, etc, and think
> it is normal. Medication is normal. Scheduling
> doctor appointments is normal. Eating burgers is
> normal. Socializing eating dead carcasses is
> normal. Getting the leg cut out from diabetes is
> normal. But eating fruits and vegetables is an
> eating disorder. The sick teaching the healthy how
> to be healthy.


You make some good points which I agree with, but what about Sergei's comments? Doesn't this surprise you or were you already aware of this? I knew that Victoria was no longer all raw but I wasn't sure about her kids and I guess I assumed that they would at least be vegetarians, if not vegans, cooked or not. The thing that always throws me for a loop is going from 100% raw vegan to eating meat. I have been open with my not being vegan (although I have done it and plan to go beegan in the near future) but I cannot imagine ever eating meat again. I am having a hard enough time stomaching cheese and eggs, believe it or not. I am dropping them naturally, rather than forcing myself to do so prematurely. I actually agree with Sergei when he writes that about spending so much energy making a raw dish rather than throwing things together quickly. Of course, that doesn't mean you have to eat meat, for God's sake!

isn't she the same person (old pic yours, updated pic mine)? There are many people that use the high school pic as business cards

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > this is the pic of the author of the article
> (on
> > the right holding the yellow bike). Take a look
> at
> > her legs and knees
> >
> > October 6, 2013
> >
> >
> [stephbt7.files.wordpress.com]
>
> > 0_10151571093961364_851980457_o.jpg
> >
> > Looks like she'll be on medication soon (but it
> is
> > NORMAL).
>
>
> Not quite...
>
> [abbyellin.com]

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You make some good points which I agree with, but
> what about Sergei's comments? Doesn't this
> surprise you or were you already aware of this?

they have to blame something easy and switching groups is easy. Instead of working out the problems many people go all for a big switch. There is nothing in meat that is needed BUT if the mind thinks it is needed then they find a justification. I've met a 20 year being vegan person who told me she is no longer vegan and after a year later she looks much worse than before. She fell for the blood type diet book je je.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You make some good points which I agree with,
> but
> > what about Sergei's comments? Doesn't this
> > surprise you or were you already aware of this?
>
>
> they have to blame something easy and switching
> groups is easy. Instead of working out the
> problems many people go all for a big switch.
> There is nothing in meat that is needed BUT if the
> mind thinks it is needed then they find a
> justification. I've met a 20 year being vegan
> person who told me she is no longer vegan and
> after a year later she looks much worse than
> before. She fell for the blood type diet book je
> je.

I read that book and I am supposed to eat meat and there's no way in hell I'd ever do that again. I never digested meat well.

Oh, good Lord in heaven I just found this video from back when the Boutenko family were vegetarians??! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! ...

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 12:59AM by SueZ.

a couple good comments in that article but
some of the ignorance is just stunning

jinjee (nuts required for protein?)
sergei (lasagne ?) (hungry all the time?)
if you're hungry all the time you're not doing it right.

hunger goes down on proper all raw

I feel really lucky that I came to the raw lifestyle without having had exposure to "gurus" beyond what recipe books I could find. If I knew then what I know now I probably would have been turned off to raw completely just by all these "personalities" or, probably as they think of themselves, "the talent".

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> meat (!) and dairy. He is 80% raw. According to
> this article on raising raw kids, he says that he
> had a "constant hunger" when he was 100% raw
> growing up and that he saw stunted growth in kids
> raised raw.
>
> [well.blogs.nytimes.com]
> p-on-raw-foods/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_t
> ype=blogs&ref=health&_r=1&
>
> “When it takes 15 hours to make a raw food
> lasagna that wipes out two days of your life,
> it’s better to just make a vegan or vegetarian
> lasagna and move on with your day,” he said.
>
> Now if I recall, he made that raw "cook"book for
> kids with his sister, right? And to think that
> he's actually started eating meat is insane to me.
> I can handle adding cooked items and even dairy
> but that takes the cake.

Is anyone really surprised.

