hello everyone, first post here. have lurked here for a while and finally decided to create an account.


i've been raw for six months now, after eating a cooked food diet for a small portion of last year, and was raw for about year or so before that.


at some point after eating cooked food again last year i started to have lots of problems with my body, mostly my liver. About a year ago I broke out with some bad acne (i'm in my late twenties), and it took a while to figure out how to heal from that. the only thing that has worked so far is a high fruit, raw diet with lots of greens too. the only problem is, any time i eat nuts or fats of any kind i start to break out again, which sucks because i want to be able to eat seeds and nuts, and maybe some cooked foods like quinoa or beans every once in a while (this also has an almost immediate effect on my acne). this has led me to believe i have issues with my liver. in my earlier to mid twenties i did drink heavely, probably more than one should drink in a life time. i've been sober for three years now but i think that the damage had already been done and finally caught up with me.

so i was wondering what kind of experience you guys have with liver flushes? i did try one that was a bit extreme and ended up vomiting before i was able to complete it. i wanted to try again though, but also have read very conflicting information regarding liver flushes. any help or advice will be much appreciated!


thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2014 04:50AM by tezcal.

Curcumin, milk thistle, beetroot juice, grapefruit, glutathione, dandelion, chlorella, MSM, and broccoli sprouts (rich in I3C) should help. Coffee enema's are also great liver detoxifiers.

I'd avoid most "liver flushes". Most of them are a hoax and not good for health at all.

Jtprindl's list of stuff is pretty good but may be too much until you have cleared out more. Beetjuice can be very powerful, for instance. I'd go with, and have gone with, the grapefruit juice and lemon juice first. Curcumin, milk thistle, dandelion, and chlorella are essential for right now though, IMO.

The main thing to start with immediately is the enemas which will make a world of difference quickly and makes the whole detoxing process much much easier and quicker. For instance I had gall bladder problems for 20 years,(I refused to let the doctors remove it), yet now I have no problem with that at all even though I am on a very high fat, 65%, raw diet.

I would recommend this linked kit, and to stay away from plastic containing ones. Don't use grocery store coffee.

[www.amazon.com]

Here is part of my file on Pineapple Juice from Dr. Flora...

Pineapple Juice
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…see “Liver - Gall Bladder Flush” file…
…see “Liver - Gallbladder Flush” file…
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…File Preview…
• Stick holes in the stem end of the pineapple and place it in the sun, after you rinse it well, in a saucer with a little fresh water in it. Let it sit for a couple of days and when it's all yellow and smells delicious, make juice out of it and chugalug it first thing in the am on an empty stomach.
• The pineapples soak up the water in the sun and ripen nicely and become fragrant, alkaline and sweet. If the juice is chugged, it slips down to the liver and gall bladder and dissolves fat and cholesterol from earlier times and everything is happy down there as you sweat out the old oils from your pores. The bromelain is in the stem, so don't throw away the center part; it's the most important part of the fruit.
• If you binge on: 4. fatty, greasy, cheesy, oily, chugalug on an empty stomach, fresh pineapple juice from a pineapple you ripened yourself in the sun in a bowl of water with holes in the bottom for inspiration
• home ripened freshly juiced pineapple juice chugalugged first thing in the am on an empty stomach to clean out the old oils from my system.
• Make sure you home ripen the pineapples: put them in a saucer in the sun for a couple of days after you wash them thoroughly and then punch holes in the stem end so that the leaves can drink in the sun and water you pour over them on and off and they become yellow and smell delicious! and they won't burn your lips and other parts.
• Freshly made Pineapple juice chugalugged first thing in the am (ayunas) and Fenugreek greens will assist.
• Pineapple juiced should be drunk chugalug and not blended with other things because when it gets caught in your system it gets old and acid within half an hour.
• On an empty stomach, when you chugalug it, it leaves your stomach within 20 minutes and is in your gall bladder, making small work of any old nuts or seeds or stuff you have eaten cooked or rancid. Pineapple juice is a gift from the gods for us when we have strayed, but later on, when you are more careful about what you eat, you won't need it because there will not be anything in your body (too much cholesterol, rancid fats or oils, etc.) that will need dissolving.
• Pineapple needs to be juiced and drunk quickly so that it gets to your liver and gall bladder and has time to work on the cholesterol there for about 20-30 minutes before anything else comes down.
• The middle of the pineapple and stem has the enzyme bromelaine, which dissolves cholesterol. When it is ripened in the sun, in a little saucer of water so that holes in the stem end can suck the soaking water from dulse up into the body of the fruit and ripen so it's golden yellow and smells delicious, it is such a gift to your body, juiced and chugalugged.
• The minute a person stops putting something bad inside, the body starts to clean house and all of the poisons (fat, animal cholesterol, chemicals and hormones) rises to the top of the body like a salad dressing bottle at rest as the fat rises to the top, and circulation is temporarily blocked and you get dizzy on and off, especially during the wane of the full moon. …Home ripened pineapple juice will dissolve the fat quickly, as will purslaine, and blended and juiced greens will rebuild your blood into something you will benefit by, instead of the blood that is full of animal fat and cholesterol.
• Chocolate is one of those darn malonic acid containing foods, which will destroy your immune sytem and prevent two very important digestive enzymes from being utilized in your body. Do some figs and prunes today with your greens and tomorrow morning bolt some raw pineapple juice down, and don't eat anything for about an hour to let the bromelaine do it's work on the fat which contains the malonate.
• the pineapple's enzyme, which dissolves fat, cholesterol, grease, etc.
• Pick out a pineapple that is at least half little golden yellow. Never buy one that is blue-green. …Wash it twice in a one minute hot bath, patting it dry in between. With the tines of a plastic fork, poke holes in the stem end (the stem is where the bromelaine concentrates) and place it in direct sun until it is yellow all over (many times it takes a couple of days). If you put the dulse soaking water in the soaking water, the liquid minerals (but not the sea shells and sand!) that are rinsed out of the dulse will be sucked up into the pineapple stem, almost as if it were still on the stem grounded, and the pineapple will ripen.
• I wanted to thank you AGAIN for your invaluable advice, most notably all of your comments about pineapple juice. I can honestly say that after drinking it several times a week for a few months, all of my gallbladder problems are gone. …And I've done a whole slew of liver flushes too, and they didn't help as much as just drinking fresh, ripe pineapple juice did.
•
…End of File Preview…
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: unripe pineapple can be ripened
drflora3rd (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-04-02 04:05

Stick holes in the stem end of the pineapple and place it in the sun, after you rinse it well, in a saucer with a little fresh water in it. Let it sit for a couple of days and when it's all yellow and smells delicious, make juice out of it and chugalug it first thing in the am on an empty stomach. Pineapple wasn't meant to be chewed on, just juiced nowadays, because of the insecticide and pesticide in the flowers and the fact that they are picked green and sprayed a lot of times with a blud-green dye that is directly connected with liver cancer. I have learned from Dr. Clark to soak them in hot water for a minute and pat dry and then soak them again in fresh hot water and pat dry again and to not let them stay in the soaking water because the spray goes back on if the water gets cooler. Anyway, I do that to my avocadoes and apples. The pineapples soak up the water in the sun and ripen nicely and become fragrant, alkaline and sweet. If the juice is chugged, it slips down to the liver and gall bladder and dissolves fat and cholesterol from earlier times and everything is happy down there as you sweat out the old oils from your pores. The bromelain is in the stem, so don't throw away the center part; it's the most important part of the fruit. I've learned the hard way never to eat pineapple at a party or from a platter from a store. It would eat, and has eaten, my insides out all the way down and out! Like jalapeno peppers! and unripe citrus that was 'color enhanced'!
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: I am going insane!!!
Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-11-02 06:04

