"They also talk about toxins in sprouts, but they never talk about how we can chelate various toxins using foods and how we can use foods to induce enzymatic reactions in the body to break down these toxins."

Well I'll talk about it. It is another of the many reasons why, for especially broccoli sprout eaters, it is just plain stupid to drink urine.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Help! My goiter is killing me!


Do you imagine that if you have a thyroid problem you would know it because you would show symptoms like growing a goiter? Can you be that mind-numbingly ignorant or is this something "the finger" told you and you swallowed whole?

It was a joke sue. What is it about you that is so adversarial?

It was in relation to the alleged nonexistence of iodine in the nh diet and yet no symptoms of any kind and superlative health for 30 years.

But of course I am lying or deficient or insane right?

but if youre so intent on repeatedly accusing me of being ignorant to feed your ego, then yes, according to you I am mind numbingly ignorant.

there. Feel better?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2014 03:36PM by fresh.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> but if youre so intent on repeatedly accusing me
> of being ignorant to feed your ego,

I don't want anyone to imagine that if they don't have a goiter their thyroid must be doing ok. Most people who are low in iodine and/or have thyroid problems are asymptomatic. Remember - a lot of people who are interested in learning about raw food diets are young and impressionable to things that sound logical but are ridiculously ignorant otherwise people like "the finger" would have no following.


> there. Feel better?

A little. For now.

Suez canal,

I hardly think its necessary for you to fact check every statement on the internet especially the clearly exaggerated ones, to insure that some newbie does not injure themself.

And asymptomatic is just that, and may indicate that alleged requirements are too high, just as spouter and pringle cant seem to understand.


Good point regarding urine and broc sprouts. Falls on deaf ears though.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suez canal,
>
> I hardly think its necessary for you to fact check
> every statement on the internet especially the
> clearly exaggerated ones, to insure that some
> newbie does not injure themself.


You've got to be kidding. Newbies hurt themselves all the time over crap info that fool "the finger" tells them.



> And asymptomatic is just that, and may indicate
> that alleged requirements are too high,


Ok, there you go again with an ignorant, no downright stupid, out of left field comment. No wonder you wish nobody to fact check you.

You need mental help, sue, really.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need mental help, sue, really.




Anyone who says something like this has no idea what they are talking about ...


"And asymptomatic is just that, and may indicate
that alleged requirements are too high,"


Fresh - that would be you. You are only fooling yourself and possibly people who want you to be right but have no real understanding of what you're saying.

Mmm just enjoyed a nice 18 oz green drink (4 oz broccoli sprouts, 4 oz wheatgrass, 10 oz sunflower greens)

you are correct sue, it was a poor sentence, yet your zeal to repeatedly and ceaselessly criticize pointlessly is rather sad.

." Most people who are low in iodine and/or have thyroid problems are asymptomatic"

the above would be you.

and you clearly do not know what asymptomatic means.

so stop confusing the newbies, ok?

asymptomatic means without symptoms. no symptoms.

what YOU mean is, people sometimes have thyroid issues, WITH SYMPTOMS, but they do not connect those symptoms to the organic dysfunction. if you do not have symptoms, then you do not have a thyroid problem.

you must be confusing being a disease carrier (and asymptomatic) with difficult to discern thyroid symptoms.

now set your mind on more productive things here and stop being distracting.

"if you do not have symptoms, then you do not have a thyroid problem"

So why doesn't everyone following the SAD have deficiency symptoms?

Oh, look...

[www.nhlbi.nih.gov]

"The signs and symptoms of iron-deficiency anemia depend on its severity. Mild to moderate iron-deficiency anemia may have no signs or symptoms."

[www.ancient-minerals.com]

"Magnesium deficiency itself is sometimes referred to as “asymptomatic” or “showing no outward signs”.

[www.health.harvard.edu]

"Vitamin B12 deficiency can be slow to develop, causing symptoms to appear gradually and intensify over time. It can also come on relatively quickly." - So you can be deficient and feel no deficiency symptoms and it can strike without warning.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2014 11:27PM by jtprindl.

Talking about thyroid. Stay on point Pringle.

"Talking about thyroid. Stay on point Pringle."

This is what you said here (http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/read.php?2,243111,page=2) - "I believe you have stated this innumerable times. I don't know why you keep repeating it. And your statement is incorrect." in response to 'No deficiency =/= no symptoms'... and you were just shown that you are the one who is incorrect.

