>
>
> Apparently he had Type 1 diabetes, and claims he
> healed it by going raw.

Exactly! I don't know why anyone should argue with me about this. This is not some simplistic post about the evils of eating meat. This is about people who went public and for years touted the raw vegan lifestyle as being the CURE for all their ills and quietly went against that eventually. I remember when Victoria came out with that book about the green smoothie revolution and how they added greens and the chimps eating them...It seems that after several years being 100% raw they hit the wall and started feeling less than okay.

More than anything I think this points to the fact that anyone who touts ANY particular diet may one day have to eat his or her words. Maybe our bodies require different things at different times. Maybe it's not as cut-and-dried as some try to make it out to be. Maybe it is more complicated and not simply about the foods that we choose. But I have VB's book on the "12 Steps to Get Off Raw Foods" and it's the first edition. She has said that she wishes she could burn all those copies because she feels she was too dogmatic about being 100% raw. There is a lesson in there somewhere...

banana who

<<There is a lesson in there somewhere...>>

the lesson is - if it works for you , do it

if it doesn't work for you, don't do it

no argument here

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the end of the day 99% of individuals who
> follow a raw food diet come to the same conclusion
> in the end, which is that it doesn't work.

Tavis' Conductivity Diet isn't hard to stay on. It's also very portable so traveling while on it isn't a problem.

"However many of us did diligently try eating this way strictly for however long and almost everyone of us concluded that it was bad for health for whatever number of reasons."

You and who?

"At the end of the day 99% of individuals who follow a raw food diet come to the same conclusion in the end, which is that it doesn't work."

Statistics brought to you by the imagination of temp.


David Wolfe, Matt Monarch, Mimi Kirk, Annette Larkins, Fred Bisci all must be superhuman for being 100% raw. Brian Clement and Steve Meyerowitz must be superhuman for being 100% vegan.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dM1iU5e33k - This guy is so emaciated.

"If you think even half of them examples are strict vegan then you'd be in for a shock id bet.

Am i saying 100% veganism isn't possible ? I was strict vegan myself for 3+ years and survived, are you living with all these people you mention to know that they are eating zero animal foods ?

Course your not. So how you can accurately try to account for these peoples diets, is imagination at best..."

I get it man, they're all liars and it's impossible to thrive on a 100% raw or 100% vegan diet. Thanks for enlightening me.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> temp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At the end of the day 99% of individuals who
> > follow a raw food diet come to the same
> conclusion
> > in the end, which is that it doesn't work.
>
> Tavis' Conductivity Diet isn't hard to stay on.
> It's also very portable so traveling while on it
> isn't a problem.

I have gained 3 lbs. on it in the past year so that's one thing my doctor will be happy about. Last year he said I should gain 5 lbs. I plan to remind him of that just after I tell him how much fat I eat. Lol.

"Last year he said I should gain 5 lbs. I plan to remind him of that just after I tell him how much fat I eat. Lol."

Does he think eating fat makes you fat or something? When is the 'Conductivity Diet' moment of truth?

"You become more like a sproutarian version of the 80/10/10 trolls by the day."

John Rose calls you a troll and he's insane. You call me a troll and it's acceptable... makes sense. Actually, a troll would be more along the lines of going to a raw food website and in every other post talking about how raw food diets aren't sustainable or nutritionally adequate.

"What i am claiming is that you buy into the words of raw gurus far too easily, without any question. To the point you are convinced whatever these gurus say without exercising any critical thought whatsoever. Its almost the same as me saying i know what Brad Pitts diet is without even knowing him, you are buying into interview clippings as if you live with these gurus. You know nothing of how these people really live and neither do I."

And you think they're all lying, cool. Have fun with that.

"No i claimed you were like these sort of individuals because you can't make your point without becoming abusive. Id actually be interested in what you had to say if you could make your point without being a jerk."

"In that sense you are no different to any of the other true believers or trolls on the forum. You can't make your point without resorting to personal insults."

I'd really love to know at what point I "abused" you or "insulted" you. You called me a troll, I never called you anything. You literally just insulted me and then claimed I insulted you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2014 10:24PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Does he think eating fat makes you fat or
> something?

He has no idea what I'm doing until I've done it and told him. Then he writes out a form for me to take to the lab based on what he thinks I should have tested and, sometimes, what I tell him to write.


When is the 'Conductivity Diet' moment
> of truth?

First I have to make an appt. and go to the hospital for lab work. I have to wait for someone to get back from Europe in a few weeks to do that. I am tardy by a few months for my yearly but I'm in no hurry.

JT--"John Rose calls you a troll and he's insane. You call me a troll and it's acceptable... makes sense. Actually, a troll would be more along the lines of going to a raw food website and in every other post talking about how raw food diets aren't sustainable or nutritionally adequate."


Ditto

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JT--"John Rose calls you a troll and he's insane.
> You call me a troll and it's acceptable... makes
> sense. Actually, a troll would be more along the
> lines of going to a raw food website and in every
> other post talking about how raw food diets aren't
> sustainable or nutritionally adequate."
>
>
> Ditto

Yep.

