[www.marksdailyapple.com]

this is a good article
says that nuts contain far more phytic acid than grains and beans
it gives a list(chart)

Here are my questions:

1) Weston A. Price ( in the article) says they "soak sprout dehydrate and ferment" nuts before even considering eating them

Does anyone else do this? My question is, how do you ferment nuts after you dehydrate them? Don't you have to have it in a wet "paste" to ferment?

Also, are they dehydrated so that they don't become moldy but in dehydrating, aren't you exposing it to a "warm" moist environment hence making it a lot easier to get moldy?

2) I read in another article that phytic acid only leeches minerals from the food itself. For example, if you eat brazil nuts, the phytic acid in the brazil nuts leaches the minerals from the brazil nut HOWEVER in THIS article (and most other places), they simply state that you will have mineral deficiency because phytic acid robs the body of minerals.. period. this article specifically explicitly states to eat nuts ALONE so that it won't rob other food particles of minerals. I am confused. Which is it?

Anyhow, just another illustration of how plants love to defend themselves.

C'est La V

the latest research says that phytic acid has positive benefits

panchito, really , can't you leave that "this food has benefits" stuff to jtprindl?

you can find a "benefit" to any individual item in a food, based on some study. from a wholistic perspective, that does not mean that the food should be eaten.


The truth from what i can see is that it is overwhelmingly a negative thing, which matches our taste mechanism.

There was a person that I read a story about who "failed" on a vegan diet, because he got anemic. he ate a lot of grains. eating a lot of grains is associated with anemia.

do you wish anemia on people?

this person went paleo, grainless and is much healthier now. should we attribute this to eating meat, or dropping grains?

here's some numbers of the damage caused by phytic acid and nutrient loss.

[www.phyticacid.org]

hi panchito

yeah, there are two sides to the coin apparently

both good and bad

i am tending to try to find the middle way

acknowledging the "bad" but also taking steps to ameliorate it

the soaking and sprouting is one step
some take it as far as fermenting

just wanting to know the particulars in the solutions

not trying to deny the positive
or ignore the negative


thanks though
appreciated



fresh

i tend to see ALL foods as having pros and cons ( no exceptions )

so usually my questions aim to maximize the pros and minimize the cons

gotta eat something some time ( breatharianism ... haven't mastered that quite yet)

so in the meanwhile

i like to explore....

I do understand.... but.....how about belladonna?

certainly there are pros and cons, but it might be good to maximize the pros and minimize the cons. promoting the alleged benefits of phytic acid while likely causing mineral losses is not a good recommendation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2014 11:32PM by fresh.

fresh

<<I do understand.... but.....how about belladonna?

certainly there are pros and cons, but it might be good to maximize the pros and minimize the cons. promoting the alleged benefits of phytic acid while likely causing mineral losses is not a good recommendation.>>

that is what my main intention was
maximize benefits and minimize adverse effects
hence, if you have any suggestions concerning how to do that for nuts
that would be appreciated

and what of belladonna?
it has a myriad of applications
and it could also kill you

welcome to the Plant Kingdom

ms basil,

we think differently so my suggestions would probably not apply to you.

i try to eat fresh (which does not mean freshly picked as TSM repeatedly thought I meant is as, although freshly picked of course is best) - it means not dried.
nuts/seeds are dried.

and raw
and whole
and tasty
and not for nutrients for the most part.

so nuts/seeds don't qualify for me, although i eat quite a few in strawberries, figs, etc.

so, not being concerned about mitigating the phytic acid, I have not researched it - I simply don't eat them for reasons above.

hope you've gotten your answer from others here.

IMO. Nuts and seeds are great. Just don't eat too many - and the beauty of it is that we don't have to eat too many, because they are very nutrient-dense.

Studies are through the roof that people live longer who eat seeds and nuts regularly - no matter what else is in their diet. I'm not aware of any studies - none, zero, zilch - (peer-reviewed) that dispute those findings.

Here's a nice nutty review of existing studies (as of 2010), including a chart of outcomes for disease conditions plus references:


[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

(Personally, I think they're fine just how they are - don't have to do a thing to change them, unless a person wants to of course).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 08:13AM by suncloud.

Here's an interesting abstract on phytic acid:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Note the high phosphorus content of phytic acid, as described in the abstract. Phosphorus is the P in ATP, which is the main active source of energy storage in the human body.

Thanks for bringing up this subject La V. I get frustrated when so many recipes (by 'experts' lol) include nuts & seeds, with no mention of correct processing. Especially CHIA seeds! They're chucked in everything these days and looked on as an amazing superfood - I guess a few every now and then wouldn't be so bad, but what if people are getting carried away by all the touted benefits and relying on them as a staple, without realising the potential harm?

'Raw' doesn't necessarily mean unprocessed; it can also mean finding alternative non-heating ways of making food palatable - eg, as you say, soaking/sprouting/fermenting.