Plus, my question still applies to the thyroid. Why doesn't everyone who follows the SAD have thyroid deficiency symptoms when undoubtedly many of them are deficient in iodine?

General observations

1). I am quite surprised that the N.H diet was able to reach the rda for calcium.

2). The biggest weakness in the N.H diet is clearly the low levels of iron and zinc, l see this as a very big problem with the diet. None-the-less, the vitamin C in the food will help iron absorption and hopefully it can act as a buffer to keeping excess copper more in check...but is it enough? Also, the zinc starved N.H person will have a better capacity to absorb the mineral, BUT...is this enough??? I don't think this is an optimal situation to be in because these diet deficiencies could lead to EPA/DHA problems, and the lack of iodine could be problematic too. The last thing we want is 70 year old N.H folks running around with nametags because they forget their names. I am serious...people need to be aware of this....this is more of a longer term problem, and if anyone is suffering mental vagueness they might want to look into B12, iodine, EPA/DHA, zinc deficiencies etc. The potential problem of mental vagueness and elevated homocysteine are the real problems l see, especially the mental problems that can raise their head after decades of nutritional neglect.

3). The N.H diet has low levels of selenium

4). The N.H diet has very high levels of potassium, far higher than the sproutarian diet. The sprout diet gets over the rda, but we need to be consuming those green juices to keep it up.

I have been crunching some more numbers for minerals and will give basic results. Crunching the numbers for vitamins was impossible due to not enough info for the sprout diet being available.


Note: these figures are just general figures not to be taken as 100% fact because figures can vary wildly from one analysis to the next due to measuring techniques, seasons, the time of measuring etc. None-the-less, it is interesting to get some small insight into how the two diets may compare. One thing we do know is that gram to gram the sprout diet is far more nutritious and a person is strongly recommended to consume a good deal of sprouts each day, especially those microgreens, sprouted chia, seaweeds and algaes.


N.H diet = 58% zinc, 88% iron, 114% calcium, 298% magnesium, iodine 0 – 1% (558)

Sproutarian diet = 171% zinc, 434% iron, 183% calcium, 369% magnesium, iodine 100% + (1257 +)


N.H diet = 116% phos, 449% potassium, 198% copper, 563% manganese, 41% selenium (1367)

Sproutarian = 333% phos, 113% potassium, 249% copper, 541% manganese, 62% + 76% = 138% selenium (1374) (selenium value for chia taken off sunflower, but l understand chia is a very high source)


The sproutarian diet is very high in copper, but the extremely high zinc and iron levels would be more than capable to deal with it, where-as the N.H diet hasn't got the high levels of zinc and iron to deal so well with the high copper levels.

I will post some studies another day on the advantages of a diet higher in protein and fat.

www.thesproutarian.com

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So why doesn't everyone following the SAD have
> deficiency symptoms?

And the scarey thing is that when many struggling N.H folks go back to meat and/or eggs their health improves. This is a warning sign. If people are going to go vegan most need to really work on getting good full spectrum nutrition to make up for the stuff missing in animal products...we cannot under estimate this. I hear most vegans last no longer than 7 years.

The point is, the vegan diet is a tough job, and the raw vegan diet is far tougher to make work, so don't underestimate the diet and do all you can to get good nutrition via the more beefed up foods. People seem to get scared of eating nuts and seeds saying they are too hard on digestion, but l say, improve your digestion and you'll be o.k....if people can eat meat and live quite healthfully like the long lived cultures, then vegans can handle nuts and seeds if they improve their digestion via probiotic ferments.

Some extra fat is not so bad either, especially when a diet is high in anti-oxidants and has good levels of omega 3's and polyunsaturated fats and zinc/iron, B9, calcium, copper, and not too high levels of omega 6's and mono fats. This can be talked about more later on. Still...we don't want to overdo the fat.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 12:04AM by The Sproutarian Man.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talking about thyroid. Stay on point Pringle.


Talking about asymptomatic. You're not tracking, fresh.

"I once fasted on nothing but urine, algaes, seaweeds, fermented water and green juices for 3 - 4 months from morning to night and only had one meal per day, but l found l was starting to lose weight and had to go back to the regular two meals."