...
5 things to remember to keep yourself level on a physical level: If you binge on:
1. salty things, eat watermelon the next eating experience.
2. protein foods, eat papaya (papain dissolves it)
3. starch, eat soaked overnight in water prunes
4. fatty, greasy, cheesy, oily, chugalug on an empty stomach, fresh pineapple juice from a pineapple you ripened yourself in the sun in a bowl of water with holes in the bottom for inspiration
...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: rheumatoid arthritis
Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-11-02 03:39
...
...It took me getting off grains and citrus totally, and only using 2 ounces of concentrated protein a day (I use almond cream), and lots of dark green baby organic greens, and home ripened freshly juiced pineapple juice chugalugged first thing in the am on an empty stomach to clean out the old oils from my system.
...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: not so controversial foods questonaire
Dr. Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-12-02 20:28

1. C
2. I don't even know what that is!
3. The rest are wonderful A's. Make sure you home ripen the pineapples: put them in a saucer in the sun for a couple of days after you wash them thoroughly and then punch holes in the stem end so that the leaves can drink in the sun and water you pour over them on and off and they become yellow and smell delicious! and they won't burn your lips and other parts. The nut butters should be made by you with organic nuts (and seeds) soaked the proper times (see sprouting books for details) and dehydrated before grinding in order to get the amino acids you desire, otherwise they are just fattening and you don't get the protein at all and the oils are not assimilable either. The starch is broken down into simple sugar when you soak them timely. Also, you need to make sure that every little moldy seed or nut is discarded. One bad 'apple' seed will ruin the whole bunch, as the saying goes.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Sinus Infection
Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-19-02 18:46

...

Freshly made Pineapple juice chugalugged first thing in the am (ayunas) and Fenugreek greens will assist.
...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Dr.Flora and All
Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-19-02 21:54

Pineapple juiced should be drunk chugalug and not blended with other things because when it gets caught in your system it gets old and acid within half an hour. Rub some pineapple juice on your skin and let it sit there for 15 mnutes and you'll see what I'm talking about. I pre-ripen mine by punching holes in the stem end of the pineapples, rinsing it off well and leaving it in a saucer of water outside until it's yellow all over and smells wonderful. Then, I juice it and drink it all at once in the sun and wait an hour before I eat anything else. I wouldn't normally eat anything that I wouldn't rub on my skin. But, it will turn acid and burn that's why you don't mix it with anything else. Maybe someone who eats all cooked food could and never feel anything, but they are so clogged up, they could eat jalapenos and not feel it! Your body was trying to protect you from the combination that would keep the old acid pineapple juice in your system where it could burn you. On an empty stomach, when you chugalug it, it leaves your stomach within 20 minutes and is in your gall bladder, making small work of any old nuts or seeds or stuff you have eaten cooked or rancid. Pineapple juice is a gift from the gods for us when we have strayed, but later on, when you are more careful about what you eat, you won't need it because there will not be anything in your body (too much cholesterol, rancid fats or oils, etc.) that will need dissolving. I don't drink it every day, or even every month, only when I've been eating at someone elses and I am too timid to tell them I'm a living food person. ...
...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: fruits, what's good and bad?
flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 03-02-02 03:47

Banana isn't good with pineapple. Pineapple needs to be juiced and drunk quickly so that it gets to your liver and gall bladder and has time to work on the cholesterol there for about 20-30 minutes before anything else comes down. Some people try to chew pineapple pulp get sores on their mouths inside and out and when it comes out it's not pleasant either. I learned that in South America
The middle of the pineapple and stem has the enzyme bromelaine, which dissolves cholesterol. When it is ripened in the sun, in a little saucer of water so that holes in the stem end can suck the soaking water from dulse up into the body of the fruit and ripen so it's golden yellow and smells delicious, it is such a gift to your body, juiced and chugalugged.
...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Protein deficiency?
Dr. Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 04-11-02 10:41

The minute a person stops putting something bad inside, the body starts to clean house and all of the poisons (fat, animal cholesterol, chemicals and hormones) rises to the top of the body like a salad dressing bottle at rest as the fat rises to the top, and circulation is temporarily blocked and you get dizzy on and off, especially during the wane of the full moon. This is a perfect time to help your body by realizing that the dizziness is also oxygen from the better live food you are eating and you are not accustomed to O2 running around in your brain!. Home ripened pineapple juice will dissolve the fat quickly, as will purslaine, and blended and juiced greens will rebuild your blood into something you will benefit by, instead of the blood that is full of animal fat and cholesterol. 1/4th of an avocado and 2 day soaked organic almonds, soaked flax seeds all help, and figs to get you alkaline. Of course, watermelon is the greatest diuretic there is.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Your intuition is right on! Re; Chocolate
Dr. Flora (---.dad.adelphia.net)
Date: 04-12-02 13:00

Chocolate is one of those darn malonic acid containing foods, which will destroy your immune sytem and prevent two very important digestive enzymes from being utilized in your body. Do some figs and prunes today with your greens and tomorrow morning bolt some raw pineapple juice down, and don't eat anything for about an hour to let the bromelaine do it's work on the fat which contains the malonate. Read up on it in Dr. Clark's book, in particular The Cure for All Diseases", and don't beat yourself up about what happened. Family members who are carniverous or on drugs will drive raw foodies and living food people to be very unbalanced for awhile. Just hang in there with lots of watermelon to get rid of the salt and the msg.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: To: Dr. Flora Re: Pineapples
Dr. Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 04-18-02 11:09

Susan, most of the pineapples are being grown in soil that has been more than depleted of minerals, the soil in many places is actually toxic. In order to maximize profits, the producers are picking them green, coloring them with a blue-green dye that is a known cancer-causing factor, and when we get them, we have to 'love' them to help them give what they were born to give. I hope you get into the bromelaine research which will support what I am going to just touch on. It's fascinating and troubling, but the more people know about it, the more someone will change and the pineapple's enzyme, which dissolves fat, cholesterol, grease, etc. will be there again, in full force. The pineapples used to have so much in them that to extract it, the resulting pill was small; then, as the amount in the pineapple got lessened by the depletion of the soil in which it was grown, the amount put in and size of the pill had to increase! Now, for most, the bromelaine is negligible. Hope to hear soon that this has reversed. The man who did the original work with the pineapple enzyme bromelaine went on to noni, because it was more available and then even that has problems now because of people gathering fruit on the ground that is moldy. So, on to the way to help the problem:
Pick out a pineapple that is at least half little golden yellow. Never buy one that is blue-green. If that's all that is available, talk to the produce man. Tell him/her to refuse shipment. The consumer's voice will win out. Wash it twice in a one minute hot bath, patting it dry in between. With the tines of a plastic fork, poke holes in the stem end (the stem is where the bromelaine concentrates) and place it in direct sun until it is yellow all over (many times it takes a couple of days). If you put the dulse soaking water in the soaking water, the liquid minerals (but not the sea shells and sand!) that are rinsed out of the dulse will be sucked up into the pineapple stem, almost as if it were still on the stem grounded, and the pineapple will ripen. If it is too full of insecticide and pesticide, it will rot. If it gets almost transluscent (can almost see through a little area - looks like it's saturated with juice), many times you will taste the juice from that and it's as sweet as honey! Many people would throw it away at that point, but if you smell it, it will give it's fragrance (and gratitude) to you to show you that it's ready for your divine consumption.
What a blessing a pineapple is. All over the world people are using extracts to make scars miraculously disappear. People send me tapes of these things and I listen and pass them on to family members. Papaya, smashed and put on hamburger like knees, elbows or palms (from bicycle, skate board to motorcycle accidents), wrapped in sterile cloths (that the skin can breathe through, not plastic), will do amazing things to regenerate the skin in about 3 days or so.
I have taken the pineapple pulp, and sat at peoples' feet, after letting them chugalug the juice on an empty stomach first thing in the morning (ayunas, in Spanish), and rubbed the pulp for about 20 minutes over the toes, top of arch, heels, pushing it up the inside of the leg past the inside of the knee and had people's feet lose the severe pitting edema that causes doctors to amputate toes and feet. If every housewife/nurturer would just learn about our miraculous pineapple, many diabetics would not be hobbling around without flanges (toes) in the future. Just eating a couple of Mexican Pizzas at a local fast food place is enough to shut the circulation down in toes, and swell feet in some sensitive people. This type of fat that they are frying chicken and other things in now is no more than dangerous liquid plastic, that causes terrible damage to one's ability to feel feeling in toes and fingers. It is not something that the pineapple can help. Just animal fat is easily dissolved by bromelaine, but plastic artificial fat, like all of the dangerous margerines and even virgin olive oil, will not dissolve immediately like butter and homemade yogurt. A number of my students are not raw living food vegans, so I have included the last sentence for them.
Fresh, organic or whatever you can get apples, blueberries (There is some brand out now that is really bad. Be cautious.) , papaya, organic mangos that are not from Mexico, fresh aloe, organic bananas (the little pink ones) and watermelon are your best friends now along with the soaked nuts and seeds, rinsed dulse and other seaweeds (not counting nori and kombo) and wild greens (not counting spinach) will be so wonderful for you to feel the energy that is moving now that springtime is here. I am aware that every little seed and nut that I rehydrate I am responsible for. They are my 'children' and Dr. Ann felt the same way. When we grow something, we need to bring it to term with the most loving ingredients/situation possible, and that's the reason for helping the pineapple reach it's maximum ripeness so it won't burn our lips, gums and butts, going in and coming out and all the way down, because of being unripe and full of toxins. Once a person cleans out totally, and doesn't use oils and cooked foods anymore, people don't really need pineapple daily or even weekly, because after about 20 minutes, it gets really acid. For the first five minutes after you make the juice, I've even put it on my closed eyelids, and it dissolves, through the eyelids, the excess fat (if I've eaten more than 2-4 ounces of almond cream, for instance) that is in my system, and my eyesight improves after that but then I have to be EXTREMELY careful to rinse the pulp off 3 or 4 times and then put some smooshed up avocado on the closed eyelids for the vitamin E for just a minute to help moisturize them if any of the juice from the pulp has been too strong. I've burned my eyelids by leaving it on for 10 minutes one time when I got a call and wasn't mindful of the timing and that's how I used the avocado (and would use fresh aloe in the same way now also). I hope I've answered your question thoroughly. If you have any other questions, drflora3rd@hotmail.com until the 21st, when I will be gone 3 weeks.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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...see “Liver - Gallbladder Flush” file...
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Dr Flora
Author: bliss (---.isp.broadviewnet.net)
Date: 02-12-05 08:25