As for nuts, you could try making nut cheese - I haven't bothered cos the process seems a little complicated for me (I might be wrong - maybe I should try it). I usually soak them, then blend them, and add a little kefir or kombucha and leave it a day or 2, then add some spices to make a kind of a yoghurt/dressing to add to salads. I find that's the simplest & quickest way, although it probably doesn't win any gourmet prizes

And thanks Suncloud for sharing that link, if anyone else has any good articles about phytates I'd love to see them, thanks



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lisa m, by processing you mean soaking I assume?

fresh

<<ms basil,

we think differently so my suggestions would probably not apply to you.>>

indubitably so


<<i try to eat fresh (which does not mean freshly picked as TSM repeatedly thought I meant is as, although freshly picked of course is best) - it means not dried.
nuts/seeds are dried.

and raw
and whole
and tasty
and not for nutrients for the most part.>>


understood



<<so nuts/seeds don't qualify for me, although i eat quite a few in strawberries, figs, etc.

so, not being concerned about mitigating the phytic acid, I have not researched it - I simply don't eat them for reasons above.>>

makes sense

<<hope you've gotten your answer from others here.>>

thank you

have gotten good responses so far... hope to get more

suncloud

thanks for the info

i will be reading both of the articles that you posted
looking forward to them!


hope you are enjoying your summer!

Loads of ways to process raw food Gosia Soaking, sprouting, fermenting, juicing, blending, dehydrating, sun-drying, etc etc



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lisa m

<<As for nuts, you could try making nut cheese - I haven't bothered cos the process seems a little complicated for me (I might be wrong - maybe I should try it). I usually soak them, then blend them, and add a little kefir or kombucha and leave it a day or 2, then add some spices to make a kind of a yoghurt/dressing to add to salads. I find that's the simplest & quickest way, although it probably doesn't win any gourmet prizes winking smiley>>

interesting lisa

Also, what kind of kombucha do you use ( do you make it)

do you add non dairy kefir as well? i mean kefir that hasn't been mixed with other stuff like goats milk etc.

specific type of kefir... product i can get?
i always see kefir at the store mixed with goats milk or yogurt or something like that but i don't do any animal products
how would i get kefir minus the dairy?



Also,

can you tell me the adverse effects of chia?

i looked that up a couple of times before
but could not much of anything

where am i not looking?

all i could find was that it expands in the stomach hence not a good idea to eat too much of them all at once...

<< Soaking, sprouting, fermenting, juicing, blending, dehydrating, sun-drying, etc etc>>
Well, you must be having loads of fun.

La V - I make my own kombucha, so I flavour it how I like it. Here's a blog I wrote with the recipe to my favourite kind, I make it from dandelion root so it's caffeine free (tastes a bit like coca cola!):

[www.cherrytherapies.com]

I also make water kefir too, just get the water kefir grains and flavour it with coconut water or sugar water, it's super easy, probably the easiest way to have fermented food in your diet actually.

re chia, it is a seed and so just like other seeds they contain phytates which can affect the absorption of other nutrients. So sprouting and fermenting are great ways to reduce that. I'm sure Sproutarian guy has talked about this in the past. And of course, sprouting any seeds improve their nutrient profile anyway, so why not sprout them. I guess people don't bother because they're mucilaginous, but they do sprout really easily if you just put them on a flat surface and add a bit of water. Or grow microgreens from them on soil.

Gosia - haha, yes I am



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lisa m

wow... you make your own kombucha and kefir?

right on... will definitely check out your instructions

thanks for the heads up on chia

they haven't been that big of an item in my diet ( yeah yeah, i know.. omega 3's and all that... but i don't see the omegas in chias as being very good at converting to DHA/EPA so i'm still mulling over that one... researching other options.

thanks for the heads up though
so... how much of the phytic acid will sprouting remove from chia?
any guesses/numbers/articles?

also, is that the only contention with chia... the phytic acid?

anything else?

thanks so much for the information you have given me with the ferments
it is solid gold

I haven't seen any specific numbers with regards to the chia / phytic acid. I'd love to see more research on it myself, there's a lot of conflicting info out there. I've even contacted some of the 'raw gurus' about it when I see their recipes with plain un-soaked chia seeds, but I haven't got a reply :/ So I just like to play it safe and sprout them. At least that way you're maximising the nutrition. I think Sproutarian Guy would know more about it.



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thank you lisa

This is what I like about this place. Different people doing different things, always an opportunity to learn something. >$-_-$<

Hi LaV

Thank you so much! I hope you are enjoying your summer also!

[www.lowoxalate.info]
Nuts are also high oxalate, something I've been recently reading about. They produce oxalic acid, which helps them rid scavengers from eating the plant. There are various kinds that turn into crystals and objects that harm the eater. Coconuts are low oxalate though, n more nutritional value than other nuts.
Plus fresher. As someone said above, nuts are dried.

