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TCC on b12
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: August 17, 2014 06:18PM

Research has convincingly shown that plants grown in healthy soil that has a good concentration of b12 will readily absorb this nutrient. however plants grown in lifeless soil may be deficient in b12. most of our agriculture takes place on relatively lifeless soil decimated from years of unnatural pesticide herbicide and fertilizer use. so the plants grown in this soil and sold in our supermarket lack b12. in addition we live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soil borne microorganisms that produce b12. at one point in our history we got b12 from vegetables that hadnt been scoured of all soil therefore it is not unreasonable to assume that modern americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough b12. it is estimated that we hold a 3 year store of b12 in our bodies. if you do not eat any animal products for three years or more, you should consider taking a small b12 supp on occasion or go to doctor to get levels checked. likewise if you never get sunshine exposure especially during the winter months you might want to take a vitamin d supp

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: August 17, 2014 07:27PM

it may have nothing to do with the diet but with modern lifestyle. As we are been "domesticated", the skin contact with the environment has been removed (we only touch clothes or socks). In my case I do not take dietary b12 and I get it through the skin. I get a b12 skin patch (continuous very slow release) and it works. They are very economical too and bypass many problems like the two b12 cofactors. I am sure I am getting also b12 from food but why take chances?

this is what I use:

1000mcg-m (also available in 5000 but which I don't use) [www.amazon.com]

you can put it anywhere (source of nerve points, weak areas, etc). I usually put mine on the back for 1.5 days. But the feet should work too.


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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Superjuice ()
Date: August 17, 2014 08:45PM

Panchito, this is synthetic B-12, just so you know.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: August 17, 2014 09:05PM

synthetic?...not quite, only bacteria can make b12 (cyano version). The methil conversion is "synthetic" But if you add salt (sodium chloride) to a salad, then it is a "synthetic" (not natural) salad he?

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms.[47] Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years.[48][49] The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii are more commonly used today.[50]

but once you got cyanocobalamin (from natural bacteria), it is changed to methilcobalamin like this:

Quote

Methylcobalamin can be produced in the laboratory by reducing cyanocobalamin with sodium borohydride in alkaline solution, followed by the addition of methyl iodide.[2]

you can get cyanocobalamin skin patches (made from bacteria) even cheaper than the one I posted above (methil):

[www.amazon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2014 09:10PM by Panchito.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Mislu ()
Date: August 18, 2014 01:04AM

Panchito,
Thats very suspect. I understood the cyano form to be produced in a Lab. Its very cheap, and inferior. Although technically it might be able to supply useable b12 indirectly, although its not in the best form.

Consider the following from the Linus Pauling Institute.

" The form of cobalamin used in most nutritional supplements and fortified foods, cyanocobalamin, is readily converted to 5-deoxyadenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin in the body."

[lpi.oregonstate.edu]

Why is the end products 5-deoxyadenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin ? If cyanocobalamin was so great, why isn't the body converting it to that form? It seems much easier to supplement with the two end products to begin with.

Another source claims that cyanocobalamin is NOT found in nature, but only in the lab.

"Cyanocobalamin is the most commonly supplemented form of vitamin B12, but you might be surprised to discover that this form of vitamin B12 does not actually occur in plants or animal tissues. In other words, outside of the chemically synthesized cyanocobalamin that you encounter as B12 in most vitamin supplements, you would be extremely hard pressed to find this compound in nature (in fact you would not be able to find it)."

[blog.letstalkhealth.com]

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: coconutcream ()
Date: August 18, 2014 01:12AM

They give free samples out at the coop. I pick up some sometime, the sublingual ones. I do not feel anything. I just take it just in case.


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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: August 18, 2014 02:36AM

only bacteria is capable of making b12 (cobalamin). Bacteria is a kingdom different from animals or plants. On labs (commercially), they use bacteria to make b12. Thats It is like making beer but using scientific names (cyanocobalamin). Everycell of your body has thousands of bacteria like organllels (with their own replicating DNA) called mitochondria. So you are made of bacteria parts and the body needs bacteria in the GI track to live also. You have more bacteria in your body than cells.

b12 is supposed to give you a small boost of energy (b vitamin) specially if you haven't had any in a while. But you may get it through the GI track or through other methods.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Mislu ()
Date: August 19, 2014 01:17AM

Panchito,
Bacteria produce hydroxocobalamin. The cyano form of B12 is modified. Its like saying that regular Skippy peanut butter is natural because there are real peanuts in the spread, failing to mention that sugar and hydrogenated oils are added. Or Calling shortening natural because they started with real soybean oil, which was chemically modified. Sure, the original source of the oil is natural, but the end product is NOT.

It is surprising to me that the best classification for cyanocobalamin is semi-synthetic. Much like shortening could be called semi-synthetic. The bodies processing of cyanocobalamin is problematic, I don't take it, and don't plan on taking my b12 in that form. Especially given that the body has to convert it to another form, and then do something with the cyanide.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: August 19, 2014 02:29AM

oh, there you go smiling smiley

12 patches of hydroxocobalamin (5000 mcg) $17

[www.drdavidspatches.com]

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Mislu ()
Date: August 20, 2014 12:54AM

Thank you panchito. Sounds awsome.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: durianrider ()
Date: August 20, 2014 10:19AM

Some people say the ONLY reason Freelee & myself are so lean is because we do b12 shots once a month or so. I disagree with that statement BUT also agree B12 shots may speed up ones metabolism and are popular amongst power to weight athletes and models.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: lisa m ()
Date: August 20, 2014 11:44AM

I wonder whether fermentation is an alternative way to get B12. Guess it depends what you're fermenting. But I kind of see fermenting food and drinks as something as an antidote to this sanitised world we live in. I like to let those wee souls have a party in my food before I eat it winking smiley



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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: Mislu ()
Date: August 20, 2014 08:55PM

I got my test results back. I am a bit confused, because the clinic says that my B12 blood levels are low. However, looking up info on line, I am well within the acceptable range according to some sources. I am NOT anemic so that is a plus, and my hemoglobin is good. In fact I think the blood cell count and hemoglobin is probably better than many meat eaters. The Doc says my cholestrol profile is good, but it could be a little bit better, especially the HDL. I am not sure how to improve it. But over all I am happy with the results. Light years improvement over some tests I had a number of years ago. The next step might be to go completely raw. I had a year of vegan under my experience. I tried years ago to go raw and vegan,but I think it was too big a leap for me to take at the time all at once. I am however living in a very vegan unfriendly place, especially not raw vegan. But I am convienced that its still possible if I wish to do it.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: August 20, 2014 10:34PM

urinary mma test is needed for b12. blood test for b12 is not accurate.

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Re: TCC on b12
Posted by: durianrider ()
Date: August 21, 2014 01:01AM

TCC you need to provide me with specific numbers. B12 over 800 is ideal and hemoglobin over 15/150 is ideal. Assuming you are male.

What is your best 5k time on the road? How long ago was that?

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