I wanted to thank you AGAIN for your invaluable advice, most notably all of your comments about pineapple juice. I can honestly say that after drinking it several times a week for a few months, all of my gallbladder problems are gone. I couldn't eat avocados or nuts before, because I would get uncomfortable aches and twinges, and once had a full-blown attack. I was getting to the point where I couldn't even have Energy Soup or a nice molested kale salad - the avos would trigger some kind of attack. And I've done a whole slew of liver flushes too, and they didn't help as much as just drinking fresh, ripe pineapple juice did. I love it so much - what a treat - now that's some delicious medicine! I'm going to continue to drink it a few times a week forever and ever.

I can't thank you enough for sharing your generous wisdom.

Bless,
Bliss
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Pineapple Knowledge
Author: drflora (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date: 02-15-05 17:48

Ah, the miracle of bromelaine. Nowadays, there's hardly any left in pineapples because of the poor soil they are being grown in, that's why we must bring them back to life. The sores on your mouth come from drinking the juice or eating a pineapple that is not ripe or eating part that has the flower on it (the little bumps). Pineapples are many times sprayed with a green spray that one has to wash off (like Dr. Clark suggests washing your bananas and avocados 3 times, in hot water, patting dry each time to get the dye off.)

The mold comes and you just have to scrub/wash it off. This interest should help someone out there find a pineapple supplier so that our dear board members won't have to pay $10 for one! When I was in Puerto Rico with Dr. Ann, we could buy one in the market for $.50 but, yes, I know, that was then and this is now. I just buy mine at Food Lion (gasp) or Giant when I can't get organic (which is practically never unless I'm in FL) and put dulse soaking water (2" in my saucer to reenergize/clear out/ripen/soak the pineapples in the sun in..(dangling part).

To learn more about the scoop on pineapples, there is a wonderful tape by the Dr. who first did research on noni. He did the pineapple first, until they depleted the soils so much in Hawaii, they switched to noni, but many of them are being picked off the ground and are very mouldy. You can taste it in the noni juice. Be careful and just eat raw/living, not bottled.

peace and love, Dr. Flora 3rd
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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Here is part of my file on Liver - Gallbladder Flush mostly from Tony...

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Don't be such a prick Nemo...
Author: Tony
Date: 11-17-03 23:54

...ha, ha, ha I knew that line would get your attention. But seriously, I would be interested in hearing how your experience with the rainbow green goes. Mine was a total nightmare! I felt sluggish and backed up almost the entire time eating all that fat and sorely missed fruit (I disagree with Dougie on most things but I feel he's right in the sense that its either fruit or fat for calories). Part of it, I believe, was that my liver/gallbladder was severely packed with stones and unable to dump enough bile to properly digest all the fat I was eating. I have since remedied that problem by doing over twenty flushes this year. I probably only have only 4-5 more before I reach the lofty position of STONE-FREE STATUS and enter the Jubb Hall of Fame. Now I could more feasibly see myself going on the rainbow green since my bile flow and fat digestion has gotten so good. In fact, lately I have been doing very little fruit and mostly green superfood smoothies with coconut water, coconut meat, lots of coconut oil, green supefood, tocos, lethicin, msm, probiotics,etc. They taste really good to me and its a great way to consume coconut oil and get the benefits without doing too much sugar. The best way to do the fruit free diet IMO would be to use coconut oil almost exclusively (or at least 50%) because its the most energizing of the fats, requires no bile flow/liver energy, is most therapeutic against fungal/viral conditions, etc. This would shorten the time required to stay on level 1 and then one could easily go to berries and coconut water on 1.5 and love it. DW did an event down here about a month ago and I got to spend a lot of time asking him questions while I was preparing food and setting up. It turns out that he (DW) has found the same thing to be true with coconut oil as I have--the more you replace your other fats with it the better you to tend to feel. The only problem is that it doesn't go well in dressings or on salads so you need a LITTLE sugar with it. Oh well, I have played around with virtually every supp/superfood there is but IMO he (DW) has done a good job of separating the best from the worthless--the trick is to find a way to get sustainable prices for yourself--wink,wink--you can if you're resourceful. Anyway, let me know what you think--don't come to this board as often anymore but I will for something interesting. Also--I have some great top secret sources for things at ridiculous prices--feel free to email me privately if you are interested. Peace.
Tony
--I like 40's of green juice whilst chillin' with my homies too but that **** don't compare to a 40 of olive oil and lemon juice--the closest you can get on a raw diet to the good old days of hangovers...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
I disagree Bryan...
Author: Tony
Date: 11-24-03 13:09