Soaking and sprouting for few days should reduce the oxalate in nuts.
The problem is that most nuts sold are not raw.

Quote

Here's an interesting abstract on phytic acid:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Note the high phosphorus content of phytic acid, as described in the abstract. Phosphorus is the P in ATP, which is the main active source of energy storage in the human body.

Suncloud, phytic acid is very high in phosphorous, however the phosphorous is bound up very tightly and near-impossible for us to utilize. Plants with phytic acid have the majority of their phosphorous in an unusable form, and furthermore it will bind with other nutrients like iron, zinc and calcium and deplete us of those too. By sprouting or fermenting these foods the phytate is broken down and and the majority of the phosphorous becomes available to us again, as well as an increase in the bioavailability of many other minerals.

Here is a quick quote stating that animals with only one stomach (which includes us) are essentially unable to utilize phosphorous that is in the form of phytates:

Quote

Many scientists currently use the rule that monogastric animals metabolize only one-third of the phosphorus in plant materials. This assumption is based on the report by the Committee on Animal Nutrition, National Academy of Sciences-National Research Council (NAS-NRC) (1960) that approximately 30% of the phosphorus in plant materials is non-phytate and can be considered to be utilized by animals.

[ps.oxfordjournals.org]

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's an interesting abstract on phytic acid:
>
>
>
> Note the high phosphorus content of phytic acid,
> as described in the abstract. Phosphorus is the P
> in ATP, which is the main active source of energy
> storage in the human body.
>
> Suncloud, phytic acid is very high in phosphorous,
> however the phosphorous is bound up very tightly
> and near-impossible for us to utilize. Plants with
> phytic acid have the majority of their phosphorous
> in an unusable form, and furthermore it will bind
> with other nutrients like iron, zinc and calcium
> and deplete us of those too. By sprouting or
> fermenting these foods the phytate is broken down
> and and the majority of the phosphorous becomes
> available to us again, as well as an increase in
> the bioavailability of many other minerals.
>
> Here is a quick quote stating that animals with
> only one stomach (which includes us) are
> essentially unable to utilize phosphorous that is
> in the form of phytates:
>
>
> Many scientists currently use the rule that
> monogastric animals metabolize only one-third of
> the phosphorus in plant materials. This assumption
> is based on the report by the Committee on Animal
> Nutrition, National Academy of Sciences-National
> Research Council (NAS-NRC) (1960) that
> approximately 30% of the phosphorus in plant
> materials is non-phytate and can be considered to
> be utilized by animals.
> [ps.oxfordjournals.org]
> ract

Too bad for nut and seed soakers and sprouters that most seeds and nuts taste like shite once they have been soaked and sprouted. The good news is that you don't have to destroy the taste of your seeds and nuts anymore if you have healthy gut flora, or terrain as some call it, as our gut bacteria works with us to deliver the goods because THEY can break down phytates for us and release the bound phosphorus, etc. which we can then digest.

Not to knock the Oxford Journal but come on, geeze, a lot has been learned since 1966.


Nut and seed soaker I now pronounce you free from the chore of making your wholesome tasty nuts and seeds taste like shite by soaking and sprouting them.
Read, learn, rejoice, and don't forget to say a word of thanks to your symbiotic life partners - your resident gut flora - for setting your taste buds free at last!

[news.ifr.ac.uk]

There really is a ton of modern info on this subject out there. No need to rely on ancient studies or obsolete raw gurus really.

Here is another bit from the 100's of pages of current stuff ...

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2014 04:36PM by SueZ.

I find great results in fermenting sunflower and pumpkin seeds.
There is a solution to every problem.

"Nut and seed soaker I now pronounce you free from the chore of making your wholesome tasty nuts and seeds taste like shite by soaking and sprouting them."

Soaked and/or sprouted nuts & seeds taste fine to me and there's more reasons to soak/sprout other than phytic acid.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Nut and seed soaker I now pronounce you free from
> the chore of making your wholesome tasty nuts and
> seeds taste like shite by soaking and sprouting
> them."
>
> Soaked and/or sprouted nuts & seeds taste fine to
> me and there's more reasons to soak/sprout other
> than phytic acid.

Have you had digestive issues when you have tried to eat unsoaked/unsprouted seeds and nuts?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Nut and seed soaker I now pronounce you free
> from
> > the chore of making your wholesome tasty nuts
> and
> > seeds taste like shite by soaking and sprouting
> > them."
> >
> > Soaked and/or sprouted nuts & seeds taste fine
> to
> > me and there's more reasons to soak/sprout
> other
> > than phytic acid.
>
> Have you had digestive issues when you have tried
> to eat unsoaked/unsprouted seeds and nuts?


Nope