Also, LMAO at the made up statistic of 99%! hehehehe
Unfortunately, some trolls have more free time than others so their posts are more frequent than the regular users of the board who follow the rules/aren't supposed to be banned.

"Take your pick from recent postings, you've called me brain dead, jealous, illiterate, effectively stupid because im supposedly so mercury toxic. Id say these were insults and examples of what you resort to just to make your point."

I never called you these, I suggested they were possibilities based on what you write. I never resort to insults to make my point. Besides, that had nothing to do with this specific conversation. In fact, you're the one insulting everyone's lifestyle's, telling (lying) them a 100% raw vegan diet is impossible and nutritionally inadequate without supplements and that they are going to fail.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon 102 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JT--"John Rose calls you a troll and he's
> insane.
> > You call me a troll and it's acceptable...
> makes
> > sense. Actually, a troll would be more along
> the
> > lines of going to a raw food website and in
> every
> > other post talking about how raw food diets
> aren't
> > sustainable or nutritionally adequate."
> >
> >
> > Ditto
>
> Yep.
>
> Also, LMAO at the made up statistic of 99%!
> hehehehe
> Unfortunately, some trolls have more free time
> than others so their posts are more frequent than
> the regular users of the board who follow the
> rules/aren't supposed to be banned.

Lol give me a break, your supporting one of the biggest and most abusive trolls this site has ever had in anon102, one whos been banned previously for actual trolling yet still comes here to just to wind/troll things up.

A differing of opinion on a subject isn't trolling. Then again i know how sensitive some of you vegans can be, ask Doug Graham a few questions on his elusive super diet and its called "bashing", "attacking" and "trolling".



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2014 04:13PM by temp.

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana who
>
> <>
>
> the lesson is - if it works for you , do it
>
> if it doesn't work for you, don't do it
>
> no argument here

LaV, I usually appreciate your Zen slant to everything but I really feel like you are not engaging my post and kind of blowing it off actually by oversimplying it. I have been a vegetarian for 29 years and no matter how many people "fall off the wagon," it doesn't shake me up because I never resonated with eating meat when I actually did it! I never feel that I digested it well and I ate it for 19 years.

If you really feel that way about what I wrote, then maybe we should never post anything because who really cares in the end? Do it or don't do it.

All I was trying to discuss is the validity of the argument that one needs meat to function in any way. I mean, you could add eggs for certain nutrients that you might have trouble getting from a vegan diet but meat? I am not convinced that anyone needs it, especially to cure diabetes!

jolita brilliant went 801010 for a small time then gain some weight. Then she went paleo ("to get all the missing nutrients" and now is overweight. She has taken down the "health coach" message from her blog. The moment she started 80101 she was a self proclaim 801010 guru. Then she went paleo and overnight she was a paleo guru. Now she is overweight an she is not a guru anymore. Is there a moral of the story?

Jolita anything but Brilliant seems to have found her true calling...

[www.youtube.com]

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jolita brilliant went 801010 for a small time then
> gain some weight. Then she went paleo ("to get all
> the missing nutrients" and now is overweight. She
> has taken down the "health coach" message from her
> blog. The moment she started 80101 she was a self
> proclaim 801010 guru. Then she went paleo and
> overnight she was a paleo guru. Now she is
> overweight an she is not a guru anymore. Is there
> a moral of the story?



----
some people want to be a "guru" and will try anything to become one.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jolita brilliant went 801010 for a small time then
> gain some weight. Then she went paleo ("to get all
> the missing nutrients" and now is overweight. She
> has taken down the "health coach" message from her
> blog. The moment she started 80101 she was a self
> proclaim 801010 guru. Then she went paleo and
> overnight she was a paleo guru. Now she is
> overweight an she is not a guru anymore. Is there
> a moral of the story?

It's amazing how people become gurus after such a short period of time. People want fame and glory quickly these days, but if you become a guru by the internet you can also be sunk by the internet. So if you are going to be a big guru online you better have some idea what you are talking about, because if you don't, many folks will tear you down and expose you. Easy rise, easy fall. People can't deceive people so easily now, they will get caught out. I think many raw gurus are now starting to realise this. Even Dr Clement realises and is trying to lift his game, that's why he has released a book containing sprout science, he admitted this. If gurus don't get their act togeather it will only get worse and worse for them...put your head in the sand at your own peril - they might continue making the money out of niave people, but their reputations will take a trashing. If you haven't got an honourable reputation you have got very little...you are basically nobody.

temp asked for a permanent ban, and I have obliged him.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> temp asked for a permanent ban, and I have obliged
> him.


He asked again? It seemed he had changed his mind.

Maybe utopian life or panchito requested it again "on his behalf". Otherwise, that's quite a lag time.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jolita brilliant went 801010 for a small time then
> gain some weight. Then she went paleo ("to get all
> the missing nutrients" and now is overweight. She
> has taken down the "health coach" message from her
> blog. The moment she started 80101 she was a self
> proclaim 801010 guru. Then she went paleo and
> overnight she was a paleo guru. Now she is
> overweight an she is not a guru anymore. Is there
> a moral of the story?