...despite some of his craziness, I believe Pete had some valid points. My impression is that those that typically gravitate toward the high fruit often (I can't say always) have very weak liver/gallbladders and weak HCL. So they begin to notice that fruit is the only thing they can digest effectively. And then they notice that each time they eat fats they feel sluggish, lethargic, etc. So they begin to reduce their fats and up their fruit also over time. And they also notice they don't digest the tougher, more mineral rich greens very well and begin to cut those out also. And in eliminating the salt from their diet they also reduce their ability to produce HCL and digest anything that's not super soft and watery. Is this natural? I don't believe so. My experience with flushing has opened up my eyes on this matter. At first I started to have they same reaction as the high-fruit people--each time I ate a concentrated fat I would feel a knot around my liver/gallbladder and want to take a nap. The solution for me was to replace most of my fats with coconut oil until I was able to clear most of the debris out of my liver/gallbladder. Now my digestion is incredibly powerful and when I eat a concentrated fat it virtually digest like a carb. Their is a clear stream of bile that I can feel where before it was blocked up/obstructed. Of course, I still believe that fats can be overdone and that these organs need a break but still I think people would benefit more from including coconut oil in their diet than getting off fats all together. Doug may be fit/have lots of energy but looks to be fatty acid deficient and has certainly aged more rapidly than those like Lou Corona who have been doing raw around the same amount of time. And in a certain sense fats can assist in detox--most people come into raw off of a lifetime of rancid fats and these compose their cells. I believe people crave fats for a reason--and not just out of weakness like you suggest--they need these good fats to rebuild their cells and help the body push out all of the fat-soluble toxins (ie. petrochemicals). Perhaps after a certain amount of time there will be some like Zsuzsa who fulfill their fat needs in the beginning and then gradually reduce them in the long run. But to just rush into this low-fat thing almost seems either like weak digestion or trying to adhere to system/ideology. Of course, you might think/say the exact same thing about me...Oh well.
Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: liver/gallbladder flush (joanie)
Author: joanie no balonie
Date: 12-18-03 06:47

I think some of what comes out is bile too, and you can tell how old it is by how nasty it smells

I've had green stones, black stones, white stones, and tan stones come out, all while drinking the same olive oil and grapefruit juice mixture. Then a few times I used raw apple cider in place of the grapefruit juice, and got the same colors of stones. Once I used beet juice for staining, to see if the stones coming out would be purple, and they were not - they were the same colors - green, white, tan, black. Supposedly the older the stones are, the darker they are. I've also eliminated stones that were really freaky in make-up - very much like gritty sand, and the exact color of sand, and then when cut open they are bright green in the center, like emeralds. These stones are supposedly totally cholesterol, and the sandy whitish color and texture indicates that this stone was starting to calcify.

It's interesting that you and others advocate a gentler approach, kms, because after my 9th liver flush last week I just felt that my body was telling me that I was beyond that; that I didn't need to do it anymore. Up until that time I was very enthusiastic about the liver flushes, and had had nothing but good experiences, and was looking forward to the next one each time I would do one. But after that 9th one, I felt differently about continuing to do them. I want to use food for healing from now on.

Joanie
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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Gallstones and going by Results
Author: Tony (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: 04-12-04 01:52

Hey all,

My experience with liver flushing has led me to believe that gallstones play a major role in candida and general poor health/digestion. Gallstones are essentially little balls of mold stuck in your liver/gallbladder that really allow a continous flow of pathogenic yeast to flow into your body. They also limit your body's ability to detoxify and remove harmful bacteria from your blood stream. Some of the people I have met that have completed the regimen of liver flushing (that means nothing comes out but a pure stream of bile) are so robust and can digest virtually anything and thrive. It seems like those who get really down on fats might have weighed down GB's and find that avoiding fats gets them around this problem. My opinion is that some people have inherently or genetically strong GB's and I am blown away by the 'rules' they can break and still have great energy, appearance and digestion. Eventually they have to pay the price for their habits but the fact that some people can eat a large meal at Outback Steakhouse (which I don't recommend) and have more energy than a rawfoodist who eats one avocado make me wonder why that is.

I also think that being sensitive to your body is important and great but I feel that within reasonably healthy parameters we should have some versatility and flexibility. If we are in really robust health than eating some avocado or oil in a salad should not make us sleepy or fatigued--because our digestion and internal energy is so powerful that it can adapt and handle a wider variety of things. I think that need to always do things 'perfectly' to feel good is a sign of weakness and definitely handicaps one if he or she were ever forced to go into unknown/adverse circumstance where his or her program could not be followed (ie. a frutarian type eater having to live in a cold, northern type climate). A perfect example of this is monks and Taoist sages who can have amazing vitality and energy while living off of what we would consider a very weak diet of cooked veggies, miso soup and rice. But their internal energy is strong to the extent that they can do this an still be robust. IMO we should aim to be more like this--eat the best we can but get our health and vitality from deeper within so that we are not bound to perfect adherence to any particular program.

Another thing I think plays a powerful role in candida is biofield interference and/or emotional blockage. I used to have candida and would get that yeasty feeling most particularly in areas of my body where I was energetically blocked or most emotionally charged. I realize that this is not scientific proof, but it seems to have true in my case and in those I've met. Why is it that some people can eat perfectly and struggle with candida for long periods of time while others can do whatever and feel great? This to me is another reason for working to clear your liver/gallbladder of all debris. There is a powerful energetic current that runs through there and clearing it really helps to establish proper energetic flow and balance to the body. I met one girl who accidentally awakened the kundalini and was so mentally and physiologically unstable until she flushed out all of her gallstones. She couldn’t sleep or even think straight at all for many weeks until she met a natural doctor that worked with her on using clay/castor oil to exogenously detox and flushing to ensure that the energy flowed smoothly from the base of her spine to her brain. After that she was perfectly fine and by all signs in amazing health and mental clarity.
Lastly, I really think that a person should go by results when looking at diets long-term. There is a guy who spoke at the Raw Food Festival in Portland who is fifty two and has been 100% raw for 31 years. Thus he is very similar in his stats to Dr. D. He personally has done lots of fasting but generally eats what Nh'rs would consider a high fat diet and takes supplemental enzymes. I should also note that he eats 'hot' foods daily like ginger and potent cayenne and cultures and germinates all of his nuts and seeds. He has lectured beside Dr. Doug on multiple occasions and people that have seen them both agree that he looks easily 10-15 years younger than Doug. He also has greater internal strength despite not working out and can lift himself off the floor by his hands and raise his legs into the air which Doug cannot do. It's funny that despite Doug bashing him taking enzymes and overall approach people were coming up to him to find out where they could get them because he defintely seemed healthier. Of course, people might argue two things according to this example a) the fact that Lou 'needs' to take enzymes means that his diet/program is inherently unnatural or inferior and b) he might be genetically stronger than Dr. D and thus have an unfair advantage. The first objection seems silly because it is based purely on ideolgy and not results. Perhaps because Dr. Doug appears to be less healthy he maybe 'needs' to take enzymes or eat more protein and fat. The fact that he supposedly has perfect blood on darkfield does not mean that he’s properly regenerating on his program and might explain his looking 'older' than Lou. Having lots of energy to work out and clean blood doesn't necessarily mean one is rebuilding and regenerating at an optimal level. Lastly, from what I know about their backgrounds Lou started out with extreme candida, a tumor and IBS--definitely not an advantageous beginning. Doug, on the other hand, was an elite college athlete always in pretty good health from what I've heard. Of course, this is certainly not scientific proof by any means but in seeing this I would feel much more comfortable about my future going on a raw diet rich in juices, salads, cultured foods, supplemental enzymes and periodic fasting than doing simple 80/10/10 diet. Doug is really one of the first to attempt to do this long term and his results so far show that is can be done but not necessarily any better than other programs. To 'assume' that is best based on a ideology is fine, but it is really just that--an assumption and nothing more. I don't mean to impugn or discredit Doug and really think that he is a awesome and healthy person that is helping the world and raw movement incredibly. Just based on what I've seen I am not willing to hold him up as the best long-term example of health or how to eat.