Vegans eat their own.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the NYtimes always promotes meat and it
> is
> > anti plant base diets. It is refreshing to see
> > that the mentality hasn't changed. There are
> > thousands upon thousands of obese children from
> > meat eating parents and nobody cries. But if a
> > vegan kid gets sick, they call the police and
> the
> > fire department. Being fat and obese is the
> normal
> > standard. Usually the people pressing the alarm
> > button are on medications, drugs, etc, and
> think
> > it is normal. Medication is normal. Scheduling
> > doctor appointments is normal. Eating burgers
> is
> > normal. Socializing eating dead carcasses is
> > normal. Getting the leg cut out from diabetes
> is
> > normal. But eating fruits and vegetables is an
> > eating disorder. The sick teaching the healthy
> how
> > to be healthy.
>
>
> You make some good points which I agree with, but
> what about Sergei's comments? Doesn't this
> surprise you or were you already aware of this? I
> knew that Victoria was no longer all raw but I
> wasn't sure about her kids and I guess I assumed
> that they would at least be vegetarians, if not
> vegans, cooked or not. The thing that always
> throws me for a loop is going from 100% raw vegan
> to eating meat. I have been open with my not being
> vegan (although I have done it and plan to go
> beegan in the near future) but I cannot imagine
> ever eating meat again. I am having a hard enough
> time stomaching cheese and eggs, believe it or
> not. I am dropping them naturally, rather than
> forcing myself to do so prematurely. I actually
> agree with Sergei when he writes that about
> spending so much energy making a raw dish rather
> than throwing things together quickly. Of course,
> that doesn't mean you have to eat meat, for God's
> sake!

The literature says meat eaters are more overweight than vegetarians and vegans, and this may explain why Victoria is now very overweight. Here she is at the Ann Wigmore conference giving diet tips as a recognised expert. If she does eat meat, perhaps the habit is catchy in families.



[www.youtube.com]


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vegans eat their own.

Oh yes, many vegans do have sharp teeth. Many are cultish because they put so much emotion into their lifestyle, and they will attack and sink their fangs into people when they feel the need. The man with the biggest fangs is the bike rider we call DR...he chews them up and spits them out.

I tend to find vegans more agressive than your average meat eaters, but it seems to be the cult behaviour of many vegans that drives this behaviour.

A friend of mine said that many vegans think they are better than others and will judge very quickly. He said meat eaters are a breath of fresh air in comparison.

The vegan diet might be more calming, but on the surface there appears to be no evidence of this. Once again, it is the cultish behaviour of vegans which draws out the emotions imo. Some of the most angry people l have come across online are health minded people, and the ones who are most defensive and come on the attack are raw vegans. People have invested heavily in their beliefs and lifestyles, and it's hard to be told you are wrong or be questioned.

I have been alittle cheeky today.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 08:26AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Very true Temp. I think meat diets open the floodgates to other habits if one is not careful.

agreed with temp

Temp, I agree with you about the meat thing! In terms of VB, I cannot see that being the result of simply meat consumption.

But let me be clear here--her SON is saying he's now eating meat; NOT Victoria! Last I heard, she was telling David Wolfe that she had started eating steamed cabbage.