Why are you considering toning it down? By fermented water, do you mean rejuvelac? In the future I plan on doing a 10-day juice fast (plus psyillium husk) while getting a colon hydrotherapy session each day. Hopefully I can talk down the colon hydrotherapist a bit on the pricing lol.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> 4. and you do realize that you reported iodine of
> zero for the NH diet when you apparently don't
> know that it is highly variable and based upon
> soil and other amendments and as such is not
> reported.

Iodine deficient soils are reported to effect almost 3 billion people. O.k, l will give you 50 points for iodine (I really should only give 20 lol , but no more than that sir. You are highly likely to be under the rda for iodine.


>
> 5. answer my question 2 above that you
> conveniently ignored.
> how do you know anything about assimilation of
> nutrients?
>
>
> the S diet has lower assimilation due to various
> factors including anti nutrients and difficult to
> digest elements as compared to what you think is
> the natural hygiene diet (there is no such thing
> as a natural hygiene diet).



There are strategies to greatly help these issues. I never used to be able to digest sprouts very well, but with a long term strategy l am able to do a good job of digesting those sprouts, even the raw legume and grain sprouts. Ferments, bacterias, enzymes, sulfated polysaccaharide sugars etc help these things, it is called building up the body to be able to break open the food matrix, and called chelating those nasty anti nutrients and breaking down anti nutrients via inducing internal enzymatic reactions through full spectrum nutrition. And please note, many of those anti-nutrients are extremely beneficial, but the key is to be able to build the body up to a state where it can effectively deal with them. If you can open that matrix up and deal with toxins and anti-nutrients you have powerful treasures at your disposal. I have spent much time on finding the secrets to opening this matrix, and it has worked wonders and the treasure has been flowing with delightful glory. Others employing these methods also report good success.


Yes Fresh, you may have an anti-nutrient deficiency. Best not to be scared of them, deal with them by building up the body by inducing internal enzymatic reactions and probiotic foods. Prebiotic foods are never enough for many.

Once again Fresh...no need to be a big chicken and be scared of anti-nutrients (I used to be). Use these things to your advantage. We can tame the savage beast we call the anti nutrient. They may have sharp teeth, but we can strengthen our armour and make them our servants instead of our enemies.

The anti nutrients exist to test our metal. If the smell weakness they will chew you up and spit you out. If you are tough they will fall under your control. Bless the anti nutrients, for many of them are our friends.



>
> so here are the adjusted numbers due to cutting
> the assimilation by half for the S diet and
> doubling the amounts for the nh diet due to
> actually putting in real foods instead of apples
> and apricots and also item 3. above.
>
> old N.H diet = 58% zinc, 88% iron, 114% calcium,
> 298% magnesium, iodine 0 – 1% (558)
>
> actual NH diet = 116% zinc, 176% iron,
> 228%calcium, 600% magnesium, iodine, who knows?
>
> old Sproutarian diet = 171% zinc, 434% iron, 183%
> calcium, 369% magnesium, iodine 100% + (1257 +)
>
> actual S die = 85% zinc, 217% iron, 91% calcium,
> 180% mag, iodine - too much
>


Very very cute, it put a big smile on my face. But remember...unripe fruit (much of it is not properly ripe) has tannins too, and are the prebiotics from fruits and veggies enough to stop the tannin binding of iron and zinc? It's possible your bioavailability of those nutrients is being compromised more than you think. Tannins are very funny things...tannin binding in food can greatly vary.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 03:19AM by The Sproutarian Man.

tsm,

smiles are always good.

developed countries are not subject to iodine issues due to the wide variety of foods eaten from various locales.

I certainly do not deny that iodine can be an issue in some areas.

what I meant regarding assimilation is that people say, look at these numbers, I'm getting my nutrients! but we have no idea what is being assimilated. unless prindl will spring for those spectracells at 400 a pop.

as i have said, no symptoms and no bad test results. but you sprout eaters think everyone is deficient except for you.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> developed countries are not subject to iodine
> issues due to the wide variety of foods eaten from
> various locales.

You seem to be on a marathon of clueless dg - "the finger", parroting style posting. Really, fresh, you should have followed anon, your smarter less unpleasant tag team member offline to go watch TV instead of pirouetting on in your dunce cap. You are annoying.

For everyone else a brief study of PERCHLORATE will lead to more of the truth of what we are really facing.