Sorry for making this so long and best of luck to everyone.
Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Gallstones and going by Results
Author: Tony (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: 04-16-04 01:21

Mike, yes the curezone site has lots of great info. There are so many different approaches for the liver beyond just eating the best you can, resting etc. Liver flushing via the Jubb method is fun--your body gets a digestive break with the blended food but still has more energy than on a fast. There's waterfasting which people debate about--some think it's the be all end all and others think it can tax your body if you are defficient or unable to fully rest. People like John Rose have gotten great results from juice fasting and have helped lots of people. The Gerson Method gets really awesome results with cancer patients by juice fasting and coffee enemas. In fact, there's a site with a ton of really cool info on coffee enemas and a special coffee called www.sawilsons.com. Gabriel Cousens and the guy I mentioned above both advocate juice fasting in conjunction with taking enzymes. The enzymes appear to pass the intestinal wall even more effectively on a juice fast for overall healing rejuvenation. One girl at the TOL dropped almost an impossible number of points in her toxicity reading after fasting with the Gabriel and taking lots of systemic enzymes and this clearly benefited her liver. The list goes on and on...
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
=====================================================================
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Insights from a Liver Flush Guru...
Author: Tony (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: 05-06-04 21:04

The following response is from Andreas Moritz, author of the "Amazing Liver Cleanse" to someone from Curezone regarding liver flushing. He has spent many years working with people and studying the liver. His website is www.ener-chi.com and here are his comments:

"In my new edition of the liver cleanse book (it is about three times as large) I also recommend Gold Coin Grass for difficult cases. It is also important to do the colonics, particularly the one after the liver cleanse. I have had quite a few people pass more stones with the colonic than during the actual liver flush. This was due to spastic areas in the colon that blocked the release of the stones. So make sure to always finish off with a colonic within 3 days after the liver cleanse. Almost every person passes more stones this way. There are always a few stones that get trapped in the colon, even in healthy colons. I will answer your questions in the sequence you have asked them:

1. Unless your liver and gallbladder are completely clean, old symptoms can return, not all of them and not as intense, but they can return. During a liver cleanse the liver can get rid of only those stones that are closest to the two main bile ducts that exit the liver. This allows more bile flow for a couple of days (and relieve symptoms, improve energy levels) but as the bile flows better also more stones from the rear parts of the liver begin moving toward these two main ducts. This once again blocks the bile flow and causes the same or similar symptoms. However, the liver as such begins to improve and begin to repair those damaged areas where bile ducts had been blocked before. To permanently get rid of chronic problems, such as backaches, both organs must be cleared of all stones. My partner, for example, passed a 2 1/2 inch calcified gallstone from her gallbladder during her 9th cleanse, folowed by 100 smaller but equally calcified ones. Several hours later, all the pain in her body which she suffered from for 30 years vanished completely and never returned.

2. I recommend to leave at least two weeks between cleanses to allow a maximum number of stones from the rear of the liver to move forward and also give the liver enough time and energy for repairing the damaged sites before having another 'surgery.' It would be a waste to cleanse any earlier than that. Once a month would be ideal.

3. The oil and juice cannot turn into stones, the body cannot do that, not even a laboratory. Analysis of the stones shows that they consist of 90 percent cholesterol crystals. The cholesterol in olive is minimal and not sufficient to form any clumps. Besides it is soluble cholesterol that is unable to coagulate. The reason why the liver can easily accommodate 4000-5000 stones because of the huge biliary network. Instead of having bile occupying the space, bile stones begin to occupy that space. Of course, the bile ducts dilate because the stones are relatively large in comparison with the normal diametre of a smaller bile duct. This causes the typical enlargement of the liver among people with chronic health problems. In fact most people, even children, in the industrialised world have enlarged livers (which is now considered normal). If a person has 20,000 stones, he actually has a fatty, enlarged liver, completely white on the ultrasound picture.
Also, when the liver and gallbladder are cleared of all stones, no more stones are released. If stones were formed from olive oil, this would continue to be the case even after the liver is clean. But this isn't so. After my 12th cleanse I had no more stones. When I did a 13th cleanse 4 years later, I still had no stones, not surprising given my diet and lifestyle. And I had released over 3,500. All stones were packed with bacteria that produced a horrendous smell. Olive oil is bacteria-static and therefore does not support living bacteria. Bacteria only go where there is decaying organic matter. Anyone who says that olive oil turns into stones has no knowledge of basic biochemistry and digestive functions.

4. The liver loses its sluggishness when it is free from congestion. It fully repairs itself and does not require any external help to do that. How to avoid gallstones from being formed again can be taken from this book. How to live a healthy lifestyle and eat balanced diet according to one's body type is dealt with in my book "The Key to Health and Rejuvenation." It is a very large and comprehensive book.

5. Fats make you sluggish for as long there is not sufficient bile available to handle the fat. Once the bile ducts are clear bile flow and bile production return to normal, fat digestion also becomes easy again, provided that all the other factors that influence bile production, such as sleeping before 10 or 10:30 pm, drinking enough water, avoiding stimulants, etc., clearing emotional stress, etc. are taken care of."

Best of luck to everyone on this happy path to health!!
Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Not much changes IMO...
Author: Tony (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: 05-07-04 00:14

<<<how does all this change with no Gall Bladder?>>>

...I have heard that it's still beneficial to do them because stones can be packed into the various ducts of the liver. You may want to do much smaller amounts of oil also in the beginning (ie 2-3 oz vs. 4-5). One important thing I heard Udo Erasmus say personally is that those with the GB's removed need to eat fats in a different manner. The GB was designed to release large amounts of bile in a short time as is needed to digest a fatty meal. On the other hand, without the GB, bile continually trickles down from the liver directly into the duodenum and so if you are going to eat fat you must eat very small amounts and spread out over time. Since he is probably the world's leading authority on fats I would trust him on this one.

One thing I think is very inspiring about this person is that he is fifty-two years old and reportedly exceptionally healthy and he's not even raw!! But he says some really cool things like we don't need concentrated protein sources, particularly once our liver gets clean--you can even synthesize much of the necessary protein out of the combination of air, water, sunshine, etc. Also, that the liver is very closely tied to the gateway from the physical body to the awareness/light-body and removing debris really helps to enhance that connection.

Anyway, best of luck to you...

Tony
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
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Re: Insights from a Liver Flush Guru...
Author: michael UK(80.44.142.---)
Date: 05-07-04 08:09

I've done 12 cleanses and the first 10 produced many stones . The last one almost none at all which would suggest to me at least it's not the oil turning into stones.

mike xxxx
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
=====================================================================

cheers, thanks everyone. have been taking large amounts of chlorella recently, along with morninga. will get milk thistle tonight at work (work at a health food store).


i was wondering, for the curcumin, should i buy a curcumin suppliment or just start blending larger amounts of tumeric powder in my smoothies/salad dressing?



ordered my enema kit today, should arrive shortly.



thanks for that information, john rose. a lot of what was said there resonates with my experiences. looking into dr. jubb's method of liver cleansing now.



think the plan right now might be to start with the enemas and herbs, then after a few weeks maybe starting with beet/grapefruit/pineapple juices.




again, thanks everyone. i'll update with results hopefully sooner than later.

"i was wondering, for the curcumin, should i buy a curcumin suppliment or just start blending larger amounts of tumeric powder in my smoothies/salad dressing?"

I would go with pure (nearly) curcumin. For curcumin, I use [www.longevitywarehouse.com].. which is 98% curcumin. I use it in hemp milk with vanilla bean powder.

That was some great info, John.

"i was wondering, for the curcumin, should i buy a curcumin suppliment or just start blending larger amounts of tumeric powder in my smoothies/salad dressing?"

I take a lot of organic turmeric powder. I use it both in tonics and salad dressings/soups along with a drop or two of black pepper essential oil for better absorption.

It does work as a blood thinner at high amount so monitor that especially if you are taking other things that thin the blood like, in my case, flax seeds. I cut down on my intake if I start getting bruises.

Another thing you will notice is that in time the pigment accumulates under your skin. This will show up best, at first, under florescent store lights on your palms when you flex back your hands. This is another good way to monitor your dosing.

Liver flushes are not a hoax at all, SueZ. I did over a dozen. The first few flushes, there was just these little green balls which it's not for me to say what they were. Maybe there were what they are accused of being, namely, lumps of congealed olive oil.

But after many flushes, I discharged a bunch of somewhat firm, angular things (angular from having been packed together, obviously) whitish in color, that I sliced open with a knife and there was a firm yellowish-green waxy substance inside, like a warm crayon perhaps, so don't anyone tell me those aren't legitimate gallstones. Further, I used clear, colorless refined oil for the last couple of flushese I performed, so also please don't try and convince me that the greenish substance was "olive oil". I believe that these were semi-calcified stones.