She seems to have forgotten everything and is now promoting DIY glitter glue and crayon lipstick as non-toxic and harmless. There will be kids that get hurt following her nonsense.

Avoid guru wannabes like the plague. They are probably all narcissistic sociopathic people pleasing exhibitionists who care more about their reputations than the truth.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2014 02:46PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid guru wannabes like the plague. They are
> probably all narcissistic sociopathic people
> pleasing exhibitionists who care more about their
> reputations than the truth.


That is the what can happen when people get a public following, it goes to their heads and they change. It is easy to pick up on that negative vibration put out by many of the raw gurus, but not all are like that. For eg, John Kohler is a breath of fresh air, he doesn't try to be a hero, he behaves like a normal man.

When people become raw food leaders they must resist the temptation to bask in their own glory, because if they don't they will lose more than they could ever dream of in terms of spiritual development. The temptation of basking in fame and glory is the test to see who the children are v's the adults....only the adults pass the test and move through the process and up to the higher cycles.

Fame can inflict so much damage on people because it often brings on the illusion of ego. It is poison to the spirit.

We all will and have had those opportunities, and when they come again we must be able to see it for what it really is, a test to see if we are ready for the big game. If we become full of ego we fail and remain children of the cosmos and not far removed from animals in human suits.

I'm not trying to be mean at all. But to me, Victoria Boutenko never looked like a good example of looking good and healthy on raw food.
In my mind, I even wondered if she truly ate what she said she did, when she did all her raw books. She was always bloated, maybe she had a disease that I'm not aware of and that was the best it was gonna get, I dunno.
Of course, the kids looked good and her husband did as well.
They must have separated or divorced at some time, but I never heard anything about it, it was like it was not even mentioned.
It doesn't take away from the great books they did as a family, and I enjoyed them immensely, but to me it shows that their diet wasn't sustainable for the long term, and it certainly doesn't heal every life issue i.e. the separation or divorce.
Maybe they could have added in sprouts or something more nutritious. I'm not an expert or anything so I'm not looking for an argument I'm just adding my observation to the conversation.

Ivi rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not trying to be mean at all. But to me,
> Victoria Boutenko never looked like a good example
> of looking good and healthy on raw food.
> In my mind, I even wondered if she truly ate what
> she said she did, when she did all her raw books.
> She was always bloated, maybe she had a disease
> that I'm not aware of and that was the best it was
> gonna get, I dunno.
> Of course, the kids looked good and her husband
> did as well.
> They must have separated or divorced at some time,
> but I never heard anything about it, it was like
> it was not even mentioned.
> It doesn't take away from the great books they did
> as a family, and I enjoyed them immensely, but to
> me it shows that their diet wasn't sustainable for
> the long term, and it certainly doesn't heal every
> life issue i.e. the separation or divorce.
> Maybe they could have added in sprouts or
> something more nutritious. I'm not an expert or
> anything so I'm not looking for an argument I'm
> just adding my observation to the conversation.


You know what? I never focused on her appearance at all. I loved her message, although as I stated earlier, her first edition of "12 Steps" was pretty strident and not as helpful as it could have been. She admitted as much. But I know another raw fooder (who I think doesn't cheat) who is not a Skinny Minnie and sometimes it might be frame size. Not everyone is petite/small-boned.

Really, everyone is not petite/small boned? I thought they were. LOL

The rest of the Boutenkos looked healthy and vibrant to me.

She did not. Perhaps there was some disease she was battling.

Ivi rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, everyone is not petite/small boned? I
> thought they were. LOL
>
> The rest of the Boutenkos looked healthy and
> vibrant to me.
>
> She did not. Perhaps there was some disease she
> was battling.


I am assuming you are being sarcastic? I think there are people who believe that everyone SHOULD be petite--yes, I do. I think a lot of eating disorders are caused by people thinking they should look like something else. It's possible to be very healthy and not be rail-thin. It's worth repeating and I was surprised when I heard rumblings about Victoria because it never even crossed my mind. Now I do wonder but not at first.

Yeah I was being sarcastic, it truly never dawned on me that someone might think you have to be rail thin to be healthy. But, now that you said I,t you are probably correct that some people see health that way.
For me, some signs of health would be clear eyes, perhaps some sort of natural color or shine to the face. Vibrancy in the persons demeanor. I know it when I see it, but Can't really describe an all encompassing list.
Rail thinness is not on my list, but now I see where it may be on others.

That is such a bummer, thanks for posting.

Man. I feel bad. Hey we all over the years slip and slide, fall in and out. I am thinking this is his coming of age manhood stage.

He will fall back into raw again and wonder why he left or wrote an article like that. I bet you!

I love all his books, met him, heard him speak, he was a teenager living in today's crazy world, with peers and friends, parties etc. I thought when I saw him, he was not 100% raw. Or heard rumor. This was a long long time ago.

When his dad left the family, that may have triggered something in him. I heard something about him leaving to live on a beach in Hawaii...

Kids always rebel too.

( Did you know he dated Freelea before Harley?)





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2014 10:45PM by coconutcream.

Please, I have never liked eating meat growing up and I am much taller than my parents and grandma who ate alot of meat.