I think some (maybe most?) raw fooders are eating disordered perhaps. Like anorexia and bulemia specifically. So obesessing over food is second nature for them. And to gain such weight to me suggests binges. There are a couple of well-known high-raw fooders who delight in binging and even seem to suggest that it's a good thing. One of them comes from a background of bulemia/anorexia so in my mind, it is more of the same only with raw foods and other carbs.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Panchito Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I think the NYtimes always promotes meat and
> it
> > is
> > > anti plant base diets. It is refreshing to
> see
> > > that the mentality hasn't changed. There are
> > > thousands upon thousands of obese children
> from
> > > meat eating parents and nobody cries. But if
> a
> > > vegan kid gets sick, they call the police and
> > the
> > > fire department. Being fat and obese is the
> > normal
> > > standard. Usually the people pressing the
> alarm
> > > button are on medications, drugs, etc, and
> > think
> > > it is normal. Medication is normal.
> Scheduling
> > > doctor appointments is normal. Eating burgers
> > is
> > > normal. Socializing eating dead carcasses is
> > > normal. Getting the leg cut out from diabetes
> > is
> > > normal. But eating fruits and vegetables is
> an
> > > eating disorder. The sick teaching the
> healthy
> > how
> > > to be healthy.
> >
> >
> > You make some good points which I agree with,
> but
> > what about Sergei's comments? Doesn't this
> > surprise you or were you already aware of this?
> I
> > knew that Victoria was no longer all raw but I
> > wasn't sure about her kids and I guess I
> assumed
> > that they would at least be vegetarians, if not
> > vegans, cooked or not. The thing that always
> > throws me for a loop is going from 100% raw
> vegan
> > to eating meat. I have been open with my not
> being
> > vegan (although I have done it and plan to go
> > beegan in the near future) but I cannot imagine
> > ever eating meat again. I am having a hard
> enough
> > time stomaching cheese and eggs, believe it or
> > not. I am dropping them naturally, rather than
> > forcing myself to do so prematurely. I actually
> > agree with Sergei when he writes that about
> > spending so much energy making a raw dish
> rather
> > than throwing things together quickly. Of
> course,
> > that doesn't mean you have to eat meat, for
> God's
> > sake!
>
> The literature says meat eaters are more
> overweight than vegetarians and vegans, and this
> may explain why Victoria is now very overweight.
> Here she is at the Ann Wigmore conference giving
> diet tips as a recognised expert. If she does eat
> meat, perhaps the habit is catchy in families.
>
> [s30.postimg.org]
> .jpg
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
>
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vegans eat their own.
>
> Oh yes, many vegans do have sharp teeth. Many are
> cultish because they put so much emotion into
> their lifestyle, and they will attack and sink
> their fangs into people when they feel the need.
> The man with the biggest fangs is the bike
> rider we call DR...he chews them up and spits them
> out.
>
> I tend to find vegans more agressive than your
> average meat eaters, but it seems to be the cult
> behaviour of many vegans that drives this
> behaviour.
>
> A friend of mine said that many vegans think they
> are better than others and will judge very
> quickly. He said meat eaters are a breath of fresh
> air in comparison.
>
> The vegan diet might be more calming, but on the
> surface there appears to be no evidence of this.
> Once again, it is the cultish behaviour of vegans
> which draws out the emotions imo. Some of the most
> angry people l have come across online are health
> minded people, and the ones who are most defensive
> and come on the attack are raw vegans. People have
> invested heavily in their beliefs and lifestyles,
> and it's hard to be told you are wrong or be
> questioned.
>
> I have been alittle cheeky today.


Some of the most laid back and least seemingly crazy people I run into in real life are not only meat eaters but actual hunters. I don't get it.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some of the most laid back and least
> seemingly
> > crazy people I run into in real life are not
> only
> > meat eaters but actual hunters. I don't get it.
>
> Optimal zinc/copper balance is one of the main
> reasons most likely in my opinion.


Maybe, maybe not. I've talked with a very laid back person who's copper levels were through the roof due to her spleen having been removed.

Anyone know, off hand, herbs, essential oils, etc., which have a reputation for helping support spleen function?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Some of the most laid back and least seemingly
> crazy people I run into in real life are not only
> meat eaters but actual hunters. I don't get it.


Yep. And some of the most agressive people online have been people on high fruit diets (raw vegans). I am not the only one to notice it, and l think it goes much further than high copper levels. I think it is blood sugar problems, and possibly other nutritional deficiencies. .

I remember eating nothing but fruit for 3 days and had to stop because my mood became very snippy and completely out of character. I remember being in the car and someone honked his horn at me and l stuck my head out the window and roared my head off at him. I was shocked and disgusted at my behaviour and ended the fruit binge immediately because it turned me into a madman. After getting off the fruit l became mentally balanced again. If someone wants to cut me off in traffic l let them do so because l know people are stressed and selfish so l expect such poor behaviour, so they are welcome to push in if they want.

I think high fruit diets can negatively effect some people. I've observed this for years and have no doubt that high fruit diets are responsible for the poor behaviour of some. I also observe lots of defensiveness and ego among some of the people consuming diets high in fruit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 11:05PM by The Sproutarian Man.

temp-->"...those with copper/zinc balances are often manic, overly-stimulated, anxious, aggressive, paranoid, using anger or other emotions such as fear to stimulate their adrenal glands and sympathetic nervous system etc. "


This was you right before you took this last break from the forum. You shat all over your good friend and confidant Suez and her diet. Suez, to her credit, rose above the shat and took the high road and advised you to take a break from the forum. Must have been an embarrassing apology by PM later.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This was you right before you took this last break
> from the forum. You shat all over your good friend
> and confidant Suez and her diet. Suez, to her
> credit, rose above the shat and took the high road
> and advised you to take a break from the forum.
> Must have been an embarrassing apology by PM
> later.


I don't remember it or see it like that and got no PM.

Anon, your motive for posting is more in evidence than anything you are pushing out of your keyboard and it stinks to high heaven. IMO.