I also, earlier in my flushing history, passed a small number of hard-as-rock, completely white things. They are "stones" by any definition. They were very small, maybe 1/4". Looked like bits of limestone.

There are all kinds of things lurking in both the liver ducts and the gallbladder itself, all kinds of different appearance and conformation. "Gallstones" is not a good word, really, beause of the variety of foreign substances that have accumulated in an unhealthy liver/gallbladder system.

However, I do not believe that the standard 1/2-cup-oil liver flush is suitable for everyone. There is a milder 5-day version that might be better for some of you. You use much smaller amts of oil and citrus juice, then follow it up with hot herb tea. Much nice and easier.

I don't know who "Dr. Flora" is in the reposted file but she doesn't have her facts straight. Bromelain in pineapple can help with inflammation but will not break down fats.

Horsea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> But after many flushes, I discharged a bunch of
> somewhat firm, angular things (angular from
> having been packed together, obviously) whitish in
> color, that I sliced open with a knife and there
> was a firm yellowish-green waxy substance inside,
> like a warm crayon perhaps,


When gall is VERY fresh it is green. Had you heated these objects they would have melted. Had you dropped them in in water they would have floated. They were not crystalline material. They were not gall stones.

Olive oil alone will clean the liver. Just leave the rest of the harmful ingredients out.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know who "Dr. Flora" is in the reposted
> file but she doesn't have her facts straight.
> Bromelain in pineapple can help with inflammation
> but will not break down fats.


In other words - leave the chugalugging of pineapple juice out of the mix.

<<<In other words - leave the chugalugging of pineapple juice out of the mix.>>>

Pineapple Juice Versus Liver Flushes

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Dr Flora
Author: bliss (---.isp.broadviewnet.net)
Date: 02-12-05 08:25

I wanted to thank you AGAIN for your invaluable advice, most notably all of your comments about pineapple juice. I can honestly say that after drinking it several times a week for a few months, all of my gallbladder problems are gone. I couldn't eat avocados or nuts before, because I would get uncomfortable aches and twinges, and once had a full-blown attack. I was getting to the point where I couldn't even have Energy Soup or a nice molested kale salad - the avos would trigger some kind of attack. And I've done a whole slew of liver flushes too, and they didn't help as much as just drinking fresh, ripe pineapple juice did. I love it so much - what a treat - now that's some delicious medicine! I'm going to continue to drink it a few times a week forever and ever.

I can't thank you enough for sharing your generous wisdom.

Bless,
Bliss
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

<<<They were not gall stones.>>>

CLINICAL EXPERIENCE Versus OPINION

This is what Dr. Schulze has to say about this subject,

"The following is my CLINICAL EXPERIENCE, not my OPINION, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. I had hundreds and hundreds of patients walk into my clinic over the 20 years I practiced with gallbladder pain from gallstones, about 40% of them brought in their ultrasounds POSITIVELY SHOWING numerous, sometimes hundreds of gallstones and big masses of hardened cholesterol. I put all of these patients on liver and gallbladder flushes and liver and gallbladder cleansing herbs and my 5 Day Cleansing and Detoxification Program if not my Incurables Program. While doing these programs and my herbal formulae, my patients passed hundreds of black, red, purple and green rocks. After their treatment most of the 40% that had previous ultrasounds and many of those that didn't returned to their medical doctors for an ultrasound and I can say that over 90% of them were stone free. The remaining (less than 10%) had to do a little more work and were stone free in another month and a few more Liver Flushes later. THE PICTURES DON'T LIE! The MEDICAL DOCTORS agreed.

As I stated in the 2nd letter from Helen K. in Eugene, Oregon, I had many patients come see me in the middle of gallbladder ATTACKS, with stones stuck in the gallbladder and bile ducts and not a one of them ever had to have surgery after doing the liver and gallbladder flush and herbal treatment, NOT A ONE!

I have hundreds of natural and medical doctors following my programs, including the liver flush and all of their experiences have been the same as mine. One such medical doctor that follows my work, has personally trained with me and has had much success with the liver flush is in your area. Dr. Roopa Chari, M.D.. Her clinic is The Chari Center Of Health Inc. in San Diego, California. The clinic telephone is (619) 275-8073 or go to www.charicenter.com If you have any doubts about this treatment, I would highly suggest that you see Dr. Chari for some expert advise."

In "The Sam Biser Save Your Life Herbal Video Collection User Manual", Sam Biser says, "One leading naturopathic doctor says the liver flush is dangerous. He is crazy and ignorant. Here's why...

Let me quote you what an ignorant natural healer is scaring people with, and then I will give you Richard Schulze's comments. Here is the doctors first statement...

"Many people tell tales of passing huge stones on the liver flush.
However, what they think are gallstones are actually a complex of
minerals, olive oil and lemon juice produced within the gastro-
intestinal tract."

Schulze: "This is true -- but only part of it. When you do a flush, you will see these stones that are clear to translucent-like green. These are soft and spongy. These are congealed olive oil that you consumed.

But what about the black ones? What about the red ones that have blood in them? What about the ones that are an inch and a half long and have a brown, hard crusty outside, and when we broke them open, they were black and purple inside. That's olive oil??? Impossible!

Obviously, from this guy's statement, I can say that he has never done, or done with anybody -- a liver flush."

Biser: Here is the man's next comment. It scared one of my readers...

"The olive oil liver flush is not a good idea for a couple of reasons. First of all, consuming a large quantity of any oil will result in contraction of the gallbladder. It is quite possible that violent contraction of the gallbladder would increase the likelihood of a stone blocking the bile duct. This is a very serious condition that often requires surgery to prevent death."

Now, comment on that one.

Schulze: "Why do we do the flush? It is to cause a contraction of the gallbladder, and purge out the contents.

I always tell people that the gallbladder is like the rectum of the liver. When we do a liver flush, it's like an enema. It flushes out whatever is in the gallbladder.

Notice how he says, "Quite Possible." This is his theory. I have done a liver flush on over 5,000 people and I've never had a person that got a gallstone stuck.

And what were his words again: "Quite possible." This is why I say an N.D. in this country nowadays, you might as well call them an M.D."

Biser: "But what about his comment that this could cause death?"

Schulze: "This man is absolutely insane. That is my opinion of him.

I have had patients who have come to me from the hospital with gallstones (ultrasound) in their gallbladder, and stones entering and stuck in the bile duct, causing them extreme pain where they were doubled over.

I have many cases like this, and the minute they do the liver flush, they notice relief."