Yes, that quoted part does not make much sense. I wasn't going to bother making comment, but since you did, l have decided to also.

Me would think the costal areas are probably the areas with more iodine in the soils, and if you are vegan and living inland there is likely going a problem with iodine. And low and behold, a quick look at the scholar research confirms my idea on this.

"Iodine-deficient soils are common in inland regions, mountainous areas, and places with frequent flooding"
[scholar.google.com.au]

www.thesproutarian.com

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> For everyone else a brief study of PERCHLORATE
> will lead to more of the truth of what we are
> really facing.


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[thyroid.about.com]

[thyroid.about.com]

[www.sciencedaily.com]

[en.wikipedia.org]

Suez

the all knowing, all seeing, all controlling one.

all others should bow before her.

There is no doubt that the sproutarian diat is more nutritious than
the fruitarian one. But the question is if one is willing to do all the hard work to grow all of those sprouts.The more time is spent growing food=less time
for family and career. It probably depends what your priorities are.
But I think that a short term frutarian diat can be extremely healing due to the lymphatic qualities. According to Dr Morse,fruit makes the lymph move again and that is why he heals cancer patients all time (lymphatic issue due to all the dairy and meat). In my opinion it would be wise on his part to add things like wheatgrass and fenugreek greens to his protocoll because these are very powerful lymphatic adstringents. His videos on YouTube are very educational and Dr. Morse can explain his treatment method to a baby. It seems very simple to understand. Although he claims that many problems are due to acidosis (not quite sure on that because I have not seen any scientific studies on this topic).He also seems very energetic on the fruit diat.
Dan Mcdonald seems to also look very vibrant on fruit.
I think it is also very important to take into consideration where you live.
The fruit in Canada,Russia or Alaska will not be the same as in the US or Costa Rica.

Welcome to the forum ecomm.

People often think a healing diet makes a good long term diet. I don't think it is wise to buy into such thinking. People may get well on long fasts or fruit diets, but is it a good idea to sustain such activity in the long term?

Dr Morse brings up many seriously questions about his credibility. He says raw vegans get no deficencies, really? He is a lovely man and some speak well of his healing methods, but he has had his knowledge and credibilty seriously questioned on a certain website.

I notice the site which questioned Dr Morse' credibility by posing decent questions (30BAD sucks) has been taken down.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2014 09:01AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Well yes ,it seems like he has a very old school way of thinking in terms of nutrition. I recall him saying that he studied the old natural hygiene books (like Arnold Ehret).
But at his time there was no Internet,so you can`t blaim him .
He once even underwent a six month orange juice fast.
That is pretty crazy,but the fruit was way more nutritious back then.
I really find his treatment protocolls interesting.
He frequently states that many of his patients start regrowing tissue after a thorogh detox (like new teeth).
I wonder what would happen to a body if you would go on a microgreen detox. That would probably be even more powerful than fruit.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > For everyone else a brief study of
> PERCHLORATE
> > will lead to more of the truth of what we are
> > really facing.
>
>
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
>
> [thyroid.about.com]
> chlorate.htm
>
> [thyroid.about.com]
> tm
>
> [www.sciencedaily.com]
> 8095714.htm
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]



[www.scientificamerican.com]

[www.reuters.com]

Non sprouted sesame seeds are well known to be a low source of vitamin E and are very high in fat (almost 50% fat).
[nutritiondata.self.com]

But look at what happens when you sprout them. Fat levels decline from roughly 50% to 23% after 4 days opf sprouting. BUT, vitamin E goes from roughly 1% rda to 200% rda. Lots of other things going on in the seed too.

Effects of germination on chemical composition and functional properties of sesame (Sesamum indicum L.) seeds

Hahm TS, Park SJ
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


People may say it is still high fat, but there are solutions to everything. The key is to sprout the seeds to lower fat levels, ferment nuts one day per week to lower fat levels, have higher polyunsaturated - monounsaturated fat ratios and to have more favourable omega 3 - 6 ratios, and to have plenty of fresh greens and low fat sprouts. Yes...l do have the studies to prove the protection of altering the fat profiles in higher fat diets along with having more fresh low fat foods, l am working on a nice little essay at the moment and am enjoying writing it. Writing about fat is so much fun.

www.thesproutarian.com