From Nick Good:

Eventually, mankind will eat little or no meat. However, that will come only when a stronger heart and a greater refinement of physical energies can produce hormones and nutrients which cannot be manufactured by most people at this time. It is pointless to feel guilty about eating meat when you need it. Vegetarian ideals should not be prematurely enforced on people who are not ready for them. It is far more important that people awaken in their own hearts and decide which direction to go in as they look for greater health. Meanwhile, you will benefit more by gratitude and appreciation for those who have bestowed the bounties of life upon you. For I assure you, it is not by food that you are nourished, but by love. A humble meal that is beautifully prepared with love and shared in loving company is more nourishing than vegetarian cuisine eaten on the run. No combination matters if love is not the central ingredient. The major cause of overweight, malnutrition, and dietary diseases is loveless meals from unloved plants and unloved animals, grown on an unloved earth. There is no coincidence that such problems have increased in proportion to lifestyles of hasty and obsessive eating.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Nick Good:
>
> Eventually, mankind will eat little or no meat.
> However, that will come only when a stronger heart
> and a greater refinement of physical energies can
> produce hormones and nutrients which cannot be
> manufactured by most people at this time. It is
> pointless to feel guilty about eating meat when
> you need it. Vegetarian ideals should not be
> prematurely enforced on people who are not ready
> for them. It is far more important that people
> awaken in their own hearts and decide which
> direction to go in as they look for greater
> health. Meanwhile, you will benefit more by
> gratitude and appreciation for those who have
> bestowed the bounties of life upon you. For I
> assure you, it is not by food that you are
> nourished, but by love. A humble meal that is
> beautifully prepared with love and shared in
> loving company is more nourishing than vegetarian
> cuisine eaten on the run. No combination matters
> if love is not the central ingredient. The major
> cause of overweight, malnutrition, and dietary
> diseases is loveless meals from unloved plants and
> unloved animals, grown on an unloved earth. There
> is no coincidence that such problems have
> increased in proportion to lifestyles of hasty and
> obsessive eating.

Oh God. I just looked at this nitwit's website. He even 'group thinks' the occupy movement is gaining steam.

I wonder if they are cleaning up their Google references because I see that the parents may have gotten divorced but when I try to get it substantiated, it's hard to find.

Sergei is the one who is diabetic, right? I heard that he eats meat because he is diabetic. The diabetes probably has a lot to do with why he gets hungry on a raw vegan (high carb) diet, too.
And not to beat the meat issue to death, but there is a huge difference in the health of people who eat an omnivorous diet including meat v. people who eat a low carb diet that contains meat. People who eat meat + 'whatever' can and often do have horrible health, because one can't digest starch and protein at the same time.
People who eat meat + vegetables, however, are usually healthy and lean.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

you don't like meat?

don't eat it

problem solved

completely

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sergei is the one who is diabetic, right? I heard
> that he eats meat because he is diabetic. The
> diabetes probably has a lot to do with why he gets
> hungry on a raw vegan (high carb) diet, too.
> And not to beat the meat issue to death, but there
> is a huge difference in the health of people who
> eat an omnivorous diet including meat v. people
> who eat a low carb diet that contains meat. People
> who eat meat + 'whatever' can and often do have
> horrible health, because one can't digest starch
> and protein at the same time.
> People who eat meat + vegetables, however, are
> usually healthy and lean.

"Beat the meat" issue..Pardon the pun, I presume?

In any case Kwan, my post was not to put down meat-eaters in general. I have Victoria's book--"12 Steps"--and she was very clear about how the raw vegan diet HEALED all those dis-eases or dis-orders that she and her family were suffering from. So I do believe this is a significant development, especially after subsequent books by them advocating the same diet. And if a person is hungry on 100% raw, are you honestly telling me that there are no vegan higher protein alternatives? Beans? Nuts? Grains? I get that some people are very sensitive to digestion issues, but I cannot accept that meat is easier for them to digest than vegan items.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2014 05:49PM by banana who.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sergei is the one who is diabetic, right? I heard
> that he eats meat because he is diabetic. The
> diabetes probably has a lot to do with why he gets
> hungry on a raw vegan (high carb) diet, too.
> And not to beat the meat issue to death, but there
> is a huge difference in the health of people who
> eat an omnivorous diet including meat v. people
> who eat a low carb diet that contains meat. People
> who eat meat + 'whatever' can and often do have
> horrible health, because one can't digest starch
> and protein at the same time.
> People who eat meat + vegetables, however, are
> usually healthy and lean.


Apparently he had Type 1 diabetes, and claims he healed it by going raw.