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> CLINICAL EXPERIENCE Versus OPINION
>
> This is what Dr. Schulze has to say about this
> subject,
>
> "The following is my CLINICAL EXPERIENCE, not my
> OPINION, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. I had
> hundreds and hundreds of patients walk into my
> clinic over the 20 years I practiced with
> gallbladder pain from gallstones, about 40% of
> them brought in their ultrasounds POSITIVELY
> SHOWING numerous, sometimes hundreds of gallstones
> and big masses of hardened cholesterol. I put all
> of these patients on liver and gallbladder flushes
> and liver and gallbladder cleansing herbs and my 5
> Day Cleansing and Detoxification Program if not my
> Incurables Program. While doing these programs
> and my herbal formulae, my patients passed
> hundreds of black, red, purple and green rocks.
> After their treatment most of the 40% that had
> previous ultrasounds and many of those that didn't
> returned to their medical doctors for an
> ultrasound and I can say that over 90% of them
> were stone free. The remaining (less than 10%)
> had to do a little more work and were stone free
> in another month and a few more Liver Flushes
> later. THE PICTURES DON'T LIE! The MEDICAL
> DOCTORS agreed.
>
> As I stated in the 2nd letter from Helen K. in
> Eugene, Oregon, I had many patients come see me in
> the middle of gallbladder ATTACKS, with stones
> stuck in the gallbladder and bile ducts and not a
> one of them ever had to have surgery after doing
> the liver and gallbladder flush and herbal
> treatment, NOT A ONE!
>
> I have hundreds of natural and medical doctors
> following my programs, including the liver flush
> and all of their experiences have been the same as
> mine. One such medical doctor that follows my
> work, has personally trained with me and has had
> much success with the liver flush is in your area.
> Dr. Roopa Chari, M.D.. Her clinic is The Chari
> Center Of Health Inc. in San Diego, California.
> The clinic telephone is (619) 275-8073 or go to
> www.charicenter.com If you have any doubts about
> this treatment, I would highly suggest that you
> see Dr. Chari for some expert advise."
>
> In "The Sam Biser Save Your Life Herbal Video
> Collection User Manual", Sam Biser says, "One
> leading naturopathic doctor says the liver flush
> is dangerous. He is crazy and ignorant. Here's
> why...
>
> Let me quote you what an ignorant natural healer
> is scaring people with, and then I will give you
> Richard Schulze's comments. Here is the doctors
> first statement...
>
> "Many people tell tales of passing huge stones
> on the liver flush.
> However, what they think are gallstones are
> actually a complex of
> minerals, olive oil and lemon juice produced
> within the gastro-
> intestinal tract."
>
> Schulze: "This is true -- but only part of it.
> When you do a flush, you will see these stones
> that are clear to translucent-like green. These
> are soft and spongy. These are congealed olive
> oil that you consumed.
>
> But what about the black ones? What about the red
> ones that have blood in them? What about the ones
> that are an inch and a half long and have a brown,
> hard crusty outside, and when we broke them open,
> they were black and purple inside. That's olive
> oil??? Impossible!
>
> Obviously, from this guy's statement, I can say
> that he has never done, or done with anybody -- a
> liver flush."
>
> Biser: Here is the man's next comment. It scared
> one of my readers...
>
> "The olive oil liver flush is not a good idea
> for a couple of reasons. First of all, consuming
> a large quantity of any oil will result in
> contraction of the gallbladder. It is quite
> possible that violent contraction of the
> gallbladder would increase the likelihood of a
> stone blocking the bile duct. This is a very
> serious condition that often requires surgery to
> prevent death."
>
> Now, comment on that one.
>
> Schulze: "Why do we do the flush? It is to cause
> a contraction of the gallbladder, and purge out
> the contents.
>
> I always tell people that the gallbladder is like
> the rectum of the liver. When we do a liver
> flush, it's like an enema. It flushes out
> whatever is in the gallbladder.
>
> Notice how he says, "Quite Possible." This is his
> theory. I have done a liver flush on over 5,000
> people and I've never had a person that got a
> gallstone stuck.
>
> And what were his words again: "Quite possible."
> This is why I say an N.D. in this country
> nowadays, you might as well call them an M.D."
>
> Biser: "But what about his comment that this
> could cause death?"
>
> Schulze: "This man is absolutely insane. That is
> my opinion of him.
>
> I have had patients who have come to me from the
> hospital with gallstones (ultrasound) in their
> gallbladder, and stones entering and stuck in the
> bile duct, causing them extreme pain where they
> were doubled over.
>
> I have many cases like this, and the minute they
> do the liver flush, they notice relief."


ALL just obfuscating BS. Olive oil alone is enough to stop a gall bladder attack within minutes. I used that old Edgar Cayce method for 20 years and it worked every time. The rest of the ingredients are unnecessary at best.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> Pineapple Juice Versus Liver Flushes
>
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
> 0&t=58130
> Dr Flora
> Author: bliss (---.isp.broadviewnet.net)
> Date: 02-12-05 08:25
>
> I wanted to thank you AGAIN for your invaluable
> advice, most notably all of your comments about
> pineapple juice. I can honestly say that after
> drinking it several times a week for a few months,
> all of my gallbladder problems are gone. I
> couldn't eat avocados or nuts before, because I
> would get uncomfortable aches and twinges, and
> once had a full-blown attack. I was getting to the
> point where I couldn't even have Energy Soup or a
> nice molested kale salad - the avos would trigger
> some kind of attack. And I've done a whole slew of
> liver flushes too, and they didn't help as much as
> just drinking fresh, ripe pineapple juice did. I
> love it so much - what a treat - now that's some
> delicious medicine! I'm going to continue to drink
> it a few times a week forever and ever.
>
> I can't thank you enough for sharing your generous
> wisdom.
>
> Bless,
> Bliss
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
> 0&t=58130

Once again, pineapple juice can help with inflammation but it's enzymes are worthless for breaking down oils.

Come on, seriously, what kind of crap is this?


"Re: Dr.Flora and All
Flora (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date: 02-19-02 21:54

Pineapple juiced should be drunk chugalug and not blended with other things because when it gets caught in your system it gets old and acid within half an hour."

The majority of gallstones are indeed made of cholesterol. Some become partially calcified. A few gallstones are pigment mostly.

It is unfortunate that the word gallSTONES is used to identify the "things" that accumulate in the gallbladder.

No need for me to "heat" what came out of my rear end after my flush. You are laboring under the delusion that gallstones are indeed 100% stone. Most are not; some are, though. I did produce a couple of hard white objects.

Every flush is different, ie, you discharge different things. Some are big, some are small, some are hard, some are soft, some are green, some are tan-brown, some are whitish gray.

If the results of everyone's flush are phony, I would like to know why after an impressive discharge, nothing appears on future flushes. On the other hand, it's okay, don't trouble yourself.

Even wikipedia knows better:


"Cholesterol stones

Cholesterol stones vary from light yellow to dark green or brown and are oval, between 2 and 3 cm long, each often having a tiny, dark, central spot. To be classified as such, they must be at least 80% cholesterol by weight (or 70%, according to the Japanese- classification system).[6]

Pigment stones

Pigment stones are small and dark and comprise bilirubin and calcium salts that are found in bile. They contain less than 20% of cholesterol (or 30%, according to the Japanese-classification system).[6]

Mixed stones

Mixed gallstones typically contain 20–80% cholesterol (or 30–70%, according to the Japanese- classification system).[6] Other common constituents are calcium carbonate, palmitate phosphate, bilirubin and other bile pigments. Because of their calcium content, they are often radiographically visible."

"No need for me to "heat" what came out of my rear end after my flush. You are laboring under the delusion that gallstones are indeed 100% stone. Most are not; some are, though. I did produce a couple of hard white objects."

What protocol did you follow during the flush?

JT, I have done various versions of flushes.

First few flushes that I did were following Andreas Moritz' instructions. Among other things, I produced tons of strange looking red objects which were n not food residue.

Other times I did Dr. Sutter's socalled "Coke" flush where you use phosphoric acid mixed with apple juice for the 3-day preparation. I never felt sick on this version of the flush (FWIW). It is easier, as you are allowed to eat supper, then wait 3 hours to actually drink the mixture of lemon juice, oil and coca cola (the kind with sugar, not corn syrup). You don't have to take epsom salt if you don't want, which Moritz' flush contains a large amount of. It is quite awful. But I am told it is a lifesaver if you are having a gallbladder attack (this has nothing to do with flushing).

Dr. Sutter has said that after we have experience at flushing we can "mix and match" just so long as the basic elements are there. For me, I stopped using olive oil because I hate it so much, and instead used refined high-oleic oils of various kinds. Also, Sutter is hung up on doing a parasite killing first, but that is tricky. He is basing his instructions and advice on his own experience. His was a very serious case of liver disease.

Here it is in a nutshell: your body will give up what it needs to when it is good & ready. If nothing shows up in the toilet the next day, that is not a "failure". You are priming the pump and the next will be better in terms of what you discharge. Hope this has been helpful.

I'm not laboring under a delusion, Horsea. Granted, the gallbladder can contain lots of precalcified sludge that will solidify with the help of some of these liver flush ingredients AFTER it has left the gallbladder via it's tiny passageway - especially in people who have fistulas.

In people with fistulas, or various intestinal problems, the reds, browns, and blacks would be from old and new blood that accumulated there and got caught up in the mix. The greens I have seen on the net that people take of their flush results are very freshly produced bile - as in under 12 hours old.

The tiny stones you mentioned from an early flush sound like they could really have been stones that had been expelled from the gall bladder in the past and had been caught in an intestinal pocket for who knows how long before they were flushed out. That sort of thing is not that uncommonly observed in older people who haven't even had a liver flush.

The take away of what I am saying is that the oil in these flushes, done as per the Edgar Cayce health readings, is enough to flush the liver adequately. I used that method successfully for 20 years, starting back in the 80's, to stave off gall bladder attacks and keep my poor gall bladder from being removed or, as happened to my grandfather, exploding. I used to bring a quart bottle of grocery store oil with me on the road back then because I didn't know any better and even that worked. The other flush ingredients are totally unnecessary, can be dangerous, and are painful - unnecessarily painful because they can be left out of the flush entirely.

<<<Olive oil alone is enough to stop a gall bladder attack within minutes. I used that old Edgar Cayce method for 20 years and it worked every time.>>>

So you’ve been an Oil Drinker for a LONG TIME!!!

No wonder you like the Conductivity Diet.

<<<I used that method successfully for 20 years, starting back in the 80's, to stave off gall bladder attacks and keep my poor gall bladder from being removed …I'm not laboring under a delusion, Horsea.>>>

You might want a second Opinion other than your own!!!

Think about it…

You had to drink Olive Oil for over 20 years just to keep from having a Gall Bladder Attack, but YOU NEVER GOT RID OF YOUR STONES because you had to keep drinking Olive Oil!!! That means that you probably had Thousands of Stones and it also means that you NEVER learned how had to get Rid of your Stones until recently.

So you SUFFERED for over 20 years, you NEVER got Rid of your Stones and you NEVER got any better!

By the way, you will NEVER get better with your ATTITUDE!!!

As long as you have so much HATRED in your Heart as you illustrate on a daily basis by INSULTING everyone, you will ALWAYS BE SICK!!!

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> So you’ve been an Oil Drinker for a LONG
> TIME!!!
>
> No wonder you like the Conductivity Diet.


Yes before I went raw vegan I followed Edgar Cayce's suggestion and kept with it as it worked for me. Having that in my background I was far less afraid of trying the Conductivity Diet than most people in the raw vegan movement seemed to be - judging by their anger and recoiling in horror at the thought of adding so much fat to their raw vegan diets.

I had been busy with a career while apparently they were being brainwashed by fake, lying raw vegan gurus into thinking fat was the devil, so to speak. I am very thankful that I missed all the early raw vegan "teachings" quite frankly.

>
> Think about it…
>
> You had to drink Olive Oil for over 20 years just
> to keep from having a Gall Bladder Attack, but YOU
> NEVER GOT RID OF YOUR STONES because you had to
> keep drinking Olive Oil!!! That means that you
> probably had Thousands of Stones and it also means
> that you NEVER learned how had to get Rid of your
> Stones until recently.
>
> So you SUFFERED for over 20 years, you NEVER got
> Rid of your Stones and you NEVER got any better!


I must remind you that you have no idea what you are talking about. My problems were not due to formed stones but to my gall bladder being diseased and not functioning properly even though I was on a grain free vegetarian diet that included a lot of juicing.


It is also idiotic for you to assume that someone who has lab work done all the time as I do would neglect to have my gallbladder kept track of. I had batteries of tests done all along and was always able, with the Edgar Cayce method, to keep the sludge from forming to stones. My ultrasounds always were clean of formed stones.

I am proud of my ability to have kept my gallbladder over all that time while I was constantly being told by everyone it should come out and having my grandfather's almost dying when his burst hanging over my head.



> By the way, you will NEVER get better with your
> ATTITUDE!!!

Your milquetoast deceptive attitude of going along to get along with everything served up in the raw vegan food world, without questioning the old failing fruitarian raw vegan ways, is not in the interest of truth or of helping people. It is all self serving pabulum you keep spamming with sneakily designed mainly to sell the long outdated and tired concepts you continue to drag up from the past and believe will convince more people to be vegan. You are both wrong and silly.

It's too bad for you that your yet to be published only book is already severely outdated but that's what happens to many wannabes of the paranoid, procrastinating, and indecisive stripe. I am pointing out that your sun has set less for you, who must at some level understand that already, than for young people who think they can dawdle in the status quo for decades and expect not to be an obsolete has been before accomplishing anything of substance. It happens all the time.

> As long as you have so much HATRED in your Heart
> as you illustrate on a daily basis by INSULTING
> everyone, you will ALWAYS BE SICK!!!

I have no hatred in my heart and I don't think not silently suffering ignoble evils like you try to convince people of as real is a bad thing at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2014 03:30PM by SueZ.

suez,

YOU are NOT a nice person and everyone knows that YOU are NOT a nice person, including YOU, unless, of course, YOU are a Psychopath, which would explain a lot.

So tell us suez, do YOU think that YOU are a nice person?

If your answer is Yes, than YOU are clearly a Psychopath by simple definition.

[www.youtube.com]
Defense Against the Psychopath (Full length Version)
37:37 Minute Video

…

Psychopaths have No Empathy and, as a result, they are neither truly Human nor truly alive. When they see Normals admiring a piece of art or playing with their children or caring for a pet or any number of Human Emotional Interactions, they cannot understand what all of the fuss is all about. Psychopaths realize at an early age that they are different and that they should Act as everyone else does in order to be accepted into Society. They learn to mimic what they see others do, but they can never understand why they should Act this way. Although they are consummate Actors, careful observation will reveal telltale cracks in their façade. They know enough to fake concern when someone is Sick or to pretend Happiness when some good fortune befalls a friend, but in Situations where the Psychopath has no pre-rehearsed Act, their adlib often reveals a stunning Lack of Empathy.

…
[www.youtube.com]

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
(Not on his own steam and from his own thoughts, of course, but quoted from someone else who's words he has chosen to twist to his own nefarious goal...)

"their adlib often reveals a stunning Lack of Empathy."


Actually, I really do feel sorry for you but I am more empathetic with those who may listen to your garbage and get hurt and ruin their lives, as you have yours, by following in your plodding followers footsteps.

"... Psychopaths realize at an early age that they are different and that they should Act as everyone else does in order to be accepted into Society. They learn to mimic what they see others do, but they can never understand why they should Act this way."

I know someone who I think is a psychopath. The above paragraph sums it all up. Tks for this. This is helpful.

PS. Back to the topic of flushes. I read about people doing dozens and dozens of flushes over the years. This is not good. They may be somehow emotionally addicted to them. Surely after maybe 20 flushes over a year or so you should be as "clean" as you are going to get.

A more comprehensive plan is needed, maybe including diagnosis by an "alternative" doctor, a licensed, experienced one; and use of herbs.

I'm not convinced that diet alone will solve ongoing liver/gallbladder challenges. Read up on liver problems on itmonline article by Subhuti Dharmananda. You will all see that it ain't so simple. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of oversimplifying it, but I am just saying that there is no need to do these procedures over and over, month after month.

It is said by traditional Chinese medical practitioners that emotions reside in the liver, especially anger, but indirectly, all the emotions. This needs to be investigated, also.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2014 04:24PM by Horsea.

Horsea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I'm not convinced that diet alone will solve
> ongoing liver/gallbladder challenges.



I thank God everyday that the diet I am now on has solved my personal gall bladder challenges and that I no longer get bogged down when I eat so much as a few avocados - although I am not on any kind of crusade to convert people to it. And I'm quite sure that all the herbs in the tonics play a major role in it's success for me. I'm just sharing my personal experiences and pointing out some BS as BS along the way.

Should not the liver detox on its own without resorting to drastic methods if one switch to a raw vegan diet.

It may take years but it should happen, the liver should heal itself.

It got intoxicated slowly and it should detox at the same rate, naturally.

I think we have to make a distinction between liver detox and liver decongestion. The latter has to come before the former, ideally.